Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
UK Govt To Bail Out Jaguar Land Rover  
User currently offlineT1210s From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 171 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2756 times:

So brown is going to magic up another £1 billion to bail out another failing business ironic through that on the one hand the government is to introduce huge increases on road taxes for luxury cars and increases in fuel tax to stop people buying/driving them then on the other it has to bail them out to save the jobs that they themselves are destroying. Typical!


The term Broadband comes from the two primary uses of high speed internet downloading porn (broads) and MP3s (bands)
33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineConnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2743 times:

Thought Jag - Land Rover had been sold to Tata of India. So is Tata itself in trouble ?


Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineT1210s From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2736 times:

The news is still breaking at the moment but your right Tata do own Jag the govt are going to act as guarantee if Tata default on any loans they get WTF!!! why should our govt be backing up an indian company


The term Broadband comes from the two primary uses of high speed internet downloading porn (broads) and MP3s (bands)
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13208 posts, RR: 77
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2728 times:

Having 1000's on the dole isn't cheap either.
And you can hardly say they are doing much different to anyone else, that noted left wing industrial interventionist George Bush wants a rescue package for the US auto industry.

There will be, perhaps understandably, comparisons with Rover.
But those who ran Rover (into the ground) from 2000-2005 were clearly not competent (aside from securing their own futures).
Going back further, it's often forgotten that when the vast British Leyland was nationalized in 1975, is was already in shit order, not because of it.
(That event has the stronger parallels to the situation in the US today, since in both cases, you were looking at a sudden mass unemployment).

It's often said that the UK has no manufacturing, said so often people think it''s true.
The correct statement is has too little manufacturing , since the UK is 6th in the league table of manufacturing nations.
But, manufacturing exports make up around 50% of our export earnings, the term 'high value' in this area is very true!

Greed, hubris, constant pressure for 'light touch' regulation from the financial industry led to the situation we are all in now.
The only good reason to ever help them was and is to prevent a worse situation as the contagion spreads to the rest of the economy, from my own view, aside from having to do that, I say 'screw them'.
I know where I'd prefer any aid to go.

UK manufacturing is generally very competitive now (what remains has had to be), they have suffered for far too long with a £ that is too high, until recently interest rates that are too high and with a City Of London that is only ever interested in them when it comes to mergers and asset stripping.
What a contrast to how the German financial system views industry.

The situation that manufacturing is in now is no fault of theirs, it's the fault, totally, of the until recently self described Masters Of The Universe , our fake gods of the City.
(Has any of them even apologized yet? Or have they bolted to their tax havens? Which is something else that needs to change too).

The current government, with only a few exceptions, has until recently neglected manufacturing as much as the Tories did.
It was all going to be about 'services', financial services in particular, they were going to secure the future wealth of the UK.
Well look what happened to that.


User currently offlineJoshSixtySeven From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2719 times:



Quoting T1210s (Thread starter):
So brown is going to magic up another £1 billion

Don't worry, "now we've saved the world" I'm pretty sure our comrade can find a billion down the back of his sofa, in his penny jar or he could always ask Mr Barclays.

Just to point out for those that usually take my posts seriously: the above IS dripping with sarcasm.

Josh


User currently offlineT1210s From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2718 times:

So as long as you employ lots of people then your company can get f***ed up but it don't matter because the govt will bail you out, sorry but this isn't a British company anymore if Tata need money they should go the Indian govt Brown is selling this contry down the river and whose going to repay it all, us and our kids working till we drop dead. Woolworths just went bust and layed off 20,000 people why didn't govt help them then?


The term Broadband comes from the two primary uses of high speed internet downloading porn (broads) and MP3s (bands)
User currently offlineRicciPettit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2715 times:

Maybe this explains why my Land Rover Freelander is a pile of cr@p. Cutting costs on production?

Only had it since September and it's currently out of action, for the second time.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13208 posts, RR: 77
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2694 times:

It's all very well banging on, Daily Mail style, about 'selling down the river' (whatever that means), but I've not actually seen news specific to this as yet.
Though as above, I've no objection in principal if it is the case.

