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Israel Plans 73,300 Housing Units In The West Bank  
User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 4089 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5536 times:

israel plans 73,300 new housing units in the West Bank...


15 000 has already gotten approval.


If the plans go ahead with the rest, the amount of settlements in the occupied territories in the West Bank will double.


http://www.peacenow.org/updates.asp?rid=0&cid=5991

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/uriks/article2955953.ece

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/midtosten/artikkel.php?artid=537379

167 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDoona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3772 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5526 times:

Never thought I'd say this, but I miss Ariel Sharon a little...

Cheers
Mats



Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3763 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5509 times:

Neither Hamas nor those right-wing people want peace. It seems they only get their power in elections if they continue that madness...

User currently offlineRaffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1718 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5477 times:

Building this on occupied land will no doubt lead to more resentment and anger from the Palestinians. Why are the Israelis building there?? It's illegal.


Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlineSwissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5452 times:

I do not know who is smarter here...... just another step for Israel in the wrong direction.....

User currently offlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3552 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5424 times:
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Wait till all of the above are called anti Semitic. Those new housing are illegal. they are built on land not owned by the Israeli government. Oh Israel does not abide by international laws unless it suits her. Nothing new here. Peace is disappearing fast.


I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5398 times:

IMO the Israeli's and the Jordanians need to set the West Bank aside for the Palestinians. The Trans-Jordan was their natural home anyway and it seems fit they should be given that land for their own. Both the Israeli's and Jordanians should do everything they can to help them settle there and set up. As long as Hamas does not come along with them the Jordanians and Israeli's should do everything they can to help.
Israel had an opportunity to give that land back years ago and for one reason or another failed to do it. IMO Now is the time to do so. The settlers will have to decide whether to stay on (under Palestinian rule) or move, they knew when they located there that there was always risk. I hope there is enough of a moderate voice in the new coalition to accomplish this.

AND in the event such a miracle should happen---------I hope for the sake of the everyday Palestinian people that----just for once ------they will not elect terrorists to represent them!
Hamas needs to move to Iran where they will feel at home.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3552 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5385 times:
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Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 6):
Hamas needs to move to Iran where they will feel at home.

Or Hamas can dissolve it's military wing(s) and become a political movement. I think this is a better solution.
Same thing can apply to Hezbollah in Lebanon.



I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlineJM017 From Jamaica, joined Jun 2002, 1227 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5383 times:



Quoting Raffik (Reply 3):
Building this on occupied land will no doubt lead to more resentment and anger from the Palestinians. Why are the Israelis building there?? It's illegal.

And any response from the Palesitnians will be well-deserved.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 5):
Wait till all of the above are called anti Semitic. Those new housing are illegal. they are built on land not owned by the Israeli government. Oh Israel does not abide by international laws unless it suits her. Nothing new here. Peace is disappearing fast.

I don't see how anyone could call the criticisms here anti-semitic. But i know what you are saying. I support Israel's right to exist and defend itself. But this to me is a clear sign that there are some Israelis who in fact do not desire peace.

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 2):
Neither Hamas nor those right-wing people want peace.

This, sadly, is my final assessment too.



"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
User currently offlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3552 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5365 times:
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Quoting JM017 (Reply 8):
I support Israel's right to exist and defend itself.

Believe or not i do to. But peace needs both sides, and at this moment my hopes are not high.



I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9292 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5355 times:

It is amazing, it is never ending from both sides. Someone is always stirring the pot. Israel and the opposing sides do it constantly. Obama is in, let us stir it up. Like a merry-go-round, around and around we go.


It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineJM017 From Jamaica, joined Jun 2002, 1227 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5337 times:



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 9):
But peace needs both sides, and at this moment my hopes are not high.

I honestly had some hope, until this plan (or one like it) was mentioned a while ago. And then came the election. The implications of a Likud win was clear to all. Still, that's pretty much what happened. Yeah, I have no hope either. Can't have peace unless both sides want it. And actions speak louder than words.



"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20340 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5305 times:



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 5):
Wait till all of the above are called anti Semitic.

