Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Iraq Becoming Independent Again  
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2947 times:

The "International Green Zone" has been handed over by the USA to the Republic of Iraq. Iraqi Airways getting allied to AirFrance-KLM now. British and Australian troops to get out in July or August 2009.
-
Looks as if Iraq is becoming independent again.

82 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2906 times:



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Thread starter):
Looks as if Iraq is becoming independent again.

And then? Civil war Sunni vs. Shia?? Kuridsh Independence and a Turkish invasion? As much as the US troops are a problem and burden, they are the ones preventing open civil war. All the killings in the past years are just a pretaste to what we could see once the US troops leave.

I would say the country is headed for being split up. However, who will get Baghdad, which is half Sunni and half Shia??

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Thread starter):
Iraqi Airways getting allied to AirFrance-KLM now

Hahaha, what an irony. Old Europe at its best. But to be honest, what could Iraqi Airways learn from an US carrier??


User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2894 times:



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Thread starter):
Looks as if Iraq is becoming independent again.

OMG it's still a blood bath as I was told a week or so ago. Those AQ types are just laying low setting off a bomb here or there to make things look interesting. You just wait and see!!! That country will be in turmoil till long after we are gone!!!


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8827 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2862 times:



Quoting Thorben (Reply 1):
Hahaha, what an irony. Old Europe at its best. But to be honest, what could Iraqi Airways learn from an US carrier??

Oh, I don't know. Southwest Airlines would have made an interesting partnership - the only airline to consistantly make money over the past 30 years. Iraqi Airways could be an excellent low-cost airline throughout that part of the world.

 Wink



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16858 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2825 times:

The status of Forces agreement between Iraq and the US that was recently approved by the Iraqi Parliament calls for the with drawl of US forces from Iraqi cities this year, this has already begun in places like Falujah. Falujah was the scene of some of the fiercest and bloodiest battles of the US occupation, now it's the poster of US and Iraqi cooperation. The Sunnis of Anbar Provence are now the US's biggest allies in Iraq, and US Marines are now leaving the city of Fulujah which is now one of the safest areas of Iraq. Camp Fulujah once home to 15,000 Marines is being dismantled, and the Marines are leaving.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/12/30/africa/30falluja.php

What's happening in Fulujah is happening in Cities all across Iraq, with violence down and the Iraqi security forces now strong enough to conduct operations on their own US forces are pulling out of the Cities and onto fewer but larger bases. Eventually almost all US Brigade Combat teams will withdraw from Iraq (by 2011), however there will continue to be a US military presence at 4-5 enduring bases around Iraq. Away from the Cities and population centers these bases will be there for several reasons, train Iraqi forces, fight Al Qaeda, deter Iranian interference within Iraq and to keep the Sunnis, Shia and Kurds from starting another bloody civil war.

The Kurds and even the Sunnis of Anbar have stated they want US bases in their regions to help balance power with the Shia dominated Central Government.

Quote:
What’s more, both the Kurds and Sunni Arabs in western Iraq, where the Al Assad Airbase is located, are likely to facilitate a U.S. military presence for a long time. A Washington representative for the Kurdistan Regional Government, Qubad Talabani, whose father Jalal is president of Iraq, told me last week, “As Kurdish leaders have said in the past, American forces will always be welcome in the Kurdistan region, and we look forward to working with our American friends within the framework of this law to discuss America’s long-term presence in our region.” Far from booting U.S. forces out of the country, he believes that the sofa “gives America the legal cover for expanding their already good relations with Iraqi security institutions.” And the influential Sunni leader Sheik Ahmad Rishawi, head of the Anbar Awakening, told me in an interview in June that he had hoped a long-term treaty with America would be based on “mutual friendship” and compared the future sofa to similar accords struck with postwar Japan and Germany, where American troops are garrisoned to this day.

http://www.ripda.org/?p=242

The occupation is indeed ending, but in everyone's best interests US forces will remain in the background to provide stability. These bases such as Al Assad in the Western desert are far from any Iraqi population centers, so most Iraqis will not even know US forces are there.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineJCS17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2783 times:



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Thread starter):
The "International Green Zone" has been handed over by the USA to the Republic of Iraq. Iraqi Airways getting allied to AirFrance-KLM now. British and Australian troops to get out in July or August 2009.
-
Looks as if Iraq is becoming independent again.

Can you at least admit that the US has done an admirable job in turning the place around?



America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2775 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
Falujah

It is spelled Fallujah.

