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N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea  
User currently offlineVirgin744 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 919 posts, RR: 4
Posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3438 times:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-03/09/content_10972181.htm

PYONGYANG, March 9 (Xinhua) -- The Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) said on Monday it will launch a war on the territory of the United States, Japan and South Korea, if its satellite launching "for peaceful purpose" was intercepted.

Although they are always big talkers this time I find the tone even more absurd. The timing isn't helpful either, they know that all these countries are deep in recession and can not afford to start another one at the moment.

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4025 posts, RR: 28
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3418 times:

S*it. I am going to South Korea in less than two weeks... first the threat to shoot down civilian airliners, now this...


Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21730 posts, RR: 55
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3417 times:



Quoting Virgin744 (Thread starter):
The timing isn't helpful either, they know that all these countries are deep in recession and can not afford to start another one at the moment.

Except that they wouldn't be starting it. North Korea would have that honor.

Assuming that the US won't respond because of the economic crisis requires a level of stupidity that I don't think Kim Jong Il has reached.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 989 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3397 times:



Quoting Virgin744 (Thread starter):
Although they are always big talkers this time I find the tone even more absurd.

North Korea is really putting the U.S. (and everyone else) in a lose-lose situation here. There are many ways in which a DPRK launch could go bad and further deteriorate relations with the regime.

* The capability to launch a satellite is indistinguishable from the capability to launch an ICBM. If North Korea demonstrates they can orbit this "peaceful" satellite, they gain significant leverage in any future negotiations.

* What happens if this launch vehicle fails as so many North Korean missiles do? Does North Korea blame the U.S. when it did nothing to intercept the vehicle? If the launch vehicle doesn't achieve orbital velocity, what is the U.S. to do with a suborbital object coming our direction from North Korea? Do we intercept then, knowing what North Korea will do in reaction? Do we let North Korea literally demonstrate they can put a warhead down on our territory?

Lastly, I can only hope that the Obama administration back-offs their hostility toward "unproven" anti-ballistic missile technology. I don't care how much it costs, national defense should be the first priority of the federal government and ballistic missile technology is only going to get more prolific in the future. We need effective defenses and it will take us longer to develop anti-missile technology than it will take our enemies to obtain missiles of their own. We can't stop development and deployment of new systems because we won't have time to re-start them once we are threatened.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3334 times:

I think Hillary should call a meeting with Kim Jong and bring him a reset button like she did in Russia. That will clear everything up.

Quoting Mir (Reply 2):
Assuming that the US won't respond because of the economic crisis requires a level of stupidity that I don't think Kim Jong Il has reached.

Or figuring we are at our weakest during this crisis.


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8969 posts, RR: 39
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3331 times:



Quoting Virgin744 (Thread starter):
it will launch a war on the territory of the United States, Japan and South Korea, if its satellite launching "for peaceful purpose" was intercepted.

Yeah and it'll be the end of this pathetic regime too.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 1):
S*it. I am going to South Korea in less than two weeks... first the threat to shoot down civilian airliners, now this...

You'll see interesting flight paths. Flying around NK on the way, and taking off from Incheon is directly northbound (depending on winds). . you know the pilot will turn but you still think bout it. .

South Korea is great though, I hope to go back there in the near future.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 989 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3318 times:



Quoting PPVRA (Reply 5):
Yeah and it'll be the end of this pathetic regime too.

Well there's the school of thought that dictators love power so much they would never do anything provocative enough to prompt a war that could topple them. Unfortunately IMO, that requires more rationality than I think the every single dictator possesses.

I want regime change in the DPRK as much as the next guy, but it's hard to imagine a war on the Korean peninsula that doesn't end with a million plus civilian casualties.


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8969 posts, RR: 39
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3304 times:



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 6):
that requires more rationality than I think the every single dictator possesses.

Especially, ahem, the one in question. .

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 6):
I want regime change in the DPRK as much as the next guy, but it's hard to imagine a war on the Korean peninsula that doesn't end with a million plus civilian casualties.

I think regime change there can only come from within. Either a revolt (which seems unlikely, poor and weak population) or a Raul Castro kind of leader who slowly opens up the country. . it's not like the South Koreans would really know what to do in case of a complete opening and/or a sudden re-unification, either.

It's a truly sad and at the same time revoltingly stupid situation. How any regime can be so inhuman is simply beyond me.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31692 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3272 times:

What happens when these countries retaliate.  Smile
regds
MEL.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8459 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3249 times:



Quoting Virgin744 (Thread starter):
The timing isn't helpful either, they know that all these countries are deep in recession and can not afford to start another one at the moment.

North Korea has been on the brink of bankruptcy since the Soviet Union failed. Any recession in Asia or the US would give North Korea little advantage, as it's equipment is out of date and it's people are malnourished. This is little more then chest beating by North Korea. They simply do not have the ability to take on their neighbours and the US and think they can win. If they do, it will ultimately lead to the north becoming part of the south or part of China.