We live in a globalized world, who owns what and where is not as important as many still think, if the owners of this business are being affected badly by the mistakes of the financial industry, then encouraging them to keep their business here is well worth the cost.
We do it all the time, have done for decades, not only encouraging new investments but retaining valuable ones still here.
Dare I mention Airbus?


User currently offlineVC10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1411 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2660 times:



Quoting RicciPettit (Reply 6):
Maybe this explains why my Land Rover Freelander is a pile of cr@p. Cutting costs on production?

I have had my Freelander for over three years now and it is great, only had one fault and that was the part supplied by BMW, which I understand goes wrong on BMW as well

One failure is one too many but the Land Rover dealers were great.

Let us nationalize Land Rover if they want money.

littlevc10


User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2580 times:

Tata and Kingfisher airlines seem to be similar in the sense that they expanded a bit too fast?
I wonder if Tata is forced to maintain the manufacturing in the UK?
German car companies buying car companies outside Germany seldom do any good money, Skoda in Czech republic is a good buy, Rover was a disaster (well the Mini brand was the concilation prize) nor Chrysler. Aston Martin, Rolls-Royce/Bentley, Jaguar and Land-rover/Range rover weren´t any successful either under German reign.


User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2546 times:



Quoting RicciPettit (Reply 6):
Maybe this explains why my Land Rover Freelander is a pile of cr@p. Cutting costs on production?

Yup, Range Rover here, been out of commission twice since July....

Land Rover is rated the worst among ALL of the major automakers for "incidents" requiring some type of service. Beautiful cars with a lot of pedigree, but British Cars tend to be REALLY bad in terms of quality and engineering. They don't look or feel cheap, but something about them doesn't quite work up to specifications NOR the price range at which they are sold.

UAL


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2534 times:



Quoting UAL747 (Reply 10):
Land Rover is rated the worst among ALL of the major automakers for "incidents" requiring some type of service. Beautiful cars with a lot of pedigree, but British Cars tend to be REALLY bad in terms of quality and engineering. They don't look or feel cheap, but something about them doesn't quite work up to specifications NOR the price range at which they are sold.

The problem is that Land Rover went too far away from their roots. Instead of building low maintenance, rugged trucks with excellent off road capability for builders, farmers, military and rescue services, they went into the SUV market. The only car still fitting the old pattern is the Defender (and even this one has been modified with hard to maintain electronic engines due to EU pollution laws). The Defender will not be sold or imported into the EU from 2010 because exactly the prpoerties, which make it so usefull for commercial owners (solid ladder frame and modular body, which can easily be converted for any type of use, high road clearance) make it fail the more stringent pedestrian protection and passive accident protection requirements demanded by the EU.
The newer cars (the Range Rover was always aimed at a wellpaying clientele, though the newer models lost a lot of their off road performance in favour of comfort on the road) have been pussyfied almost beyond recognition.

The only vehicle build by LR which fits the original specs for utility and easy maintenance is the Rest Of the World (ROW) version of the Defender with the 300TDi diesel engine which is primarely intended for the third world market, but this one has already been banned from import or new sale by the EU due to it's failure to meet the newest pollution specs.
The newer diesel engines, starting with the TD5 (five cylinder engine with pump-injection nozzle combinations and FADEC control) as well as the TD4 (four cylinder diesel engine designed by Ford for their Transit vans, with common rail technology, also FADEC controlled) are almost impossible to be repaired in the field.

Jan


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39887 posts, RR: 74
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2521 times:

Countdown to WunalaYann hijacking the thread and turning it into "the world is coming to an end" flamefest - 10, 9, 8,...
 wave 


Since I am not a British taxpayer, I really have no say about this. If the British government wants to bailout a company in their own country, that is their right.

Quoting T1210s (Thread starter):
ironic through that on the one hand the government is to introduce huge increases on road taxes for luxury cars and increases in fuel tax to stop people buying/driving them

That sounds really stupid to punish those that already own and paid off these vehicles. The bad economy takes care of any new purchases of nice expensive vehicles.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4022 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 2509 times:



Quoting Alessandro (Reply 9):
Aston Martin, Rolls-Royce/Bentley, Jaguar and Land-rover/Range rover weren´t any successful either under German reign.