Sorry to make it an issue, but one of the few things General Petraeus is known to get publicly angry about, is when he hears/sees a soldier mispronounce/misspell an Iraqi city name.

"How can you protect the people - respect the people - if you cannot properly pronounce their city names?"

It only takes 2 seconds on google to get it right.

-------------------

As for the rest of this thread, I would say "I told you so", but it would only fall on deaf ears. People have already made up their minds. Any evidence to the contrary is simply dismissed.

-UH60


User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2773 times:



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 5):
Can you at least admit that the US has done an admirable job in turning the place around?

I too believe that the U.S. military has done a fine job in securing Iraq.

In the aftermath of the proposed U.S. military pull-out from Iraq, I think that the situation within Iraq will rapidly disintegrate into chaos. I believe that corruption is absorbing most of the country's oil resources. Iraq's central government is corrupt from top to bottom — that officials at the top of the pile are making money from things like government contracts. And it's very difficult to tell what is truly corruption and what is political positioning given the void between political parties and religious sects - it's not uncommon for government agency heads to falsely accuse another agency head of "corruption". A U.S. State Department investigation found that Iraqi ministries routinely refuse to cooperate with Iraq's Commission on Public Integrity, and the watchdog agency's investigators are often unable to enter government offices because they don't have enough firepower to defend themselves. And nothing has changed beside the fact that the dictator (and one-time U.S. ally) Saddam Hussein is dead, IMO.

Oh, and we'll have the exact same problem when it comes time to pull U.S. military forces out of Afghanistan from my perspective.



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineFridgmus From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1442 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2737 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 7):

Well said Stasis. I hope it doesn't come down to that, but it probably will.

The Iraqi's are basically a good bunch of folks, but their leaders are just too corrupt. They are more interested in fattening their bank accounts and settling old tribal scores.

While Camp Fallujah has closed, the Marines are still in the Fallujah area, just in case the Iraqi army and Iraqi police need backing up and training.

What I'm wondering is, will the Kurds try to get a separate agreement with us to stay in the Kurdish areas? I know we'll toe the line with the Iraqi govt, but it would just be interesting to see what happens on that front as I honestly believe the Kurds will try to proclaim a sovereign state in the future. The Kurds I know are just regular working folks, but that is all they talk about. I guess we'll see.



The Lockheed Super Constellation, the REAL Queen of the Skies!
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2711 times:



Quoting Thorben (Reply 1):
And then? Civil war Sunni vs. Shia?? Kuridsh Independence and a Turkish invasion? As much as the US troops are a problem and burden, they are the ones preventing open civil war. All the killings in the past years are just a pretaste to what we could see once the US troops leave.

I would say the country is headed for being split up. However, who will get Baghdad, which is half Sunni and half Shia??

And "then" ? Iraq, in spite of reports over recent years, is basically a Secularist country, with many many "mixed" Sunni-Shi'ite families. So that the sectarian thing is not as important as the media has had it for quite a while. Kurdistan ? YES, Iraqi Kurdistan at one time or the other, please ask Mr Talabani about the schedules ! , will become independent. I would suggest to the Turks, in spite of their army-corps right north of the Iraqi border with some 800'000 soldiers (the total of the TK armed forces is around 3 mio men, depending on season) , NOT to get into adventures . Once the US forces finally get out, the test for the al-Maliki government may come. A coup-d'etat is fairly likely, while I at the other hand would not under-estimate Mr al-Maliki. One thing however is sure. As soon as the US-forces are out, the Socialist Party of the Arab Reawakening and the Communist Party will become legal again and take their place in Iraqi politics.
-
No, I do NOT expect a split-up of Iraq in regard to denominational criteria. You of course might say that the central and northwestern Arab parts might unite with Syria and the population-wise heavy South with Iran. But this again is not to happen as the THR leaders are well aware that Southern Iraq in combination with Arabistan/Khuzistan would build such a heavy Arab part of their country, that the Farsi dominance (against Kurds, Beluchis, etc) would become threatened.

Quoting DXing (Reply 2):
Those AQ types are just laying low setting off a bomb here or there to make things look interesting.

-
You are a victim of the media. AQ Iraq LLC is a rather minor company, only noteable due to its extreme brutality, but it in spite of being a franchisee of the "big brother" still is the old gang of Jordanian street muggers it has always been. The violence in question originated from a variety of volatile organisations.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
Southwest Airlines would have made an interesting partnership - the only airline to consistantly make money over the past 30 years. Iraqi Airways could be an excellent low-cost airline throughout that part of the world.

