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President Bush Holds Final News Conference  
User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3395 times:

If you had a chance to watch it you had to wonder where that President was during certain events in his administration. While I disagree with his financial and immigration policies I do agree with his defense policies. It was interesting to watch the press conference and then start reading the news reports. How different what he said is portrayed in the news article versus what he actually said. One examply, Mission Accomplished which is probably the most misused picture and interpretation on A.net's non-av forum. First, what one site is reporting:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090112/...p_on_go_pr_wh/bush_news_conference

"And he admitted another miscalculation: Eager to report quick progress after U.S. troops ousted Saddam's government, he declared less than two months after the war started that "in the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed," a claim made under a "Mission Accomplished" banner that turned out to be wildly optimistic. "Clearly, putting 'Mission Accomplished' on an aircraft carrier was a mistake," he said Monday. "It sent the wrong message."

To read that you would get the impression that he clearly admitted that the banner was wrong. But if you go to the text of the news conference you get a totally different take.

"Q And I'm not trying to play "gotcha," but I wonder, when you look back over the long arc of your presidency, do you think, in retrospect, that you have made any mistakes? And if so, what is the single biggest mistake that you may have made?

THE PRESIDENT: Gotcha. I have often said that history will look back and determine that which could have been done better, or, you know, mistakes I made. Clearly putting a "Mission Accomplished" on a aircraft carrier was a mistake. It sent the wrong message. We were trying to say something differently, but nevertheless, it conveyed a different message. Obviously, some of my rhetoric has been a mistake. "


Which is what some of us have been saying all along. The banner itself was not wrong, the carrier and it's crew had accomplished their mission. But the left took it as though everyone thought the war was over which was not ever the case for had it been we would have started to draw down immediately.

It will be interesting to see how the press treats the new President after the honeymoon is over.

It was also interesting to hear how the President, when asked about America supposed standing overseas, he reiterated my complaint some other countries which I've highlighted:

Q One of the major objectives that the incoming administration has talked frequently about is restoring America's moral standing in the world. And many of the allies of the new President -- I believe that the President-elect himself has talked about the damage that Gitmo, that harsh interrogation tactics that they consider torture, how going to war in Iraq without a U.N. mandate have damaged America's moral standing in the world. I'm wondering basically what is your reaction to that? Do you think that is that something that the next President needs to worry about?

THE PRESIDENT: I strongly disagree with the assessment that our moral standing has been damaged. It may be damaged amongst some of the elite, but people still understand America stands for freedom, that America is a country that provides such great hope.

You go to Africa, you ask Africans about America's generosity and compassion; go to India, and ask about, you know, America's -- their view of America. Go to China and ask. Now, no question parts of Europe have said that we shouldn't have gone to war in Iraq without a mandate, but those are a few countries. Most countries in Europe listened to what 1441 said, which is disclose, disarm or face serious consequences.

Most people take those words seriously. Now, some countries didn't -- even though they might have voted for the resolution. I disagree with this assessment that, you know, people view America in a dim light. I just don't agree with that. And I understand that Gitmo has created controversies. But when it came time for those countries that were criticizing America to take some of those -- some of those detainees, they weren't willing to help out. And so, you know, I just disagree with the assessment, Mike.

I agree with the Presidents response 100%.

I say good for him. I'm sure that in his retirement, since he is only 62, he will find something rewarding and intersting to keep himself occupied with. I look forward to the day I can visit his library and museum and hope to have a chance to meet him someday. Good luck and best wishes Mr. President.

139 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21634 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3384 times:

Haven't watched the conference yet, so I'll have to do that tonight, but in the meantime:

Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
To read that you would get the impression that he clearly admitted that the banner was wrong.

Not really. The passage you quoted says that the President admitted that the banner was a bad idea (which it was, as was the rest of the whole stunt).

At worst, you could say that the article was making the point that the "Mission Accomplished" banner was itself wrong (which could also be argued, depending on what you view the mission as). But nowhere does that passage say that the president himself said that the text of the banner was incorrect.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineYellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3352 times:



Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
THE PRESIDENT:...Now, no question parts of Europe have said that we shouldn't have gone to war in Iraq without a mandate, but those are a few countries. Most countries in Europe listened to what 1441 said, which is disclose, disarm or face serious consequences.