All of the above are anti-semitic. And furthermore, the OP is a Norwegian, and thus, as I believe we established in another thread, is a member of a barbaric and backward society.

Remember, any and all criticisms of Israel and/or Israeli policy is anti-semitic. This is because there was a Holocaust againt the Jews 70 years ago. Thus, the Jews can do no wrong. By the transitive argument, nor can Israel.

You are all a bunch of Nazis. And you all hate bunny rabbits and like to club baby seals for fun.

(And no, this post isn't serious. However, the following is: I am disgusted with Israel and I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't time for the UN to actually start taking military action against Israel to force them to stop this nonsense).


User currently offlineDoona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3772 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5288 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
And you all hate bunny rabbits and like to club baby seals for fun.

I, for one, actually prefer to club my baby seals with a bunny rabbit.

Cheers
Mats



Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
User currently offlineAirxliban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4518 posts, RR: 53
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5260 times:

The last few months' happenings in Israel/Palestine have been disconcerting to say the least. First Israel takes advantage of a lame duck presidency in the US in order to unleash a war and destroy Gaza using US weapons, cause unprecedented death and destruction, then withdraw and leave the rest of the world to pay to reconstruct what the they flattened - all during the midst of a financial crisis.

And now after all that they are going to push ahead with constructing settlements on occupied land - in an attempt to thwart any future peace agreement. Who wants to believe that Israel has any interest in peace now?



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineCairo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5250 times:



Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
If the plans go ahead with the rest, the amount of settlements in the occupied territories in the West Bank will double.



Quoting Raffik (Reply 3):
Why are the Israelis building there??



Quoting Swissy (Reply 4):
I do not know who is smarter here

I am first and foremost against my taxes (American) going to Israel and I question the validity of creating Israel at the end of WW2 in Palestine.

However, I actually think the Israelis are smart to do this. Yes, it will piss off the Palestinians, but world attention is still focused on their role as victims in the Gaza mess, so these new settlements will probably get less attention. Although the world had no problem displacing 10s of 1000s Palestinains for the new Israelis in the 1940s, the more Israelis who live in the West Bank the greater Israel's argument that it should be under Israel's control.

Cairo


User currently offlineVictrola From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5227 times:

If I were the Palestinians, I would welcome Israeli settlements all over the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem.

The more spread out the Israeli settlements are, the less of a possibility there will be for a 2 state solution. It will become impossible to partition the land in any practical manner.

If this were to occur, and given current demographic trends, the Israelis would soon find themselves a minority in their own country and Israel as a Jewish state would be doomed.


User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3763 posts, RR: 29
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5222 times:

I do support Israel, as well. In fact, I supported the Gaza operation to some extent, but these new settlements do not help peace at all...

User currently offlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3552 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5221 times:
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Quoting Victrola (Reply 16):
the Israelis would soon find themselves a minority in their own country and Israel as a Jewish state would be doomed.

Israel policy is to build new housings so they could absorb more immigrants. This way they will make sure they are never a minority. They are smart.



I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5218 times:

This crap never stops. I'm also fairly disgusted with Israel at the moment, basically for the operations in Gaza that happened not too long ago and the huge amounts of death that occurred on the Palestinian side vs. Israeli. 13 deaths from Israel and 1300 for Gaza. Something like that. And 8 of the 13 were combat soldiers from Israel.


No wonder their airliners have to be guarded by tanks on the runways. These settlements are just a slap in the face after these people just buried their children.

You know, this sort of reminds me of Nazi Germany. I mean, didn't the Nazi's kill millions of Jews all throughout Germany and Eastern Europe then take their homes and possessions and just moved right in like the place was a furnished apartment ready to move in?

-or-

They made the jews move into ghettos while the non-jews lived in their houses. History repeats itself again. While not on the grand scale as the Nazi's, it's just too eerily similar.