-
The point is that Iraqi Airways is not interested in destinations like Dallas Love Field and Houston Hobby Airport and Las Vegas, but in places like London, Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 5):
Can you at least admit that the US has done an admirable job in turning the place around?

-
has done YES, admirable NO. Because all what was achieved would have been available to the USA and Iraq and the world three or four years ago with a more intelligent political management. And at a fourth of the price for the USA taxpayers.


User currently offlineElite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2796 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2706 times:



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 9):
has done YES, admirable NO. Because all what was achieved would have been available to the USA and Iraq and the world three or four years ago with a more intelligent political management. And at a fourth of the price for the USA taxpayers.

Of course we could look back now and say, "we could have done things differently". But at that moment I feel that the US government - the Bush administration - handled things the best they could. In the future, if the same thing was done, of course it would be unacceptable. But it was the first time, and in the end the mission was accomplished.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2702 times:



Quoting Elite (Reply 10):
handled things the best they could.

-
While I DISagree in regard to "the best" I simply appreciate things getting positive, and if it helps the image of the man I still detest, so be it.


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2699 times:



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 6):
Sorry to make it an issue, but one of the few things General Petraeus is known to get publicly angry about, is when he hears/sees a soldier mispronounce/misspell an Iraqi city name.

Should he not then be saying something to his boss about the way said boss pronounces the name of the country?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq
Audio file in the link.
Or are you telling us he invaded the wrong country? Could be.

Quoting DXing (Reply 2):
Quoting ME AVN FAN (Thread starter):
Looks as if Iraq is becoming independent again.

OMG it's still a blood bath as I was told a week or so ago. Those AQ types are just laying low setting off a bomb here or there to make things look interesting. You just wait and see!!! That country will be in turmoil till long after we are gone!!!

Well I suppose that is intended as irony, but I am not sure a mess such as Iraq is really the spot for irony.

I don't suppose the Sunni chiefs that were blown up yesterday are best pleased.

Even if it were an amazing succes from now, that would still not excuse the incompetence, death and misery on many sides from 2003 till mid 2008 it would merely support a plea in mitigation.


User currently offlineElite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2796 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2697 times:



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 11):
and if it helps the image of the man I still detest, so be it.

If the last visit to Iraq by President Bush is any indication, it is that the image of President Bush in Iraq has not improved.


User currently offlineElite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2796 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2694 times:



Quoting Baroque (Reply 12):

Should he not then be saying something to his boss about the way said boss pronounces the name of the country?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq
Audio file in the link.
Or are you telling us he invaded the wrong country? Could be.

That's unnecessary. President Bush is from Texas; obviously, he will have a southern accent and the words he pronounces will sound different than a person from New York or from elsewhere.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2628 times:



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 5):
Can you at least admit that the US has done an admirable job in turning the place around?

Uh, no. How long have we been there, Jcs? Almost 6 YEARS, and we screwed those people over and over and over, with this bungled invasion, with no real plan for after Baghdad fell, for allowing al Qaeda into the nation, and sowing terror all over the place.

The soldiers have done a great job, but the Administration did a horrendous job in executing the invasion-using too few troops for an occupation, and for gutting the security forces of that nation. So, to say the U.S. had done and admirable job is to deny the reality.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 6):
As for the rest of this thread, I would say "I told you so", but it would only fall on deaf ears. People have already made up their minds. Any evidence to the contrary is simply dismissed.

Maybe you can say "I told you so", my friend. But it's taken far longer than this Administration thought it would, and it was not a sure thing-and still isn't. Iraq has a long way to go. I hope they make it.

As for evidence to the contrary being dismissed, read what JCS wrote, and the total denial of the reality of Iraq over the last 6 years. The evidence is that the Bush Adminstration screwed up, and to deny that is to deny reality.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2625 times:



Quoting DXing (Reply 2):
That country will be in turmoil till long after we are gone!!!

Don't worry Barack Obama is going to go over there and talk to everyone and resolve their differences.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2623 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 16):
Don't worry Barack Obama is going to go over there and talk to everyone and resolve their differences.

Imagine that-a President that is willing to TALK to others! What a refreshing change from the last 8 years of "my way or the highway" diplomacy.

Incredible.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2609 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 17):
Imagine that-a President that is willing to TALK to others! What a refreshing change from the last 8 years of "my way or the highway" diplomacy.

