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Minicars Perform Dreadfully In Crash Tests  
User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5643 posts, RR: 4
Posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3507 times:

The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety crash-tested three of the new "minicar" models, putting each through a 40 mph offset frontal crash with a midside vehicle by the same manufacturer: Smart Fortwo vs. Mercedes C-Class, Toyota Yaris vs. Toyota Camry, and Honda Fit vs. Honda Accord. Suffice to say that the minicars failed. Dreadfully so. Shockingly so.

News article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/14/automobiles/14crash.html?hpw

IIHS report:
http://www.iihs.org/externaldata/srdata/docs/sr4404.pdf


"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
88 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6575 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3503 times:
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Quoting PROSA (Thread starter):
. Suffice to say that the minicars failed. Dreadfully so. Shockingly so.

Thats like hoping a bike hold up against a semi.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39835 posts, RR: 74
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3451 times:

Uh-oh, this goes against the dominant belief that minicars are infallible, green, safe and good for the environment.
I don't expect this story to get much ink.
Just more proof that environmentalist don't give a damn about the safety of their fellow humans.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3433 times:

The other day I was on the highway and saw a suburban, and behind that was a smart. behind that was an explorer. If that suburban stopped. The pelvis of the Smart driver would be come a hood ornament for that Explorer. But hey, let them spend 20k and get 30mpg's on 93 octane!


Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7517 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3372 times:



Quoting PROSA (Thread starter):

This report just simply vindicates what I've been saying for the last 30 years.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3309 times:

I saw a Yaris rear end a Ford F-250 last week. It was laughable at best. I didnt know if I should cry for the 2 inches of chipped paint on the pickup or if I should roll down my window and laugh at the stupid woman for driving in that worthless excuse of a go-kart who was being loaded into the ambulance.

Its amazing what people will do to compromise safety and try to defy pure physics.


User currently offline767Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3283 times:

This might be a dumb question, but aren't these kinds of tests supposed to be carried out before the vehicle goes to market?

User currently offlineJetsGo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3082 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3278 times:



Quoting 767Lover (Reply 6):

The problem is, regardless of tests, airbags, technology, and anything else in these minicars, the law of physics simply overrides it all. It is impossible to make a Yaris stand up to a larger vehicle, let alone an average sized Camry.



Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3274 times:

Whenever someone goes on about the Smart, I just show them this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju6t-yyoU8s

Still want a plastic eco-box?



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39835 posts, RR: 74
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3272 times:



Quoting 767Lover (Reply 6):
This might be a dumb question, but aren't these kinds of tests supposed to be carried out before the vehicle goes to market?

Not a dumb question at all.
You can sale anything under the guise of being 'green' and get away with it.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineBok269 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 2105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3250 times:



Quoting 767Lover (Reply 6):
This might be a dumb question, but aren't these kinds of tests supposed to be carried out before the vehicle goes to market?

Tests are in fact done before a car goes on the market. However, there is a minimum threshold of survivability that needs to be met in the government tests. The IIHS tests (the ones this thread discusses) go above and beyond the government tests.



"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3983 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3245 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
Just more proof that environmentalist don't give a damn about the safety of their fellow humans.

And yet Europe seems to have road fatality rates similar to or less than those in the U.S....



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3235 times:



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 11):
And yet Europe seems to have road fatality rates similar to or less than those in the U.S....

Tsk tsk Pyrex, not allowed to point out nasty stats like that. Also no information on how much less likely you are to be hit being as how you are a smaller object. I always hire the smallest car possible to go to the airport on the principle that I am a smaller target.

Is this thread a plea to be allowed to build SUVs the size of a B double, including load?


User currently offlineGuitrThree From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3233 times:



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 11):
And yet Europe seems to have road fatality rates similar to or less than those in the U.S....

And I would guess that's because Europe has a SMALL percentage of high speed roads (interstates) compared to the vast number of miles found in America.

That, and the fact that Europeans are just about forced to drive in these death traps, so usually its a small car vs small car crash, while in America, people who drive these smart cars face a much more higher percentage of collisions with larger personal vehicles such a mid and full sized cars and trucks.



As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39835 posts, RR: 74
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3223 times:



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 11):
And yet Europe.......

 redflag   redflag   redflag 

This has NOTHING to do with Europe vs. the USA.
I was singling out environmentalist , NOT Europeans.
Worth noting, it was a European sedan (Mercedes C-Class) used in the crash test as being a safer car than the Smart car.
No mention of an SUV in this article.
Let's please stay on topic and discuss the facts mentioned in this article.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4304 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3208 times:



Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 13):
That, and the fact that Europeans are just about forced to drive in these death traps, so usually its a small car vs small car crash, while in America,

Cars is one of the only areas I'm not for total freedom. I'm glad Europans are ''forced'' to drive death traps, which they are not in Europe since most cars are small.