Also, I have this question, what, if anything, strategically does Israel really mean to the rest of the world anymore? We are friends with everyone around them practically except Iran. We actually have much more to gain from Iran than Israel. Israel acts like a petulant child of the western world who wants a constant handout even when she's bad. It's like the Veruca Salt of states IMHO.


UAL


User currently offlineCadet985 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1670 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5205 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
I am disgusted with Israel and I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't time for the UN to actually start taking military action against Israel to force them to stop this nonsense).

Why should Israel listen to the UN? The UN has never done anything for the benefit of Israelis (okay, I'll give you 1948). Honestly, Israel should pull out of the UN. They are the only country guaranteed of never holding a seat on the security council, and no matter what Israel does, they are wrong. Israel could be attacked with a nuclear bomb. They retaliate in kind, and they are the bad guys Also, the UN has no legal standing. They are a non governmental organization, so they cannot do anything to Israel. Maybe you'll suggest imposing sanctions. Yeeeeeeah...that'll work.....Israel and the US do a lot of business, and just like is the case with Israel, the UN couldn't do squat to anyone violating sanctions.

Marc


User currently offlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3552 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5196 times:
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Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 20):
Why should Israel listen to the UN? The UN has never done anything for the benefit of Israelis (okay, I'll give you 1948). Honestly, Israel should pull out of the UN. They are the only country guaranteed of never holding a seat on the security council, and no matter what Israel does, they are wrong. Israel could be attacked with a nuclear bomb. They retaliate in kind, and they are the bad guys Also, the UN has no legal standing. They are a non governmental organization, so they cannot do anything to Israel. Maybe you'll suggest imposing sanctions. Yeeeeeeah...that'll work.....Israel and the US do a lot of business, and just like is the case with Israel, the UN couldn't do squat to anyone violating sanctions.

With this logic, then why will Iran stop it's nuclear programs, why did Syria pull out of Lebanon, why did the UN recognize Israel? You need to live in this big world. If Israel withdraw from the UN she will be very isolated from the rest of the world. Politics is not a kids game. Good enough? If and i say if ever there were sanctions against Israel the USA should and i repeat should abide with those sanctions.



I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlineVictrola From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5190 times:



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 18):
Israel policy is to build new housings so they could absorb more immigrants. This way they will make sure they are never a minority. They are smart.

I'm not sure what the net immigrant rate is into Israel these days. I would think that all the Jews who want to live in Israel are probably already there. As tensions mount in that part of the world, Israel will look less and less attractive as a place to immigrate to. Furthermore, there seems to be a lot of Israelis who have left Israel to live elsewhere. We have quite a few in Los Angeles. So I am doubtful that net Jewish immigration would be able to change the current demographic trends in the area.

Perhaps someone else out there could shed some light on this question.


User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5183 times:



Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 20):
Israel should pull out of the UN. They are the only country guaranteed of never holding a seat on the security council, and no matter what Israel does, they are wrong. Israel could be attacked with a nuclear bomb. They retaliate in kind, and they are the bad guys Also, the UN has no legal standing. They are a non governmental

You are exactly right. Israel will ALWAYS be held to a different standard than any other country in the world JUST because she is Jewish.

Quoting Cairo (Reply 15):
Although the world had no problem displacing 10s of 1000s Palestinains for the new Israelis in the 1940s

The British offered the Palestinians a better piece of land than the Jews got, but the Palestinians refused it because the rest of the Arab world convinced them that they "would push all the Jews into the sea" and all the land would be available for the Arabs.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 19):
You know, this sort of reminds me of Nazi

There is absolutely NO comparison that even comes close.

Anti-semitism is not a joke. Only anti-semites would try to make a joke out of it. Some of the last posts on this thread wreak of anti-semitism. When hatred of Jewish people shadows the ability to be objective in a political discussion than clearly there is a problem.
And, news flash, self-hating Jews can also be anti-semites.
Remember that if you hate ------there is someone else who hates you for much the same reasons.

I am idealistic enough to hope that peaceful solutions will be found so that all involved can co-exist.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5160 times:



Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 23):
There is absolutely NO comparison that even comes close.