That's complete and utter BS. Take a look at this map, which someone put together for the Wikipedia article on the international response to the Iraq war:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/36/State_positions_Iraq_war.png
Orange represents countries that participated in the initial invasion, yellow represents countries that supported the war at its outset, and blue represents those that opposed it. There are way more than "a few countries" in that latter category. 54 countries have protested the war formally and officially, including the seven most populous countries on the planet (not counting the US). A Gallup poll of ten European countries (Spain, France, Luxembourg, Portugal, Germany, Denmark, Finland, the UK, Ireland, and the Netherlands) found that support for a non-UN-mandated invasion was less than 10 percent. The same poll found that, except for the UK, a majority of responders in each country believed their country should not support a war against Iraq if the US went ahead with it. Bush is delusional if he believes his war had any sort of broad-based international support.



Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3318 times:
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Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 2):
Take a look at this map, which someone put together for the Wikipedia article on the international response to the Iraq war:

One of the biggest orange pieces on the map is Greenland, population about 57,000. I guess it's technically part of Denmark, but the visual distortion, combined with that of Alaska (pop. about 700,000) is pretty dramatic.

Bush (and his ardent supporters) is deluding himself if he thinks he had a broad global support for the Iraq misadventure. And I don't buy this "elites" argument. Poll after poll in those countries often showed that the people were actually more vociferously opposed to Bush's policies than their government. Maybe ask Tony Blair about that right now.

Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
Which is what some of us have been saying all along. The banner itself was not wrong, the carrier and it's crew had accomplished their mission. But the left took it as though everyone thought the war was over which was not ever the case for had it been we would have started to draw down immediately.

In other words, it was a feeble attempt at spin, and it backfired badly. So what?



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3240 times:



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 2):
Orange represents countries that participated in the initial invasion, yellow represents countries that supported the war at its outset, and blue represents those that opposed it. There are way more than "a few countries" in that latter category.

In Europe? When I blow up the map the numbers are pretty even orange versus blue. As a matter of fact I see a majority in orange and yellow.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 2):
One of the biggest orange pieces on the map is Greenland

Also one of the biggest blue pieces is Russia. How many people live in Siberia?

Quoting Arrow (Reply 3):
In other words, it was a feeble attempt at spin, and it backfired badly. So what?

If you are saying a feeble attempt at spin on the lefts part you're correct. If the correct interpretation had been applied then it's not spin as the President was alluding to. The banner was there for the carriers actions, only the left and left leaning press chose to present it as something else.


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3221 times:

Op cit [i]He also cited the abuses found to have been committed by members of the U.S. military at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq as "a huge disappointment."[i/]

Aha, a disappointment and HUGE. Either he ordered what went on there, or he was derelict in his duty to ensure it did not happen. The systemic nature of those activities at Gitmo, Abu Graib and Bagram suggest most likely the former.

So a reasonable interpretation of the disappointment is that he was disappointed to be found out.


User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3283 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3220 times:

Dubyah will also be giving a televised "farewell address":

"After eight stressful years on the job, President Bush will deliver a farewell address to the nation on network television at 8 p.m. ET on Thursday, the White House announced. The address will be 10 to 15 minutes long, from the East Room of the White House."

Source: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/17367.html

Buh-bye W!  wave 



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21634 posts, RR: 55
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3169 times:



Quoting DXing (Reply 4):
If the correct interpretation had been applied then it's not spin as the President was alluding to. The banner was there for the carriers actions, only the left and left leaning press chose to present it as something else.

While the work of the men and women of the Abraham Lincoln was certainly important and appreciated, it seems to be pretty extreme to go to the trouble of landing there in the jet just to give the crew of that particular ship a pat on the back for that particular mission. That ship wasn't the only carrier in the Gulf (IIRC, the Harry Truman was there also) - why didn't the other ones get a speech from the president? I'm sure the ground troops would have liked their own speech as well (obviously there are more logistical issues there).

The Bush people are masters of swaying public perception. That's not a criticism - they're politicians, so it's to be expected. But in light of that fact, I find it very hard to believe that none of them realized what sort of message the banner would send. The allowed him to make the speech with that banner in the background.

And even if the banner was intended solely for that ship, trying to spin it to blame the left for misinterpretation is pathetic and childish. You can't mangle a statement like that and then just throw up your hands and walk away from the responsibility. They screwed it up, and rightfully took the hit for it.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineElite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2803 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3158 times:

President Bush isn't such a bad guy. Yes, he made mistakes, and goofed up more than usual, but the amount of criticism that he received is sometimes disproportionate. People are always quick to jump on W's case but reluctant to give him any credit.

