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Over 68000 Jobs Lost In One Day! WTF  
User currently offlinePhoenix9 From Canada, joined Aug 2007, 2546 posts, RR: 8
Posted (5 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2680 times:

CNN is reporting that over 68,000 jobs have been lost on a single day: 26/1/09 and aptly calls it a bloody monday. With millions of jobs gone and millions more on line, seems like shit really has hit the fan. Some would argue that it is the market correcting itself, well so be it....but it better do that FAST!! If this continues, we would be in deep depression and recession would sound like heaven!

Thoughts??


Full article here:

http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/26/news/economy/job_cuts/index.htm

PS: Total 203,720 jobs lost since 2009 began. Table on CNN page.

[Edited 2009-01-26 13:14:19]


Life only makes sense when you look at it backwards.
19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2656 times:



Quoting Phoenix9 (Thread starter):
Thoughts??

You'd better get used to it. It's still a long way down to the bottom, and it will be a long and slow climb back out of the hole. Governments worldwide are throwing money at the problem - unfortunately it's money they don't have, and the ensuing debt is going to cripple them all for a long time to come.

Canada has had more than a decade of fiscal surpluses, and yet will now be in deficit territory for the next 5 years. The US hasn't had a surplus since, oops, Bill Clinton was around -- so try to imagine what that debt hole is going to look like going forward.

And we all collectively did it to ourselves. That's the bad news. There is no good news.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2649 times:



Quoting Phoenix9 (Thread starter):
CNN is reporting that over 68,000 jobs have been lost on a single day: 26/1/09 and aptly calls it a bloody monday. With millions of jobs gone and millions more on line, seems like shit really has hit the fan. Some would argue that it is the market correcting itself, well so be it....but it better do that FAST!! If this continues, we would be in deep depression and recession would sound like heaven!

Thoughts??

Your PS seems relevant, it is being reported here as an estimate of a continuing some large number like 400,000 lost a month going forward.

Wonder how those in the 850 billion bail out figure the banks are going to go with this number of additional unemployed.

So far the correction seems more like companies looking at the trends and correcting their own payrolls - in the direction of DOWN.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10916 posts, RR: 37
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2642 times:

1929 - 2009 exactly 80 years.  Sad


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2592 times:



Quoting Arrow (Reply 1):
Canada has had more than a decade of fiscal surpluses, and yet will now be in deficit territory for the next 5 years.

Snap again re Aus!! Hmmm, we were rather hoping just a couple of years of deficit. But as the sackings in the mining industry roll in, that looks like a fond hope. So you are probably right.


User currently offlineCasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4737 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2579 times:

Well, we are exactly where we put ourselves.

The US is shedding jobs even with record low Fed Rates. The fact that there is no support for creating jobs, is proof that all the Offshoring and Outsourcing plans are nothing but a way to rid the US of it's ability to produce in favor of a Consumer based Economy. Now the problem is that the US isn't consuming as much, and the production costs must be lowered so more US production jobs are lost, and then the US governemt tries to spend cash to get the Unemployed US citizens to Consume, but they can't consume without jobs, and now the cycle will get worse.



Once the Free Trade idiots give up the ship and we revert back to Fair and Balanced trade with tarrifs and taxes for corporations that ship jobs oversees, then the US economy will recover.

Until then with a high dollar, foreclosures, and general consumer loss..... the jobs will keep going bye bye.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinePhoenix9 From Canada, joined Aug 2007, 2546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2570 times:

Not only the jobs are being lost....it is going to stretch the unemployment system to its limits. With millions on line to receive unemployment benefits....is govt going to pay them with the money they don't have??? As others have mentioned above...it is going to get worse before it gets better. With life savings being wiped off due to low markets, many are becoming homeless and can't even afford a proper meal for the day. What's even surprising is....where is the bailout money going??? The $400 or so billion that was put into the economy just disappeared?? used by companies to better their bottom lines??? I hope world leaders think of something soon! Just throwing money into the problem is not going to cut it.

At least in the west we are at a better position....what about the third world countries like Zimbabwae where inflation is in millions of percents. The govt. of Iceland just failed today...FAILED. Larger nations might ride this out...but smallers ones are really going to need some help.



Life only makes sense when you look at it backwards.
User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8692 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2539 times:



Quoting Casinterest (Reply 5):
Well, we are exactly where we put ourselves.

The US is shedding jobs even with record low Fed Rates. The fact that there is no support for creating jobs, is proof that all the Offshoring and Outsourcing plans are nothing but a way to rid the US of it's ability to produce in favor of a Consumer based Economy.

Well, I agree with the first part. But actually if the USA realigns with the world market, we will be fine. "Support for creating jobs" should not be a welfare program. This isn't a Disney theme park, it is a country. We should have actual jobs at actual wages, not fake high wages funded by taxpayer programs.

If our wages are too low to pay for housing, then let the price of housing fall. I think that would be a really really good thing. With low housing prices and cheaper health care, we are a much more cost efficient country. This is great news.