I wasn't joking. I'm not anti-semitic either. But, it is eerily similar to me at least of what the Nazi's did to the Jews. I do not hate Jews or Muslims, I have many Jewish friends and I know the Holocaust is not a joke and it's very sad indeed. But the hatred has to stop and you'd think the Israelis, being direct objects of hatred not too long ago would have strayed from that path in all forms of life, including politics and war.

UAL


25 Swissy : I would call that the post of the day....... and I agree with you Cheerios,
26 Windy95 : How about your taxes going to any country? Hillary Promised the Palestinians $900 million yesterday. At this point and time we need to stop all outfl
27 QANTAS077 : you for real or what?
28 ImperialEagle : I agree. However, in this instance,what you don't seem to get , is that this is not about hatred. It is about national defense. Most Israeli's want p
29 UAL747 : I'll just leave it with the fact that we both have differing opinions about what Israel stands for, etc. Been around here too long to get too deep int
30 SOBHI51 : The west bank is Palestinian land.The people in Gaza are also Palestinians, so they are the same people. Because the Jews did suffer under the Nazi r
31 Cairo : Unfortunately the politicians think of such amounts as trivial - 900 million is merely a rounding error in the new government spending orgy. Hillary
32 WunalaYann : I totally disagree. But even if you were right, then you could reverse your proposition and say that Israel would always hold other countries to a di
33 Baroque : As QF077 writes, but alas the answer is yes that seems to be real, and this thread was doing so nicely with many constructive posts. IE it might be be
34 MD11Engineer : The onlydifference is that while HAMAS, which refuses to recognise Israel, rules the Gazastrip and has it's support there, the West Bank is being rul
35 Cairo : That's just mental masturbation which allows you to believe your enemies hate you for who you are instead of what you do. It's comforting to believe
36 WarRI1 : I take exception to being called anti-semitic. I did not make my reply favoring either side. I just wonder about the timing of this latest project. T
37 Post contains links AGM100 : http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_...gent_Refugee_Migration_Needs_Gaza/ Well this may open up some territory for more settlement. Interesting , I wo
38 Baroque : Whoa there. Did you not read the full post of DocL? For a start DocL has a track record of not accusing anyone of being anti-semitic and second his p
39 Post contains links WunalaYann : You mean besides actually creating their country? 1) Because it is a member of the UN. 2) For all intents and purposes, Israel does not listen to the
40 NorthstarBoy : I apologize if this is off topic, but maybe we can inject some historical perspective and lay the blame for this current situation where it belongs, n
41 SOBHI51 : So far do not see such a move from Israel. Yes i can see your point, but is the answer here is to take more land? That will make the problem more com
42 Post contains links Baroque : Agreed, it is a nice summary but towards the end starts to miss a major factor. The "hard work" is certainly there, but a lot of it is being subvente
43 NorthstarBoy : I agree with you, the answer is not for Israel to take more land. i was merely putting the problem in a historical perspective. there are so many peo
44 ImperialEagle : Kind of like the aboriginal people of many different countries felt as immigrants escaping oppression from different parts of the world arrived on th
45 SOBHI51 : Well i will gamble and answer Jerusalem. As for currency the following is what i found. But please notice that the coins were written in Arabic, Engl
46 Cairo : This great attitude is what keeps Israel in a perpetual state of war and the world's biggest terrorist target - 60 years and counting... It seems you
47 NAV20 : I don't think there's any question of 'can't,' Northstarboy. But they certainly 'won't.' Apart from anything else, the people living in the areas tha
48 Baroque : In addition to all their other pioneering work on irrigation, I now learn that the Arabs must surely have been the first nomadic society to employ irr
49 Post contains links NAV20 : Hey guys! Here's the first tangible sign that the new US government intends to bring the Israelis 'to heel.' "U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham C
