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Obama's A-List Inaugural Invite.  
User currently offlinePSA727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 974 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2431 times:

Well it looks like President-elect Obama has invited the pastor Rick Warren to give the invocation at his swearing-in ceremony. Y'all know Rick? Maybe most of you remember him as the host of the Presidential Forum at Saddleback College this past summer with McCain and Obama. Some of you might also know him as a vocal supporter of Prop 8...Oops...I mean Prop H8...in California. Now this is change we all can believe in. ENJOY!


fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2427 times:

While I'm a big supporter of Obama, I don't know what he is really going to do for gay rights if anything, and I will be very disappointed if he doesn't do anything about them. The pick for Warren was not really the smartest thing I don't think.

I got in this argument the other day with a black friend where I compared the the black civil rights movement to the gay civil rights movement. While I know gays have not had to endure slavery and government imposed segregation, I meant they were very similar in the fact that they are both about the limitation of civil rights on a minority group, that is all I meant. I said it was the civil rights movement of the 21st century, at which she took great offense.

What I find funny, is that somewhere around 88% percent of the black population who voted on Prop 8, voted for it. It's ironic and rather disappointing that so many black americans would do that when they were in a similar situation not so long ago.

Therefore, because Obama has such a huge black following, I'm wondering if he will do anything about gay rights because of that, or if this is just "fluff" talking.

My black friend said that many black families are extremely homophobic, which I don't know if it's true or not, but she says it's due to the church. I'm not sure, but it's disheartening.

Does anyone know any numbers on the hispanic population?

UAL


User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2398 times:

I dont understand why it was not Rev Wright. PE Obama said that the Rev. had gotten a bad rap and was essentially swift boated by the GOP. If that is the case then why did he not honor his "spiritual mentor "close friend and confidant at his inaugural. ?


That said , I can not help but admire his courage on picking Warren . It does not mean that he has to agree with everything Warren believes , but he respects him.



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6676 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2382 times:
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On the other hand, where is the Christian outrage at Warren is going to speak at the inauguration of Obama, who is pro choice, whose middle name is Hussein and who (according to countless emails) is a muslim?


Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40066 posts, RR: 74
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2382 times:



Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
I don't know what he is really going to do for gay rights if anything, and I will be very disappointed if he doesn't do anything about them.

I can guarantee you that Obama will appoint judges that will be in favor of gay rights and THAT's what counts.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinePSA727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 974 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2369 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
I can guarantee you that Obama will appoint judges that will be in favor of gay rights and THAT's what counts.

Really???? I can just see the Senate judicial hearings for that....."now forget about whether
or not you think Roe vs Wade is permanent law, do you think two dudes should be allowed to
marry?" If this becomes Obama's litmus test for Supreme Court nominees, then Bill Clinton's attempt to repeal the ban on gays in the military will look like a day in the park. BTW, the Supreme Court does not make legislation.



fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40066 posts, RR: 74
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2321 times:



Quoting PSA727 (Reply 5):
BTW, the Supreme Court does not make legislation.

Duh, we all know that.
Judges do make decisions that effect us all and can strike down legislation.

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 5):
If this becomes Obama's litmus test for Supreme Court nominees,

Never said Obama would make gay rights a litmus test but I do trust him to appoint intelligent liberal minded judges that would be sympathetic to gay rights along with other liberal issues.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2273 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Never said Obama would make gay rights a litmus test but I do trust him to appoint intelligent liberal minded judges that would be sympathetic to gay rights along with other liberal issues.

The only thing they should be sympathetic to is the Constitution.

To the victor go the spoils. Whomever he wants to invite to his party is his business.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25692 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2245 times:
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Quoting DXing (Reply 7):
To the victor go the spoils. Whomever he wants to invite to his party is his business.

Absolutely true. There is the old aphorism, of course - dance with the one who brung yer.

So it remains a hard kick in the nuts to many gay people and it is vomit-making to hear Mr Warren justify his homophobia by saying that he knows many gay people and gives 'em donuts.

But - each to their own, always.  Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21864 posts, RR: 55
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2245 times:



Quoting DXing (Reply 7):
The only thing they should be sympathetic to is the Constitution.

And they will be.

If everything were clearly spelled out in the Constitution, there would be no need for judges. Judges are there to interpret the Constitution in cases where the answer isn't specific. There are liberal interpretations, there are conservative interpretations, and there are interpretations in between. But all of them are interpretations of the same Constitution. You and I may not interpret the Constitution in the same way as a judge does, but that doesn't mean they are wrong.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2240 times:

Well Obama is kinda meeting us Gays half way, so to say.

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...s/religion/post/2008/12/60178434/1



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2228 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 9):
Judges are there to interpret the Constitution in cases where the answer isn't specific.