Actually, Aston Martin and Jaguar were bought by Ford, not the Germans. And Bentley has been a success - it totally revamped its product range and sells many more cars today than it did previously (granted half of them are just to appear on hip hop video-clips and MTV's Cribs, but still...).



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13208 posts, RR: 77
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2484 times:

UAL747, you do know that a large proportion of all the Land Rovers built since the mid 1950's (though production started in 1948), said to be as much as 75%, are still in operation today?
Usually out in various boondocks in all parts of the world, the places that the likes of J.D. Power never go, indeed, probably fear to tread!

Granted these are mostly the more basic models, but it's a hell of an achievement.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2439 times:



Quoting GDB (Reply 14):
UAL747, you do know that a large proportion of all the Land Rovers built since the mid 1950's (though production started in 1948), said to be as much as 75%, are still in operation today?
Usually out in various boondocks in all parts of the world, the places that the likes of J.D. Power never go, indeed, probably fear to tread!

Granted these are mostly the more basic models, but it's a hell of an achievement.

Yes, but as I've stated in my previous post, these are exactly the models LR turned away from. Starting from the 1990s, the went into the urban yuppy SUV market with lots of gadgets instead of concentrating on easy to maintain, rugged off road vehicles, which can be adapted to multiple roles and functions.
E.g. with the introduction of the Defender following the Series III, theygot rid of the standard power take off shaft on the distribution gearbox.

I've heard builders and farmers complain that they have to keep running their old Land rovers (Series and Defendders), Toyota Landcruisers and Nissan patrols forever, since no company builds a replacement suited for their needs. All manufacturers today build primarely comfort SUVs tailored for an urban audience, where ruggedness and off road performance has been traded off for increased comfort on the road.

Jan


User currently offlineVC10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1411 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2404 times:

I was listening to a radio program yesterday on this subject, and it would seem that Land Rover/Jaguar group were trading at quite a good profit. However when Ford sold them to Tata earlier this year Ford took the profits with them leaving Land Rover /Jaguar with no fall back capital. Before they could build a capital lump sum they were like other companies hit by the financial crunch with nothing to fall back on.

It also pointed out that it is all the car companies in the UK that are asking for Financial aid from the government ,but like always in this country the media tries to suggest it is only British named industry that is a problem

http://uk.reuters.com/article/motoringSummary/idUKGRI42924220080114

http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=228800

littlevc10


User currently offlineRunway777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2403 times:

i think they have every right to bail out jag, jags are amazing, therefore get a chance to rebuild.
ha ha ha


User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 41
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2376 times:



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 13):
Quoting Alessandro (Reply 9):
Aston Martin, Rolls-Royce/Bentley, Jaguar and Land-rover/Range rover weren´t any successful either under German reign.

Actually, Aston Martin and Jaguar were bought by Ford, not the Germans.

I'd also be tempted to point out that Rover were actually doing fairly well before BMW did what they did to them. There are still people trying to figure out just what BMW were trying to do.

Quoting Runway777 (Reply 17):
jags are amazing

I'm a bit of a fan, too.  Smile


User currently offlineVC10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1411 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2366 times:



Quoting David L (Reply 18):
I'd also be tempted to point out that Rover were actually doing fairly well before BMW did what they did to them. There are still people trying to figure out just what BMW were trying to do.

I cound not agree more, and it seemed at the time that Rover and Honda were getting along really great . I remember that Honda were quite annoyed at the BMW take over, as apparently they were not even given the chance to buy Rover and only found out about the sale to BMW after the deal was done.

I do believe that a Honda /Rover merger would have ended up with a good company as long as some one shot the Top Gear crowd, who probably did more harm to British motor manufacturing than any bolshy unions did

Why did BMW buy it, well for the 4 wheel drive and front wheel drive knowledge, but with
that said I do believe they hoped Rover would succeed and they tried hard, but for whatever reason it failed

littlevc10


User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 41
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2337 times:



Quoting VC10 (Reply 19):
Why did BMW buy it, well for the 4 wheel drive and front wheel drive knowledge,

Of course but who knows what they were thinking with the 75? Basically a cracking car, it's hard to believe they wanted it to sell once they'd festooned it with 1970's BL paint schemes and awful antique dials.

