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Obama EU - Please Don't Send Out The Invitations.  
User currently offlineOzglobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2711 posts, RR: 4
Posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3595 times:

BBC reporting Obama's speech in Europe:

"In America, there's a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America's showed arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive.

"But in Europe, there is an anti-Americanism that is at once casual but can also be insidious. Instead of recognizing the good that America so often does in the world, there have been times where Europeans choose to blame America for much of what's bad.

Well said, but:

The president also reiterated that the US government strongly supported Turkey's bid to become a member of the European Union.
"Europe gains by diversity of ethnicity, tradition and faith - it is not diminished by it," he said to a round of applause from the audience. "And Turkish membership would broaden and strengthen Europe's foundation once more."

-----------------

Uhmm, Mr Obama needs to join the EU before he gets to invite others to become members.
Turkey and the EU citizens have very different cultures, values and agendas. Outside of the academics and businessmen of Istambul, most of the 70 million muslim population live much as they have for centuries and are not at all enamored of western liberal democratic values. This same population is doubling every 20 years. Over the next two decades, 140 million Turkish muslims, primarily from a traditional rural setting are not likely to want to 'integrate' with the main stream cultures of Europe. A strong strategic partnership is, I think the best mutual way forward. We don't have to 'marry' every country we want as a partner. Sarkozy might well "strongly support" Turkey's becoming the 51st state of the USA and push for this. How would Americans appreciate the diplomacy of this attitude.


When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
68 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5126 posts, RR: 34
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3585 times:



Quoting Ozglobal (Thread starter):
Sarkozy might well "strongly support" Turkey's becoming the 51st state of the USA and push for this. How would Americans appreciate the diplomacy of this attitude.

52nd. Im sure he will be pushing Britian first  Silly



That'll teach you
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26845 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3576 times:

Well I do support Turkeys eventual entry to the EU but I think its 20 years down the road. There are many many issues to sort out from human rights to freedom of the press. In the current economic situation I think any new EU entry will be delayed.

On another note whilst I really like Obama he should not try to make the same mistake as his predecessor . The USA should not involve itself in internal EU decisons and policy.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21406 posts, RR: 54
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3560 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 2):
In the current economic situation I think any new EU entry will be delayed.

Not just because of that — as long as the Lisbon treaty is held up, any further enlargement is simply impossible. Even the previous round had been too much without the necessary structural reforms accompanying it.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 2):
On another note whilst I really like Obama he should not try to make the same mistake as his predecessor . The USA should not involve itself in internal EU decisons and policy.

The USA can express an appreciation of such an accession, but it does indeed come dangerously close to meddling in internal EU affairs. He should not press the point any further — it's quite enough.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3531 times:
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Quoting OA260 (Reply 2):
On another note whilst I really like Obama he should not try to make the same mistake as his predecessor . The USA should not involve itself in internal EU decisons and policy.

Amen to that. I am very disappointed with Today's comments from Mr Obama, as so far he has made a very good impression on me. There is no way Turkey should join the EU, but even if they were eventually allowed to, that should only ever be the decision of the EU and be taken free of any extrenal influence.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5404 posts, RR: 30
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3498 times:



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 5):
should only ever be the decision of the EU and be taken free of any extrenal influence.

Considering that the entire globe has felt free for decades to comment on America, it's politics, policies, celebrities and whatever else comes down the pike, I find it ironic that the EU doesn't wish to allow the president of the USA to have an opinion on their affairs.



What the...?
User currently offlinePar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7049 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3483 times:



Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 6):
Considering that the entire globe has felt free for decades to comment on America, it's politics, policies, celebrities and whatever else comes down the pike, I find it ironic that the EU doesn't wish to allow the president of the USA to have an opinion on their affairs.

Question is, who in the EU political hierachy are pushing for Turkey to be excluded? Unless I'm mistaken, their is a vocal minority against Turkey's entry, not a majority, so did he actually say something which the majority are against?


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5404 posts, RR: 30
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3473 times:

My point is, he is entitled to his opinion just as the EU is entitled to ignore it. Getting upset because he vocalizes his opinion seems like over reacting to me.