It is not a right to drive a massive vehicle capable of producing incredible harm on others, and damage to the environment. This discussion is a mute point now anyways for the most parts people in the US are waking up to buying smaller cars. There's a reason your automakers are failed auto manufacturers. No one on Earth wants to drive huge vehicles when there is no legitimate reason (regular cargo) to do so. I say tax people that want to drive huge vehicles to death to pay for their wreckless driving habits (it's well known people that drive bigger vehicles
drive more aggresively), when they buy the car, and tax them to death again at the gasoline station with a special pollution/energy wasting tax. Pay to Play.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 13):
And I would guess that's because Europe has a SMALL percentage of high speed roads (interstates) compared to the vast number of miles found in America.

Check out a travel map of Europe. France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, Italy have just as dense if not more dense system of expressways, with England and Spain very close.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineGuitrThree From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3207 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
Worth noting, it was a European sedan (Mercedes C-Class) used in the crash test as being a safer car than the Smart car.

As they used the Accord vs Fit and a Camry vs Yaris.

They kept it in the family!! Pretty funny if you ask me.. They used a car built from the same company to show how fragile these things are!



As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3983 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3201 times:



Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 13):
And I would guess that's because Europe has a SMALL percentage of high speed roads (interstates) compared to the vast number of miles found in America.

And you would guess wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ECD_countries_by_road_network_size

Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):

Sorry for singling you out, Superfly, but my point was that people here claiming that smaller cars are less safe are wrong. As an example of that, I gave Europe, which has a big predominance of smaller cars and is just as safe or safer than the U.S. I was not trying to do this a Europe vs U.S. thing.



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3195 times:

Well, since I don't need to pump up my gonads by driving a "HEMI", or some big-assed SUV that makes me feel like I have power, I'll stick with smaller, fuel-effecient cars, thank you.

They're only "death traps" because of the monstrosities some Americans feel they have to drive, even if they lose half their gasoline when they start the damn things.  Big grin


User currently offlineGreaser From Bahamas, joined Jan 2004, 1101 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3184 times:

I wonder how the Tato nano would fare.
Big version: Width: 416 Height: 300 File size: 33kb

something like this, perhaps?



Now you're really flying
User currently offlineJush From Germany, joined Apr 2005, 1636 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3162 times:

Well, still, this little investigation ist just nicely put to fit American views that you need a bigger car.
Fact is: You need no test to say that a head on collision between a smart and a c class is no nice thing to be put in.
Same goes for c class vs. S-class at 40 or 50 mph.

Thing is though. In Europe these small cars drive around for ages and still the death tolls are coming down. The smart and the other cars are safe and pass all test (for example the NCAP test) perfectly.
It's a very one-sided test to let a big vehicle crash into a small one. Plus head on collision rarely occur. I would rather worry about side-collisions which are much more common.

Regds
jush



There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1817 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3114 times:

Anyone have data on how what % of accidents/fatalities are head-ons?

I read something about rollovers accounting for a disproportionate amount of road casualties in the US.

Some food for thought: 2005 data of road fatalities per capita

US is at 14,75 dead per 100.000 people. The only euro countries over that number are Greece, Croatia, Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia and Russia.

Germany, for example, stands at 8,03, the UK at 5,81.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 13):
And I would guess that's because Europe has a SMALL percentage of high speed roads (interstates) compared to the vast number of miles found in America

You're wrong on that approach. Casualties on dual-lane high-speed roads are negligible. It's back roads with bad pavement, tight bends etc. that kill most road casualties and then, it's not crashing against another car what kills most people, but leaving the road and hitting an stationary object or rolling over.


User currently offlineLewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3623 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3109 times:

It all depends on circumstances and the general environment on the road. In the US, most cars are medium to large in size, while in Europe most people ride on small/medium hatches.

I was once driving behind an H3 in Athens and I could clearly see that, in case of a collision, he would just drive over me due to the difference in height. Similarly, if I collided with a truck, even with my parents' sedan, chances are I wouldn't survive. If for some reason Americans decided to drive even bigger cars or trucks, you would stop feeling safe in a Sedan.

I hate the mentality that some people have in Greece that drives them to buy ther KIDS big SUVs so that they can be safe, but at the expense of other cars/pedestrians that they might hit due to reckless/inexperienced driving.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26913 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3083 times:



Quoting Jush (Reply 20):
Well, still, this little investigation ist just nicely put to fit American views that you need a bigger car.

Very true. I have a Smart car and very happy with it. I have seen crashes where large top name cars have been mangled with the whole front off. One accident was where a BMW was overtaking and a lorry came the other way. The BMW went under the lorry and ripped the whole roof off and beheaded the driver. The Police told us to turn back rather than pass the other side of the road as it was too horrific. No car is safe.


User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4856 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3161 times:

At least here, the vast majority of fatal accidents happen on country roads when drivers leave the road and hit a stationary object. That's why cars are crashtested for exactly these kinds of accidents, not for head-ons and not for planes crashing on their roof.

The famous Autobahn is actually very safe, even without a speed limit.


