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AIG A Distraction From The Real Problem  
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8952 posts, RR: 24
Posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2673 times:

While everyone was busy talking about the AIG bonus issue (a trivial insignificance which allowed Obama and the Dems to look all outraged at those greedy capitalists - until it looks like they knew all along. Ooops), the real story was happening.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090319/bs_nm/us_markets_stocks_66

in a move that could only have been coordinated by the White House, the Treasury issued a trillion dollars worth of T-Bills yesterday, and they were all bought by the Federal Reserve.

To those of you with little knowledge of economics, that means that the government has simply created a trillion dollars out of thin air, raising the money supply again after having raised it by over 200% in the past two months.

The difference that before, the bills were being exchanged on the open market. Now, for the first time since the 60's, the Treasury is being fueled directly by the Federal Reserve.

All this is supposed to reduce interest rates so that banks can lend again.

HELLO!!! Interest rates are already at rock bottom! Banks aren't lending because 1) people don't want to borrow in a time when government is growing by leaps and bounds, and they know that times are going to be tough for some time, 2) Investors know that taxes are going up, and 2) Banks don't want to make risky loans, following the debacle caused by such lending and the impending possibility that government might write down those loans.

So this increase in the money supply is going to do exactly ZILCH apart from making the dollar worth less over time.

I hope you guys who voted for Obama are proud of yourselves. You voted in a guy who seems determined to turn a recession to complete collapse.

Meanwhile we are still talking about AIG on all the networks. Before that we were distracted by the attacks on Rush. Wanna make a bet that in the next week or two, just as AIG winds down, there is going to be another story put out their to distract us? Bill O'Reilly has a love child with Ann Coulter, perhaps?


Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDragon6172 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2654 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
I hope you guys who voted for Obama are proud of yourselves. You voted in a guy who seems determined to turn a recession to complete collapse.

Eh... he will just say.."Uh... I did not set this....uh... collapse in motion. Ummm.... it was the failed policies of the last... uh... administration." Passing the buck.



Phrogs Phorever
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8952 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2625 times:



Quoting Dragon6172 (Reply 1):
Eh... he will just say.."Uh... I did not set this....uh... collapse in motion. Ummm.... it was the failed policies of the last... uh... administration." Passing the buck.

 redflag  His solutions are making matters worse. It's like driving a car with one foot full on the gas (raising money supply) and the other full on the brakes (talking about tax increases and permenant government spending, inserting uncertainty in debt markets, pushing involuntary unionization, trashing the dollar)

The economy became the sole responsibility of Obama and the Democrats when they tried to use the crisis to further their agenda and push for massive spending that went far, far, FAR beyond stimulus.

You think the Chinese or anyone else is going to loan us any more money after this?

This administration has been a case of a madman at the wheel.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2610 times:

The United States, as a nation, is lost.

We've been lost for about 10 years. The extreme political partisanship and resulting gridlock in Washington, the lies of the previous administration about WMD to justify wars that we can never "win" in the true sense of the word and could never afford, and the Wall Street-Congressional complex (the 21st century version of Eisenhower's military-industrial complex) that breeds corruption and goes against the needs of the average American citizen.

I think that what we need in this country is the rise of a third major political party that will shake the status quo in Washington (and Wall Street) to its core and bring true reform (if not virtually a revolution) to the nation.

[Edited 2009-03-19 17:19:30]


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently onlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5373 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2605 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
While everyone was busy talking about the AIG bonus issue (a trivial insignificance

You really think it's insignifcant that $165 million of our money went to pay bonuses to people who are directly responsible for AIG's collapse?



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8952 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2594 times:



Quoting OA412 (Reply 4):
You really think it's insignifcant that $165 million of our money went to pay bonuses to people who are directly responsible for AIG's collapse?

I prefer to think about the 3 trillion dollars that have been poured down the drain after that. About 20,000 times the size of the AIG bonuses. I'd prefer to think about that first, and then find ways to put the guys who caused this mess in the poorhouse, including the authors of Mark-to-market, Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, among others.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineYWG From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 1147 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2587 times:

Keynesian economic policy is sinking the US economy and delaying the inevitable.

Let the inefficient go bankrupt, serves them right.

And as for AIG....they should have sunk a long time ago.



Contact Winnipeg center now on 134.4, good day.
User currently offlineFlybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2568 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
I hope you guys who voted for Obama are proud of yourselves. You voted in a guy who seems determined to turn a recession to complete collapse.

I think this is a purely partisan statement. I voted for Obama because the alternative was much worse, politically... Palin would have been president in a year if McCain got elected. Palin's views alienate political moderates and her foreign policy views were too extreme-right and hawkish... we would be in nuclear holocaust before the end of her first term.