What the...?
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26845 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3472 times:



Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 6):
globe has felt free for decades to comment on America, it's politics, policies, celebrities and whatever else comes down the pike, I find it ironic that the EU doesn't wish to allow the president of the USA to have an opinion on their affairs.

People can make comments but there is a line when addressing international meetings and summits.

You didnt hear Gordon Brown or Sarkozy say that America should get rid of Mr Bush at the US elections.


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5404 posts, RR: 30
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3431 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 9):
You didnt hear Gordon Brown or Sarkozy say that America should get rid of Mr Bush at the US elections.

You didn't hear Bush say get rid of Brown or Sarkozy either...which wouldn't have anything to do with what Obama said anyway.

It wouldn't take much googling to dig up some quotes from EU leaders criticizing US policy.

The EU is under no obligation to take Obamas' wishes into consideration.

Picking and choosing when free speech is allowed doesn't make it very free.



What the...?
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21406 posts, RR: 54
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3415 times:



Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 6):
Considering that the entire globe has felt free for decades to comment on America, it's politics, policies, celebrities and whatever else comes down the pike, I find it ironic that the EU doesn't wish to allow the president of the USA to have an opinion on their affairs.

The way he worded it, it was more than an expression of an opinion (which would not be a problem) — it came close to being a demand. And that crosses the line, especially when strategic desires for NATO are pushed on the EU which is a completely separate entity.


User currently offlineRadiopolitic From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3393 times:



Quoting Ozglobal (Thread starter):

While even as a citizen of Turkey I do not wish for it to join the EU, your paragraph of reasons clearly demonstrates to me that you have very little understanding of Turkey.

Show me one source that says by 2029 Turkey's population will be 140 million.

It's Istanbul not Istambul. Only academics and businessmen, eh? What an obtuse and erroneous opinion.

We've lived the same way for centuries? Have you ever visited Turkey? If we've lived that way then, just as one example, why do almost all farmers use modern mechanized equipment when my father didn't even 60 years ago?

Not enamored with western liberal democratic values? That's why we have a democratic process and elections that just occurred recently with 85% voter turnout right?

Don't get me wrong I'm a severe critic of many things that occur within Turkey from human rights violations to historical manipulation but I won't stand for nonsense like this.

Don't spew malarkey without knowing what you're talking about, be it fueled by propaganda or hatred.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26845 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3389 times:



Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 10):
The EU is under no obligation to take Obamas' wishes into consideration.

And it doesnt take too much to find instances of extreme pressure to get their way either. Like I said there is expressing your views without dictating .


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5404 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3362 times:

He said, essentially, that the EU would benefit from Turkey's inclusion...that's hardly dictating. To me, it seems much more like recommending or advising.

Still, just as I feel Obama is entitled to voice his opinion, everyone else is entitled to voice theirs.



What the...?
User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2711 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3333 times:



Quoting Radiopolitic (Reply 12):
While even as a citizen of Turkey I do not wish for it to join the EU, your paragraph of reasons clearly demonstrates to me that you have very little understanding of Turkey.

Show me one source that says by 2029 Turkey's population will be 140 million.

An extrapolation:

"Turkey's first census of the republican era was taken in 1927 and counted a total population of about 13.6 million. Less than seventy years later, the country's population had more than quadrupled. Between 1927 and 1945, growth was slow; in certain years during the 1930s, the population actually declined. Significant growth occurred between 1945 and 1980, when the population increased almost 2.5 times. Although the rate of growth has been slowing gradually since 1980, Turkey's average annual population increase is relatively high in comparison to that of European countries. In fact, member states of the European Union (EU--see Glossary) have cited this high population growth rate as justification for delaying a decision on Turkey's long-pending application to join the EU."

http://countrystudies.us/turkey/24.htm

Quoting Radiopolitic (Reply 12):
It's Istanbul not Istambul. Only academics and businessmen, eh? What an obtuse and erroneous opinion.

Didn't say that. You misread. The point was that there is a very pro-european academic and business movement amongst a minority in Istanbul, and a lot less support for liberal democracy amongst other demographics in the country.

Quoting Radiopolitic (Reply 12):
We've lived the same way for centuries?

