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Red Light / 'Speed On Green' Camera: Yes Or No?  
User currently offlineA332 From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 1644 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7255 times:

As of April 1, 2009, a handful of red light cameras in Calgary will be converted to also have the ability to snap individuals who speed through the intersection, even if the light is green.

Naturally, there is a good amount of opposition from some members of the community who feel that these cameras do not assist in preventing collisions or ensure safety at such intersections, and feel that these are in place only to rob the public of it's cash.

Of course, having to pay such a fine is completely voluntary since one would not need to worry about being stuck with the fine if they do not speed through an intersection.

What do you think of such technology being implemented...?


Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
82 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLonghornmaniac From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 3355 posts, RR: 45
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7250 times:

Will they also fine people moving too slowly, as they're much more likely to cause an accident?

Our fascination with give people tickets for speeding, even if they are not driving wrecklessly, is completely beyond me. If they're driving too fast, and weaving in and out of traffic, ticket them, but beyond simply for going faster is just stupid, IMO.

 twocents 

Cheers,
Cameron


User currently offlineN867DA From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7250 times:

There may be a case for red light cameras but speed cameras are about as low as a city can go. Especially if they are given to people driving through an intersection at a green light.


A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7239 times:

They have them here in Houston and the majority of those caught are caught within a second of the light changing. These are not the people that are causing accidents. Those kinds of people miss the light by 30 seconds or more because they are not paying attention to begin with. Several studies have been done by groups opposed to the camera's and they have, in some instances, shown that accidents have actually gone up at those intersections where people know the cameras are since they are more apt to lock the brakes up and try to stop if they even think they are going to be close to busting the red. Consequently the person behind them, who was probably traveling too closely anyway, piles into that persons rear end. In the long run it seems as if it more just a cheap way for the city to garner more revenue.

User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7237 times:
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DATABASE EDITOR

I'd support cameras if they ticketed people for following too closely.

2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7230 times:



Quoting N867DA (Reply 2):
There may be a case for red light cameras but speed cameras are about as low as a city can go. Especially if they are given to people driving through an intersection at a green light.

The police in Scottsdale, Arizona have been using mobile speeding cameras (called photo-radar) and stoplight cameras for about 10 years now. One stoplight camera installed at the corner of Scottsdale and Cactus Roads issued 600 tickets in its first few days of operation. The installation of these cameras is all about "revenue enhancement" for the local government, IMO.

By the way, the damn photo radar nabbed me three times in the 8 years that I lived in Scottsdale!  faint 



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7218 times:

I hate these things, even if I'm immune to them (no I'm not I'm not telling how either).

Quoting A332 (Thread starter):
As of April 1, 2009, a handful of red light cameras in Calgary will be converted to also have the ability to snap individuals who speed through the intersection, even if the light is green.

Sucks for you guys.

Quoting A332 (Thread starter):
What do you think of such technology being implemented...?

It's complete BS. While I don't have a problem with standalone red light cameras, speed cameras and red light cameras in one same unit /intersection to me just seems extremely overzealous. AZ is plagued with them, even in a little POS town like PRC.

Quoting N867DA (Reply 2):
There may be a case for red light cameras

 checkmark 


User currently offlineWellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7200 times:

The only people you hear complaining are the d-bags who speed through red and green lights alike with wanton disregard for the safety of other drivers and pedestrians. The only unfortunate thing is that these cameras are not at every single intersection. I would much rather a city get its revenue by busting these lawbreakers than, for example, jack up property taxes on everyone to pay for the city's budgetary incompetence.

User currently offlineAKiss20 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 651 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7193 times:



Quoting WellHung (Reply 7):
The only people you hear complaining are the d-bags who speed through red and green lights alike with wanton disregard for the safety of other drivers and pedestrians. The only unfortunate thing is that these cameras are not at every single intersection. I would much rather a city get its revenue by busting these lawbreakers than, for example, jack up property taxes on everyone to pay for the city's budgetary incompetence.

Considering how ridiculous speed limits are in the States, the vast majority of people "caught" speeding are not endangering anyone. I can think of 5 speed trap zones off the top of my head where it is perfectly safe to go 45-50 but the speed limit is 30-35. Speed limits here are ridiculous, and to call every speeder a d-bad with wanton disregard for public safety is extreme and inaccurate.



Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7188 times:
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DATABASE EDITOR



Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 8):
to call every speeder a d-bad with wanton disregard for public safety is extreme and inaccurate.

