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New VW Passat To Battle C-Class & 3 Series!  
User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3286 posts, RR: 6
Posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Volkswagen's next-generation 2011 Passat is expected to up the stakes against Germany’s luxury carmakers, with the car’s designers hoping it will be mentioned in the same breath as BMW 3-Series and Mercedes Benz C-Class as VW sees them as the new Passat's key competitors.

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2011 VW Passat sedan


Under the hood, a replacement for the VR6 engine will be in place, putting out close to 300hp. The new engine will utilize direct injection while other Passat versions will include a new Bluemotion hybrid as well as an all-wheel drive diesel.

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Expected to debut in late 2011, the next-generation Passat is rumored to feature a host of new technologies. In 2012, the Passat station wagon will be launched. This will be followed closely by a new high-performance Passat model to replace the current R36.

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2012 VW Passat Sportwagon


Source: http://www.motorauthority.com/preview-2011-volkswagen-passat.html

While the next-gen Passat is definitely better looking then the current garden-variety Passat (and I'm definitely a fan of the next-gen station wagon's looks) I must question VW's marketing strategy. Why are the positioning the Passat to compete again the 3-series and the C-class? I thought that the excellent Audi A4/A6 was supposed to fight the C-class and 3-series in the marketplace?  confused 


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBrendan03 From Australia, joined Aug 2005, 951 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Man, That's a nice looking car.
I had a look at the current model Passat and found it a very nice car,
My friend thought it was the nicest car on display which after thinking about it, I couldn't really argue with him on it, though I did like alot of other cars there.

Still, I love the styling of the front, The colour is very nice as well.



Coolier than thou.
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8508 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
Volkswagen's next-generation 2011 Passat is expected to up the stakes against Germany’s luxury carmakers, with the car’s designers hoping it will be mentioned in the same breath as BMW 3-Series and Mercedes Benz C-Class as VW sees them as the new Passat's key competitors.

It looks like a Civic.

Why did VW copy Honda's headlights?


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12856 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
While the next-gen Passat is definitely better looking then the current garden-variety Passat (and I'm definitely a fan of the next-gen station wagon's looks) I must question VW's marketing strategy. Why are the positioning the Passat to compete again the 3-series and the C-class? I thought that the excellent Audi A4/A6 was supposed to fight the C-class and 3-series in the marketplace?

I agree.

This Passat is nice enough, but doesn't seem to me to look "upscale" enough to compete with the 3 series.

Audi A4 is a better match.

The front end of that Passat looks really Japanese. Switch the badge to Honda/Toyota/Nissan/Mazda and I bet most people would think it's a Japanese car.

I don't think the 3 series has much to worry about from Audi/VW, at least in the US market. I think the Infiniti G Series is more competetive. IMHO the Audi is close on interior styling to BMW, but is way behind in driving dynamics. G Series is a bit behind on styling, but catching up fast on driving dynamics, and ahead on price and raw power.

I hear there's a big tussle within the VW/Audi group as to how to take on the 3 series and win. I don't think this Passat will change things much. Maybe it would if it has a cheap enough price to undermine the 3 series, but I don't think most 3 series customers are all that price sensitive and I don't think VW can afford to undercut the 3 series by enough to matter.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21801 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

That's a great looking car, but if the Passat is to compete with the C-Class and 3-Series, what is the CC for (to say nothing of Audi)? The Jetta is a nice car as well, but it isn't going to compete with the Accord and Camrys and Fusions - it's too small. By trying to compete with MB and BMW, VW is going to have to price themselves out of that market.

I'd much rather see them leave the toys on the CC, and have the Passat as their largest basic sedan - there are people out there who want the size and handling, but don't need the massive sophistication.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3814 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
While the next-gen Passat is definitely better looking then the current garden-variety Passat (and I'm definitely a fan of the next-gen station wagon's looks

The first doctored professional shoots of high end versions always attract the eye, but wait until you have seen a few on the roads, and I bet you'll find it as dull and boring as the last one. It is still the same bland shape, with a new face, tail lights and other minor modifications.
Not a bad looking car, but not one that makes you think think you absolutely positively need one...

Quoting Revelation (Reply 3):
don't think this Passat will change things much.

Don't think so either.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 3):
but I don't think most 3 series customers are all that price sensitive and I don't think VW can afford to undercut the 3 series by enough to matter.

Nope, and while a BMW is a phenomenally accomplished machine, many people are still drawn to it because of the badge. And that's something VW will never have. I'd rather they kept making cheaper, reliable and fun to drive cars rather than desperately chasing a market they'll never dominate.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineJush From Germany, joined Apr 2005, 1636 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

The station wagon looks too much like the Scirocco.
The rest I like but I wonder why all the car makers e.g. Audi and VW do all these sharp edges on cars. They all look the same really.