Quoting VC10 (Reply 19):
as long as some one shot the Top Gear crowd, who probably did more harm to British motor manufacturing than any bolshy unions did

The general routine seems to have been to praise the car highly when it was released then spend the next few years slagging it off (as they also did with the S-type Jaguar). Perhaps BMW ran Top Gear too?  duck 


User currently offline767Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2281 times:

So I guess government-paid healthcare won't save a company after all.

User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 41
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2259 times:



Quoting 767Lover (Reply 21):
So I guess government-paid healthcare won't save a company after all

 confused  It might reduce the chances of a strike but who said it will save a company?


User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2258 times:



Quoting Runway777 (Reply 17):
jags are amazing

They WERE considered amazing from the 1980's-early 1990's until Ford bought them and they started to look like Ford Tauruses cars and some like Hyundais. The new XK is nice as well as the XF. The rest of the models suck though.

UAL


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13208 posts, RR: 77
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2241 times:



Quoting 767Lover (Reply 21):
So I guess government-paid healthcare won't save a company after all.

Good try, but guess what, I cannot think of ANY major auto companies in Europe that are in anything like as deep shit as two of the three major US ones are.

Which brings me to the issue cited over there, the whole 'in the states with cheaper overheads - including much less employee benefits, are better places to build cars'.
Maybe, but how to explain the long term huge success of the German industry then?
NOT a cheap place to do business, far from it.
Unionised too.
What's wrong with this picture?

Maybe they just make much better products, have managers who have a clue, with financial institutions interested in long term investment, not just trying to make a quick billion or so trading on nothing real, aside from when they are asset stripping.
Basically a bunch of overblown Vegas gamblers with a bunch of crooks firmly embedded within.
(These are problems for the UK too).


25 Superfly : That was just a cheap-shot against national health-care on her part.
26 GDB : Well according to press reports, this whole story might not be all it seems. The government seem not to be suggesting a bail out, at least right now.
27 Alessandro : It´s called Lada Niva.
28 David L : That's the X-type and it's no surprise since it shares a lot with the Mondeo. There's no way the XJ or S-type look anything like Tauruses or Hyundai.
29 Egmcman : I agree but to blame TG is far fetched as Clarkson has said on many occasions the cars they like the most don't translate into the top sellers. There
30 MD11Engineer : Nope. The Lada Niva is first much smaller than a Land Rover Defender (which can easily carry one ton of load) and it has a self supporting body, not
31 Bongodog1964 : It appears that Tata have flown too close to the sun and scorched their wings; their habit of buying up everything in sight over the past few years ha
32 Post contains links Ferengi80 : You know the thing that really pisses me off with this is that Tata have announced they are to be the Sponsors of the Ferrari Formula One team for 200
33 GDB : Indeed Frengi80, I suspect that's why the Govt. has sounded lukewarm on any bail out. The idea grew I think, from statements about protecting in this
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Bush Wants To Bail Out Freddie MAC, Fannie Mae posted Sun Jul 13 2008 15:44:34 by Falcon84
Ford To Sell Jaguar And Land Rover posted Tue Jun 12 2007 11:06:59 by Cornish
$700 Billion Bail Out Plan posted Mon Sep 29 2008 06:31:41 by Elite
I Want To Get Out On My Own But I Am Trapped. posted Sat Aug 30 2008 05:34:22 by KLM672
Is There A Way To Find Out Where An IP Is? posted Sun Feb 10 2008 15:57:35 by A380US
Berkeley Votes To Kick Out Marines posted Fri Feb 1 2008 11:40:52 by Sprout5199
Feel A Need To Be Out On Saturday Night? posted Wed Jan 9 2008 08:27:32 by PacNWJet
US State Department To Phase Out Blackwater? posted Thu Oct 11 2007 09:49:00 by Hkg82
Islanders To Buy Out Yashin For $17.63 Million posted Wed Jun 6 2007 14:44:09 by JFK69
Apple Delays Leopard To Bring Out IPhone posted Fri Apr 13 2007 10:48:02 by AeroWesty