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GM Chief Wagoner To Step Down  
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3014 times:

GM chief Wagoner to step down as part of Obama auto plan


WASHINGTON -- General Motors Corp. Chairman and Chief Executive Richard Wagoner will step down immediately as part of President Barack Obama's aid plan for the automaker, a person familiar said today.

http://www.freep.com/article/2009032...ep+down+as+part+of+Obama+auto+plan

88 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3005 times:

Well its about damn time that Ricky quit. Bob Lutz announced his retirement recently too, so I guess the rats are finally jumping ship.   

As a corporate CEO, Ricky's primary job function was to provide strategic leadership for GM. A huge part of that strategic leadership is the ability to forecast market trends, have well-developed contingency plans, and catering your product development to meet the needs of consumers.

Wagoner & Lutz and their dismal executive team failed miserably in providing that leadership. Bill Ford realized that he needed someone that could provide strong strategic leadership, and was intelligent enough to step aside and let Alan Mulally run the show at Ford Motor Co.

[Edited 2009-03-29 15:08:16]


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5093 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3005 times:

It's about time he steps down.


Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2993 times:

Pretty much all Rick's priorities, his long range statements / policy statements have been wrong, and he has been forced to take them back. For example, he once said it was (?) "dangerous" for GM's senior leadership to quit at this time, as if he is so valuable and positive for GM. Guess what, nobody agrees with that. He's not been smart enough to protect GM from its worst dangers. Instead, he has let GM weaken for many years, because he does not understand the car business. He sucks!

User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2972 times:

OK, the New York Times is reporting that Wagoner was forced out by the Obama Administration.

"Mr. Wagoner was asked, and agreed to, step down as part of G.M.’s restructuring agreement with the Obama administration, according to an administration official who spoke on condition of anonymity because a formal announcement has not been made yet.

The unexpected move by Mr. Wagoner, who has been at the helm of G.M. for eight years, was not confirmed by the company. A statement about Mr. Wagoner’s future will be issued after the president’s comments, which is expected to be Monday morning."

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/30/business/30auto.html?_r=1&hp

And heads are also rolling at Peugeot where Christian Streiff (formerly head of Airbus) is being forced out as the CEO.

"The company, the No. 2 European carmaker, after Volkswagen, said that Philippe Varin, chief executive of the Anglo-Dutch steel company Corus, would replace Christian Streiff, who is stepping down immediately.

“Given the extraordinary difficulties currently faced by the automotive industry, the supervisory board decided unanimously that a change in the senior leadership position was necessary,” Thierry Peugeot, chairman of the board, said. “I am confident that under the leadership of Philippe Varin, the group will be able, with all the teams, to unlock its potential.”

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/30/business/global/30peugeot.html?hp

[Edited 2009-03-29 15:50:43]

[Edited 2009-03-29 15:52:33]


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2962 times:

Hahaha. Fired by the president. That's pretty awful for poor Rick. But what did he expect? He never apologized for anything. He seemed like a good accountant whose strategic decisions were like a book of "what not to do."

User currently onlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8951 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2936 times:

First of all, I have no problem canning these CEOs who could not/would not make the tough decisions early enough to avoid disaster for their companies.

But I question heavily the precedent that this is setting - the idea that government is telling a private business how it should be run.

And the absolute scandal of all this is the relative competence of who's getting fired and who's wagging the finger and doing the firing.

GM's annual revenue is around $200 billion, and the lost $30 billion last year. They are upside down by 15%

The US Government this year will have $2.1 trillion, and will spend $3.9 trillion. Upside down by a whopping 80% !

So when does Congress get fired? (Note also that Congress votes itself nice raises every year and has given itself the most lucrative pension scheme in the country - 2 years of work and lifetime salary and benefits.)

THAT is the scandal. But this administration is proving awfully good at distracting your attention on other 'villains', like Rush or the AIG executives, who are babes in diapers compared to Congress when it comes to reckless and irresponsible behavior.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineIflykpdx From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 287 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2923 times:

Well the government, unlike GM, is not a for-profit business, so its goals are very different.

Also, once your company receives, and indeed relies on billions of dollars of tax-payer money, I think the government has the right to tell you what to do. Were it not for the government, no one at GM would have a job to get canned from anymore!



