Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Bill Clinton Says "Don't Blame Me..."  
User currently offlineMike89406 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1467 posts, RR: 3
Posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 2901 times:

Former President Bill Clinton, defended himself against critics labeling him on Time Magazine's 25 people to blame for the Economy. What does everyone think?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090216/us_time/08599187977400

Mike

[Edited 2009-02-17 06:34:37]

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2727 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 2879 times:

Greenspan said the same thing. Sorry but guilty as charged


OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 2854 times:

It was his administration that pushed banks and mortage companies to lower application standards. In many cases the only way this could be done is through Interest Only loans with the balloon payments after several years. The idea pushed was to flip the house before the balloon payments came due. Well those several years are starting to come due and they can't make the payments and are now defaulting on the loans. Also... look at the 2000 HUD Hearings when Republicans starting asking questions about this very subject...and watch the responses from the Democrats holding the hearings. "How DARE you accuse Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac of doing things that could lead to a collapse" Turn the clock forward 8 years......!!!! Keep in mind... Clinton WAS President at that time.

[Edited 2009-02-17 07:40:25]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8841 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2818 times:

Sorry, but Times' list of 25 is woefully incomplete. Where are people like Chris Dodd and Barney Frank, and a host of other people who either promoted or defended the idea of making loans to people who could not qualify for traditional mortgages? And while Gramm deserve some of the blame for his exemption of credit default swaps, he certainly does not belong at the top of the heap. Hank Paulson - hardly the most competant of Treasury Secretaries (at least he could figure out his taxes), but his short career had no time to set off any of the building blocks of the meltdown, the roots of which go all the way back to the 60s (the advent of credit cards and the idea that you could spend money you did not have).

BTW, have you heard that your credit card interest might be popping up to 30% or more? Now there's predatory banking for you.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11659 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2815 times:



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 2):
2000 HUD Hearings when Republicans starting asking questions about this very subject

I find it very inetersting that everyone is so willing to pin the blame on Clinton, but no one is pinning the blame on Bush or the Republicans who controlled Congress for how many years and could have acutally reinstated any of that. Didn't Congressional Republicans also have to approve the changes to the rules as well? No one is blaming them. Can someone point out the "liberal media bias" in all of this and all of the news of late?



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2797 times:

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 4):

I find it very inetersting that everyone is so willing to pin the blame on Clinton, but no one is pinning the blame on Bush or the Republicans who controlled Congress for how many years and could have acutally reinstated any of that.

While true.... which way did Congress vote....??? In many of the years you're talking about the majority was only a vote or two and several on the Republicans are RINO's. There are plenty to blame... look at the average Americans credit card debt... and how many each of us have. We, just like our Gov't are spending way outside our means. Sure I'd love to have a 200K dollar house, but right now I can't afford one. Sure I'd love to have a Benz C32.. but I can't afford one. Sure I'd love a HiDef flat screen.. but it's not in my budget. The greed of CEO's that destroy one company and then go to a second and the idiot Board allow him in the door.... and destroy that company.. and all along walks out the door with a golden parachute from BOTH companies

[Edited 2009-02-17 09:15:49]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11659 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week ago) and read 2768 times:



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 5):
In many of the years you're talking about the majority was only a vote or two and several on the Republicans are RINO's.

This just tells me the Republican party of today does not care about the average American. They still moved and worked in lock-step for the best interest of corporations and their own and not for the blue collar/working people of this country.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week ago) and read 2759 times:



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 6):

Aah what that means is although the Republicans held the majority in number, they did not hold the majority in votes. RINO is Republican In Name Only...meaning they actually hold the values of the Democratic party...so by your comment you are says the Democrats are a party of the big corporation....which most will tell you is not true.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11659 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2704 times:



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 7):
Aah what that means is although the Republicans held the majority in number, they did not hold the majority in votes.

Your post makes no sense. If a party has the majority, they are the majority party. If they do not get legislation passed, it is because some within their own party decide to vote against it. There are some that are theoretical RINO Republicans, meaning whichever way the wind is blowing, they could be Republicans or Dems. Then, there are those that actually do what the majority of their constituants believe to be right. They are also placed in the RINO category. I have much more respect for elected officials like that than those that vote in their party's best interest. Remember Lieberman? I have no respect for him and, IMO, the people of CT should have thrown him out when they had the chance. McCain, when he was a middle-of-the-road type, was respectable. When he was running for president, I think he let too many people run things instead of him telling them all to take a hike.

Back on topic: The Republicans could have, at any point, slowed everyone down and explained how and why this was all a bad idea. But, not wanting to be obstructionists and not wanting oversite and checks and balances on corporations and banks by government, they decided it was a good idea to let banks go loan to anyone anytime. Yes, it happened under Clinton, but it could have been stopped at any time by Republicans. They, too, need to share in the blame.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2692 times:



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 8):
If they do not get legislation passed, it is because some within their own party decide to vote against it.