User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3103 times:

The fact that the Chinese have not just crushed that little turd is what I am having trouble understanding.

How much of the idea that NK is essentially a pit bull at the end of China's leash may be true? A pit-bull that conveniently harasses the US , Japan and SK every once and a while to just show who is in charge.

China must have a good measure of influence over NK ... could they do more to clean up that mess?



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineWhappeh From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3084 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 8):
What happens when these countries retaliate. Smile
regds
MEL.

North Korea ceases to exist.



-Travel now, journey infinitely.
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8188 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3071 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 10):

China must have a good measure of influence over NK ... could they do more to clean up that mess?

The DPRK is quite the annoyance to China these days. The primary reason China wishes to avoid a collapse of the regime next door is that 20 million refugees would suddenly be entering their northeastern hinterlands. Preparations for such a scenario have been made for the last several years, and the logistics measures massed near the border since have been no secret during the last few rounds of the six party talks.

It's in China's immediate interest that North Korea remains a viable and stable state, in whatever form it may take.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 10):
How much of the idea that NK is essentially a pit bull at the end of China's leash may be true?

I discount such a notion based on the fact that China itself has excellent capabilities in various expressions of realpolitik and the completely wacko nature of the Dear Leaders Kim doesn't jive with the methodical nature of the last three decades of Chinese government.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21730 posts, RR: 55
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3041 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 4):
Or figuring we are at our weakest during this crisis.

We are. But even in our weakened state, we can still kick North Korea's ass should they attack another sovereign nation.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20007 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3012 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 13):

We are. But even in our weakened state, we can still kick North Korea's ass should they attack another sovereign nation.

-Mir

The problem is how to do it. We're not about to nuke them. The problem is that they aren't a democracy. We can roll in there and completely dismantle their government, but then what? We'd have another Iraq on our hands.

Now, if NK is dumb enough to actually attack anyone, then we won't have much of a choice.

For me, I am a big fan of EMP weapons. I think that's a very effective way to shut down North Korea.


User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2976 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
The problem is that they aren't a democracy. We can roll in there and completely dismantle their government, but then what? We'd have another Iraq on our hands.

I don't think so. I don't think you'd see the insurgency in North Korea that we're seeing in Iraq and Afghanistan today. But then again I'm not an intel officer.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 12):
The DPRK is quite the annoyance to China these days. The primary reason China wishes to avoid a collapse of the regime next door is that 20 million refugees would suddenly be entering their northeastern hinterlands. Preparations for such a scenario have been made for the last several years, and the logistics measures massed near the border since have been no secret during the last few rounds of the six party talks.

It's in China's immediate interest that North Korea remains a viable and stable state, in whatever form it may take.

 checkmark 
The issue of North Korea is one issue the US and China have generally agreed upon and has helped US/China relations - recently both countries were signing members of a 6 way treaty regarding the DPRK.


User currently offlineKiqaboy From Sweden, joined Feb 2006, 171 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2954 times:

For China USA is more important that NK, cause China has good economic relation with USA and they sell lot of stuff to US and visa vers. So if the war will start I'm sure that China will be part of the alliance against NK. the second reason is that keeping NK population inside NK cost less then hosting them in China.
And as someone mentioned above NK army is outdated they have a big force but technology maters in this time as proven before in a conventional war.NK army will be the same as Iraqi army more than half of them will desert in the first step of the war cause they are hungry and they will do any thing to feed their self and family.

One problem is that Seoul is only 40 KM from the NK and you can hit it very easy with heavy artillery you would not need missiles to strike Seoul.

kiqa



once upone time
User currently offlineFatmirJusufi From Albania, joined Jan 2009, 2441 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2919 times:



Quoting Virgin744 (Thread starter):
N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

...and WW3 begins.  worried 

Fatmir



DO FLIGHTS. NOT FIGHTS.
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4025 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2903 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
We can roll in there and completely dismantle their government, but then what? We'd have another Iraq on our hands.

Then it will be South Korea's problem, as it should. The fact is, despite all the talk South Korea does not want reunification as this would imply they would have to deal with the mess that is the North - they saw what happened in East Germany and fear it, times 10.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
For me, I am a big fan of EMP weapons. I think that's a very effective way to shut down North Korea.

Have you seen pictures of North Korea at night? You can't really see any lights in there, it is not like an EMP weapon would have much effect.



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2876 times:



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 21):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
For me, I am a big fan of EMP weapons. I think that's a very effective way to shut down North Korea.

Have you seen pictures of North Korea at night? You can't really see any lights in there, it is not like an EMP weapon would have much effect.

Yeh. HJow you gonna EMP a kerosene lantern?