Airport Management - UND
User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2908 times:

I rather doubt he'll have to look for a job at Wal-Mart anytime soon.


"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2901 times:

Let's not forget his arms were tied at the behest of the UAW. Which is a good part of the reason GM lost money for the last 20 years. Sure this guy did a crap job of running GM but the UAW didn't make life easy for anyone.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
But I question heavily the precedent that this is setting - the idea that government is telling a private business how it should be run.

I have concerns about this too but one has to remember that if the government does bail them out with huge amounts of taxpayer dollars they have to have control over the company. It doesn't work any other way. Either don't give them money or give it to them and take over. As long as this doesn't cross over to companies that are not asking for money I have no issue with it.


User currently offlineVega9000 From Portugal, joined Aug 2006, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2901 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
But I question heavily the precedent that this is setting - the idea that government is telling a private business how it should be run.

There wouldn't be a precedent if they didn't need government money in the first place. If a government invests, especially if it's a critical investment, they should have a say about who's running the company. A company can't just beg the government for money, and then expect to be left alone running business as usual.
The point is, if the government bails you out, you're not a private company anymore.

In my view, I think the Obama administration is handling this just right. Give them the money to protect the larger economy, but make it as unpleasant as possible so they realize that bad management has consequences.

Quoting Iflykpdx (Reply 7):
Were it not for the government, no one at GM would have a job to get canned from anymore!

Exactly.  checkmark 



Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.
User currently offlineDtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1173 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2889 times:



Quoting Vega9000 (Reply 10):
The point is, if the government bails you out, you're not a private company anymore.

Does that also include banks. I don't see any heads rolling there. The double standards of Obama and his cronies continues

Quoting Vega9000 (Reply 10):
In my view, I think the Obama administration is handling this just right.

Right in the direction of Socialism


User currently onlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8951 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2885 times:



Quoting Iflykpdx (Reply 7):
Well the government, unlike GM, is not a for-profit business, so its goals are very different.

And what happens to a non-profit business if they overspend by 80%? Usually, someone goes to jail.

Granted, they aren't supposed to make a profit, but at least try to come a bit closer to breakeven... 1.8 TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT guys! How do you people just blow that off? Is it that you can't comprehend the numbers?

Let me illustrate. $1.8 Trillion in brand new $100 dollar bills would take up 718,000 cubic feet of space - that's the size of a large warehouse - and weigh 18,400 tons - the weight of two modern US Navy destroyers.

If they were $1 bills, It would be enough to fill up that NASA Saturn Assembly building (until recently the biggest enclosed space in the world), from floor to ceiling, and weigh 1.84 million tons - the weight of 18 Nimitz-class aircraft carriers.

And it's all money 'borrowed' from our kids - or at least they will have to pay it back.

I once knew a guy who pilfered his own kids' college funds so that he could gammble and play with hookers. Once it became known what he had done, he was of course ostracized by everyone in his family, not to mention divorced and fired from his job.

What's the difference with what is happening now?



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently onlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8951 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2879 times:



Quoting Vega9000 (Reply 10):
There wouldn't be a precedent if they didn't need government money in the first place

They DON'T need the government. Declare bankruptcy, clean house, rightsize the company, and there you go - no need for government.

This is just a bailout for the UAW.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6674 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2874 times:
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Quoting Flighty (Reply 5):
Fired by the president. That's pretty awful for poor Rick. But what did he expect?

If he had been with AIG, he would have expected a bonus.

Quoting Iflykpdx (Reply 7):

Also, once your company receives, and indeed relies on billions of dollars of tax-payer money, I think the government has the right to tell you what to do. Were it not for the government, no one at GM would have a job to get canned from anymore!

Agreed!

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):
I once knew a guy who pilfered his own kids' college funds so that he could gammble and play with hookers. Once it became known what he had done, he was of course ostracized by everyone in his family, not to mention divorced and fired from his job.

What's the difference with what is happening now?

If you truly do not see the difference - then you have just proved that you do not understand the situation.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2863 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
But I question heavily the precedent that this is setting - the idea that government is telling a private business how it should be run.

It will be interesting to see who replaces him and who picks that person. This indeed sets a bad precedent if he is replaced by a party apparatchik.

Quoting Vega9000 (Reply 10):
There wouldn't be a precedent if they didn't need government money in the first place.

No one forced them to take it.