50 Dreadnought : LOL, they just don't get it, do they. The current hardline government got elected for exactly that reason. Israelis looked at the new US president an
51 NAV20 : Fair enough, Dreadnought. Except that, if the United States doesn't like what they're doing, the question arises of what they're going to use for mon
52 Cairo : Let's don't jump to conclusions too early, and I think what we want is a fair and balanced approach (to borrow a phrase...) which values each side as
53 Dreadnought : Israel's international credit rating is high - they don't even need the US debt guarantees it usually has - in fact traditionally they never use them
54 N229nw : And the Israelis voted in their droves for Likud and even Lieberman's party so we will have Netanyahu's government now, and Sharon's before...Time to
55 WarRI1 : My mistake, obviously I did not read the last paragraph. I only saw the anti-semitic line and saw a little Red. My mistake, thanks for pointing it ou
56 Post contains links NAV20 : Not according to this. As far as I can see, the USA is currently giving them both the money to build settlements AND the money to build weapons. At a
57 AGM100 : Still just amazing to me the number of people on here (and the world) so anti Israeli. If it is all just in the effort to highlight some great injusti
58 Baroque : Probably because nobody at all tries to defend other indefensibles such as Zimbabwe and Sudan. Does that help?
59 AGM100 : Cause and effect I would say ... so many protesters and terrorists on the side of the Muslims ... someone has to stand up for the other side I guess.
60 SOBHI51 : Could you define so many. Is that hundreds, thousands, millions or all of the Muslims?
61 Baroque : The other reason might be that once Konfrontasi had been defeated and E Timor had been given independence, Israel is the most obviously expansionist s
62 AGM100 : No, I was not even referring to Muslims. I expect Muslims to protest and hate the Jews.. its just that way. I am referring to all the others who just
63 Baroque : Er no. The northern Sudanese Islamists (there are not many southern Sudanese Islamists) might be all sorts of things, but expansionist only in terms o
64 SOBHI51 : Sorry but did not understand this one. I am Muslim and i do not hate the Jews. I do not like what the Israeli governments are doing and i protest pro
65 Aaron747 : I hate Israeli policy, especially anything that isn't outright dismantling and retraction of the settlements. I also hate the double-standards in Isr
66 Baroque : Hmmm. Very interesting. Are they the same? If not the same, why in the one bundle in terms of sentence construction? Perhaps you could tell us what a
67 Cpd : It's just ridiculous - and does nothing to help the causes of peace. It's nothing but provocative and designed to stir up conflict. Absolutely appall
68 NAV20 : Let's get that straight, AGM100....... To you, judging by that paragraph, the words 'Israeli' and 'Jew' appear to be interchangeable. To most people
69 Cairo : It's not that they're Jewish, that is irrelevant. It's the fact that this situation has held the world hostage to terrorism for 35+ years...From the
70 AGM100 : No , but they are one in the same in many cases. If you fight for the same cause then why should I spend time discerning their character differences.
71 Cairo : Tell me then please, what if the Buddhists had managed to persuade the UN in 1947 that they deserve a homeland called "Israel" in what was then calle
72 AGM100 : Its a good point .... and one that requires some consideration. But since Buddhists never lived there I believe it would be different. If the UN simp
73 Jamincan : I do hold Israel to a higher standard than the surrounding countries, but only because it seems to me to be a relatively modern liberal democracy, and
74 Cairo : All that is perhaps an argument as to why the Jews deserved a homeleand in Palestine, but it doesn't address the contention that Israelis and their c
75 UAL747 : That's the question of the century, and furthermore, what does Israel REALLY mean to us both economically and strategically? Enough to support them?
76 NAV20 : AGM, that's frankly nonsense. Any such 'historic claim' is mythological only. That's not to say that people of the Jewish faith should not have been
77 RJpieces : As a gay man, you should know better than saying this.
78 WunalaYann : Very true. Having the privilege to count a few Jews in my circle of friends, I can tell you that the first people who will take offense to being "int
79 SOBHI51 : What do you know about the Saudi regime to call them backward and fascist? At least we do not attack other people, bomb schools and hospitals. Yes th