From: Women in the Rural Turkish Culture:

"You might find it hard to believe but in the 21st century there are still places where women are not treated as equal to men. Welcome to rural Turkey where for some polygamy and abuse against women is a normal part of every day life. Although women gained the right to vote in 1927 and civil rights were introduced in 1934 very little changed throughout the years. In a strictly traditional and patriarchal society it was extremely important to preserve old values and conventional ways, preventing the progress of modernization and development."

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art..._rural_turkish_culture.html?cat=49

From NY Times, "Turkish Women Who See Death as a Way Out"

"....Nearly half the women in southeastern Turkey are illiterate, largely because their families refused to send girls to school.

[They] would have been unlikely to challenge her father because men rule with the authority of a feudal lord. The women raise the children and live in the shadows, usually behind a veil, and the female children work at home until they are married."

"...With poverty widespread, and unemployment often surpassing 50 percent, women are relegated to the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder. Even the scarce resources that poor families can muster are invariably used to help the sons, leaving girls to watch brothers go off to school or jobs, while they stay home. Girls who go to school or have jobs face rigid rules and harsh punishment at home."

From: UN Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women
http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/cedaw/cedaw-turkey.htm

"153. The representative noted that in Turkey, contradictions of globalization, modernization and traditionalism had an impact on the status of women in society. Constraints of underdevelopment and structural adjustment and of religious fundamentalism and claims based on ethnic rivalries presented sources of conflict with long-term prospects that may be unfavourable for the status of women.
157. Among the challenges faced by Turkey in achieving women's equality, the representative identified the disparities in status and opportunities for urban middle-class and rural women; violence against women in the private domain;"

Quoting Radiopolitic (Reply 12):
Not enamored with western liberal democratic values? That's why we have a democratic process and elections that just occurred recently with 85% voter turnout right?



Didn't say "process" but "liberal democratic values".

Quoting Radiopolitic (Reply 12):
Don't get me wrong I'm a severe critic of many things that occur within Turkey from human rights violations to historical manipulation but I won't stand for nonsense like this.

Some facts. 'Stubborn things'.



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2711 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3326 times:



Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 14):
He said, essentially, that the EU would benefit from Turkey's inclusion...that's hardly dictating. To me, it seems much more like recommending or advising.

"Let me be clear: the United States strongly supports Turkey's bid to become a member of the European Union," Obama pledged in a speech at the Turkish parliament.

In the context and setting, it sounds more like an expectation, bordering on a diplomatic 'demand'.



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineA332 From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 1644 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3321 times:

I believe Obama was more interested in extending an arm of cooperation to the Muslim world (or an olive branch of sorts), more so than pushing hard to have the EU accept Turkey...

That's what it was all about... peaceful & meaningful engagement of an important Muslim nation... demonstrating the Obama administration IS interested in pursuing it's goals through diplomacy and that US military motives are not directed at Islam as a whole.

It's not a bad idea... beats the whole 'you're either with us or against us' mentality of the Bush II era.



Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21406 posts, RR: 54
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3301 times:



Quoting A332 (Reply 17):
I believe Obama was more interested in extending an arm of cooperation to the Muslim world (or an olive branch of sorts), more so than pushing hard to have the EU accept Turkey...

Obviously. There's still a point where lines will be crossed.

Still within the honeymoon period it's apparently a calculated risk which will not have any serious consequences, but he should refrain from repeating it nevertheless.


User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3286 times:



Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 16):
"Let me be clear: the United States strongly supports Turkey's bid to become a member of the European Union," Obama pledged in a speech at the Turkish parliament.

In the context and setting, it sounds more like an expectation, bordering on a diplomatic 'demand'.

Do you seriously think Obama is demanding here? Umm, Europe is our greatest ally. If you take this as a threat or demand, you are wrong. Maybe that's what he'd like to see, and certainly Europe has told the US what they want to see from us, oh, for the past 50 years or so, so don't go off on a tangent over something this silly. Or be offended if our president SUGGESTS something about your Union. Lord knows you guys do it to us all the time, albeit, you guys were pretty much straight on for the Iraq war, but still, you did give us your VERY strong opinion. Don't get offended when others give you theirs, and I wouldn't worry, I don't think we are going to impose sanctions or launch a military campaign against you if you do not include turkey, and I doubt we would annex Europe.....LOL.