Indeed. It's often more prudent to accelerate and exceed the posted limit by a few mph than it is to slam on the brakes at the light.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 7):
I would much rather a city get its revenue by busting these lawbreakers than, for example, jack up property taxes on everyone to pay for the city's budgetary incompetence.

I would much rather a city's traffic enforcement place more importance on safety than revenue. And I have yet to see many cities provide solid evidence that red-light cameras actually enhance safety.

2H4



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User currently offlineWellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7175 times:



Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 8):
Considering how ridiculous speed limits are in the States, the vast majority of people "caught" speeding are not endangering anyone. I can think of 5 speed trap zones off the top of my head where it is perfectly safe to go 45-50 but the speed limit is 30-35.

Seems your definition of "perfectly safe" is whatever speed you feel like driving.

You always have the choice to move to a place where the speed limits are more accommodating to your need for speed.

Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 8):
Speed limits here are ridiculous, and to call every speeder a d-bad with wanton disregard for public safety is extreme and inaccurate.

Yeah, I'm sure they are all "peacefully protesting"...  sarcastic  Let's be honest, speeders and red-light criminals believe they are above the law and don't care who gets in their way as long as they can shave 10 seconds off their commute.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 9):
I would much rather a city's traffic enforcement place more importance on safety than revenue.

I have yet to see your proof that red light cameras affect a city's emphasis on safety.


User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7153 times:



Quoting WellHung (Reply 7):
The only people you hear complaining are the d-bags who speed through red and green lights alike with wanton disregard for the safety of other drivers and pedestrians.

What about the dbags that slam on their brakes as soon as they see a speed camera, EVEN when they are way BELOW the posted limit, and considering they all have an 11mph buffer before they actually go off? Then the person behind, if they actually notice, slams too, and the car behind that one does the same, and so on. Anybody who has driven on speed camera infested freeways (like PHX) knows very well what I'm talking about.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 10):
I have yet to see your proof that red light cameras affect a city's emphasis on safety.

Here is plenty of proof :

http://www.motorists.org/photoenforce/home/studies/

http://hscweb3.hsc.usf.edu/health/now/?p=404


User currently offlineDon81603 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 1185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7143 times:

Winnipeg uses Speed cameras as well as red light cameras at selected intersections. The tolerance for speed is 10 km/h, yet there are reports of morons cooking past them at speeds of up to 75 k/ph over the limit. All they do is mail the ticket to the vehicle's registered owner, but no points, as they can't prove who was driving.

Also, in more than a few instances, the cameras have helped track stolen vehicles (mine included).

That said, I'm for them, and I'd like to see the program expanded to also ticket vehicles going too slow, following too close, crosswalk incursions, illegal turns, and the like.



Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7142 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



Quoting WellHung (Reply 10):
I have yet to see your proof that red light cameras affect a city's emphasis on safety.

If it can be proven that red light cameras legitimately produce a reduction in accidents and an increase in safety, then a city's investment in them would seem prudent, and I would interpret the installation and maintenance of said cameras as a sign that the city is most interested in the safety of drivers.

If that cannot be proven, then I would have to conclude that the city is investing in them solely to increase revenue and not for safety. It's possible that doing this would not affect a city's emphasis on safety, but to me, it's a symptom of a city placing more importance on revenue than safety. And such an imbalance in priorities would not be unprecedented.

If you can find independent studies that prove red-light cameras do in fact enhance safety, I'd love to see them. But my gut feeling is that the vast, vast majority of red-light cameras exist...whether the cities admit it...to produce revenue as opposed to increasing safety, sometimes even at the cost of promoting safe driving practices.

I have yet to see cities provide solid evidence that red-light cameras actually enhance safety.

2H4



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User currently offlineAKiss20 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 651 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7104 times:



Quoting WellHung (Reply 10):
Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 8):
Speed limits here are ridiculous, and to call every speeder a d-bad with wanton disregard for public safety is extreme and inaccurate.

Yeah, I'm sure they are all "peacefully protesting"... sarcastic Let's be honest, speeders and red-light criminals believe they are above the law and don't care who gets in their way as long as they can shave 10 seconds off their commute.

Someone going 5-7 mph over the limit suddenly has no regard for anyone? What world do you live in? You are describing a good 65+% of the population. Going 25 over the limit is one thing, but 5? Seriously?