But what you said is 100% correct -- we are exactly where we put ourselves. When we jacked up housing prices too high, it created a manic euphoria. So it was inevitable (we now know) the banks would all collapse and the government would have to reboot them. Lesson learned.

But please, this has nothing to do with offshoring. If anything, this crisis is exactly what we need to lower American wages and increase American cost competitiveness. This will stop the offshoring. Also, falling home prices will help workers live just as well as before, on less money. Those who gambled in real estate values will be burned however. We shouldn't let that box up our future. Our options are still open.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6692 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2505 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 7):
If anything, this crisis is exactly what we need to lower American wages and increase American cost competitiveness. This will stop the offshoring.

No, it won't. American's can't possibly lower their wages enough to be cost competitive with the likes of China and India. And as American's wages decline, we will consume less goods. Less goods means less demand for products made overseas. This means layoffs in places like China/India. Layoffs in those countries will push their wages down too. Bottomline, we will never win in a race to the bottom.


User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7317 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2493 times:
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The article says 71,400 were lost today, but who's counting.

Citigroup celebrated today's news and bought a new $50 million dollar Dassult Falcon 7-X.


link to article

 no 


User currently offlineDtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2471 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 7):
If our wages are too low to pay for housing, then let the price of housing fall. I think that would be a really really good thing. With low housing prices and cheaper health care, we are a much more cost efficient country. This is great news

Great news! Maybe in your world. Lower housing costs will only mean more and more people walking away from their mortgages because the value of their house is less than what they owe. And Health care costs would and will continue to rise as more and more insured people lose their jobs. At the rate we're going, we will be a welfare country before you know it.

Quoting FXramper (Reply 9):
Citigroup celebrated today's news and bought a new $50 million dollar Dassult Falcon 7-X.

Maybe they can hire all the Ford mechanics that had to be laid off when our unbiased Government forced Ford to close their aviation division as part of their loan guarantees, which they didn't take


User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8692 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2409 times:



Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 10):
Lower housing costs will only mean more and more people walking away from their mortgages because the value of their house is less than what they owe.

It's a tricky problem created by an incredibly unwise policy to jack up home prices.

There's no good solution. "government help" to keep home prices high is just one of a number of utterly terrible solutions. I think foreclosure is still a good option for many people. Can't win them all. One family out, another family in.

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 10):
Lower housing costs will only mean more and more people walking away from their mortgages because the value of their house is less than what they owe.

Well it's sort of inevitable. It's not a bad thing, because there is no alternative. We are not rich enough to maintain the high prices we had. That doesn't mean it's possible. Or good. Cheap housing is very important to the American dream.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 8):
American's can't possibly lower their wages enough to be cost competitive with the likes of China and India.

Sure we can. The work Americans do is very valuable, which is why we are so rich. We have nothing to fear from trade. We aren't that far off from having a trade balance.

A neat example. For 2008, Germany had a trade surplus of around 12 billion Euro per month. http://www.bundesbank.de/statistik/s...enwirtschaft_zahlungsbilanz.en.php

Germans seem to be doing just fine trading with India and China!

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 8):
Bottomline, we will never win in a race to the bottom.

Western countries have been trading with India and China since time began. We have always benefitted from that. I think if we had a more socialist system like say Denmark (free health care, free education) we would be more cognizant of how rich we really are. But the voters always vote against that. And I agree, Washington would probably screw that up.

So it's mismanagement that I would cite, not a lack of opportunities or any issue of trade.


User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9188 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2387 times:



Quoting Casinterest (Reply 5):
Once the Free Trade idiots give up the ship and we revert back to Fair and Balanced trade with tarrifs and taxes for corporations that ship jobs oversees, then the US economy will recover.

Well, that makes at least two of us who think this way on here. The Free Traders think these conditions are wonderful, the agenda? Drive down the wages,kill the unions, no matter what the cost. Let us sit back and enjoy it all. It has been a great policy has it not?



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineKirkSeattle From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2358 times:

Unfortunately the week isn't over yet and I'm not being sarcastic. There are a series of companies ready to release earnings this week and I'm sure it's not going to be pretty. I have a feeling the layoff trends will continue to be hard this week and into February.

Seattle, like other cities across the world, has had it's share of layoffs this month and last year. I would remind all you good folks to reach out to those impacted as there was a suicide today near my office.  tombstone 


-Kirk


User currently offlinePhoenix9 From Canada, joined Aug 2007, 2546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2352 times:



Quoting KirkSeattle (Reply 13):
Unfortunately the week isn't over yet and I'm not being sarcastic. There are a series of companies ready to release earnings this week and I'm sure it's not going to be pretty. I have a feeling the layoff trends will continue to be hard this week and into February

I am afraid you are right...this is just the begining. Not only the layoffs....the markets are going to really take the hits....meaning more money is gonig to evaporate!