Regds
jush



There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8031 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Meanwhile, Ford of Europe will surprise everyone with a new Mondeo model coming at the same time as the new Passat that will at least have distinctive styling (thanks to Ford's Kinetic design philosophy) and not look conservative like VW's of late have been.

User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2644 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

How they want to compete against luxury car makers with something called "People's Car"?
And if they do, what is Audi for?


User currently offlineJush From Germany, joined Apr 2005, 1636 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting RayChuang (Reply 7):
Meanwhile, Ford of Europe will surprise everyone with a new Mondeo model coming at the same time as the new Passat that will at least have distinctive styling (thanks to Ford's Kinetic design philosophy) and not look conservative like VW's of late have been.

Who wants to drive a Ford. Noone does that voluntarily in Europe.



There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
User currently offlineAero145 From Iceland, joined Jan 2005, 3071 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Looking forward to seeing how the new Passat will be.

The rear of the limousine version looks like a Phæton, anyone agree with me there?


User currently offlineIH8BY From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1143 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Volkswagen seems to have an impending identity crisis on its hands. It can't keep pushing forever upwards, for fear of encroaching on Audi's territory, but as Ford and others keep raising their game in terms of quality, Volkswagen is losing the edge that earned it the slight price premium of these other brands. That Seat and Skoda are becoming increasingly mainstream too would seem to be putting further pressure on VW to push itself upmarket. Problem is, I think there's a price ceiling on a Volkswagen, and I think a prudent VW would be one that doesn't try and push that ceiling, especially in the current climate.

Quoting Jush (Reply 9):
Who wants to drive a Ford. Noone does that voluntarily in Europe.

I'd disagree, and the sales figures, reviews, and awards for many of Ford's current European cars would tend to back that up.



Have you ever felt like you could float into the sky / like the laws of physics simply don't apply?
User currently offlineTylerDurden From United States of America, joined May 2008, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
with the car%u2019s designers hoping it will be mentioned in the same breath as BMW 3-Series and Mercedes Benz C-Class

They'll mention it all right. If only to mention what a dismal failure it is in comparison.

The 3-Series has been the benchmark in it's sector...not even Audi or Mercedes can match it.

If they are delivered with fwd then they will be relegated immediately into the 'also ran' category. With 280 horses, I would think 4Motion would be standard (?)

And yeah...it does look like a Civic. A big, angry one.


User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

So long as they offer some other options on wheels.  yuck  those things are fugly.


Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8031 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting Jush (Reply 9):
Who wants to drive a Ford. Noone does that voluntarily in Europe.

Then why is the new version of the Ford Fiesta such a big hit in Europe?


User currently offlineSwissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Have to agree with some of you guys, front looks like a civic on steroids, like the current front grill 100% better, rear looks more like an Audi.....

It seems there is some very good stuff coming in the next 2-3 from VW, Ford & Opel.... Big grin

Cheerios,


User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 32767 times:

I don't mind the looks, and it doesn't remind me of the Civic at all. At least it's good looking unlike the ghastly Civic.

Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
Why are the positioning the Passat to compete again the 3-series and the C-class?

Why not? The Passat (regardless of the CC's or Phaeton's existence) has ultimately always been VWs flagship model, the Jetta/Bora their mid range model and all others their entry models.

As with all Passats, I'm sure this one will be based on a modified A4 or A6 chassis. Usually extended slightly in the former, or shortened in the latter case.

My first car was a '91 Passat Variant. I really miss that car.

Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
what is the CC for

Call it blasphemy, but that's VW's attempt to get up MB's CL/CLS territory, for half the price. And quite frankly, the CC is great value.


User currently offlineGreaser From Bahamas, joined Jan 2004, 1101 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting Jush (Reply 9):

Who wants to drive a Ford. Noone does that voluntarily in Europe.

I hope you are joking. I know this isn't saying much, but Ford makes the best cars from the US. That's just a fact. Ford also makes some better cars than dare I say VW. The first thing I thought when i got into an r32 I thought my god this thing's dreary inside. Of course it's all preference (hence we all dont buy the same car), but I think the only quality gap is in the current american models, not the ones in Europe. Perhaps a better way is to say the only quality gap is that in the public perception. I do think the north american 2010 fusion is a nice car, too.

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 16):
And quite frankly, the CC is great value.

I love the CC and CLS, but have you seen the CLS's resale values? You can't buy one of these cars as your primary. Most people turn off the moment you hear "seats 4" in a sedan. I think there's a market for these cars...just not a very big one. Great to look at though!

My opinion is VW will always be a value-oriented brand. I think very few would make the switch, because the BMW badge is worth ten times that of a VW's. I think it'd be a shame if VW want to move more and more upscale and forget about the masses; opel would be the only reasonably-priced german carmaker then.