What about interstates? Do you seriously go 65 on those (55 in some states)? Often going 65/55 on the highway is actually MORE dangerous for public safety as you are not keeping up with traffic and creating a sudden slow-down in a lane.



Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13200 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7062 times:

I could understand the use 'stop light' cameras to give out tickets at locations with high rates of accidents but there a number of issues with them as others have noted here.
Although in my state (New Jersey) unmanned speed cameras are not allowed by State law (for a number of years) we are only now are we getting a few stop light cameras, mainly at those intersections with high rates of accidents at them. I hope they post easy to see signs warning people that such cameras are in use. Some insurance companies don't like the idea of not giving out points and often are the biggest cheerleaders of speed/stop light cameras so to justify higher premiums.
I also believe in Arizona, there was a recent state court decision there that limits the use by local police forces as to unmanned speed/stop light cameras. One of those jurisdictions figured out too that after the operaters cut for the cameras, it meant less money to their town that with human cops. Also such cameras don't notice like a human cop can as to possible drunk or dangerous drivers.


User currently offlineN867DA From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7053 times:



Quoting WellHung (Reply 7):
The only people you hear complaining are the d-bags who speed through red and green lights alike with wanton disregard for the safety of other drivers and pedestrians

Oh please....gimme a break. I haven't been driving very long but on the freeways and arteries I'm forced to use the "d-bag" doing 40 in a 55 is much more dangerous than the guy doing 65. I obey the speed limit or match the speed of traffic and never run red lights. I yield for every pedestrian period, even the ones that jaywalk across five lanes wearing black pants and a black shirt at 6:30 am. I've waited for the goddamn light to change at 3 a.m. ...waiting for zero cars to clear the intersection. There is a difference between driving safely and driving slowly.

Most of the red light camera fines in my town come from the one or two drivers that run a light after a green signal. The intersection "box" is already clear of all opposing traffic. The only major problem is that other traffic has to wait an extra three seconds before hitting the accelerator. Such a move is obviously illegal but it doesn't compromise safety. Few people go charging through a busy interchange and I highly doubt that people with such disregard for others would stop to avoid a $70 fee.

It's a money grab, pure and simple. And the police department tells anyone in the press who dares to point this out to go screw themselves.



A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
User currently offlineGuitrThree From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2059 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7049 times:

I live in one of the first cities in TN to have Red Light Camera's..

my opinion?

After two years of them up and running, it seems that the majority of collections come from people "rolling" thru a right turn on red. Yea.. if you don't come to a complete stop while making a right, it will cost you $50. Those people who roll through a right turn on red, what, cause 1%, if that, of accidents?

If they are truly installed to stop the running of red lights, then they wouldn't be used as a way to increase revenue.
They would simply be placed at high incident intersections, and if accidents occur, they can be used as proof of who ran the light. That in itself would slow the practice of running the lights without the controversy of collecting fines from drivers they can't even prove were driving.



As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7046 times:

What is to say the person didn't speedup to avoid a collision by someone running the light or some other such reason. Cameras are indiscriminate.

User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3012 posts, RR: 46
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6997 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

OK wait, I somehow don't see the issue. What's the problem in simply *not* driving over the speed limit, and *not* running the red light?

I think speed cameras of any kind are a good idea, because they increase the city's (or state's) income, which is always a good thing nowadays, and are basically a voluntary contribution. Everyone knows that speeding or running red lights might trigger a fine, and thus people are perfectly conscious that what they're doing (ie. speeding) might result in said voluntary contribution being applied.

You can choose: drive the correct speed for free, or drive faster and pay premium  Silly



Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
User currently offlineMoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2402 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6999 times:



Quoting WellHung (Reply 10):
Seems your definition of "perfectly safe" is whatever speed you feel like driving.

That's right - everyone going faster than you is a reckless fool, and everyone going slower is an idiot that needs to learn how to drive.  Big grin

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 11):
Here is plenty of proof :

And here are a number of studies showing the effectiveness of RLCs:
http://www.wral.com/traffic/story/4281997/
http://www.govtech.com/gt/articles/103676
http://baytownsun.com/story.lasso?ewcd=277e3657fc6c7cbb
http://www.qctimes.com/articles/2008...ocal/doc4784e23fb6e16339270196.txt

And finally, a study by the US DOT Federal Highway Administration:
http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/pubs/05049/
They show mixed results, with a decrease in side impact crashes, and a lesser increase in rear end crashes. They do note however, that rear end crashes tend to be less severe, causing much less property damage and significantly reduced injuries.