Quoting Vega9000 (Reply 10):
Exactly.

 redflag  They would have been better off going into bankruptcy. Then they could have dealt with the UAW as they need to be dealt with now


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21864 posts, RR: 55
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2843 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
So when does Congress get fired?

When the people vote to fire them.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 9):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
But I question heavily the precedent that this is setting - the idea that government is telling a private business how it should be run.

I have concerns about this too but one has to remember that if the government does bail them out with huge amounts of taxpayer dollars they have to have control over the company.

 checkmark  If GM didn't want to have to deal with working under the restrictions of the government, they shouldn't have asked the government for bailout money.

The day Obama starts telling self-sustaining companies how they should be run, I'll be all too happy to protest. But this isn't that day.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2832 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 16):
If GM didn't want to have to deal with working under the restrictions of the government, they shouldn't have asked the government for bailout money.

The day Obama starts telling self-sustaining companies how they should be run, I'll be all too happy to protest. But this isn't that day.

Self-sustaining WELL MANAGED firms that are profitable - I can't agree more.

However, I also must stress that the U.S. auto industry bail-out should force the Big Three (well, Big 2.5 now) to purchase auto parts made here in the U.S.. I want my tax dollars to help support other Americans at all levels of the industry!  grumpy 



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13197 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2812 times:

First of all, I hope that Wagoner and any other 'departing' executives now and in the future from GM, Chrysler, and any bank or financial company getting TARP monies get no 'golden parachutes' and little or no pension. They have already gotten too much compensation without sufficient reasoning in the past.
Wagoner kept pushing Hummer when he should been pushing hybrids. He wouldn't take on the UAW. While Olds brand got ditched, he kept too many models and other brands in GM. Unlike at Ford, he really didn't try to shut down more plants or improve efficiency of GM. I have a strong belief that no CEO should be in power for more than 5 years as after that, they tend to get too comfortable in their positions, the executive structures get stale and start to make too many bad decisions. Wagoner has been the CEO of GM since 2003. Time for a change. I hope this is a start of the march into retirement of many CEO's and other top executives as well as their too friendly Board Members. Those that replace them will have to take much lower salaries and bonuses to be tied to long term performance of the companies.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2806 times:



Quoting Vega9000 (Reply 10):
Give them the money to protect the larger economy, but make it as unpleasant as possible so they realize that bad management has consequences.

Makes sense but government has to let them know that they just can't be greedy and expect to be bailed out. Sets a bad example.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
They DON'T need the government. Declare bankruptcy, clean house, rightsize the company, and there you go - no need for government

I agree but thanks to CNN and the far left all of a sudden the world would end if GM declared bankruptcy, which we all know was complete crap and was just another way to attack free market.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
This is just a bailout for the UAW.

Remains to be seen if Obama makes the UAW give up what they need to but I think even the UAW saw that if they didn't budge the company would be gone.

Quoting DXing (Reply 15):
They would have been better off going into bankruptcy. Then they could have dealt with the UAW as they need to be dealt with now

This is a given but the UAW waited for the election to be over and Obama to be in office. They saw that CNN had scared the public into thinking the country would collapse if GM had to file bankruptcy so they thought they were home free. Glad this wasn't the case. In the end I think everyone knew that through many factors GM was losing money and would continue to do so unless things were drastically changed. It was a pissing contest that the UAW thought they could win.

Quoting Mir (Reply 16):
If GM didn't want to have to deal with working under the restrictions of the government, they shouldn't have asked the government for bailout money.

Again don't forget they felt that as soon as Obama was in power they would get a blank check. When they saw this wasn't going to happen the UAW and the company had to play ball or the alternative was being on the beach.

Quoting Mir (Reply 16):
The day Obama starts telling self-sustaining companies how they should be run, I'll be all too happy to protest. But this isn't that day.

