Sonic From Lithuania, joined Jan 2000, 1669 posts, RR: 1 Posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8563 times:
Hello,
As I know there are some Lebanese in this forum, I thought I'd ask it here. What was the situation in Lebanon when it, and the capital Beirut, was partitioned between different factions? Does it means that the Green line in Beirut and limits between zones of control elsewgere were like a frontline where no civilian could cross (or were permissions needed), or was the civil war in Beirut more on separate strikes rather than actual warfare?
BA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11094 posts, RR: 69 Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8539 times:
During the war, Lebanon had calm periods and periods where fighting would spike up, so the situation depended when and where you were in the country. The Lebanese Civil War is often described as a series of wars following each other.
Generally, civilians could cross through the different zones of control through checkpoints maintained by the militias. At many times during the war however, crossing through the different zones was very dangerous depending on your religious or political background. In such cases, militias often executed people on the spot if they were of the "wrong" religious and/or political background.
Fighting was widespread throughout the country although some areas saw less fighting than others. Most of the fighting occurred in the capital, Beirut, mostly along the Green Line. As a result, the most destruction occurred in this area, especially in the downtown area.
Lebanon's 2nd largest city, Tripoli, in the north of the country, saw less fighting than Beirut and other parts of the country so it was spared much destruction.
Here are some before renovation and after renovation pictures of the "Green Line" area in downtown Beirut:
Before and After
Before
After
Before
After
Before
After
Before
After
Before
After
Before
After
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
RJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8503 times:
Quoting BA (Reply 3): And I remember you repeating the same thing in the past.
Yes, that was shortly before Hezbollah camped out in downtown Beirut for a long period of time. Never a good sign in Lebanon when the price of guns rises....
BA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11094 posts, RR: 69 Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8494 times:
Quoting RJpieces (Reply 4): Never a good sign in Lebanon when the price of guns rises....
The article you posted makes no mention of the "price of guns rising in Lebanon."
On the contrary, the article you posted shows MP Saad Hariri disputing the notion that the violence that occurred last May will be repeated again this summer.
Hariri said he was confident that the sectarian bloodshed which shook the country last year, pitting his mainly Sunni alliance against Shiites, would not be repeated in the run-up to the vote.
"There was a tense speech in the past which is not there anymore," he said. "We now also have a president who is a stabilising factor."
Lebanon will remain a politically hot spot until the Lebanese people agree to abandon confessional politics. However, as the past three years and the events of last May have shown, it is going to take a lot to drag the country into a civil war. Nobody wants civil war. The memories of the horrid 15-year war are still very vivid among the generation that lived through it while the young generation are much more cooperative and anti-confrontation oriented. So basically, Lebanon's future very much lies on the young generation.
Last May was Lebanon's ultimate test. I don't expect Lebanon to be tested again to such a degree until the next presidential elections which aren't until 2014.
[Edited 2009-03-17 20:43:23]
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
Jean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2071 posts, RR: 28 Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8471 times:
Bit of a tangent here, but seeing those stunning before and after pictures, it struck me that the images in 'Waltz with Bashir' were very strikingly accurate - considering that it was an animation.
Did you guys see that movie? Israeli perspective, of course - but what did you think?
BA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11094 posts, RR: 69 Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8468 times:
Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 6): Did you guys see that movie? Israeli perspective, of course - but what did you think?
My sister saw it. I'll try to see it soon if I have some time.
You might be interested in the following movies:
West Beirut (Lebanese-made)
Beaufort (Israeli-made)
Under the Bombs (Lebanese-made)
Bosta and Caramel are two Lebanese-made movies unrelated to war and conflict. Both are excellent and focus on Lebanese society. Caramel in particular focuses on some controversial societal issues such as abortion and homosexuality.
You can find their trailers on Youtube.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
BA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11094 posts, RR: 69 Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 20 hours ago) and read 8411 times:
Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 8):
That "long period of time" was a few days.
Actually, it was 18 months...I WISH it was only a few days...
The camp out ended last May after the Doha Accords between the March 14 alliance and the opposition which resulted in an an agreement to pick Lebanon's military commander, Michel Suleiman, as the country's next president.
Lebanon was without a president for 6 months since Emile Lahoud's term ended in November 2007.
In August, Brigadier General Jean Qahwaji was selected to become the country's next military commander replacing Michel Suleiman.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
Raffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1251 posts, RR: 7 Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 20 hours ago) and read 8404 times:
The country is NOT on the verge of another civil war. People in Lebanon do not want any more strife. The only destruction and damage that's been inflicted on Lebanon since the end of the civil war is from Israeli war planes dropping bombs on Lebanese infrastructure
RJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 12 hours ago) and read 8368 times:
Quoting Raffik (Reply 10): People in Lebanon do not want any more strife.
If only the people of Lebanon were left to their own accords, there would never have been a civil war in the first place. But you ignore that Syria is very much interested in having a weak, divided, and downright submissive Lebanon.
Quoting Raffik (Reply 10): The only destruction and damage that's been inflicted on Lebanon since the end of the civil war is from Israeli war planes dropping bombs on Lebanese infrastructure
Honestly, how can you say this? Which country assasinated Hariri? Which country regularly assasinates Lebanese officials who question Syrian domination?
ScrubbsYWG From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1464 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 11 hours ago) and read 8361 times:
those before and after pictures are amazing. The fact they tried to keep the architecture true to what it was is amazing. Here we fight to keep heritage buildings that are nowhere near the condition many of those buildings were.
It is great to see all those people just milling about. That is what makes a city. i love the people filled neighborhoods. I would love to visit beirut sometime.
ME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13744 posts, RR: 33 Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8299 times:
Quoting BA (Reply 9): That "long period of time" was a few days.
Actually, it was 18 months...I WISH it was only a few days...
But if I understood RJP correctly he referred to that intrusion of Hizbullah-militias into WestBeirut last year. And not to those "camp-outs". But ok, he possibly referred to those "sit-ins" etc, and then it of course was 18 months .............
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Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11): If only the people of Lebanon were left to their own accords, there would never have been a civil war in the first place. But you ignore that Syria is very much interested in having a weak, divided, and downright submissive Lebanon.
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to blame "outside-forces" has been what I heard in Beirut from Lebanese people on visits in 2004 and 2005. Whenever various other countries including Syria permanently meddle in Lebanese affairs and in case of doubt even settle scores on Lebanese territory, I think that to make the Lebanese themselves innocent of what happened before and during and since the Civil War is simply a bit too easy.
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Syria is one country, but various "forces" in question. While the government as such for a variety of reasons (seaport-use, use of Lebanese banks, middle-class Syrians holidaying in Lebanon and more) is interested in a stable and prosperous Lebanon, some sectors of the Secret Service are NOT. Cross-border alliances are common place. I always found it amazing that apparently the Allawite Assad Clan is on best terms with the Maronite Frangieh Clan, while the Khaddam-clique is somehow allied with the Hariri-folks, etc.
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So that you are right in so far, as not all problems are solved and that not everything is best, but wrong in so far as it is obvious that the Lebanese by majority are determined not to allow civil war to return.
BA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11094 posts, RR: 69 Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8277 times:
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