Thinking that your party or your favorite politician can do no wrong is a dangerous political folly.

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
To those of you with little knowledge of economics, that means that the government has simply created a trillion dollars out of thin air, raising the money supply again after having raised it by over 200% in the past two months.

I am seriously wondering what Obama's people are thinking. For relief of short term pain we are sure in for long term anguish. I think Obama's economic team is killing a fly with a bazooka here. I'm concerned for my financial future, but I'm willing to be in short term pain with the prospect of future prosperity... this trillion dollar "mortgage" has probably wiped out our financial autonomy for the next 5 decades. For crap sake we owe China, of all places more than a trillion dollars which now further errodes our diplomatic influence over them.

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
HELLO!!! Interest rates are already at rock bottom! Banks aren't lending because 1) people don't want to borrow in a time when government is growing by leaps and bounds, and they know that times are going to be tough for some time,

I'm not sure if I agree that people aren't borrowing simply because government has gotten bigger... (I'm sure that was just another partisan injection there).

However, I do agree that times are tough and people aren't borrowing because big ticket items aren't as important as maintaining necessities such as food and shelter in financial crisis. I think rather that bailing out failing companies, our government should focus its strength, influence and dollars on our industries asking how can they can help minimize job losses while promoting efficiency, industriousness and innovation... if that means getting our workforce educated, then so be it... I'd rather see our government spend billions sending Americans to school for free than spending trillions temporarily proping up failing corporations. An educated America will be a competitive and prosperous America... especially if we get people trained up in the tech fields.



"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8289 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2547 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
I hope you guys who voted for Obama are proud of yourselves. You voted in a guy who seems determined to turn a recession to complete collapse.

This "gotcha" stuff accomplishes nothing and it's precisely why straight-line partisanship is so mindless and intellectually dishonest. With only small exceptions here and there, for the GOP, the previous guy could do no wrong. For the Democrats, Obama can do no wrong. Those of us who could care less about either party know one very clear fact at this point: you've all been wrong!

Your charge about being determined to drive collapse is correct but only to a point - the same absolutely could be said of the previous President's results in terms of quelling terror, winning hearts and minds in a critical region of the world, and use of the political capital given to our nation so generously following 9/11. The previous PotUS and the current one eventually justify every single failure with: "I did what I thought is right". Well, sorry, in every case that matters, they've been flat WRONG.

It's time for an all-out popular referendum on the executive and legislative branches - we need leaders who have actually worked, actually have successful business experience, and know A from B outside of billion-page law books that have no meaning in the realia of daily life.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently onlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5373 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2540 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
I'd prefer to think about that first, and then find ways to put the guys who caused this mess in the poorhouse, including the authors of Mark-to-market, Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, among others.

Funny! You mention a couple of Democratic senators but DO NOT mention those at the helm of the companies requesting bailouts, etc. It was their unbridled greed that got us into the mess that we are in. But hey, if partisan bickering and fingerpointing helps you sleep better at night, go right ahead.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2540 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 8):
This "gotcha" stuff accomplishes nothing and it's precisely why straight-line partisanship is so mindless and intellectually dishonest. With only small exceptions here and there, for the GOP, the previous guy could do no wrong. For the Democrats, Obama can do no wrong. Those of us who could care less about either party know one very clear fact at this point: you've all been wrong!

It is all a matter of timing. Fact is Obama is really not equipped to lead in this kind of turmoil. He just doesn't have a clue. I think Bush did something foolish when he bailed out the banks right before he left office. He did it against his normal thinking for two reasons.

1. If he didn't and things went real bad he would be blamed.

2. If he didn't Obama would have most certainly did it anyway.

Now the AIG debacle is mostly due to the fact Obama pushed the bill through and didn't allow anyone to read it and he is also being dishonest when he said he didn't know. This has all just degenerated into the left attacking CEOs which Obama would have done anyway because part of their plan is to turn the lower class against the GOP and make them the scapegoats as to their not having healthcare etc.

Real problem is you can't interfere with people that make big money and tax their bonuses 90% because you screwed up, also you can't bail them out when they screw up and go broke. The floodgates have been open and it's has shown the ugliness in government worse than ever. Listening to Frank and Schumer talk made me ashamed to be an American. For now we blame the people that make a lot of money for our ills. When we should be asking ourselves why we elect the people we do.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8952 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2527 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 8):
The previous PotUS and the current one eventually justify every single failure with: "I did what I thought is right". Well, sorry, in every case that matters, they've been flat WRONG.