Incorrect. As stated in the Constitution itself those powers and rights not enumerated within the Constitution are reserved to the people and the States.

Quoting Mir (Reply 9):
You and I may not interpret the Constitution in the same way as a judge does, but that doesn't mean they are wrong.

The Constitution is what it is. It is an enumerated set of rules and powers. What is not there should not, and according to the Constitution itself cannot be interpreted.


User currently offlineCharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1331 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2220 times:



Quoting PSA727 (Thread starter):
Some of you might also know him as a vocal supporter of Prop 8...Oops...I mean Prop H8...in California. Now this is change we all can believe in. ENJOY!

For me, meaningful change would have been NOT having an invocation at all. This is a government activity, not a religious one. Religion does not belong in the workplace, and certainly not in the highest office of government. If Obama wants to pray for his Presidency he can do so at his own time.

As for gay rights I said it from the beginning that I don't expect much from Obama (in fact he made it very clear that he was against gay marriage during the campaign), though I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.


User currently offline767Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2212 times:



Quoting Charles79 (Reply 12):
As for gay rights I said it from the beginning that I don't expect much from Obama (in fact he made it very clear that he was against gay marriage during the campaign), though I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.

I'm not sure some of your brethren heard that message. There are many who believe Obama will be supportive of gay marriage. (Heck, there are even a couple on this forum who have said Obama is not religious. They must have been thinking of the other Obama.  Smile

At any rate, Obama's choice is kind of like a big F-You to the gay community. It was a stupid move on his part, not only politically but socially as well, and I just hope his judgment in the future isn't so impaired.


User currently offline767Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2205 times:



Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
While I'm a big supporter of Obama, I don't know what he is really going to do for gay rights if anything,

Not to pick on you, but you bring up an interesting point. Seeing as being gay is a big part of who you are and how you live your life, it seems to me that issues such as gay marriage (and hate crimes, etc) would be a tremendously important issue for gay voters -- yet gays seem to throw support behind any Democratic candidate regardless of the candidate's stance on gay issues. Why don't gays hold candidates' feet to the fire more often?

Clinton's Don't Ask Don't Tell? Please.
Obama's selection of Warren for the biggest inauguration ever, one that is supposed to symbolize change? Plu-eeze.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21864 posts, RR: 55
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2204 times:



Quoting DXing (Reply 11):
As stated in the Constitution itself those powers and rights not enumerated within the Constitution are reserved to the people and the States.

Never said that wasn't the case.  Yeah sure

Quoting DXing (Reply 11):
What is not there should not, and according to the Constitution itself cannot be interpreted.

It is possible to have questions about whether the Consitution applies in a certain case or not, which is by definition interpreting the Constitution.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offline767Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2200 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
I can guarantee you that Obama will appoint judges that will be in favor of gay rights and THAT's what counts.

That's really not going to tip the scale any further left. The judges most likely to be retiring are the more liberal of the bunch, the conservative ones are younger and will be around for several more years. He would probably be appointing 3 in his term, so all he would be doing is pretty much replacing the "liberal representation" that's already there.

In other words, expect status quo as far as the Supreme Court.


User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6676 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2119 times:
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Quoting 767Lover (Reply 14):
Democratic candidate regardless of the candidate's stance on gay issues. Why don't gays hold candidates' feet to the fire more often?

Easy. While democrats are probably not moving as fast as we want to, they are at least moving forward along with the gay cause. Republicans want to move backwards.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 14):
Clinton's Don't Ask Don't Tell? Please.

That was a product of the times. Times now have changed, and the policy must change.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2117 times:



Quoting Charles79 (Reply 12):
Religion does not belong in the workplace,

Denying freedom of expression? Oh my!  wink 

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 12):
If Obama wants to pray for his Presidency he can do so at his own time.

At what point does a President really have his own time? JK But in reality, both houses are opened with a prayer, that religion has flowed through the countries history is beyond question. Whether you agree or not, you always have the right to not listen to that part. Again, to the victor go the spoils. It's his party he gets to choose what to do.

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
It is possible to have questions about whether the Consitution applies in a certain case or not, which is by definition interpreting the Constitution.

And if the answer is not in black and white in the Constitution then the Constitution does not apply. Part of the ongoing problem with the Supreme Court is the fact that the Justices have a tendency to ignore the provision about enumerated rights. That's how we end up with bad law that is next to impossible to get changed.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 16):
In other words, expect status quo as far as the Supreme Court.