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7653 posts, RR: 35
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6985 times:



Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 1):
Our fascination with give people tickets for speeding, even if they are not driving wrecklessly, is completely beyond me. If they're driving too fast, and weaving in and out of traffic, ticket them, but beyond simply for going faster is just stupid, IMO.

Easy money and thats the only reason why speeding is such a sin. There are far more dangerous traffic infractions (such as passing on the right) that, at least around here don't even get a second glance.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 10):
Seems your definition of "perfectly safe" is whatever speed you feel like driving.

Perfectly safe would actually post a speed that the road is designed for, not improving a road and then lowering the speedlimit by 10 or 20 km/h because its "safer". Safe is not having speedlimits that are posted for no just cause or any logical reasoning behind it.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 10):
You always have the choice to move to a place where the speed limits are more accommodating to your need for speed.

We could also catch up with the rest of the modern world (I'm talking about Canada in particualr) and actually post speed limits to get people moving and post a speedlimit that the road was designed for.

Quoting Moose135 (Reply 20):
That's right - everyone going faster than you is a reckless fool, and everyone going slower is an idiot that needs to learn how to drive.

You've just described the typical North American driver Big grin



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9545 posts, RR: 42
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6930 times:



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4):
I'd support cameras if they ticketed people for following too closely.

 thumbsup  If the person behind me wants to go faster than me and break the speed limit, I have no problem moving aside. What pisses me off is when I'm being held up in the outside lane by someone else and the person behind decides to take it out on me by driving 10m behind at ~65 mph.

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 11):
What about the dbags that slam on their brakes as soon as they see a speed camera, EVEN when they are way BELOW the posted limit

 thumbsup  In the UK, the police tend to drive either quite a bit below the speed limit, precisely to avoid causing a bottleneck, or, when responding to an emergency, quite a bit over the limit. That's why I find it very annoying to be held up at 10 mph below the limit because some people panic and overreact when they see a police car, slamming on ther brakes and making it look as though there's a major incident ahead. Do the ones in the outside lane pull over when they slow down? Do they hell. They carry on down the ouside lane at exactly the same speed as the cars in the inside lane. When they eventually figure out what a mess they're causing and do pull in, there's not much that gives me more satisfaction than cruising past with my speedometer showing about 5 mph over the limit (i.e. 75 mph) and knowing that I'm actually going no more than 1 or 2 mph over the limit and am very unlikely to be stopped.


User currently offlineWellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6918 times:



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 13):
If you can find independent studies that prove red-light cameras do in fact enhance safety, I'd love to see them.

See:

Quoting Moose135 (Reply 20):

And here are a number of studies showing the effectiveness of RLCs:
http://www.wral.com/traffic/story/4281997/
http://www.govtech.com/gt/articles/103676
http://baytownsun.com/story.lasso?ewcd=277e3657fc6c7cbb
http://www.qctimes.com/articles/2008...ocal/doc4784e23fb6e16339270196.txt

And finally, a study by the US DOT Federal Highway Administration:
http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/pubs/05049/
They show mixed results, with a decrease in side impact crashes, and a lesser increase in rear end crashes. They do note however, that rear end crashes tend to be less severe, causing much less property damage and significantly reduced injuries.



Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 14):
Someone going 5-7 mph over the limit suddenly has no regard for anyone? What world do you live in? You are describing a good 65+% of the population.

That sounds like an accurate number.

Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 14):
Often going 65/55 on the highway is actually MORE dangerous for public safety as you are not keeping up with traffic and creating a sudden slow-down in a lane.

Huh? This post doesn't make sense, but it appears you are blaming the people who do obey the speed limit for hazards created by those who ignore the law. That's rich...

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 21):
Perfectly safe would actually post a speed that the road is designed for

AKA, however fast YOU feel like driving.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 21):
Safe is not having speedlimits that are posted for no just cause or any logical reasoning behind it.

Link? Source?

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 21):
speedlimit that the road was designed for

That seems to be your favorite new phrase, however it is meaningless and seems to be an excuse for you to drive however fast you want. There are enough reckless drivers as is. Raising speed limits to the mythical number of "whatever ACDC8 feels the road was designed for" would encourage and increase the already rampant reckless behavior. That's nice that you feel you are too important to drive the speed limit. But my concern is for the innocent drivers who are put at risk by your dangerous and careless driving.