UAL


User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5665 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3281 times:

The US President, on the last leg of his first European trip since inauguration, made clear he backed Turkey as an EU member state, not least to as a positive message to the Muslim world.

That prompted Nicolas Sarkozy, the French President, to repeat his resistance to the idea, while Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, said close ties with Ankara did not necessarily mean full membership of the EU club.

Now Nigel Farage, the UK Independence Party leader, has described the notion of Turkish EU membership - first mooted 40 years ago - as a "disaster".

Mr Farage warned: "Barack Obama should remember that while he's been elected President he's been elected President of the United States only.

"This doesn't mean he has the power to decide which country enters, or does not enter, the EU. So his remarks yesterday that Turkey should be allowed in were the grossest cheek."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk

It seems that Obama certainly managed to achieve one thing: Sarkozy, Ms. Merkel and Nigel Farage actually agree on something. That does not happen very often.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3259 times:
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Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 6):
Considering that the entire globe has felt free for decades to comment on America, it's politics, policies, celebrities and whatever else comes down the pike, I find it ironic that the EU doesn't wish to allow the president of the USA to have an opinion on their affairs.

Commen, yes. Try and influence internal affairs, no.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineRadiopolitic From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3256 times:



Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 15):
An extrapolation:

While your cited paragraph is old news to me you clearly wrote:

Quoting Ozglobal (Thread starter):
This same population is doubling every 20 years. Over the next two decades, 140 million Turkish muslims

Give me one source that states the population of Turkey will be 140 million in 2029. There is no mention of that in what you've quoted or in your link.

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 15):
Didn't say that. You misread.

Then what is this:

Quoting Ozglobal (Thread starter):
Istambul



Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 15):
The point was that there is a very pro-european academic and business movement amongst a minority in Istanbul,

Pro-European sentiments come from all strata in Turkey. Not just academics and businessmen and not only in Istanbul. If you think it is only limited to Istanbul and to academics and businesses you are grossly mistaken. Now I'm not saying that the entire country is gung-ho about it either but it most definitely permeates beyond such finitely defined circles.

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 15):
From: Women in the Rural Turkish Culture:

I'm not sure if I should laugh at you for posting those things or not. Your initial post was a giant paintbrush sweep of a statement. If you have particular issues then you should have stated them. I'm the first to realize problems within my country and you raise a very legitimate one, however, don't make some ridiculous generalized statement that we "live much as they have for centuries," which holds zero merit or understanding of Turkey.

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 15):
Didn't say "process" but "liberal democratic values".

The process is within itself a part of those values. There are a lot of issues in Turkey and if you have specific concerns, make them specific - such as the oppression of science but don't make generalized sweeping statements based on severely limited understanding of what you're talking about. Many people outside of academia and the business circle share those values and cherish them dear to their hearts. There is a reason that Ataturk is venerated as much as he is and it isn't just academic and business circles that are fond of him, and it most definitely isn't limited to Istanbul and Istanbul alone. You are most incorrect if you have such a narrow perception of how far down these ideals have percolated into the Turkish populace.

I'll reiterate just to make sure the point comes across. Make specific criticisms, not generalized statements.


User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2711 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3242 times:



Quoting Radiopolitic (Reply 22):

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 15):
Didn't say that. You misread.

Then what is this:

Quoting Ozglobal (Thread starter):
Istambul

Are you seriously arguing about my typo? I am explaining the demographic issue I was trying to make. I have business colleagues in Istanbul and have spoken to them enough to form some views on the situation. Enough to make me uncomfortable with the idea of Turkey joining the EU in the near future.

Population: It has double several times in the 20th century and is growing much faster than European countries. A crude extrapolation is to double it again in 20 years. Maybe it's not 2x but 1.5 times. In any case, my point and the documented concerns of the EU members as I cited, are clear.

Traditional patriarchal structures reinforced by religion in rural areas are not today allowing social values compatible with mainstream European values and practices. With open boarders in the EU this is very likely to lead to tensions.

Hence, my recommendation is to have a strong strategic partnership with Turkey and EU membership is not the only or the best way to have this.

Take it or leave it. That's my view.



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5404 posts, RR: 30
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3221 times:



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 21):
Commen, yes. Try and influence internal affairs, no.