Life only makes sense when you look at it backwards.
User currently offlineCasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4737 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2347 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 7):
If our wages are too low to pay for housing, then let the price of housing fall. I think that would be a really really good thing. With low housing prices and cheaper health care, we are a much more cost efficient country. This is great news

Our wages are too low to pay for housing, but our wages are too high to afford to keep jobs in the USA.

We have a federal minimum wage of ~ $7 an hour in the USA

The Chinese average wage is $1 an hour
India is close but a little less.

Basically the US workers in Manufacturing, IT and other offshorable jobs are fighting agianst folks who make less than a Fry cook at McDonald's. That is not fair trade.

The US dollar is overvalued for the US worker. It doesn't allow the US to compete. Now that the Tech and Housing bubbles are gone, the underlying weakness of our economy is being exposed.


The folks that claim that people need to move into the "higher skilled" workforce are ignoring the facts that those jobs are going to India and China as well.

IBM , Microsoft, Oracle, Pfizer and others are laying off skilled engineers in favor of offshoring.

GM, Ford, Catapiller, and other manufacturing companies are closing shops in the US and building items in other countries.


When only a few companies offshore they are see as brillant. However when all companies are offshoring, then there is no one left in the US to consume, and mass layoffs ensue. There will be no recovery anytime soon in the USA, becasue the CEO's and their Henchman only know that offshoring is the way to cut costs for hteir companies.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1277 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2302 times:



Quoting Casinterest (Reply 15):
Our wages are too low to pay for housing, but our wages are too high to afford to keep jobs in the USA.

Its sad to see so many people loose their jobs. Especially in this economy where we have another year at least before things will turn around.

But pls stop this talk about wages. Jobs lost now are not going to China, they are lost because the economy is in a downturn.
Its not about wages and competition between countries, China and India is loosing jobs and their factories are producing less at the moment. Its about an economival downturn. They happen about once every ten years and cant come as news to anyone.
Companies, governments and private persons try to save up for them to be better prepared when they arrive.

When the economy turns around jobs might be created overseas to replace the ones lost but that's a discussion we can have in three years time or so when the economy has turned around.

Some might question if its wise to run a budget deficit of about one trillion dollars per year right before a recession. The US did this and they seem to be worse off than anyone else at the moment. Perhaps they as well as everyone else needs to learn to balance their budgets.
The second worst offender seems to be my Britain on this. Our pension liabilities is almost as bad as the ones we see in the US. it will be a horror story for us British when that bomb goes off.

Not all job losses are down to the recession. You must also keep up with competition.
Let me give an example:
Ford bought Volvo Cars but explicitly said they didn't want their hybrid technology since that wasn't what consumers were interested in. It was included in the sale but Ford didn't want it.
Volvo took it back and sold it on to Toyota who today uses it in most of its cars...

If you want someone to blame, don't blame overseas workers. Blame whoever created a system that rewards companies that have a negative balance sheet and a high degree of debt.
Investors urging companies to either pay dividends or put the capital to work. there you have culprits who have destroyed an enormous amount of corporate wealth and knowledge.



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently offlineCasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4737 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2219 times:



Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 16):
But pls stop this talk about wages. Jobs lost now are not going to China, they are lost because the economy is in a downturn.

you have no clue as to what is occurring in the US.


CEO's and VP's are in a CMA mode of operation. They only care about the balance sheet and not about the US economy as a whole.


The only reason the US survived to this point since the Cold War is

1. the Tech Bubble of the 90's and early 2000's and
2. The Housing Bubble of the 2000's

Both were built on inflated woth for products that have since crashed. Both created artificial wealth for the US consumers to Consume with, while their Production jobs were sent to China, India, Mexico, and other locations.


Now the US consumer can no longer get cheap credit, valuations of homes are dropping, but now all the production and serivce industry jobs are in places elsewhere.


So now the US Consumers can't consume as much, the world producer economies (AkA thrid world) can't produce what isn't being consumed, and the world economy is going downhill.


The US can't pull out of it by lowering interest rates and forcing banks to lend more, because the US consumer has no Collateral left, and the jobs are leaving so fast, that there is net job loss. It is a downward spiral.


Free market and advanced economics would state that this should drive the value of the dollar down. However the rest of the world, China included, artificially inflate the value of the dollar, which makes the US worker to expensive to hire. This downturn will continue until production and service industry jobs are brought back to the US and protected.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinePhoenix9 From Canada, joined Aug 2007, 2546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 4 weeks ago) and read 2111 times:

Add another 10,000 to yesterdays count. This is just scary.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/27/news...omy/tuesday_jobs/index.htm?cnn=yes



Life only makes sense when you look at it backwards.
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6692 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 4 weeks ago) and read 2096 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
A neat example. For 2008, Germany had a trade surplus of around 12 billion Euro per month. http://www.bundesbank.de/statistik/s...enwirtschaft_zahlungsbilanz.en.php

Germans seem to be doing just fine trading with India and China!

But they didn't do it by lowering their wages. That's the point I'm making.

I have nothing against free trade, but trying to lower our wages to balance the deficit will not work.


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