I believe Bush was well intentioned when he made his mistakes. I used to be convinced of the same about Obama until a few weeks ago. But the level of incompetance has been so great within his administration, it's starting to look like "creative destruction", in other words, it's intentional. Now I think he is deliberately trying to wreck the economy as badly as possible, possibly in order to have an excuse to rebuild the country the way he wants it - a socialist state. This is exactly the strategy endorsed by his old mentors in his community organizer days - it's nothing new - gain control, bankrupt the economy, blame capitalism, throw out the old rules (like the Constitution), and start from scratch.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 9):
Funny! You mention a couple of Democratic senators but DO NOT mention those at the helm of the companies requesting bailouts, etc.

They got greedy, but the central causes of the meltdown, mark-to-market and the existance of sub-prime mortgages, are 120% the creation of Congress and political hacks at the top.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21864 posts, RR: 55
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2502 times:



Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 7):
I think rather that bailing out failing companies, our government should focus its strength, influence and dollars on our industries asking how can they can help minimize job losses while promoting efficiency, industriousness and innovation... if that means getting our workforce educated, then so be it... I'd rather see our government spend billions sending Americans to school for free than spending trillions temporarily proping up failing corporations. An educated America will be a competitive and prosperous America... especially if we get people trained up in the tech fields.

 checkmark  If we're trying to compete with India and China on low-skilled jobs, we're going to lose, plain and simple. We still have the ability to educate our citizens to a higher level than either of those countries, and it is there that our advantage lies. If we choose to exploit that advantage, it will be a win for everyone.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20336 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2493 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
people don't want to borrow in a time when government is growing by leaps and bounds, and they know that times are going to be tough for some time,

If your hot water heater dies tomorrow, you'll blame it on big government.

The mantra is getting tired, Dreadnought.


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2485 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
The mantra is getting tired, Dreadnought.

I think we need to go somewhere else for a chat away from the incessant noise from those jackhammers!!  chat 


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8289 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2468 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 11):
Now I think he is deliberately trying to wreck the economy as badly as possible, possibly in order to have an excuse to rebuild the country the way he wants it - a socialist state. This is exactly the strategy endorsed by his old mentors in his community organizer days - it's nothing new - gain control, bankrupt the economy, blame capitalism, throw out the old rules (like the Constitution), and start from scratch.

I'm sorry, as jaded and cynical as I am, I just can't buy anything of that sort without something more concrete than a gut feeling. I chalk it up to the inexperience that many who didn't vote for him, including myself, were concerned about. The added fun factor has been Bush-like loyalty to his newly minted staffers, regardless of how knuckle-dragged they've turned out to already be. So for me, this administration is simply more of the same, just singing a different tune badly out of key. Is it so much to ask for a leader I can like? Hated Bush foreign policy, liked his economic policy. Like Obama foreign policy, am absolutely terrified about Geithner, his handling of the banks and this wanton release of T-bills into the wind.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineGeekydude From China, joined Apr 2004, 401 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2450 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
So this increase in the money supply is going to do exactly ZILCH apart from making the dollar worth less over time.

How can you be so sure? This is actually a great time to print money given that the inflation pressure is now very low. If not now, when? Ben Benenke is a great scholar who specializes in depression economics. He understands that the central bank needs to have ample supply of money to combat a downward spiral of unemployment and deflation as happened in the late 1920's.

Yes, printing money out of thin air is not a long term solution. A nation's economic well-being ultimately rests on the productivity of its labor force. But in the short term, monetary policies do have effects in dampening economic cycles. Well I know that those of the Austrian school of economics would beg to differ.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
You think the Chinese or anyone else is going to loan us any more money after this?

China and the US are locked in a somewhat mutually assured economic destruction if either party acts too foolishly. As the saying goes, if you owe the bank 1000 bucks, they own you; if you owe the bank 1000000 bucks, you own them. So yeah I believe China will continue to buy US Treasury securties as long as you guys don't print too much money. A few hundred billions here and there during time of crisis may not do much harm to the value of the dollar due to the sheer size the US economy. Just don't make a habit of pumping trillions.



FLIB 152 'heavy' low approach...Caution wake turbulance!
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2428 times:



Quoting Geekydude (Reply 16):
China and the US are locked in a somewhat mutually assured economic destruction if either party acts too foolishly. As the saying goes, if you owe the bank 1000 bucks, they own you; if you owe the bank 1000000 bucks, you own them. So yeah I believe China will continue to buy US Treasury securties as long as you guys don't print too much money. A few hundred billions here and there during time of crisis may not do much harm to the value of the dollar due to the sheer size the US economy. Just don't make a habit of pumping trillions.