I won't be sad to see President Bush go and President-elect Obama come - because it seems like there is a lot of hope on President-elect Obama and I'll admit I'm sold - I'm slightly more hopeful too. But what is sad is that so many people deserted the President and gave him no support at all for whatever he did, whether it was right or wrong. I cannot say he was a good President, but I can say for sure that he doesn't rank as one of America's worst Presidents of all time that so many people believe he is. No way.


User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3142 times:

Analysis: Bush legacy — grim times, gloomy nation
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bush_s_legacy_analysis

"I've been a wartime president," he said. "I've dealt with two economic recessions now. I've had, you know, a lot of serious challenges. What matters to me is that I did not compromise my soul to be a popular guy."

So let history judge, Bush says.

The country already has. "

Yes, the MAJORITY country certainly has... he's a complete and utter failure.
Even exception made for the Iraq Invasion fiasco, the man has been the worst and most incompetent leader for the top tier of powerful nations. If this guy was the leader of Zimbabwe (or any 3rd World nation)...we'd have a field day making fun of him as we do Mugabe and Chavez. At least the other are very capable of articulating their viewpoints no matter how provocative. As a person, Reagan had Alzheimers...I have no idea what Bush's excuse is.

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13115 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3126 times:

From what I saw of this press conference on the news and with the commentary about it, I found it to be very disturbing. GWB is in such denial of the mistakes he and his administration made that it suggests perhaps he suffers from serious mental health problems. Since the day he took office in a highly disputed election, I have had nothing but contempt for him and his policies which contributed to the moral and financial crises of the USA today. While I do have significant reservations as to Obama and he faces huge issues that are the product of Democrats as well, I will fell much better with him in office and GWB in retirement, hopefully someday tried for his crimes in office.

User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3109 times:



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 10):
GWB is in such denial of the mistakes he and his administration made that it suggests perhaps he suffers from serious mental health problems.

That seems eminently fair. Possibly a little on the kindly side even!

If the defenders of the Mission A banner care to listen, he does admit it was a mistake although it seems also that he has forgotten what the explanation for that blue was and goes on to demonstrate he is still profoundly confused:
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...on-accomplished-was-a-mistake.aspx

Look, I have often said that history will look back and determine that which could have been done better or, you know, mistakes I made. Clearly, putting a "mission accomplished" on a (sic) aircraft carrier was a mistake. It sent the wrong message. We were trying to say something differently, but, nevertheless, it conveyed a different message. Obviously, some of my rhetoric has been a mistake.


User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11657 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3079 times:

Listening to this press conference, it sounds like those people who go out and murder someone for a stupid reason, then, in court, start crying and apologizing. You know: they do something they know is wrong or illegal and worry about the consequenses later; hope to play on people's sympathy when judgment comes. I know that sounds harsh and I will be ripped a new one, but think about it: Katrina: He went to parties instead of overriding local authorities. Sept 11: he was reading "My Pet Goat" instead of exusing himself, then made the announcment in front of the school children that 3000 innocents had been murdered. Landing on the Abraham Lincoln off San Diego with the "MA" banner and just now thinks it was a bad idea. Abu Graib and Guantanimo could have been headed off by him, but he did nothing.


Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3073 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
That ship wasn't the only carrier in the Gulf

Was it the only ship coming back to port at that time?

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
I'm sure the ground troops would have liked their own speech as well (obviously there are more logistical issues there).

How many times has he been there? At Thanksgiving, Christmas?

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
They screwed it up, and rightfully took the hit for it.

Fraid not. The left and some late night comedians decided to have fun with it.

Quoting Elite (Reply 8):
I'm slightly more hopeful too.

Hopeful at what? That he will stop lowering the bar for himself now that he is elected?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 9):
Yes, the MAJORITY country certainly has... he's a complete and utter failure.

Guess that's why he was re-elected by a majority.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 10):
GWB is in such denial of the mistakes he and his administration made that it suggests perhaps he suffers from serious mental health problems.

Tell me, where is Iraq today? Are troop withdrawls planned? How much of the security has been turned over to Iraqi security forces? Is anyone talking about being there in force for a decade or more anymore? How about Gitmo, has he tried to close it? Of course as he said, those that complain the most are the least willing to help make that happen.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 11):
If the defenders of the Mission A banner care to listen, he does admit it was a mistake although it seems also that he has forgotten what the explanation for that blue was and goes on to demonstrate he is still profoundly confused

Doesn't sound confused at all. What is confusing is a campaign promise saying:

"As President, I will close Guantánamo, reject the Military Commissions Act, and adhere to the Geneva Conventions."

8/1/07, The Woodrow Wilson Center, Washington D.C.