I doubt that will ever happen remember that Obama is seizing this economic situation to deflect attention away from his far left stance on just about everything, He constantly proclaims how he inherited this and that he has to do things in a way and in a hurry. Once things recover he won't have this luxury and I doubt he will try that. His presidency is already not going as planned and he has to change things in a hurry or he will be a one termer.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 18):
Wagoner kept pushing Hummer when he should been pushing hybrids

Hybrids are not the answer to GMs problems in fact if you look at the enviorment once gas came back down to 2 bucks a gallon you will see that this green, hybrid mantra is a totally fantasy. GM's competition still sell trucks, cars and SUVs. They just build better cars for far less cost and don't have to bow to a union that constantly has their hand out.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 18):
I have a strong belief that no CEO should be in power for more than 5 years as after that, they tend to get too comfortable in their positions,

Too bad this doesn't go for the senate we wouldn't have to look at Ted Kennedy.  biggrin 


User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2802 times:

Here's some news from inside the D.C. beltway:

"On Monday, President Barack Obama is to unveil his plans for the auto industry, including a response to a request for additional funds by GM and Chrysler. The plan is based on recommendations from the Presidential Task Force on the Auto Industry, headed by the Treasury Department.

The White House confirmed Wagoner was leaving at the government's behest after The Associated Press reported his immediate departure, without giving a reason.

General Motors issued a vague statement Sunday night that did not officially confirm Wagoner's departure.

"We are anticipating an announcement soon from the Administration regarding the restructuring of the U.S. auto industry. We continue to work closely with members of the Task Force and it would not be appropriate for us to speculate on the content of any announcement," the company said."

Source: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/20625.html



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3410 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2785 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
But I question heavily the precedent that this is setting - the idea that government is telling a private business how it should be run.

As said when you get government bailouts you play by their rules, none of us can dictate the terms of a loan to a bank when we ask them for money so why should this be any different.

If you don't want the government getting involved like this then man up and go into Chapter 11 and turn away a bailout if offered one. An example of this is states with conservative governors that are turning away federal stimulus money because they don't want or fear the feds taking over which when you give money that is not a donation you have the right to do.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2755 times:



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 20):
"We are anticipating an announcement soon from the Administration regarding the restructuring of the U.S. auto industry. We continue to work closely with members of the Task Force and it would not be appropriate for us to speculate on the content of any announcement," the company said

Just read that Obama will give GM 2 months worth of financing to restructure. Though I don't know what that will do.


User currently offlineLufthansa411 From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 692 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2755 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 19):
Hybrids are not the answer to GMs problems in fact if you look at the enviorment once gas came back down to 2 bucks a gallon you will see that this green, hybrid mantra is a totally fantasy. GM's competition still sell trucks, cars and SUVs. They just build better cars for far less cost and don't have to bow to a union that constantly has their hand out.

I beg to differ. At least here in the Northeast, truck and SUV sales have gone down the toilet. My mom went to look at cars the other day, and the trucks, minivans and large SUVs were all heavily discounted. No one wants to buy them in this economy. Gas may be cheaper, but during a recession, the disposable income people had to spend on gas is spent on other more important things.

And although gas is cheap now, people are worried that it will climb back up to the price levels that it it was at last April or May. Never mind people purchasing vehicles from companies like VW to subtly protest the big 3.



Nothing in life is to be feared; it is only to be understood.
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2807 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2750 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 9):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
But I question heavily the precedent that this is setting - the idea that government is telling a private business how it should be run.

I have concerns about this too but one has to remember that if the government does bail them out with huge amounts of taxpayer dollars they have to have control over the company. It doesn't work any other way. Either don't give them money or give it to them and take over. As long as this doesn't cross over to companies that are not asking for money I have no issue with it.

 checkmark 
I'm getting very concerned that I've recently found myself agreeing with NIKV69 and Dreadnought more often than usual.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 19):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
They DON'T need the government. Declare bankruptcy, clean house, rightsize the company, and there you go - no need for government

I agree but thanks to CNN and the far left all of a sudden the world would end if GM declared bankruptcy, which we all know was complete crap and was just another way to attack free market.