Sums it up nicely.  checkmark 


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13197 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

To me, there are several problems with the extreme focus on the bonuses and AIG by the media.
One, it oversimplifies the complexity of the financial crises, create a narrow group of scapegoats. That leads to narrow ways of dealing with it.
Two, it ignores how this economic crises was caused by a wide range of people, from politicans who failed to put in or retain necessary regulations in such companies.
Three, it moves attention away from the vicitms, those losing jobs and their houses rather than finding ways to help them.
Four, you have politicans creating populist driven and possibly unconsitutional laws in a rush like to severely tax large bonues of employees at a number of companies getting TARP funds. It is such rushing that got us the bailout bills that were overly blolated to the point that they were unreadable in the time given and allowed a lack of key parts like to regulate bonus payments.
Fifth, as the inital poster noted, huge decisions with serious ramifications and questions are being done under the cover of the media obsession with AIG.


User currently offlineCasInterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4792 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2395 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
So this increase in the money supply is going to do exactly ZILCH apart from making the dollar worth less over time.

This is what has to happen.

As I have been saying all along. Offshoring of our Manufacturing and Service Industries, is not only prolinging our current plight, but forbidding a recovery.


We need to either devalue the dollar or put up protectionist rulings to protect jobs in the US.
The Business world wants to be part of the world economy, therefore the US worker has to be able to compete.

So now we are going to throw as much cash as we can out there. It will cause inflation in the US and the lowering of dollar .

But that is what is needed due to everyones loving support of Free Trade and Globalization



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineCasInterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4792 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2392 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 12):
If we're trying to compete with India and China on low-skilled jobs, we're going to lose, plain and simple. We still have the ability to educate our citizens to a higher level than either of those countries, and it is there that our advantage lies. If we choose to exploit that advantage, it will be a win for everyone.

We are going to loose the whitel collar jobs for the same reason.

Offshoring and Free trade mean that the dollar isn't worth what it was .

Microsoft, Intel, IBM, Accenture, JP Morgan, Citibank, and countless other companies all have people doing Highly skilled design work in locations other than Europe and the US.

The Folks that believe the US is going to educate itself to match the value of the dollar are kidding themselves.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineUs330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3877 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2383 times:



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 3):
The United States, as a nation, is lost

I wouldn't go that far, but I would say that we have been on the wrong path for quite some time now.

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 3):
I think that what we need in this country is the rise of a third major political party that will shake the status quo in Washington (and Wall Street) to its core and bring true reform (if not virtually a revolution) to the nation.

I've been saying that for quite some time. First people who should be forced to resign are anyone that is currently serving in Congress, or has done so within the past 10 years.
I find it incredibly hypocritical that while Congress calls for the heads of some of these companies that have screwed up (and rightfully so--I don't mean to excuse the idiot ceo's), they themselves have yet to offer their resignation, even though they were in part responsible for some of this mess (I'm looking at you, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and anybody else involved with Fannie and Freddie).

Quoting OA412 (Reply 4):
You really think it's insignifcant that $165 million of our money went to pay bonuses to people who are directly responsible for AIG's collapse?

It's all relative. I don't think that 165 million, by itself, is insignificant. I do think it is insignificant when compared to the billions and trillions of dollars put forth as a stimulus package.

165 million is not even 1% of 1 trillion, yet for some reason this is garnering all of the attention

Quoting YWG (Reply 6):
Let the inefficient go bankrupt, serves them right.

And as for AIG....they should have sunk a long time ago

I would normally agree with you, but the problem is that if we had let them go bankrupt, we all would have been screwed. Everybody. Our financial system would have virtually collapsed. That's the only reason why I was in favor of their bailout.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 8):
Those of us who could care less about either party know one very clear fact at this point: you've all been wrong!



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 8):
It's time for an all-out popular referendum on the executive and legislative branches - we need leaders who have actually worked, actually have successful business experience, and know A from B outside of billion-page law books that have no meaning in the realia of daily life.

Agree with both of your highlighted points. The worst thing in Washington today is how blatantly partisanship influences all decisions.

Quoting Mir (Reply 12):
We still have the ability to educate our citizens to a higher level than either of those countries, and it is there that our advantage lies. If we choose to exploit that advantage, it will be a win for everyone.

Don't laugh, but our educational system, once you get past the high school level, is our greatest strength. Our undergraduate and graduate schools as a whole are the best in the world, and we need to figure out how to maximize this to our advantage. Heck, people pay to come to the U.S. to get educated!
Expand student visas and academic outreach programs. It is to our benefit to see that our own citizens are interacting with other nations' best and brightest citizens, and it is even better when it occurs on our turf, where the foreigners' spending on books, food, and living necessities and the like directly benefits American businesses.