But as his time comes to serve as President we get:

http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/Economy/Story?id=6618199&page=2

STEPHANOPOULOS: You also agreed on Guantanamo when you say you want to shut it down. You say you're still going to shut it down. Is it turning out to be harder than you expected, will you get that done in the first 100 days?

OBAMA: It is more difficult than I think a lot of people realize and we are going to get it done but part of the challenge that you have is that you have a bunch of folks that have been detained, many of whom who may be very dangerous who have not been put on trial or have not gone through some adjudication. And some of the evidence against them may be tainted even though it's true. And so how to balance creating a process that adheres to rule of law, habeas corpus, basic principles of Anglo American legal system, by doing it in a way that doesn't result in releasing people who are intent on blowing us up.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So not necessarily first 100 days.

OBAMA: That's a challenge. I think it's going to take some time and our legal teams are working in consultation with our national security apparatus as we speak to help design exactly what we need to do. But I don't want to be ambiguous about this. We are going to close Guantanamo and we are going to make sure that the procedures we set up are ones that abide by our constitution. That is not only the right thing to do but it actually has to be part of our broader national security strategy because we will send a message to the world that we are serious about our values.


Sounds confusing to me, especially since his team has been leaking that while Gitmo will be closed all they are really going to do is move the detainees to a different location that will have the same security measures as they are in now. What's the quote? A rose by any other name?

Even more confusing:

OBAMA: For example, Vice President Cheney I think continues to defend what he calls extraordinary measures or procedures when it comes to interrogations and from my view waterboarding is torture. I have said that under my administration we will not torture.

But then goes on to say:

STEPHANOPOULOS: So no more special CIA program?

OBAMA: I'm not going to lay out a particular program because again, I thought that Dick Cheney's advice was good, which is let's make sure we know everything that's being done.


So easy to run for President, so hard to govern as President is what I think someone is starting to realize. Either that or he was very confused during the campaign and didn't realize what he was saying.


User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3048 times:
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Quoting DXing (Reply 13):
Fraid not. The left and some late night comedians decided to have fun with it.

There's a fundamental tenet here that has gone right over your head -- although I'm sure, in your case, that if it was aimed squarely between your eyes, you'd duck.

That whole "mission accomplished" episode was manufactured by the spin doctors to portray Bush as a victorious leader. Fly the guy onto an aircraft carrier full of cheering, exuberant sailors; get him, in his flight suit, on a podium on the flight deck to deliver a set piece with all that cheering as a backdrop, and -- most important -- make sure the national news media are there with their lights and cameras.

I can guarantee you that in the immediate aftermath of that inspiring episode, there was euphoria in the ranks of those spin doctors -- and that would include the unexpected "mission accomplished" banner. What a lovely accident that was! For several days I'm sure they basked in the success of that moment, and didn't for one minute consider that it might backfire.

It was only in the longer term aftermath that the "mission accomplished" banner became a liability as the media began to turn their "spin" around on them -- flashing that little bit of theatre every time a new casualty count came in. Over and over again. There's nothing "left" about it. The media was rubbing Bush's nose in his own excesses. Isn't it funny how, in hindsight, he thought the banner was a bad idea because it portrayed the wrong message. Bullshit. It conveyed exactly the message they were hoping for -- but it backfired big-time when the message was shown to be false.

He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

[Edited 2009-01-13 11:22:42]


Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3033 times:
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Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 6):
Dubyah will also be giving a televised "farewell address":

"After eight stressful years on the job, President Bush will deliver a farewell address to the nation on network television at 8 p.m. ET on Thursday, the White House announced. The address will be 10 to 15 minutes long, from the East Room of the White House."

There is 15 minutes we will never get back.

Quoting DXing (Reply 13):
Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
That ship wasn't the only carrier in the Gulf

Was it the only ship coming back to port at that time?

It has been reported that the ship was kept out to sea a whole extra day to pull off this stunt.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3021 times:



Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
where that President was

-
whatever, he now solves at least ONE problem ---- he goes into retirement

Quoting Arrow (Reply 3):
Bush (and his ardent supporters) is deluding himself if he thinks he had a broad global support for the Iraq misadventure. And I don't buy this "elites" argument.

-
Some of the "elite", at least among rightwing politicians and economic leaders, DID support the GWB crew, but the basis, for instance in Italy, never did.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7703 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2999 times:
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Quoting DXing (Reply 4):
Also one of the biggest blue pieces is Russia. How many people live in Siberia?