It is a failing of society to ignore the set speed limit or red lights for personal gain.


User currently offlineFlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7279 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6906 times:



Quoting A332 (Thread starter):
What do you think of such technology being implemented...?

Horrible idea, it should be illegal. Red Light cameras at intersections which have a lot of red light running accidents are okay but still I dont agree with them. But now a speed camera. I would be very unhappy. Now will it only ticket you if you are going more than 8mph+ because many police officers dont even bother with giving tickets 8 over or below. A camera does not know your different circumstances. Sure it is great that it might keep police free to do more important things but I just dont agree with it. It should be illegal.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
25 Moose135 : That's right - all it knows is that you broke the law.
26 A332 : I suppose I find myself completely torn on the issue, since I believe that implementation of such devices does tend to generate revenue off the backs
27 AKiss20 : And there in lies the problem. When the vast majority of the people are not "obeying" the law by driving above 65, do you either a)drive the speed li
28 Post contains links WildcatYXU : A slightly paranoid view to speed limits and speed fines: http://www.magma.ca/~fyst/appndxd.htm Wow, very interesting statement. Care to support it wi
29 N867DA : By the language you are using it sounds like this is more of a personal issue. I'd rather drive with skilled drivers traveling at 75 in a 60 than dri
30 Springbok747 : We have a few of those here..they suck big time. Bloody things malfunction all the time..causing the lights to go off also. Bad idea. Whoever came up
31 JFK69 : RED LIGHT CAMERAS SUCK!!!! Why you ask? Did you get a ticket that would make you pissed?? NO, they screw up traffic. People know where they are causin
32 OzTech : There is no safe speeding..... You choose your speed and you choose the consequences...
33 Baroque : I wonder what your reaction would be down here with school zones where there are radar cameras and the speed limit varies with time of day, day of we
34 WellHung : Blaming people who do obey the law for hazards caused by those who recklessly ignore the law does not advance your argument. It's a societal issue. T
35 FLY2HMO : Amen When riding a bus, shuttle or other vehicle when I'm not driving myself, I always look out the window to see what other people are doing as they
36 Smcmac32msn : Here's an example.... Howell Ave (right past the airport and going south in MKE) is a 30 and moves up to a 40 zone. I've done 50 past cops in the 40
37 Smcmac32msn : Then can you atleast do the speedlimit when I go past you like your standing still? I can't count the number of times on a 65 mph road that I've had
38 Charles79 : I agree. And what I find equally as ridiculous is the claim that drivers can drive "safely" above the speed limit. The driving test here in the US is
39 Post contains links Smcmac32msn : Like Tim Hortons running out of glazed donuts? http://www.cybersalt.org/cl_images/1zzzzxa/d/donutsafe.jpg
40 Jamincan : I think it seems fairly obvious that roads are engineered to accomodate certain speeds. Expressways tend to have few curves, level grade, long sight
41 WellHung : Strawman to the rescue... This is a mischaracterization, which fits quite nicely with the rest of your argument. The actual speed limit never exceeds
42 David L : As usual, I see plenty of arguments as to why certain speed limits should be raised rather than legitimate reasons for ignoring them. I agree that som
43 FlyDeltaJets87 : What circumstances are those? You shouldn't be going 10 over through an intersection anyway. Yellow lights are designed to match the speed limit of t
44 Post contains links and images FLY2HMO : Your point? It's not like I heard from it from a friend of a friend who has a an acquaintance that did this. I heard it from the person itself. A cop
45 Post contains images FlyDeltaJets87 : What about people who are "too damn stupid" to understand this? It doesn't take an aerospace engineer to figure out that "limit" means "do not exceed
46 ADXMatt : Ask yourself what is the city doing with that money from these cameras? (After Lockheed Martin or who ever installed and maintains the cameras take th
47 Smcmac32msn : Imagine if you will....... you're cruising down the road (interstate) between 65 and 70 and you're being passed by another car going a few mph faster
48 ACDC8 : No, its however fast the road designers and traffic engineers design the road for NOT how fast the Insurance Coporation of BC or local municipalites
49 Danfearn77 : Im sure we have had this technology in the UK for a while now. If there is one Government who can see the use of such cameras to rob the public then i
50 Smcmac32msn : EASY RULES FOR THE ROAD: 1. No matter what speed you feel like driving, keep with the minimum end of the flow of traffic speed. Don't go 63 in a 65 zo