Unfortunately Bush's policy was far from that. I was being sarcastic as Obama is already showing how ill prepared he is to deal with what is going on. The Islamic world has already called him out twice on his flipping. Him and Hillary bring absolutely nothing to the table for the only solution is that terrorism will and can not stand and that Hamas and AQ and all the other people that want every jew dead must be dealt with by force. This is the only language they speak. That and Isreal ceasing to exist which they are all prepared to try to make happen. Most of the middle east took his words way too seriously and now that he has basically backed Isreal his credibility is shot to them. The sooner you see that talking can not work with these radical anti-semites the better off you will be. If you are still thinking Obama is going to wave a magic wand on Jan 20th your in for a surprise. I just hope he doesn't do something real stupid because our safety is at issue here and I don't want to see another 9/11 just because our new president wants to be everybody's friend like Jimmy Carter. We all saw how much a disaster that can be.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2607 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 18):
I was being sarcastic as Obama is already showing how ill prepared he is to deal with what is going on.

I know you were sarcastic. And it's a pretty big leap for you to say he's ill-prepared, since he hasn't even taken office yet. But he's a Democrat, and I understand you have to keep up the same old, discredited party line.  Yeah sure


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2589 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
And it's a pretty big leap for you to say he's ill-prepared, since he hasn't even taken office yet. But he's a Democrat, and I understand you have to keep up the same old, discredited party line.

If you look at things objectively and not through the Obama goggles you would see that he has not only angered the radical Islamists (proven by their rections to his words post election that named him as well) and has no real plan to deal with anything. He has survived up till now with the help of CNN and his speech writers but he has no reel plan of dealing with Hamas, AQ or anything else of that nature. You loved him because he told you what you wanted to hear in that he would talk to these people but you failed to see that can never happen. You were just in a rush to hold up your banner and say "we won!" Now the lights are about to go on and your candidate has nothing but Hillary and GWB's stance in that Iran will never be nuclear armed etc. Now Isreal isn't stupid they have seen the same thing I have and that Obama is weak, green and way out of his league and rather than wait till he takes office and see what he will do or what he won't do they said enough of the thuggery and killing and are fighting the people that refuse to allow them to live in peace and I am glad they have and also gladd they are going to keep the heat up and fight to the end. If you weed out the CNN spin on how Isreal is a big bad bully and see that Hamas and the rest of these terrorists are the ones that need to be dealth with and dealth weith harshly you will see that your candidate is going to do nothing different that the previous admimistration has done, yet your are too far invested in him to admit it. If you still want to believe he is going to go over there and make everyone have a group hug and solve this problem that has been arorund for far longer than Bush or Obama are it is your right but trust me it's not even close to reality.


User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2583 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
But it's taken far longer than this Administration thought it would,

I remember a President saying we were going to defeat poverty in our own country, say 42 years ago? Is that taking longer than expected? How many have died waiting on that? To listen to some bleeding hearts they are starving by the dozen each day right here in this country.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
And it's a pretty big leap for you to say he's ill-prepared,

Why? What diplomatic post has he held? What job has he had that has equipped him to sit down and hammer out any agreement with two or more warring parties?

As someone else said, any evidence to the contrary that things are going well will be dismissed. The idea that President Bush is handing over a situation that is much improved over just 18 months ago will be totally overlooked. If the situation continues to improve it will only be because of whatever happens after January 20th. If the situation turns around and goes south it will only be because of whatever wasn't done before January 20th.


User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8442 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2536 times:



Quoting Thorben (Reply 1):
what could Iraqi Airways learn from an US carrier

How to file for bankruptcy protection.


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2511 times:



Quoting Baroque (Reply 12):
Should he not then be saying something to his boss about the way said boss pronounces the name of the country?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq
Audio file in the link.
Or are you telling us he invaded the wrong country? Could be.

The fact that you couldn't resist the opportunity to twist my words around, and turn it into a political slap, added to the fact that your joke fell woefully short; can only be responded to, by simply saying:

Lame.

-UH60


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25085 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2491 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Elite (Reply 10):
Of course we could look back now and say, "we could have done things differently".

Yes. Such as not going there in the first place.