Tens of millions, unlike Greenland which has less than one hundred thousand.

Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
Final News Conference

Unless it involves an apology to the world, I'm not interested.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8153 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2977 times:



Quoting DXing (Reply 4):
Also one of the biggest blue pieces is Russia. How many people live in Siberia?

One of the few yellow countries in Asia is Japan. Bush is only counting his support from other governments - popular support for Iraq is quite another thing. The Iraq war has had between 70 and 85% disapproval among Japanese in newspaper opinion polling for as long as I've been watching here. The aid missions to Iraq have been among the reasons the Prime Minister's seat has changed hands three times during Bush's tenure.

Bush is simply not in touch with what most of the world thinks about where the reputation of the US has gone in the last 8 years. In a recent opinion poll, 60-some percent of Japanese said they don't feel the US is "trustworthy". That's a staggering indictment from a reliable ally.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2970 times:
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You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3283 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2952 times:



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 15):
There is 15 minutes we will never get back.



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 17):
Unless it involves an apology to the world, I'm not interested.

Ah, but we can throw our shoes (or at least bedroom slippers) at the television in protest!  duck 



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7703 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2948 times:
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Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 20):
Ah, but we can throw our shoes (or at least bedroom slippers) at the television in protest! duck

I think we should have a new smiley icon for shoe throwing.  Smile



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10736 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2940 times:

Blablabla, Imadenomistakesandeverythingwassodifficult.

That he blatantly lies when saying that the US didnt loose a good deal of its once good image abroad is a sign he has no sense for reality. No president ever made the US look so bad as this Texan, no one ever ran it down so fast and so deep. Thats the bare truth.

Good riddance, Cowboy! May you likeness never raise to power again.


User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3283 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2933 times:



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 21):
I think we should have a new smiley icon for shoe throwing.

I completely agree! Let's start a petition to DM management to add that icon!  idea 



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2894 times:

Guess what.....No shoes were allowed inside the conference  wink 
Out here GWB found favour by people who were keen on the India-US Civil nuclear deal,as GWB did make an effort for this.