Now you're really flying
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7684 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
A6

A6 competes against the E class and 5 Series, it's a much bigger car than a 3 series or C class.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 3):
The front end of that Passat looks really Japanese

The front end of the Passat looks like the front end of a Sirocco or Golf 6.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 3):
IMHO the Audi is close on interior styling to BMW

As an E90 3 series owner I completely disagree, Audi has it all over BMW for interiors, I'm quite jealous of my co workers new A4, it's fit and finish are better than anything BMW or just about anyone else south of Rolls Royce or Bentley can do.

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 7):
Meanwhile, Ford of Europe will surprise everyone with a new Mondeo model coming at the same time

The Mondeo and Opel Insignia are the true competitors for the Passat, sure some folks who are looking at A4, 3 series and C class might go Passat due to its cheaper price and greater interior space but those same people could also buy a Mondeo or Insignia.


User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

What's the problem with VW saying their next Passat is meant to compete against the 3-Series and the C-Class? It's just marketing. It sounds better than competition of the Mondeo or the Honda Accord. Always aim upwards...

Quoting Greaser (Reply 17):
I think it'd be a shame if VW want to move more and more upscale and forget about the masses; opel would be the only reasonably-priced german carmaker then.

For this task they have other models and different brands like Skoda and Seat...

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 18):
Audi has it all over BMW for interiors, I'm quite jealous of my co workers new A4, it's fit and finish are better than anything BMW or just about anyone else south of Rolls Royce or Bentley can do.

Indeed concerning car interiors Audi is the benchmark.

pelican


User currently offlineGreaser From Bahamas, joined Jan 2004, 1101 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting Pelican (Reply 19):
Skoda and Seat...

None of which are german though. I guess my point is why fix something that isnt broken. If you're VW, you own the entire range of vehicles already. Lambo, Bentley, then Audi, VW, Skoda, Seat....why change it up? I know they've increasingly made the A4 bigger and more expensive, so they're really trying to move the Audi ever higher, but it'd be a said day when a passat was no longer a people's car.



Now you're really flying
User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1883 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting Greaser (Reply 20):
but it'd be a said day when a passat was no longer a people's car.

It already is.

A passat (or golf) is significantly more expensive in Europe than a citroen C5, Peugeot 407, Ford Mondeo or Opel Insignia. As someone said previously, VW has Skoda and Seat to fight those.

Not in Audi/BMW/Merc class, but still a comfortable step up (like Saab or Alfa Romeo).


User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21801 posts, RR: 55
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 16):
Call it blasphemy, but that's VW's attempt to get up MB's CL/CLS territory, for half the price. And quite frankly, the CC is great value.

It's not blasphemy at all - VW can make very good luxury cars. But in my mind, if VW wants to take on BMW and MB, they should do it with the CC, not the Passat.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 22):

It's not blasphemy at all - VW can make very good luxury cars.

Oh I know, I have a huge VW fetish for a reason. But I've been flamed before for saying what you said. Oh well, someday people will learn.


User currently offlineGuitrThree From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2059 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting Jush (Reply 6):
The station wagon looks too much like the Scirocco.

People my age remember the Scirocco as these:






As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
25 Dallasnewark : After the VW Phaeton disaster, I have a hard time believing that VW can even be mentioned in the same league as the MB and BMW. Time will tell, but th
26 FLY2HMO : It was only a disaster in the US, and just because people were too shallow to look beyond the VW badge. It still sells decently in Europe. Many impor
27 Revelation : It certainly seems that way in the US. Decades of advertising frugal innovative cars will not fade overnight. They'd be better off introducing a new
28 Dallasnewark : Totally agree with that. Instead of going into unchartered waters with Phaeton and to a smaller degree with Touareg where they got their tales handed
29 Revelation : I did have an interesting test drive of the A4. The salesman said he was the only one working, so would I mind if I took the car out by myself? It wa
30 KiwiRob : No it doesn't and it never did sell well. I think I read somewhere that the Continential GT and Flying Spur out sell it. It's a great buy second hand
31 StasisLAX : Exactly my point with the next-gen Passat! Why would VW go after the C-class and 3-series with the Passat? Go after the Mondeo, Maxima, Insignia, G37
32 EddieDude : The Passat will continue to fight the likes of the Insignia, the Mondeo, the 407, etcetera for customers. It is a car in that league and that is not g
33 JJJ : Sold (sells) very poorly. The Touareg was a relative success, though. VW still enjoys a much better brand placement in Europe than it does in the US,
34 RayChuang : From what I've read, VW plans two models more aimed for the American market: 1) A new sedan (possibly wagon) based on a slightly enlarged version of t
35 KiwiRob : I think you will find that this will be based on the Skoda Superb which is a slightly longer and a lot more spacious inside version of the Passat Wha
36 Klmcedric : I own a passat currently. It is muuuuuch bigger and provides heaps of extra space compared to BMW 3 and Merc C. I see the passat as a competitor to Fo
37 Jush : Yep sorry I should've made that clear. Ford and GM's small cars in Europe do well and are quite good (Fiesta and Corsa). I was rather talking about m
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