Nevermind.  Wink

Would you buy a car from a company that might not be able to emerge from bankruptcy, leaving you with a worthless warranty? I wouldn't unless someone else is going to back the warranty. The only group with the money and lack of intelligence to do such a thing is the government, meaning the government is needed for a bankruptcy to work.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
25 IgneousRocks : Dreadnought fires the salvo that hits its mark. Even more telling that "Cardcheck" looks to be facing an uphill battle for passage - thankfully.
26 Ken777 : Now if only the politicians only understand that Alan is one of the good guys. The problem with a Ch 11 us that people would stop buying GM cars for
27 Post contains links StasisLAX : It's been confirmed that Fritz Henderson will take over CEO duties at General Motors, but only on an INTERIM basis accord to the Detroit News website:
28 Mir : If they are self-sustaining, then the well-managed tends to be a given. Perhaps. But they were wrong, and he did the right thing by not giving them o
29 LTBEWR : What is getting me and others angry is that Pres. Obama is dictating terms and conditions to GM and Chrysler that he won't upon the banks and financia
30 N801NW : AIG's CEO was dismissed. Ed Liddy was recruited by Hank Paulson to wrap up AIG and he works for $1 a year. That said, I agree with your broader point
31 Post contains links Dreadnought : Some more details: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090330/bs_nm/us_autos_taskforce U.S. autos task force rejects GM, Chrysler plans By Kevin Krolicki Kev
32 NIKV69 : Great point but it is a cycle like anything else. A friend of mine owns a Nissan dealership and during the gas price spike sales of his SUVs tanked a
33 DucatiRacer : Personally, I don't see anything about Wagoner's dismissal being inconsistent with the conditions that were put on the auto industry bailout recipient
34 Flighty : Agreed!! Very weird.. I was thinking Doug Steenland might be good. That's certainly GM's #1 challenge. We need to allow for the possibility that the
35 N801NW : I had been thinking the same thing. He's available, in the area, has a Democratic Party connection, and doesn't mind being unpopular.
36 StasisLAX : I think that the board of directors of GM will use that time to develop a pre-packaged bankruptcy. GM needs to lose dealerships across the board (why
37 Alias1024 : I don't think it's about political contributions. It is about Americans that are angry at having to bailout these big corporations and want some retr
38 NIKV69 : I think GM needs to do many things to get into a state where they can survive and pay their debts. Going to be an interesting two months.
39 Post contains links and images StasisLAX : Wagoner is laughing all the way to the bank. His retirement plan is worth $20.2 Million - after GM has lost $80 Billion in the last several years. The
40 Mt99 : Right He is probably happy! "You can keep this mess. I am out of here!"
41 Post contains links DXing : The reasoning given was that no one would buy the cars based on the fear they would go out of business and not be able to fulfill their warranty obli
42 NIKV69 : Not a done deal, the board has to vote on it. He has to get something he has been with the company 30 years and truth be told the UAW has had more to
43 DocLightning : How about 2 million?
44 Ken777 : He's going to "stay on in an undefined job for $1 a year job" in order to avoid this situation. If he's still around after we get through the mess (h
45 MillwallSean : Well even the government were able to see that GM plans were not sustainable. The Volt has been used as some form of propaganda tool and wont live up
46 DXing : A judge in a bankruptcy court after the company has filed. Here we have a sitting President of the United States setting precedent. The government di
47 Seb146 : Question about AIG: Isn't that company so diverse that simply telling one person to leave would not even come close to solving their problems? I mean
48 DXing : According to whom?
49 Post contains links Mt99 : Businessweek ..oldish article.. but gets the job done, http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/jun2001/nf2001066_900.htm "That compares to SUV ma
50 Flighty : That was true for a brief time. Probably still true for the Escalade. But GM failed financially. To say they make good profits, is to ignore their $8
51 Mt99 : They forgot about it already Dow Jones Industrial Average 7,663.63 +141.61 / +1.88% Mar 31 1:12pm ET †
52 Post contains links DXing : I should have clarified that I meant the second half of that question Never mind, this article is more up to date and where are the hybrids that "peo
53 Flighty : Hybrids would be what people want if Obama had the idea to tax gasoline, but of course people are not mature enough to handle that. At $4.50 gas, then
54 DXing : Cap and trade baby, it's coming. If you can't sell people on buying them, tax them into it!
55 Post contains links Sv7887 : They aren't exactly the most efficient way. Clean Diesel is probably the most efficient way to go. The Jetta TDI has won numerous awards for being a
56 Flighty : Yeah, hybrids aren't correct for everything (not useful on highway). But they are ideal for urban and suburban commuting. They don't need explicit he