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
25 Post contains links DXing : Fraid not, it was being ridiculed by the left before it was over with. Yet even with western Russia and its big cities included you only get and 8.4
26 Baroque : W should have listened more carefully to the Japanese then!
27 Mir : Might have been. But then why didn't the others get their own ceremony when they came back to port? Fair point. Because the Administration chose to g
28 Post contains links and images Luv2fly : A reason to get up in the morning.
29 Post contains images RussianJet : You're right, relative population densities clearly show that Russia is no more significant in world affairs than Greenland.    Hmm, Mongolia. Well
30 DXing : Perhaps they did but since the aircraft carrier is the center of any carrier battle group it is where the major events for the group are held. Becaus
31 RussianJet : That is not correct: But in any case, land mass, population, whatever - a huge number of people and countries didn't want that stupid war, and they s
32 BN747 : I'm typing this as this 'sorry excuse for a leader' speaks... ..how dare he speak of human suffering then acknowledge a Katrina victim who over came t
33 StasisLAX : I shattered my flat-screen television by repeatedly throwing shoes at the idiot-in-chief.
34 Luv2fly : I was thinking the same thing. Where was a shoe thrower when we really needed on. I do have to say after watching him speak, what eight years was he
35 DXing : Really, please name which country refuses to deal with us on any level that didn't prior to this administration. This same kind of foolishness has be
36 Luv2fly : I can't talk for SasisLAX though myself yes unlike you I can see his faults and mistakes as they tend to over shadow any good that he brought to the
37 StasisLAX : As a long-time registered Libertarian, I cannot excuse what Dubyah has done to harm civil liberties of Americans - FISA is just one example.
38 BN747 : Here are a few memorable facts... In addition to not leading the charge when a major American City was devastated (New Orleans) and needed help ASAP!
39 Post contains links Dreadnought : Interesting what you call facts... Where are the facts here? Here's one - Blaming the President or the federal government is like blaming the mayor t
40 EZEIZA : I just heard the speech ... pathetic to say the least. The only thing that was true was that there have been no terrorist attacks on US soil since 9/1
41 EZEIZA : True, but the relief efforts of a devastaded city is federal responsability Honest? are talking about the same guy? What was honest in the reasoning
42 Dreadnought : No it isn't. It's a local responsibility, unless the Governor asks for Federal help, which she neglected to do. As I recall, Bush actually requested
43 Cairo : at what cost? This is a question of priorities - Iraq was no threat to the USA. The war is costing 2 to 3 trillion dollars. 2-3 Trillion! The alterna
44 WunalaYann : More than 142 million people live in Russia and the Trans-Siberian corridor is populated all the way to Vladivostock. Australia is the second biggest
45 Post contains links BN747 : Yeah, like flying ALL THE WAY from Washington DC 1900 miles west passing MSY just to attend a fund raiser and party with John McCain and eat cake whi
46 Mir : So where was the big presidential speech on the Truman when it and its group came back to port? It only happened a couple of weeks later. -Mir
47 RussianJet : Nice change of focus there. I never said anything about countries 'refusing to deal' with the USA. I have said, correctly, that the international rep
48 Toulouse : May I ask you what exactly your point is? Population of Russia is 142 MILLIONS, population of Greenland is 57.564 THOUSAND. Fact, end of story. Popul
49 RussianJet : Yup. Even in the UK, supposedly a staunch ally in the Iraq war, we had probably the biggest demonstrations I ever recall seeing about any issue, prot
50 ME AVN FAN : - So that Mr Cheney now will have lots of time to go hunting ! - In countries like Spain and Italy, the population by overwhelming majority was heavi
51 Baroque : Perhaps RJ we should arrange a meeting* of those in the populations of those two pillars of the Coalition of the Willing, Australia and the UK, who s
52 RussianJet : That is for sure. I have no problem with people's deluded support of Bush. Hey, if they like him then it's their funeral. But to suggest he isn't maj
53 Post contains links Baroque : To complete the trio, Howard was known by some in his own party as the Lying Rodent. For more on this amazing story read: http://www.smh.com.au/artic
54 EZEIZA : If you put a major person of the administation stand in front of the UN with sat images and saying "this is proof of WMD's" and then those WMD's are
55 DXing : Well I'll be holding my breath waiting then as so far even a nominee that failed to pay his taxes on time doesn't seem to ruffle any feathers. Exactl
56 RussianJet : And there you have it folks. It's 'shallow-minded' to place importance on your country's role in world politics and affairs. Personally, I want my co
57 DXing : If you are placing it above domestic concerns it is. Welcome to the world of style before substance folks. I'm sure you'll get a lot of agreement sin
58 Toulouse : Firstly DXing, before responding to your responses, just a little disclaimer. This is friendly debate. I am not attacking your views, only giving mine
59 Luv2fly : Good post and right on the money. The cost is more than human lives, it is a failed reputation in the world just to name one.
60 RussianJet : I don't believe it is. Domestic and International affairs are equally important in my view. If you as a country do not respect others, how can we exp
61 Seb146 : Tell me how the President of the United States of America has no authority to save citizens of the United States of America? Tell me how going to a f
62 Post contains links DXing : Not what I said. I said Which is not "at all costs". Domestic concerns have topped the list of why people have voted for Presidents for decades. This
63 DXing : Without the invitation of the Governor of LA to do so he did not unless he wanted to declare New Orleans to be in insurrection and declare martial la