Or the minority vote used the fillibuster.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8841 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2682 times:



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 8):
If a party has the majority, they are the majority party. If they do not get legislation passed, it is because some within their own party decide to vote against it.

The Republican majority in the Senate was never more than 51 or 52 seats as I recall - far less than the 60 required to pass major legislation.

Like it or not, the Republican Senate was always far more bipartisan than our current Senate, by necessity. They needed to win over a substantial number of Dems to do anything. Getting 10 or so is exponentially harder than getting 2 or 3.

It also means that it was impossible to do anything that the Democrats were seriously opposed to - such as Fanny/Freddie oversight reform, to name a key example.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39887 posts, RR: 74
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2678 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
The Republican majority in the Senate was never more than 51 or 52 seats as I recall - far less than the 60 required to pass major legislation.

 redflag 
The Republicans had 55 Senate seats after the 1996 election.
Also, there are/were at least 10 conservative Democrats from the south, upper plains and rural west that often sided with the Republicans.

Quoting Mike89406 (Thread starter):
What does everyone think?

To quote Phil Gramm, this is a nation of whinners!  Silly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AKrVptIdwQ



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8841 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2671 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
The Republicans had 55 Senate seats after the 1996 election.

Not at the same time as a Republican President.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39887 posts, RR: 74
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2665 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
The Republicans had 55 Senate seats after the 1996 election.

Not at the same time as a Republican President.

Thank God!

However, when Bush had 51 Republicans in the Senate, you had Landrieu, Breaux, Nelson, Conrad, Dorgan, Lincoln, Miller, Hollings, Graham and Lieberman that would often side with the Republicans.
The problem with the Republicans was that they didn't have the moderates on board.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineP3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2651 times:

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 6):
This just tells me the Republican party of today does not care about the average American. They still moved and worked in lock-step for the best interest of corporations and their own and not for the blue collar/working people of this country.

I am sick and tired of people painting Republicans as heartless and evil. I'll paint with a broad brush, see how you like it: How many snowmobiles, ATV's and '88 Camaros did the lunch pail Johnnies buy with their stimulus checks? How "low brow" does union leadership look when they wear a golf shirt with the union logo underneath a denim jacket with an even bigger union logo which usually covers an even bigger beer belly during press conferences (that looks professional  .

Not everyone can go to college, not everyone can own a house, not everyone can make six figures. As Americans, we have the right to pursue those things, not the right to have them.

Rant over.

[Edited 2009-02-17 19:15:44]


"Did he say strap in or strap on?"
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8908 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2634 times:



Quoting P3Orion (Reply 14):
am sick and tired of people painting Republicans as heartless and evil. I'll paint with a broad brush, see how you like it: How many snowmobiles, ATV's and '88 Camaros did the lunch pail Johnnies buy with their stimulus checks? How "low brow" does union leadership look when they wear a golf shirt with the union logo underneath a denim jacket with an even bigger union logo which usually covers an even bigger beer belly during press conferences (that looks professional .

They may not be all heartless and evil, most certainly are in the pocket of the wealthy. I look at my financial worth, and dammed somebody has been doing Evil, who was it power when all this was allowed? Who controlled the watchdog functions of the government? Now the unions wearing those horrible shirts, that is all we can afford now after eight years of Republican policy. The beer bellys are also because they cannot afford wine and Champagne like the Republicans.  Sad  Sad



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineCairo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2604 times:

Sure, Clinton gets some blame for any seeds planted during his watch.

But, Bush gets even more blame for not starting to correct things 4, 3, and 2 years ago when the seeds had grown to weeds and eventually monsters - especially since his own family was so intimately involved in the S&L scandal which wiped out a big part of the US financial world 20 years ago.

Cairo


User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11659 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2558 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
Like it or not, the Republican Senate was always far more bipartisan than our current Senate, by necessity.

More because they wanted their legislation passed under a Democratic president. They HAD to be bipartisan. Under Bush, it wasn't so important for a while. Now, they are screaming and crying because they are getting a taste of their own medicine.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 9):
Or the minority vote used the fillibuster.

And, to get anything done, the majority party can threaten to use the "nuclear option."

Quoting P3Orion (Reply 14):
I am sick and tired of people painting Republicans as heartless and evil.

I am sick and tired of people painting Democrats as terrorists who want nothing more than overhtrow the American government and telling everyone that Democrat is the exact same thing as a liberal which is the exact same thing as a terrorist and, no matter what label is used, the all are athiests and want nothing more than abort every single fetus and burn every single bible and turn every single kindergartner into a sex fiend and expect no one to work and have the government hand out every thing from iPods to cell phones to plasma TVs to food to houses. Talk about painting with a broad brush.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineStarbuk7 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 599 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2485 times:



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 17):
Quoting P3Orion (Reply 14):
I am sick and tired of people painting Republicans as heartless and evil.