User currently offlinePar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7396 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2831 times:

Since the Korean war did not end in a peace treaty, and it was a UN action, why not let the UN sort it out, no need for the US to play peace keeper.

User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2809 times:



Quoting Par13del (Reply 23):
why not let the UN sort it out

As big a proponent of the UN as I can be, it wouldn't do jack, not with China on the Security Council ready and willing to veto any measures that might, in its opinion, either violate the DPRK's national sovereignty, or cause instability there.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2804 times:

My prediction if this thing goes hot is once the North Korean government is defeated, you'd see North Korea united with South Korea under the South Korean government and the country would just become one unified "Korea" following the conclusion of hostilities.

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21730 posts, RR: 55
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2727 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
The problem is how to do it. We're not about to nuke them. The problem is that they aren't a democracy. We can roll in there and completely dismantle their government, but then what? We'd have another Iraq on our hands.

Now, if NK is dumb enough to actually attack anyone, then we won't have much of a choice.

Of course. I don't support pulling another Iraq with N. Korea. They have to attack someone first. But once they do, I don't have any problem taking military action.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1679 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2704 times:



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 22):
My prediction if this thing goes hot is once the North Korean government is defeated, you'd see North Korea united with South Korea under the South Korean government and the country would just become one unified "Korea" following the conclusion of hostilities.

We'll probably see South Korea rounding up NK refugees and sending them to camps while the South figures out what to, possibly leading to a humanitary disaster because the South can't handle the sudden influx of people and with the current economic crisis, unable to invest much money to rebuild the North.


25 DocLightning : But it needs to be a brief, decisive one. "We're coming in, we're toppling the government. We're setting up a provisional government. We're overseein
26 AGM100 : Seems to me they could call up the little fella there and talk a bit of sense into him. But what would they propose as a alternate to his rule ? A co
27 Aaron747 : Communism in today's China is a far cry from the Stalinist system represented by the Dear Leaders Kim. The blame is China's alone? Pretty revisionist
28 N174UA : It was said in 1990 that it would take Germany a generation before true reunification was accomplished. We're 20 years in (already!) and while progre
29 Falcon84 : Let 'em bluster. You have to always take a rogue nation like them seriously, but they know fulll well if they launched an attack in any of those direc
30 DfwRevolution : Like I said previously, that school of thought relies on the assumption that at the core of every tin-pot dictatorship is some tiny kernel of reason.
31 AGM100 : Well they did fight the UN to a stalemate and establish (or sponsor ) the communist government in NK ... essentially. Correct ? What would be the rea
32 ScrubbsYWG : the one interesting thing i read was... what IF they do launch a satellite, or attempt to. Say this rocket fails to get into orbit and it is going tow
33 MD11Engineer : This is exactly what the South Korean government is afraid of. The german reunification happened during a time of relative economic prosperity and We
34 WunalaYann : Perhaps China and Russia might be somewhat displeased with having a toppled buffer state in the hands of Western powers on their very borders, comple
35 Boeing4ever : Oh, it won't be like Iraq. But that's not saying it'll be better. No, no. Can't argue with that here...but, is Kim Jong Il even alive? I don't think
36 Par13del : You are assuming that the South would win, the South's penchant for taking casualities probably mirrors the feelings in the west, they do not want a
37 AGM100 : This in my opinion is correct ... so I would hope that they get to "influencing" .. soon.
38 StuckInCA : Spoken like a true conservative NMD has been heavily funded since the Reagan administration and it's still just a big science project rampant with wa
39 B2443 : I think we should stop looking at individual events...small countries wouldn't go provacative without support of BIG countries. This North Korea thing
40 WunalaYann : I am not talking about insurgency. Destabilisation is not a synonym of insurgency. You can destabilise by sabotage, propaganda, corruption, industria
41 Boeing4ever : Hency why I listed destabilisation and insurgency. All of this is true unfortunately, but they also would incur the cost of a few million refugees. I
42 Par13del : Not to dispute anyone on this, but Russia and China still control a lot of information from their countries, I won't even mention North Korea, but th
43 Slider : Much ado about nothing. Woof, woof…DPRK thumping its chest again…. If they step out of line, we halt food shipments, it’s that simple. They’re
44 DocLightning : My suggestion (and I think Obama would do this) is to sit down with China and Russia and say "Here's what we're going to do and long-term occupation
45 Slider : Hey, bring a bottle of wine too... Newsflash: they don't give a shit! Keeping DPRK on the chain, distracting the rest of the world, and creating stri
46 Boeing4ever : I would say all of the above. The DPRK still relies heavily on foreign food shipments since the famines of the 1990s. B4e-Forever New Frontiers
47 DLA330 : Reunification would be nice but I don't think it will ever happen. Maybe it will in my lifetime but it might be a very long time before it ever happen
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