64 RussianJet : I would respectfully point out that I was making a statement and offering an opinion to further explain my views, not seeking to misrepresent anyone
65 ME AVN FAN : - I at his start as PrimeMinister liked him and to some extent even admired him. My positive view of him however gradually fell apart when watching h
66 WunalaYann : And as a European who supports the counter-terrorism strategy in Afghanistan, I can testify first-hand. Depends what you call "countries". If you tal
67 Seb146 : Really? When? Are you talking about 1441 that said he could after diplomacy had failed, after embargos had failed, and after he returned to Congress
68 Cairo : I agree with most of your thoughts, but, your last paragraph is unpersuasive. America thinks the countries that have been dealing with terrorism for
69 Cedars747 : The world will remember him as Mr Bushoes ! Hasta la vista baby Alex!!!
70 WunalaYann : Very good points. And you could definitely add Spain to the list of large European countries that have had traumatising yet enlightening experiences
71 BN747 : The world will more likely remember him as the Three Stooges - All rolled up into one person - and wonder and ponder 'how in the hell did he snooker
72 Post contains links DXing : Read all about it here. http://www.c-span.org/resources/pdf/hjres114.pdf SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES. (a) AUTHORIZATI
73 Post contains links WunalaYann : Indeed. The same governments who got voted out immediately afterwards. See Spain. Care to point out to me where there is a mention to terrorism or an
74 Baroque : I understand what you mean, but it is a very distorted and one sided view of American involvement in terrorism, bearing in mind that until about 10 y
75 Cairo : Irish Catholics dropping money into collection jars at Boston bars, and the other financial conduits the IRA used....very interesting analogy, but I
76 Post contains links Baroque : Curiously, this might be how it ended!! http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/1...epublican-army-guess-who-invested/ The (bad) luck of the Irish Republi
77 Yellowstone : Iraq never did pose a threat to the United States, ergo item 1 is not valid. The United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441, which is the resolu
78 DXing : You are the one who pointed out... If burning hundreds of cars is dealing well with the Muslim communities then again, I think we'll skip the French
79 Yellowstone : According to the Iraq Survey Group and the Duelfer Report, as well as other postwar intelligence efforts. And don't start with the whole "Bush was go
80 RussianJet : All that counts?? Call me old fashioned, but what the people want should also matter. None of those countries voted for a war, and they never voted i
81 EZEIZA : wow, there are still people that defend the Iraq war, and even with all the evidence and after so many years, they actually still believe the excuse
82 Baroque : You are OLD FASHIONED RJ and also TBR, as in too bloody right!!! The only thing worse than the behaviour of Blair in the UK was that of HM Loyal Oppo
83 Post contains links Aaron747 : As previously stated, even in countries that are supposedly our dear allies, like Japan, recent opinion polling indicates a huge gap between American
84 Mortyman : Many countries deal with the US because it is in the countries best interest politically. It does'nt mean that the want to... And that is a very dang
85 Elite : It is important, yes, but what is even more important is the safety of the country and its citizens. George W. Bush himself said that he wasn't worri
86 Mortyman : The war on terror would be more effective if the US and it's allies could agree on how to do things, instead of following the one sided American view
87 EZEIZA : I would say economically as well, but you are right, and you have Venezuela being a perfect example.
88 DXing : Says it all. Post war intelligence always shows how things could have been done differently. Unless you are living in an actual democracy where every
89 RussianJet : You're not. What you're in fact apparently saying is that just because a system exists it is therefore fair and right, or that people therefore agree
90 EZEIZA : Yes, there are people that believe that because that is the reason W gave in order to justify it. I'm curious to know what you believe the reason was
91 Yellowstone : True, but there's a huge difference between, say, "We could have used 10% more troops" and "The main justification for our war never existed." A reas
92 Mortyman : My apology if I have left out a country or misplaced a country, but according to the map: Orange 1. USA 2. Denmark 3. Greenland ( part of Denmark ) 4
93 Toulouse : That's an article from 2006. Was a couple of difficult months here in France, but things have returned to normal/ You indeed seem intent on "skipping
94 DXing : Then that is your opinion and nothing else. The system has worked for over 200 years. Because sometimes the people don't know all the facts and can't
95 RussianJet : Worked by whose measure? There have certainly been enough appalling actions and mistakes in that time. It has existed for a long time, whether is 'wo
96 Seb146 : Check out Luv2fly's post #19: Bush 5/01/03: "We have removed an ally of al-Qaida and removed a source of funding." Knowing full well OBL and Saddam h
97 EZEIZA : 1. They were never there 2. What right does the US exactly have in liberating Iraq? And by the way, you do know Saddam used to be an ally right? 3. r
98 Yellowstone : Your burden of proof standard is way off. It was on Bush, as the leader of the invading country, to prove that Iraq had WMDs and thus justify the war
99 WunalaYann : I staunchly disagree. Having seen the means and results of the French integration policies first-hand, I can guarantee you that your statement is inc
100 Post contains links Baroque : And by and large has managed (so far) to obfuscate on who knew what and when. http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/05/30/1054177726543.html Dated May
101 Post contains links DXing : I don't think you have, but unfortunately you counted up a lot of countries that didn't count in the argument. Read the Presidents quote and my follo