51 Texasaggie : I am currently living in Doha, Qatar, and red light/speed-on-green cameras are everywhere. The camera catches people who run the red light and those w
52 FlyDeltaJets87 : How about drivers just exercise situational awareness. Using this thing called depth perception, you should be able to realize that you're approachin
53 Smcmac32msn : I see people passing on skis all the time.... Take a cab, ride a bus, public transit was meant for you as slow drivers are a danger. As I said, if 95
54 Aaron747 : The ones they put up in San Francisco awhile back were time-lagged because of that complaint. That was several years back though - I would imagine it
55 Smcmac32msn : That would be "right of way" and their is no "right of way" on the open road. Right of way only is for intersections and merging on roads. Cars mergi
56 ShyFlyer : Doing 60 in a 65 zone is not a danger. I don't care how fast everyone one else is going. If they are exceeding the speed limit, they have forfeited t
57 Post contains links Smcmac32msn : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwe8m2yoYk4 Notice if you will..... in this video after 1 minute he finally enters I-25. He keeps up with the cars in
58 David L : They also have to account for those who only think they're good enough. I don't remember anyone ever telling me they were below average at driving. A
59 ShyFlyer : The video proves nothing. That's only because that streach of highway could use an additional lane. If he were to have cars "bottlenecked" behind him
60 FlyDeltaJets87 : Thank you. I'll be the first to admit that I do speed just over the limit. But I know I'm not going to be able to argue if I get a ticket. If you're
61 David L : Don't get me wrong. I do believe speed cameras are being abused by local authorities to generate cash, due to their frequent siting where people are m
62 Smcmac32msn : But then I'd get a ticket for passing on the shoulder , and they need all the money they can get before adding that 3rd lane.
63 NorthStarDC4M : To all those who think speed limits should be absolute and obeyed... well fine just post the designed speed limit for the road and ill agree. For exam
64 ShyFlyer : Only to those who feel the need to go faster than the posted limit and not paying attention. The driver not paying attention is the one who is in the
65 Smcmac32msn : The correct wording should be: The driver not paying attention to the flow of traffic and having situational awareness is the one who is in the wrong
66 ShyFlyer : Situational awareness is a two way street. Wanna exceed the posted limit? Realize and accept the fact that you will have to pass people. People who h
67 ACDC8 : It depends, most people doing less than the speedlimit up here tend to stay in the left lane because they think its "safer". And for God's sake, don'
68 QFA380 : I'm finding this out first hand. Having my L plates I'm limited to 80kph, if I am driving in a single lane 100kph section of highway it starts to get
69 Post contains links Dan2002 : I'm not sure if this has been posted yet or not, but it's very relevant to the discussion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B-Ox0ZmVIU
70 AKiss20 : " target=_blank>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B-Ox...ZmVIU I saw that before (not posted yet) it is freaking brilliant! See what happens if everyon
71 David L : No. See what happens when people cause an obstruction in the process of twisting the facts? There was nothing to stop any of those people from pullin
72 AKiss20 : The thing is this is the ideal world of WellHung/other "obey the speed limit to the T or die"-ites where EVERYONE goes the 55 MPH speed limit. These s
73 David L : No it doesn't. It makes the point that disregarding issues other than speeding also causes problems. It makes the point that they think driving at a
74 ShyFlyer : The only point they proved is how irrational some people get behind the wheel. Passing on the shoulder and at least one example of one vehicle clippi
75 David L : But, apparently, it would have been "dangerous" if they hadn't. Seriously, all that video shows is a bunch of inexperienced drivers with a lot to lea
76 Smcmac32msn : Ok, so you speed-o-phites that follow the 55 to the T....... when you're doing 55 on the interstate and you have to move over for one of your 55 mph
77 Post contains links PPVRA : http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23710970/page/2/
78 Don81603 : Yup, I do... the bozos going 120-125... Like the one a few weeks ago that sailed out of the King City service plaza at 105, sailed across all 3 lanes
79 MCOflyer : Spot on, and thats a reason why we should adapt them for this use. KH
80 ACDC8 : Sorry, my mistake. I got confused with the different speedlimits they have for day and night driving. However, if I do recall correctly, Hwy 97c just
81 David L : I think I answered that before you asked... When you pull over, you don't slow traffic below the normal flow. You match your speed to the speed they'
82 FlyDeltaJets87 : For all the questions you ask and points you want responded to, you still haven't responded to these: I get the feeling he's not going to pay attenti
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