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 Falcon84 : I think the improvement in Iraq is almost completely due to the heroic work of our forces there-guys like UH60, who have put it on the line, every day
26 DXing : As stated, if Iraq continues towards a peaceful independence then it will all be due to what happens after January 20th even if that is simply a cont
27 Falcon84 : Fair enough, but I will certainly not credit the Bush Administration, who badly bungled the invasion, and the occupation. It's been not because of an
28 DXing : Which is just another way of saying the same thing you did before. If the situation has gotten better since the surge, which you supported with all t
29 Falcon84 : Peatrus gets credit for the Surge. It was his idea, and it made sense. Bush approved it. Again, why should I give Bush the credit for Peatrus' idea?
30 Elite : Yes, General Petraeus has definitely done a very good job with the surge in Iraq, but Bush also pushed for the surge and it's just wrong to not give
31 UH60FtRucker : Well lets be frank, it was not "Petraeus's idea" (and Falcon, you could at least spell the guy's name correctly. He's only one of the most important
32 Aaron747 : If you were to lobby that same statement at the Vice President, Rumsfeld, and a few other lofty paragons of arrogance in this administration (note I'
33 UH60FtRucker : Oddly enough, for me, the increasing success in Iraq, only serves to make me more bitter and angry. Because what we are doing today - utilizing class
34 Post contains links ME AVN FAN : - Not exactly, but I referred to his image inside the USA first and in the world in general second. And by "helps the image" I meant an improvement f
35 Elite : If that is your concern, that you need not be worried. President Bush's ratings are still as low as ever and with his term officially coming to an en
36 Falcon84 : I wold think the opposite would be true. You were part of the Surge, is that correct? I think you would be most happy with what wa accomplished. Inte
37 Post contains links Baroque : Well either there is an aim to pronounce proper nouns according to local custom or there is not. Just tell me which? It is not only Bush, but effecti
38 Par13del : I believe UH60 was in Iraq long before the surge, at least I recall seeing him posting on this site well before, he'll correct us if I'm wrong. We ha
39 Mariner : And if, after WW1, the Allies had lived up to the promises of the Treaty of Sevres (1920), the Kurds might have had their own country. mariner
40 Aaron747 : What would you say to Mr. Cheney, Mr. Perle, Mr. Rumsfeld, Mr. Bremer, et al, given the chance? I'm still interested to see what history will say abo
41 UH60FtRucker : I deployed to Iraq from early '06 to early '07, for 13 months. When Iraq was at it's absolute worse. General Petraeus became the commanding general o
42 Post contains links Baroque : http://seekingalpha.com/article/1131...-keep-oil-price-in-check-for-years Iraqi oil production was about 2.5 mb/d before the U.S. invaded. It dropped
43 Par13del : More important is how much money the US has made from its incursion into Iraq which should offset the billions that the US taxpayors are pouring into
44 YOWza : A tad hasty me thinks. Setting a house on fire then peeing on it to try put the flames out is not exactly admirable. No doubt the MASSIVE embassy you
45 DXing : Then both get credit. One could not have done it without the other. As I have several times in different threads. No matter what happens there is a g
46 Post contains links Dougloid : And I have just the place for them. When are you going to post more of your pics, sixty? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attu_Island
47 ME AVN FAN : - there basically is no double L, and the translation of the "U" depends on whether the transliteration is based on English, French or German. Englis
48 YOWza : MEAVNFAN you are more of an optimist than I thought! Attrition in Iraq is not only and will not only be between sects and political parties but betwee
49 ME AVN FAN : - To have it with CP-USSR Secretary General J.V. Dshugashvili, "the power comes out of the gun-barrels". It does NOT come out of whatever holy script
50 Dougloid : That's a maoism-"political power comes out of the barrel of a gun" Richard Engel spells it "Faluja" in his excellent book War Journal.
51 ME AVN FAN : - Mao in this simply quoted J.V.D.Stalin
52 YOWza : I think that statement does have some merit but gets really tricky when those that zealously believe in their interpretations of scripts also have pl
53 ME AVN FAN : - No doubt about this. But steps onto the right way have to be recognized. I in fact was and to some extent still AM critical about what goes on and
54 AGM100 : MAF , This is my favorite post from you ever !! Not saying that I don't find your posts interesting , I do .. however this one shows the ability to c
55 Seb146 : Which would not have happened if Iraq had not been invaded in the first place. How many insurgents were there in Iraq before the "coalition" invaded?
56 Post contains images Cadet57 : I thought they already were a long time ago:
57 DXing : Plenty, they were called the Ba'ath Party then and their leader was Saddam. And they ran right into Pakistan where they base their operations from to
58 Baroque : This is true. My problem is that there certainly ARE bombings, not perhaps as frequent, but equally, I will bet we only learn of the more spectacular
59 ME AVN FAN : - When the "allies" dissolved both the armed forces and the police without filling the gap left, the gap was used by an assortment of extremists and
60 Baroque : AFAIK or can remember, back in 2003ish, the US spent millions on setting up TV stations in Iraq to sell the good news. So where is the good news, it
61 ME AVN FAN : - the two US-"sponsored" radio/TV stations have been so heavily overdone with pro-US stuff that they long ago got into disrepute. Positive news rathe
62 Post contains links Baroque : Surprise. Ok searched Al J as I know it has an English page. Searched for "Iraq reconstruction" and what did I get? http://english.aljazeera.net/news
63 Seb146 : But, Iraq was an independant nation. Saddam did not overthrow anyone. The United States helped install him as leader of Iraq. No, you didn't There we
64 DXing : That is exactly where they retreated too when the going got tough. Just because it served as their supply line to the north does not mean that they c
65 Post contains links ME AVN FAN : - the good news, from www.english.aljazeeera.net : --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
66 Post contains links Baroque : We must have different Al Js. That link goes through to a set of ads. Searching just produces more ads. Thanks a lot for that, ads I do not need. Whe
67 DXing : Disagree. The tribes in northwest of Pakistan are, by all reports, completely receptive to OBL and AQ. The top leaders of that group are not flying a
68 Seb146 : I wonder which conditions those will be. I also wonder if contractors will be subject to Iraqi laws "under certain conditions." Yeah, you're right. S
69 ME AVN FAN : - a real embassy of a big country means lots of business for taxi companies, forwarding companies, electricians, cleaning companies, etc. So that the
70 DXing : Yes you can if you are replying to your statement that: Because obviously if he came to power in 1979 President Carter was in office. Yes, just like
71 Baroque : So let me get this straight, opening a US Embassy in the green zone equates to more electric power to Sadr city, or clean water or fixing the sewers?
72 ME AVN FAN : - Not necessarily the airport, they may have been enroute to/from the rail-station for/from a train to/from Lahore or Karachi. So that the city was T
73 AlexEU : If Iraq was democratic from the beginning, Baghdad airport would be like Dubai or Doha. @Topic, USA should have never occupied Iraq, which unlike Afg
74 Post contains links STT757 : There was a great piece on 60 Minutes last night on the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mike Mullen, specifically about the new Administ
75 ME AVN FAN : In the times of Presidents General Abdur-Rahman Aref and General Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr, Baghdad Airport WAS more important than Dubai or Doha, but alm
76 Baroque : Ever wondered why Mr al-T started his war against Iran? Re the Embassy, you are scraping a bit for the flow on effects. Then again, it is probably be
77 ME AVN FAN : - If you happen to mean the US embassy, I agree !
78 Seb146 : That scares me in some respects. KBR, Blackwater, and all the contractor services in Iraq have high-powered legal teams. New contracts will be writte
79 ME AVN FAN : No, if these contractors leave the diplomatic or military compounds they will be under Iraqi jurisdiction. If the shoot people INSIDE these compounds
80 Baroque : So sorry to hear of your state of irritation Seb!! And there I was, rather hoping you would have a pleasant 2009. I would hate to bet on a subject li
81 ME AVN FAN : - I would NOT bet on ANY time-frame. Sometimes things take longer than expected and sometimes far less time. I still remember that people in the late
82 Post contains links Baroque : "Iraq has always been a difficult country." Talking of women as MAF and I were, I fell on this on a BBC website while looking for something else. Nice
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
President Bush Goes Cowboy Again Over Iraq posted Fri Sep 7 2007 05:03:59 by Falcon84
Great Report By Bruno Schirra On Iraq Again posted Wed Mar 12 2003 16:40:22 by NoUFO
UN Caves Into Iraq Once Again posted Wed Oct 2 2002 16:39:55 by Alpha 1
The Somali Pirates Are At It Again! posted Sat Nov 8 2008 05:31:39 by Doona
Will Hillary Clinton Run For US Presidency Again? posted Thu Oct 23 2008 19:25:49 by United Airline
Ex-MI5 Chief - Iraq War Motivated Brit Terrorists posted Fri Oct 17 2008 21:28:01 by NAV20
A.net Fantasy Football League About To Start Again posted Thu Oct 9 2008 19:48:57 by N1120A
Is Jamie Lynn Spears Pregnant Again? posted Wed Oct 8 2008 07:54:55 by JFK69
Lance Armstrong To Ride The Tour Again posted Tue Sep 9 2008 14:42:57 by KAUST
Woodward: Secret Killing Program Is Key In Iraq posted Tue Sep 9 2008 12:11:26 by Mortyman