102 RussianJet : No, you have opined such a thing - not shown. You don't agree, fine. I understand you have a different view on the matter. As someone who has been se
103 EZEIZA : Well, W gave "proof" that they were there, and he started an invasion based on that, and they weren't there. I guess that's my proof, but I don't nee
104 DXing : You are disputing the poll numbers? I live in the U.S. and am not a UK citizen. No you weren't. Only in this last post have you confined your stateme
105 Arrow : I gotta hand it to you, DX, you can twist an argument and spin numbers with the best of them. Ever consider a career in politics? Anyone who can take
106 RussianJet : Nope. I'm sorry if you didn't get it or it wasn't clear enough for you, but I certainly was talking about my country, from the only point of view I c
107 Yellowstone : I'm giving the other reasons just as much attention as the Bush administration did prior to the war. You know as well as I do that the WMD issue was
108 WunalaYann : And you continue to ignore that at the very same time we were talking about liberating the Iraqi people and getting rid of SHAT, other people were li
109 DXing : Really. Where did I suggest anything other than Europe? I can't help if someone posts a map of the world. It does not change what the President said
110 RussianJet : In the context of everything said before, I think it was clear I was talking about my own country. But in any case, whether it was clear to others or
111 EZEIZA : freedom for the Iraqi's? Protect the US? it's been mentioned, but how was Iraq a threat to the US? The main reason was the WMD's, and they lied about
112 WunalaYann : Based on the three reasons you put forward, they did. No WMDs, brutal dictators and oppressed people. To quote you: So? I don't read minds, yet I kne
113 DXing : That has been discussed so many times here that rather than do it again you may feel free to look it up in any number of previous threads. Source tha
114 Post contains links EZEIZA : Quotes from Powell's presentation to the UN "My second purpose today is to provide you with additional information, to share with you what the United
115 Yellowstone : Wrong - he didn't have WMD's, and even if he did his desire to maintain power over something more than a sheet of glass would have prevented their us
116 Post contains links Baroque : And remnants are still holding on to some of the demolished shibboleths as firmly as they can, presumably to - they think - minimise their own levels
117 EZEIZA : Ahhh yes, the "with us or against us" did wonders. Let's be positive ... there's less that 24hs left befiore he's out, and I just hope Obama does a b
118 Post contains links Luv2fly : Pure BRILLIANT! Though NSFW, though on the other hand either was W. Enjoy I know I did and it sums it up nicely and totally. http://www.youtube.com/wa
119 Arrow : Thanks -- but no worries; your posts are among the most educational on this site. The real tragedy, in my view, is that the rationale for war -- the
120 Post contains links Aaron747 : That wasn't the point - the point is that even our allies' opinion of us has soured tremendously under the watch of the outgoing President, and he's
121 WunalaYann : I would venture that it very much depends on your definition of "us". If you define it by "the outgoing Administration", then absolutely yes. But if
122 Seb146 : Ah, yes. The same presentation where Powell presented drawings of moblie chemical labs that Saddam had. Powell passed them off as what BushCo thought
123 EZEIZA : And what about the rest of the quotes? For example: Has, not Had. Present, not past. good try though
124 Baroque : " target=_blank>http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-epi...15901 You will be happy that I am not going to describe your post as "disappointing" then!! Qu
125 DXing : Several threads ago in this repeated argument I said that the Iraq had invaded its neighbors twice. The Sudan has not, nor has the Congo. If you can
126 EZEIZA : I stand by what Dick said .. you know, the vice president: I don't know if he was giving an official speech on behalf of the administration, but he d
127 Yellowstone : Huh? He wasn't doing the targeting - he gave money to Palestinian terror groups. Palestinian terror groups don't attack the US, they attack Israel. T
128 WunalaYann : But I am afraid to disappoint - I do not, and did not twist any answers of yours (nor anyone else's). I do take good note of the personal attack thou
129 Baroque : It is part of the subtleties of the English language, one of those irregular verbs. A. He (Saddam) lied B. You (the CIA) based your inaccurate assess
130 Elite : It's not lying. He didn't even know it was faulty. Intelligence from practically everyone was wrong, not just the CIA, but also intelligence agencies
131 Baroque : Curveball ring a bell??? Wiki comments "Curveball's German intelligence handlers saw him as "crazy ... out of control", his friends called him a "con
132 Aaron747 : Nonsense. The Bush administration never pretended to care about the North Korean abductions that have been a seriously disturbing issue to the Japane
133 EZEIZA : Right ... no wonder he got re-elected, if people are still going to buy this circus. So you're telling me that he, nor anyone in his administration d
134 Aaron747 : I believe that to be true. It doesn't make the decision any less wrong, now or at the time.
135 Baroque : So who hid the assessment of Curveball from him? Or did he not want to know anything that might cast doubt on his "plans" - the main plan being to ig
136 Arrow : And that's the nub of what was going on. Anyone who has worked in a high pressure environment, government or corporate, knows what the boss wants. An
137 Baroque : Alas, that is probably true, but it makes them no less culpable, just a different mechanism of getting to a bunch of BS. And that, according to rumou
138 WunalaYann : I believe that to be true, as well. And yet, we voted for him again in 2004. Incomprehensible, in my view. I hope he and his cronies, as well as Rupe
139 Seb146 : Still have not been found. Good try, though.
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