He said he supports Turkey's entry into the EU...he didn't say he'd try and force the EU to acquiesce.

The EU was all over American internal affairs when it came to cheering on Obama in the election and ravaging Bush.

Here's the president of the EU with a recent comment on the USA;

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,615488,00.html

Quote:
Speaking before the European Parliament on Wednesday, Mirek Topolanek described the stimulus measures and financial bailouts passed by US President Barack Obama as the "way to hell."

More EU interfering in American policy;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...09/jan/28/carbon-trading-us-europe

Quote:
The Obama administration should join Europe in an ambitious new transatlantic pact to combat climate change, Brussels proposed today.

...and yet more;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7866900.stm

Quote:
The EU has increased its pressure on the US to reconsider the "Buy American" clause in the $800bn (£567bn) economic recovery package now before Congress.

Sounds like trying to influence internal affairs to me...and that's just a few I found.



What the...?
User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5416 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3217 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 2):
The USA should not involve itself in internal EU decisons and policy.



Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
The USA can express an appreciation of such an accession, but it does indeed come dangerously close to meddling in internal EU affairs. He should not press the point any further — it's quite enough.



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 5):
only ever be the decision of the EU and be taken free of any extrenal influence

I beleive I have heard China express similar sentiments when "others" talk about Tibet or Taiwan. And it sounds vaguely like what I remember hearing from the Soviet Union when the West talked about the member states and what they should be allowed to do.

I really can't believe I am hearing this kind of stuff from our EU members, express dislike for the idea sure, but to criticizes and basically say "mind yer own business" and that he really shouldn't/doesn't have the "OK" to say things like this is ridiculous.


Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 8):
My point is, he is entitled to his opinion just as the EU is entitled to ignore it. Getting upset because he vocalizes his opinion seems like over reacting to me.

 checkmark 

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 16):

"Let me be clear: the United States strongly supports Turkey's bid to become a member of the European Union," Obama pledged in a speech at the Turkish parliament.

In the context and setting, it sounds more like an expectation, bordering on a diplomatic 'demand'.

I don't hear that at all, what I hear is that the USA strongly supports Turkey's bid to become a member of the EU. If we start amassing troops and equipment on your borders and submit resolutions to the UN, then, Yes, I will agree that the USA is overstepping its authority and is acting improperly.