Correct. Although towards the end of a second term that could change.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2095 times:



Quoting 767Lover (Reply 14):
Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
While I'm a big supporter of Obama, I don't know what he is really going to do for gay rights if anything,

Not to pick on you, but you bring up an interesting point. Seeing as being gay is a big part of who you are and how you live your life, it seems to me that issues such as gay marriage (and hate crimes, etc) would be a tremendously important issue for gay voters -- yet gays seem to throw support behind any Democratic candidate regardless of the candidate's stance on gay issues. Why don't gays hold candidates' feet to the fire more often?

Clinton's Don't Ask Don't Tell? Please.
Obama's selection of Warren for the biggest inauguration ever, one that is supposed to symbolize change? Plu-eeze.

Well I can not speak for UAL747 though myself being a gay man that supported Obama I went with what I believed was the lesser of the two evils. It should be interesting to see how this plays out.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6676 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2094 times:
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]

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 19):
Well I can not speak for UAL747 though myself being a gay man that supported Obama I went with what I believed was the lesser of the two evils.

I agree with you. Obama may be 60% of what we want as a gay community, but the other choice was 5%.

Ill take 60%.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6924 posts, RR: 34
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2040 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 2):
I dont understand why it was not Rev Wright.

Yeah, a reactionary racist America-hating, race-baiting incendiary prick to lead a prayer for the inaugural is a great idea.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 20):
I agree with you. Obama may be 60% of what we want as a gay community, but the other choice was 5%.

You are aware of what Obama’s position is, correct? He has stated he was against gay marriage. How is that 60%?


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2032 times:



Quoting 767Lover (Reply 16):
In other words, expect status quo as far as the Supreme Court.

Yes, but after the last eight years, having someone in place that will maintain 'status quo', vs. someone who would help the bench tilt sharply to the right is important (if you're a social liberal anyway, a disappointment if you're conservative). However, the gay community should be very clear about something, PE Obama is not our friend. Because he is socially liberal, our goals and his will be far more aligned than they were under Bush, but he's clearly signaled that he's in opposition to the gay community on several key issues, the biggest being gay marriage. As far as actual support, I think maintaining the status quo is about the best we can expect.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25692 posts, RR: 85
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2019 times:
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Quoting Slider (Reply 21):
You are aware of what Obama’s position is, correct? He has stated he was against gay marriage. How is that 60%?

It isn;t - hopefully -- just about gay marriage. Other things, like DADT, fit in there, too.

At least, I hope it isn't just about gay marriage. I'll fight the hypocrisy of those who are against it, but it couldn't be less interesting to this gay man.

I have no desire to embrace, or be embraced by, a heterosexual/religious institution that was designed primarily to insure primogeniture, inheritance rights and dominance over women.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40066 posts, RR: 74
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2009 times:



Quoting 767Lover (Reply 16):
That's really not going to tip the scale any further left. The judges most likely to be retiring are the more liberal of the bunch, the conservative ones are younger and will be around for several more years. He would probably be appointing 3 in his term, so all he would be doing is pretty much replacing the "liberal representation" that's already there.

In other words, expect status quo as far as the Supreme Court.

Everyone knows that.



Bring back the Concorde
25 767Lover : Then why did you imply earlier that Obama will install liberal judges thereby making gay marriage a reality? If everyone (including you) knows the SC
26 UAL747 : I think the reason why gays supported Obama as stated above is that the conservatives, if in power, tend to push for less and less equality for gays.
27 Slider : Haha! Yes, off target, there, totally. Maybe you can explain where that was specifically spelled out dogmatically in the Bible. Maybe the "church" ca
28 UAL747 : Well, also remember that many of us grew up in strong Christian backgrounds only to be shunned by most of our churches, which is also an issue. I'm no
29 Mariner : If Adam and Eve were created for progenitive purposes and had two sons - girls are not mentioned - then who was Cain's wife? If Genesis 2/24 means on
30 Searpqx : What makes you think he's getting a pass? Within the gay community the is the number one political topic, and its seen for exactly what it is, a huge
31 Mt99 : You must really stop looking at the world in terms of absolutes.
32 Superfly : You totally missed my point. I was simply pointing out that Obama is not homophobic. His selection of this Rick Warren guy will only last a few minut
33 Tommy767 : Not to stereotype but in CA the majority of asians, blacks, and latinos voted for prop 8. Keep in mind that a ton of Catholics are also in Los Angele
34 Superfly : Just because one supports a given candidate doesn't mean that they support that candidae on every issue. Just like yourself who opposed prop 8 but al
35 Flybyguy : I think all this rigormorole about Warren is nonsense. I really do appreciate what Obama has been doing over the past month. Everything he's done has
36 767Lover : That's just it...I don't. Anyway, my original post was wondering why any Democratic candidate seems to gain the support of gays regardless of his or
37 Bok269 : I see Obama's selection of Warren as nothing more than an attempt to include the more conservative end of the political spectrum in the festivities an
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