80 AGM100 : In comparison to Buddhists ? Why am I bothering with this ... Yes and it is a enigma to me that I have considered , but the President of Iran is my e
81 Baroque : I suspect you are wrong again. Certainly if you was plural you are wrong. It is the actions of Israel. You know like Kill Khalid, stealing land. It i
82 N229nw : I've been too busy to post much on A.net but in general, Aaron747 (a fellow American Jew) says anything I would say on these threads and usually bett
83 Cairo : Wow, somone who is able to look at America's foreign policy in practical concrete terms, weighing costs and benefits in terms of an American loyal to
84 L410Turbolet : You're right. There is no comparison. Hardly any other regime (save for North Korea) is as backward and oppressive as Saudi Arabia. And as far as "no
85 AGM100 : Illegally occupied .... or won militarily ? Israel agreed to pre 67 borders and what happened ?there neighbors attacked them anyways and threatened c
86 Aaron747 : Question of the day. Guaranteed defense contracts, a few nice tax breaks for the localized semiconductor industry, and endless lobbying activity for
87 JJJ : Morocco used to have Jewish members of parliament at the time of their independence ('56). Now that so many left there is just a figurehead jewish ad
88 SOBHI51 : I will give you that they did in the past fund the schools and the madrassa as they are called but for sure they did not intentionally fund any terro
89 SOBHI51 : Guess where the terrorists who destroyed the King David hotel in Jerusalem came from? Guess who was flying the planes which bombed Kana? Guess who bo
90 Dtwclipper : . Yes, but with restrictions: Why not? Are there not gays in the KSA?
91 SOBHI51 : They are all over the world. No? This is a subject i will discuss in private and not on open forum.
92 Dtwclipper : Gays and gay rights etc. are always in the top ten debates here in non-av. Is there a censorship issue in the KSA that you are afraid of?
93 SOBHI51 : I am actually in the States. So fear is not part of it. My personal view on this is that humans have the right to choose there sexual preferences. Bu
94 Aaron747 : That may very well be true, but continuing the funding activities with the knowledge that some money finds its way to those who are indoctrinating ki
95 Dtwclipper : It's not a question of choice or lifestyle preference, it's the way people are. When do hetros decide they are straight?
96 SOBHI51 : All funds are controlled by international banking divisions. If i want to transfer money from my account to anywhere i am asked few questions before
97 Aaron747 : Remember the feelings you had deep inside when you first noticed pretty girls on TV or at school? Same thing for homosexuals...it's literally no diff
98 SOBHI51 : Aaron how about people who goes both ways? Even after living over 24 years in the States i still have mixed feelings about this subject.I do not mind
99 Dtwclipper : Do your gay "friends" know you are straight? If so, don't worry they are not going to put the moves on you. Kind of like Sarah Palin tolerating them?
100 N229NW : I'm sorry but that statement is about as far from the truth as possible. I think Saudi comes in the bottom three of any table of womens' rights colle
101 Aaron747 : You simply don't understand sexuality if you're worried about such things...unless you're giving signals otherwise, that scenario is not going to hap
102 Post contains links Dougloid : Hmmmmmmm....time for some elementary fact checking, Mort. You could at least say "there's a dispute over the numbers." The Peace Now report is not ex
103 Post contains links NAV20 : Looks as if Obama is prepared to stop funding settlements, anyway. "The Americans will demand that Israel avoid creating new facts on the ground that
104 WunalaYann : I know what I read in newspapers (probably not the wisest statement but one has to start somewhere) and there are these wonderful things called Wikip
105 NorthstarBoy : I suppose that depends on the definition of "anywhere else." In Saudi Arabia, a woman can't get a driver's license, unless she happens to be the king
106 Doona : No. Terrorists are terrorists, and protesters are protesters. If one chooses to protest through acts of terror, one is a terrorist, and not simply a
107 Post contains links Dougloid : One of my colleagues at McDonnell Douglas worked as a tech rep for Northrop stationed in Saudi Arabia in the eighties. This is the story he told. One