Don't get me wrong, I love Europe, I hail directly from it, but taking actual offense to what Obama said? It sadly speaks volumes of how the EU feels about Turkey, not about the USA and it's President.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
25 Radiopolitic : Yeah, with an edit function you can easily change it, there is no excuse to leave it as is. I'm not surprised at all that your views are based purely
26 Klaus : He urged the EU to let Turkey join. For a fundamental decision such as this which depends on many factors which he did not address or acknowledge it
27 RussianJet : Not really - because expressing an opinion is one thing, but Bush was far to vocal in a pushy sort of way for far too long on this issue, and I would
28 OA260 : I agree to an extent. Austria/Germany and France seem to have alot of opposition to it . Funny enough Greece seems to be the more pro entry than its
29 Post contains links Tugger : Who determines this legitimacy? Certainly no court in the world will state that the comments Pres. Obama made are illegal or not within his right to
30 Aaron747 : With statements like this, clearly broad-based stereotyping and pigeonholing of entire countries are not limited to the mouthpieces of US foreign pol
31 Radiopolitic : I was surprised too. We'll see what happens with the border possibly opening up soon and Apr 24th around the corner. I was most amused by his mention
32 WarRI1 : I agree 100% The old saying comes in here "People who live in glass houses, should not throw stones. A little hypocritcal in my opinion for anyone fr
33 Stokes : Touchy Euros! Not so multi-culti and openminded when it comes to your own pet issues, eh? I guess professions of cultural sensitivity are a fun way to
34 RussianJet : Not harsh, it just seems like the point keeps being missed. This is a purely European issue to be decided by European countries. That's all there is
35 Klaus : The respective populations. Since the obsolescence of fictional divine appointment, the legitimacy of a government depends entirely on the assent of
36 Klaus : You might have a point if a foreign head of state or head of government had made demands to let another nation join the USA or make a similarly funda
37 Francoflier : Bingo. Not the most diplomatic way of doing it, but Obama is rather desperate to improve diplomatic ties with countries in this region, and Turkey is
38 Tugger : I am comparing the types of statements being made here with those by the countries mentioned. Nothing more. Don't tell me you can't here the echos of
39 FreequentFlier : To our European friends, Sorry to have elected a guy who thinks he's President of the world,. Not all of us voted for him though. Some of us on the ri
40 Airtrainer : Couldn't say it better myself !
41 OzGlobal : You're right. I very careless worded this paragraph. I would better put it: Traditional patriarchal structures reinforced by religion in rural areas
42 Bwest : Hm, if Turkey gets into the EU, I wonder what that would mean for al the Greek Turks who lost their homes and property during the silent ethnic cleans
43 Babybus : Notice he didn't give any examples And bankrupt it. Well done Mr Obama.
44 RussianJet : I'm definitely going to start campaigning for Turkey to become part of the United States of America as soon as possible.
45 Klaus : As I've said several times already: This calculated transgression is not a big deal in context with Obama's highly constructive behaviour otherwise.
46 OA260 : Well Turkey knows it wont be allowed into the EU without a full and final settlement to the Cyprus issue and to be honest its not that much of an iss
47 AverageUser : The fundaments of this are quite simply that Turkey in the EU would be the weight to upset the sweet Franco-German marriage that the Union rests on.
48 Klaus : Sure. We're just evil. No reason to think any further than that.
49 AverageUser : If you say so, but I feel the Franco-German axis ("we"?) is not evil, just stuffy and stagnated. I appreciate Obama for his acute sense of the functi
50 Klaus : Compared to your refreshing and original accusations, we' really couldn't hope to compete...! Given the monumental mess he's got before him to clean
51 Lewis : Althought I did not agree with some things Obama said in Turkey, I was surprised that EU leaders took such offence from the comments of Obama, I took
52 Post contains links Oldeuropean : Don't let us forget that the current US government ain't the first one to suggest a membership of Turkey. Bush: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn..
53 JoeCanuck : As far as I know, Europe isn't a sovereign country so the comparison really is moot. Mexico is part of NAFTA which is a north american economic union
54 RussianJet : On the contrary, it is a much better comparison than NAFTA. See my post on this above - the fact is that any EU national can live and work freely any
55 JoeCanuck : So Europe is now a country?
56 Klaus : The European Union is a (thus far) unique supranational entity to which its member nations have delegated several of their sovereign responsibilities
57 JoeCanuck : Indeed...a common history like centuries of warring between the nations, including a few dustups last century which, I seem to recall, ended up invol
58 Klaus : And over two millenia of common history can't possibly reach any deeper or wider than just that, right? Well, if US involvement in european history i
59 L410Turbolet : If it was a mere suggestion, then why did he feel the urge to repeat the suggestion 3 times in 3 days during his Europe+Turkey tour? That seems like
60 JoeCanuck : Sure...if killing millions of each others citizens is common history. False, how, specifically? So your contention is that if the US didn't get invol
61 NW747400 : That's an asinine comment. No states are allowed to secede from the U.S. ever, and also must accept all federal laws. Countries in the EU retain sove
62 RussianJet : I refer you to Klaus' fine reply, and also point out that I never stated Europe was a country. However, neither is it a mere trade organisation like
63 Mariner : Mr. Obama didn't invite anyone to become a member of anything. mariner
64 JoeCanuck : Considering that Mexico hasn't asked for Statehood in the USA, I'm not sure how the comparison is valid. Turkey actually has asked for membership in
65 Lewis : He insisted because a positive outcome for Turkey would clearly benefit the US and that's why he is trying to 'push' it through. The fact is that it
66 OA260 : Yes very true and its a thing that I am proud of. Greece in many ways is Eastern but yet Western also. I love the food/music/outlook on life. Its som
67 RussianJet : Oh goodness me......can't anyone use their imagination anymore?? It's called a hypothetical situation, and even so nobody is saying it would be exact
68 Oldeuropean : Yes it was "suggested" by the US for decades, because it would stabilize the Middle East and perhabs also because it would weaken the EU, which is a
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