I am sick and tired of people painting Democrats as terrorists

Both parties are crap right now, and I feel that neither party cares about their people, just their own jobs. If the whole country would get together and vote out every incumbent and elect some new people into office we might see some change going the way that the American public feels.


User currently offlineP3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2473 times:



Quoting Starbuk7 (Reply 18):
I feel that neither party cares about their people

I think both parties care only about their political agenda, or, making the other side of the aisle look bad; over what is best for the country. I am a Republican and, to me, the Party has lost it's way and bowed to the Christian right.



"Did he say strap in or strap on?"
User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11659 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2409 times:



Quoting Starbuk7 (Reply 18):
Both parties are crap right now, and I feel that neither party cares about their people, just their own jobs. If the whole country would get together and vote out every incumbent and elect some new people into office we might see some change going the way that the American public feels.

More than that, I feel more parties should get involved. I feel I have to vote Democrat to have my voice heard. They do not represent me, neither do Republicans. But, I side with Dems because I feel that is the only way I can be heard and, out of the two parties, they are much closer to my view of things. If we all got together and voted for anyone BUT Democrats or Republicans, I think things would shift to the better.

Quoting P3Orion (Reply 19):
I am a Republican and, to me, the Party has lost it's way and bowed to the Christian right.

And I feel the Dems have shifted to everyone else. They are trying to hard to please everyone that was disenfranchised from the Republican party. It is like corraling cats. There are so many splinter causes within the Democratic party and I feel that is why they have such a hard time getting anywhere. Whereas the Republican party is the party of Christians and "you are either with us or you are a terroist" mentality.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinePSA53 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3069 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2399 times:



Quoting Cairo (Reply 16):
But, Bush gets even more blame for not starting to correct things 4, 3, and 2 years ago when the seeds had grown to weeds and eventually monsters

Bush did try. Bush sent up warning flags of potential housing meltdown as far back 2002,to my knowledge.It was Barney Franks and the Demos, who blocked any correction attempt from Bush and said "everything is fine"It was on a video from FOX,I'm trying find and review.

But there is plenty of blame to go around.



Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
User currently offlinePSA53 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3069 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2388 times:

Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPSDnGMzIdo



Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
User currently offlineCairo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2380 times:



Quoting Starbuk7 (Reply 18):
If the whole country would get together and vote out every incumbent and elect some new people into office we might see some change going the way that the American public feels.

*****PERFECT*****

The politicians in Washington all care about one thing only - keeping their jobs. Some solutions I hope we consider:

1. term limits
2. direct voting on legislation - every voter gets a secureID and internet access and votes directly on legislation
3. drafting legislators the way we do jury duty, with certain enhanced mimimum qualifications, but with great pay and the legal right to one day return to their old job

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 20):
There are so many splinter causes within the Democratic party and I feel that is why they have such a hard time getting anywhere

True, but this may be a good thing.

The Democrats, I think, are trying to become purely pragmatic with no set-in-stone ideology or agenda ----> do what works. This also means that lots of different ideas are tossed around and debate is enhanced beacause their is no dogma do fall back on.

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 21):
Bush did try. Bush sent up warning flags of potential housing meltdown as far back 2002,to my knowledge.It was Barney Franks and the Demos, who blocked any correction attempt from Bush

Explain to me how you can claim Bush tried but was some how thwarted when the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress?

Cairo


User currently offlinePSA53 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3069 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2371 times:



Quoting Cairo (Reply 23):
Quoting PSA53 (Reply 21):
Bush did try. Bush sent up warning flags of potential housing meltdown as far back 2002,to my knowledge.It was Barney Franks and the Demos, who blocked any correction attempt from Bush

Explain to me how you can claim Bush tried but was some how thwarted when the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress?

Like I said,there's plenty of blame to go around and human nature is to thwart verbal warnings of an alarmist when times are good in any situation.But the main coarse in the last election was Bush's economy meltdown and to blame the Republicans..The mainstream media would never show you the Democratic party viewpoint from a adverse manner.And that's not correct.



Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
25 Seb146 : That still does not point to a particular talking point or speech or anything Bush said to ask for help for the current crisis. Also, there are plent
26 Dreadnought : LOL, you are starting to sound like a conservative. The movement is based on a distrust of government. Without 60 seats in the Senate, you don't real
27 Tommy767 : That might have been the mindset back in 2002/2003 during the early days of the 'patriot act' but it's not now. The media is totally on the side of t
28 Seb146 : Oh, no. It still continues today. Not one day goes by that I don't hear some conservative calling for Dems to just shut up and take it because Republ
29 Tango-Bravo : The point I was hoping someone would make... The Republicans had 12 years as the majority party in both houses of Congress plus 6 years with a Republ
30 Dreadnought : If you listen to Limbaugh (I'll pick him out because everyone else does) and say that he calls people "wrong and terrorists and Communists" without b
31 UAL747 : I blame trash TV and MTV........and Mylie Cyrus. Advertising and Idolizing people has gotten way too out of hand. The actual American viewer thinks th
32 Tango-Bravo : Which is why they are not broke -- and from all accounts exceptions to what typically happens to people who inherit large amounts of money or win mil
33 Seb146 : And that is okay? I disagree with what you believe so you will be dismissed in the most damaging way possible? I am very much against one-party rule,
34 Cairo : You may perceive Republicans that way, which may in your mind make you align with the Republicans, but Bush set new records for governent size and de
35 Dreadnought : If it's true, yes. What are you talking about? Are we not allowed to be descriptive? When Helen Thomas refers to Al Qaeda as "so-called terrorists",
36 WunalaYann : May I ask why you put a "sarcastic" smiley at the end of Cairo's point, when he is only stating the same view on a similar topic, with which you seem
37 Dreadnought : Because of the cliche catch phrases he uses. Not being pro-gay does not make us anti-gay. We are not anti-immigrant - the catch phrase conveniently l
38 WunalaYann : Agreed. Disagreed. Obama has been fear-mongering about the economy which, while a very serious matter for millions of people, is still in the realm o
39 Cairo : Well, I am from Texas, and I can say that in Texas G Bush showed none of the beliefs we associate with the Neocons. I am genuinely saddened that he g
40 Seb146 : Bush: "You are either with us or with the terrorists." Conservative commentators ran with this and parroted this while wrapping themselved in the fla
41 Dreadnought : That is not the same as calling someone a terrorist, as you claim. I have never heard any such thing. You are making this up. Show me a transcript wh
42 WunalaYann : And your comment sounds very much like a hyperbole. There is a (colossal) difference between (political) ritual suicide and admitting one's (colossal
43 Seb146 : So, on the invasion of Iraq and the subsequent occupation on the grounds of "war on terror" had a theme of "If you don't support the war in Iraq, you
44 Post contains links Baroque : Dear UAL747 I would like to road test your kind suggestion as early as possible. I expect an urgent communication telling me the details! Glad you as
45 Seb146 : I have questions for all the people who think the "poor" people never should have gotten these "upside down mortgages" in the first place: Who told th
46 Cairo : I think the 2 obvious implications your post brings up are: 1 > banks and borrowers SHARE the blame for mortgages to people who can't afford them 2 >
47 Tango-Bravo : Are you serious? Or does this mean that the act is listed as a non-terrorist act because it is, instead, murder...or what? Whatever the case, a stran
48 Baroque : Not my list so like you I need to interpret, but yes I suppose it is murder but not terrorism. Presumably it would be terrorism if you informed her y
49 Seb146 : In the early 1980s, there was a cult that moved to central Oregon. The Rajneeshes. They bought a compound, a few DC-3s for charters to their "resort"
50 Ual777 : CRA. Banks were fined if they didn't issue enough mortgages to low-income borrowers. It then got out of control.
51 Baroque : Great story. I knew about Rajneesh but not that interesting episode. I have always had an aversion to lettuce and one time I broke that rule and ate
52 Klaus : Trigger but not cause. If the unregulated derivatives market hadn't pumped the sewage away to "somewhere", the banks would have had to stop lending a
53 Baroque : Thanks for the ?metaphor!!! Pass the welly boots and where the hell is that gas mask?
54 Seb146 : There is a rest stop outside of The Dalles that relates a small island of rock in the middle of the Columbia River. Back in the day, the local native
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
60 Minutes And "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" posted Mon Dec 17 2007 12:13:18 by FlyDeltaJets87
I Don't Understand "the Grace Of God" posted Tue Dec 11 2007 14:33:48 by MaverickM11
Naacp Says Elections In Venezuela "Free & Fair" posted Wed Nov 28 2007 05:54:11 by Miamiair
How Does "don't Ask/don't Tell" Work, Anyway? posted Wed Mar 14 2007 01:34:45 by 727LOVER
Dems Line Up Against "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" posted Thu Mar 8 2007 03:17:35 by AeroWesty
Democratic Corruption: Clinton's "Sandy Berger" posted Wed Jan 10 2007 14:21:34 by OU812
Report: Author Hersh Says Army "Most Murderous" posted Thu Nov 2 2006 15:07:08 by AerospaceFan
Musicians, Don't Buy From "Musician's Friend" posted Wed Sep 6 2006 14:40:10 by LHMARK
"Don't Ask, Don't Surf"- Gay Porn Airborne? posted Sat Jan 28 2006 06:29:03 by LHMARK
Hugo Chavez Says "who Cares"? posted Wed Aug 24 2005 14:58:45 by TACAA320