108 Post contains links Aaron747 : Forgive me for poor taste, but I went straight to the bookmarks folder and pulled out this one, because it was among the first things that came to mi
109 AGM100 : Insult for not agreeing with you ? Israel can never do enough to appease the Muslims ... you know it and I know it. No need to hide behind legalisms
110 Doona : Just so we're clear, burning a flag and yelling is the same as blowing up a bus of innocent civilians? Cheers Mats
111 AGM100 : Of course it is not parallel in scale , but both are directed toward the same end game. I will of course change my point of view ,.. when I see Musli
112 Doona : What "same end" would that be, exactly? And why do you think that is? It's always easier to protest a political reality, rather than a criminal terro
113 SOBHI51 : Is this some kind of Islam phobic? Again the Israel Arab conflict is about land, homes, jobs and future. Arabs (including Christians) and Jews lived
114 SOBHI51 : Under the Gulf kingdom's strict Islamic Sharia laws, the death penalty can be imposed for murder, rape, apostasy, armed robbery, drug trafficking and
115 WunalaYann : Calling me an Israel hater is not a "disagreement". It is an insult. If you cannot tell the difference between disagreeing and insulting, you probabl
116 Dougloid : Can you tell me about the public executions like the one I described and say with a straight face a) that it's done any good and b) why it's a civili
117 SOBHI51 : A) Yes it does do good as crime rate is very low in KSA. Why should a rapist, a murderer or drug trafficker be kept alive? Why should my taxes pay fo
118 NAV20 : Not only does that reveal extreme religious prejudice on your part, AGM100 - it's a mile off the point. Unless you're suggesting that Jews are entitl
119 Post contains links WunalaYann : I fundamentally oppose death penalty and consider it absolutely uncivilised. There you go. Unfortunately, a low crime rate, while highly valuable, is
120 Dtwclipper : Are you not the one who always says this is about Israelis and not Jews?
121 NAV20 : I was addressing a question to AGM100, Dtwclipper. Who clearly sees the whole thing as a religious war.
122 Dtwclipper : Then you need to clarify yourself, as you have always stated it is an Israeli issue and not Jewish one.
123 PIA777 : Exactly!!! PIA777
124 AGM100 : Nope , I like em ..do business with them and don't mind it a bit. On the other hand I have not met a Muslim yet that recognizes Israel. Muslims are u
125 NAV20 : Maybe that's an area where we can find some common ground. Every religion has its share of extremists. A few hundred years ago different sorts of Chr
126 Airxliban : Well, is the recognition of a country by an individual the relevant framework? You are aware that Egypt and Jordan recognise Israel, as does Turkey a
127 ImperialEagle : Mostly, JUST because they are Jews.
128 SOBHI51 : Not all Muslims are bad,same thing will apply to other religion. I as a Muslim do recognize the right of Israel to exist. Same time i recognize that
129 Dougloid : I'll call it uncivilized and 25 per cent of the US has done away with the death penalty. I live in Iowa and we have not had the death penalty since 1
130 RJpieces : Wow, several Americans on these threads have been trying to get some users from your part of the world to say these words for years, and they have al
131 Aaron747 : I have a four month old daughter...and I can safely say I will be killing nobody were they to rape her. Not only will I get my own arse landed in pri
132 SOBHI51 : It is working in Saudi. When a trader closes his shop with a chair and go to prayer and nothing is stolen, this is proof for it. Did you read my resp
133 Aaron747 : Nonsense. In Japan, you can leave your wallet in a major train station toilet, come back the next morning to the station police box, and reliably exp
134 SOBHI51 : Same thing applies here. Strict laws or strict values is two faces of the same coin. And you make a comparison between Japanese and Saudi population
135 Aaron747 : That may be, but they are not dependent variables. There is virtually no serious religion in modern Japanese society, other than work and endless con
136 Post contains links SOBHI51 : Still death sentences were handed for some people responsible for the Sarine attack on Tokyo metro. Not sure if any were executed or still waiting to
137 Radiopolitic : Be very careful with that. Not only is that purely anecdotal it is also based purely on correlation and correlation does not equal causation.