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 19):
We need to either devalue the dollar or put up protectionist rulings to protect jobs in the US.
The Business world wants to be part of the world economy, therefore the US worker has to be able to compete.

protectionism is economic suicide, and only hurts those that it intends to help. I'd take devaluing the dollar over that option in a hearbeat.


User currently offlineCasInterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4792 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2379 times:



Quoting Us330 (Reply 21):
protectionism is economic suicide, and only hurts those that it intends to help. I'd take devaluing the dollar over that option in a hearbeat.

It's not suicide if the economy is strong enough to produce what it needs on it's own. Without protectionism, we are selling out capitalism to the Communists.

China doesn't care about workers rights, the environment, or fair trials, however the US worker constantly looses jobs to that country because CEO's find it easy to circumvent US laws by hiring slave labor.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11796 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2360 times:

I wonder if the whole bailout and AIG debacle is a set-up by the same people that want the North American Union? Someone may come out and claim that the United States can not survive on it's own and Mexico needs troops to control the drug gangs, so why don't our two countries combine? They will, somehow, figure a way to spin it so Canada wants to join as well. Didn't all the AIG payments start under the Bush administration?


Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2410 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2322 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 11):
But the level of incompetance has been so great within his administration, it's starting to look like "creative destruction", in other words, it's intentional. Now I think he is deliberately trying to wreck the economy as badly as possible, possibly in order to have an excuse to rebuild the country the way he wants it - a socialist state.

And what type of state were the banks, exotic debt vehicle pushers and real estate loan bundlers trying to form? Chaos? Seems they are the ones pushing us up the socialistic trail. "It's all mine when things are good, but we need it to be all yours when things go bad."

If we are bailing out AIG, then we are bailing out their obligations and that would include those contracts calling for the bonuses. Don't like that, then bankrupt them.

The airlines learned a long time ago, that is a good way to reset the clock. And get rid of labor contracts you don't like. Airlines, ahead of their time.


25 Falcon84 : In the long run, the bonus issue isn't a huge deal. But AIG's continuing arrogance and spending taxpayer money to wine/dine/"reward" bigwigs IS as sig
26 Dreadnought : One thing I've wondered the past few months - If some business tells me, "we need money" the first thing I would want to see is their financial state
27 StasisLAX : The AIG bonus nightmare could deliver a double-slam to plans to help the U.S. economy. AIG's decision to pay $165 million in executive bonuses will m
28 Seb146 : Like the failure of capitalism under Eisenhower and Kennedy and Nixon and Johnson? Why is no one blaming Bush when he was telling Amerians to just ke
29 Dreadnought : Today's Democratic party have little to do with the party of Kennedy or even Johnson. He said that right after an attack on American soil, and coinci
30 Post contains links StasisLAX : And it gets even worse. The $165 million amount for AIG bonuses was completely wrong. The actual amount of the bonuses totals at least $218 million, a
31 Baroque : What is wrong with pushing affordable housing? Seems mean spirited and equally mean minded not to do so. However, suggesting it is a good idea is a fa
32 Dreadnought : Affordable Housing was a euphimism for an attempt to engineer the system to make housing cheaper than it really should be. The great irony is that th
33 Post contains links Baroque : Let me help you out on the criminal records part. http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ums/non_aviation/read.main/1977327 From Sept 2008 Thread sta
34 Seb146 : Likewise, today's Republican party has little to do with Eisenhower or Nixon. Part of the "housing bubble" in Oregon is that people from California a
35 Dreadnought : Sounds like it was the Florida state regulatory authorities who were at fault there. As the article mentioned. those people should not have passed mu
36 Seb146 : Right. Like all those attacks from Iraq and all those WMDs that were found in Iraq. Yes, I remember them so well. What I remember hearing most out of
37 EMBQA : Eeer aah.. no it is not. It the failed policies of the Clinton Administration that pushed and allowed these weak mortages to be offered and sold to a
38 Post contains links Dreadnought : Again the gross oversimplification which has been the subject of hundreds of threads. Let's leave that one. Here's some excerpts from 2004 that shoul
39 EMBQA : I wonder how many of those 15,000 loans that were written are now in default...?
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Importing A Car From The US To Canada? posted Fri Sep 19 2008 13:47:01 by Trav110
My Cousin Retired From The Air Force After 26yrs posted Wed Sep 3 2008 18:36:29 by MCOflyer