57 DXing : The State of Texas, as one example, is 892 miles from Orange to El Paso. Much of that 892 miles is open country. Exactly where in Europe do they have
58 DXing : Finally Jon Stewart had a piece I actually thought was funny. Can't find a you tube link but the gist was a montage of everything the President has sa
59 Allrite : From what I read coming out of the US and observed in the Australian subsidiaries was that the US manufacturers were arrogant when it came to their p
60 Post contains links Sv7887 : It wasn't about arrogance. People in the US didn't want small cars, and that was only highlighted by the recent shift back to SUVs instead of cars. R
61 Post contains links and images Dreadnought : You do know of course that the Federal government will probably boycott Ford. I will be interested to see if Ford gets any new fleet purchases from t
62 Allrite : My question would be how much GM, Ford and Chrysler financially depended on sales of the big cars in comparison to the other manufacturers. How nimbl
63 Post contains links Sv7887 : Genius that good old Barney. Nice way to chase away the A-talent to other organizations. Given the relative dearth of experienced derivatives special
64 Post contains links Sv7887 : Oh I understand your post better now. You're right on this one, they weren't nimble at all, which is why they got caught flatfooted. Chrysler had it
65 LOT767-300ER : Anyone find it ironic that out of Obamas auto task force of 18 people only 2 own American cars? Anyone else find it ironic that on February 17th Obama
66 Mt99 : It highlights the problem, no? The Auto Makers CEOs themselves used private jets to go to Congress. I didnt know that Chevy made a corporate jet.
67 Post contains images PHLBOS : That might be one reason why Ford is launching a Fusion Hybrid model in the first place (which posts better mileage than any other domestic hybrid ou
68 Seb146 : According to the people I hear being interviewed and those that I personally talk to. I guess they don't count, though. I wonder how that survey you
69 DXing : Sure they count, but is what all the people want? You talk to all the people? A question I asked as well. That they lumped all the Camry's together e
70 Seb146 : I tend to take any survey with a huge grain of salt anyway. Results from some companies do not mesh with what I personally encounter. It could be the
71 Sv7887 : Just look at the sales numbers from the manufacturers since they are the best indicator of what's going on. Product planning decisions (such as what
72 Flighty : That's a matter of tax policy. If the govt wants to promote American cars and never tax gasoline beyond a pittance, then of course the result will be
73 Seb146 : Depends. They could get a really good marketing department and remind everyone daily of the high gas prices and how far ahead of the curve consumers
74 DXing : I have a feeling if they couldn't afford a regular version, a hybrid or biodiesel version would be out of the question. Let's see, last year at this
75 Seb146 : Forecasts here have gas going higher than that. Plus, with unemployment at the highest levels in decades, that makes gasoline expensive. One of those
76 Post contains links DXing : Even further reinforcement that if they can't afford a regular car a hybrid is pretty much out of the question. EIA only shows a 4 cent difference be
77 Dtwclipper : Actually, I believe Fritz Henderson is preparing GM for a trip to Ch.11. It is really only a matter of time now. Life as the 5 Million people in S.E.
78 PHLBOS : That could be dependent upon whether Obama and company are successful in ramming this Cap & Trade BS (which will ultimately bring back high energy pr
79 Seb146 : These are things I did not know. Thank you for educating me. But, also, if a person is spending, let's say $50 a week on gasoline, wouldn't they be s
80 PHLBOS : Yes; but then again, and I mentioned this in my previous post, fuel is NOT the only cost entity in overall vehicle ownership.
81 DucatiRacer : Additionally, several hybrid vehicles utilize the hybrid system for a performance advantage, rather than to make them "Green." For example, the Lexus
82 DXing : Anything dealing with 2008 would not be a forecast elsewise I would be the best weatherman in the business. For 2009 gulf coast is projected at $1.43
83 Seb146 : True. Oil changes, tires, fluid changes and adding, as well as if transmission goes out or if a car hits a deer or some such thing. But, the first re
84 PHLBOS : While the cost at the pump would certainly motivate one's decision towards whether to get a hybrid, biodiesel or whatever; one NEEDS to estimate the
85 DXing : You are correct. I did not scan across correctly. Still a lot cheaper than this time last year.
86 Seb146 : Yeah, I know. I had to stare at the d*mn graph till my eyes crossed. I had someone else even look at it! Couldn't they use another color besides yell
87 PHLBOS : The key phrase in your post is feel that they are doing better; which is absolute hooey IMHO because their wallets are probably STILL lighter due to
88 Flighty : Fuel efficiency is about more than whether the operator is happy to pay the bill. There is a thing called energy policy that seeks to ask questions de
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