138 SOBHI51 : Purely anecdotal? No it is not, i saw it myself.
139 Radiopolitic : an⋅ec⋅do⋅tal    /ˈænɪkˌdoʊtl, ˌænɪkˈdoʊtl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [an-ik-doht-l, an-ik-doht-l] Show IPA –adjective 1. perta
140 SOBHI51 : Sorry i do not understand your question. Can you put in simple language please.
141 AGM100 : Of course not ... We are working with people in Saudi /Turkey/Indonesia right now .. no problem. Everyone is equal in my world ... they are all poten
142 SOBHI51 : Very much so. Hamas i see them turning to be more of the political party as they can gain more than being a type of military wing, they are better or
143 Bochora : This is key. If Israel wanted to work for peace they would stop. They wan't to aggravate and tempt retaliation.
144 RJpieces : It's the height of fallacy to conclude that the settlements are the problem when A.) the Palestinians have been attacking Israel long before 1967 and
145 WunalaYann : The world, and the Middle East in particular, will have made quantum leaps in peace and intelligence when people like you stop accusing everyone who
146 SOBHI51 : And where did you get the idea that theft is punishable with death? Get your facts right please.
147 WunalaYann : How about I get them straight from you? Or are your facts not straight?
148 SOBHI51 : You said theft and petty crime. Do you consider armed robbery as a petty crime. You are armed for one reason only to use that arm in case you are dis
149 Radiopolitic : It wasn't a question. Sure, you were using evidence (your personal observations) - the shopkeeper who leaves his store unlocked when he goes to praye
150 WunalaYann : As long as the weapon is not used, yes. If you shoot and kill someone, then it is murder. That armed robbery is more serious than car theft is clear.
151 AGM100 : This is true , my question and answer from SOBHI5 was leading to this response. My fear is as history has proved ... they will not stop at 48. I resp
152 SOBHI51 : As long as it is clear in your laws then before you commit the crime you know the consequences. Let me give you an example: If you are carrying a sma
153 Post contains links Baroque : Actually in Singapore the death penalty is for trafficking - defined as 15 gms or more of heroin. So the intent is that your summary is incorrect, on
154 SOBHI51 : That was a real. In fact it says on the immigration entry form anything over 12 gm is punishable by death, no mention if it was for trafficking or pe
155 Post contains links Baroque : Happy to accept a correction to 12 gm, but they use the quantity to figure out if you are intent on trafficking. They probably do not think you will
156 NAV20 : Is this thread about Saudi-Arabian policy on the death penalty?
157 RussianJet : A very good question indeed. Reviewing this thread, it strikes me as one of the most generally 'off-topic' discussions I have seen in a very long tim
158 Post contains links Baroque : Here is one Israeli's view as promised last night. The transcript is now at: http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2513577.htm Middle East peace pro
159 Post contains links and images Aaron747 : I never said there was no death penalty here, but it's only for the most serious of murders and with the overhaul of the legal system that is current
160 Bochora : They are retaliating to attack from the Israelis. You think we hear the real truth. Wrong.
161 Dougloid : Because that number is factually incorrect?
162 SOBHI51 : If it will take Japan 6 years to get rid of this law so Saudi should be allowed 10 at least. 73K or 50K or 10K or even 1 it is still illegal and does
163 N229NW : That's true. (Weather or not the thorny "legality" issue is even invoked...) Huh? That made no sense... HUH??!? RJ's post is totally wrong-headed but
164 Baroque : Yup I am still scratching my head over that "one" (pun included!). Must be that if one of us can guess the correct number, the Israelis will remove a
165 Post contains images NAV20 : Quote of the month, Baroque...... I keep wondering what would have happened if the Germans had in fact successfully invaded Britain in 1940. I'd prob
166 Baroque : That is all a bit strong on logic Nav, you could earn yourself a holiday doing that. Trying to think what the attitude was in 1940 re a German invasi
167 NAV20 : Tend to take logic seriously on occasion, Baroque. If we forsake logic, what are we left with? Certainly, I could never bring myself to kill people,
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