25 Cpd : I was going to suggest we do crash tests comparing the safety of the typical large car to a huge semi or a huge rail locomotive. Then we can similarl
26 A342 : Back in 1999 or 2000, when the Smart first appeared, one of Germany's reputable car magazines crashed it against an S-class. It performed remarkably w
27 Lewis : When I bought my car I saw some collision tests online, and they had both collisions with stationary objects and with other cars. In both cases, the
28 WildcatYXU : And you should add that most EU countries have higher speed limits than the US or Canada... Where exactly in North America are these high speed roads
29 Mham001 : A more relevant comparison would be the the amount of miles driven and the percentage of drivers vs the fatality rate. Im also wondering why Italy, w
30 Waterpolodan : Not sure what's so shocking or worth arguing about with this article. Yes, the micro-cars are little death traps. Maybe some buyers like to believe th
31 Post contains links JJJ : Italy is comfortably below the US at 11,7. The most dangerous place to drive in Europe are the baltics If there's some data on fatalities per mile dr
32 Klaus : Now imagine a head-on crash between two of those and you're back to square 1 again!
33 David L : We are? That news doesn't seem to have filtered down to the common people over here. "Mini" cars are still very much the exception. I drove 40-odd mi
34 Pyrex : That has got to be exclusively down to the fact that Massholes don't drive a lot in general (Boston is not car-friendly and has good-ish public trans
35 Cadet57 : So I guess the rest of us who dont live in Boston dont count? Speak for yourself. I happen to just be an impatient driver. Its all the other d-bags o
36 Pyrex : Do you really need to ask? I was making a generalization, obviously - of course that people that live outside of Boston do tend to drive more, but si
37 Cadet57 : Considering most people out there had no qualms about increasing the gas tax but god forbid we touch their tolls, Yes. Lets just say that some of our
38 Tugger : I would say that this report proves several things: 1.) Large cars are more dangerous than small cars based on the laws of physics, and should therefo
39 David L : Pardon my ignorance but... you're being sarcastic, right? A report suggesting that smaller cars are less safe than bigger cars indicates that bigger
40 Klaus : The report actually does not say anything about the safety of larger or smaller cars as such. It just says that in an unsymmetric head-on crash the s
41 Tugger : Actually, it's that large cars are more dangerous to others around them than small cars! Yes, I am. But it is strangely logical: Who do you get rid o
42 Bok269 : That would work if the small cars could fend for themselves. But in nearly every test, the Smart goes flying on impact.
43 Tugger : EXACTLY!! Those darned bully big cars are just mean and need to be taken off the road! Tugg
44 Post contains links Jush : As much as I hate the Smart it is not too bad in crash test. http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/html_s...crashtest/mini/smartsidedetail.htm It's in German
45 Superfly : That was not a collision with another moving car. It just slammed in to a stationary tool box and the car still gets airborne and is jumping all over
46 Post contains links AustrianZRH : A little statistics session for Austria (2008): 39,173 total accidents with injuries or fatalities 5,290 head-on collisions (the ones this thread is
47 Post contains images L410Turbolet : "Jumping all over the place" is totally irrelevant to whether the car is considered safe or not. What matters is whether and/or how much the passenge
48 MD-90 : There's no way that there would be such a disparity between a C-class and an S-class as there was between a Smart and a C-class. I don't know about t
49 Jush : Yes they are. Depending on how much time you invest and how talented you are the theory and practice will take you around 3-5 month to get your drive
50 Superfly : If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Most states have safety inspections in which a car must pass. More like your impression deceiving the real situation
51 Jush : Well than if you don't have money and never drive into a garage no one will stop you from driving an unsafe car until you crash. Is this correct?
52 Superfly : No, they fix it themselves. I did that myself when I was a broke college student. We don't like rear-ending folks and running in to things. Even the
53 David L : Which report are you referring to? The one referenced in the OP contains such comments as... "What happens in the front-to-front collision says a lot
54 Cadet57 : I wonder how fast that van was traveling. Those vans usually score well in crash tests.
55 JJJ : ...in the event of a front collision with a lighter object. As a blanket statement, this is not true. Bigger, heavier vehicles have safety concerns o
56 Post contains links and images L410Turbolet : AFAIK, it was the standardized EuroNCAP front impact crash test at 64 km/h into an offset deformable barrier. http://www.euroncap.com/tests/chrysler_
57 Bok269 : As noted in the IIHS page, crash test ratings can only be compared against cars of similar weight. My point exactly.
58 Post contains images FXramper : The Mini Cooper isn't mentioned in the article, but mine did an allright job when I wrecked it.
59 David L : It applies in the event of a front collision with any object. Would you rather smash into a brick wall at 50 mph in a Smart Car or a BMW/Jaguar/Merce
60 N229NW : I'm surprised the cars did that well! 70mph is well over the usual crash test speeds of around 40mph. Also, when it comes to a concrete wall, or tree
61 Falcon84 : Speaking of new small cars, saw my first Kia Soul on the road today, and have to admit, I like the way it looks! Wouldn't mind having one......
62 Superfly : Sorry but that car has no soul.
63 Falcon84 : Jeeeez! Actually, I"m waiting to read more on the Kia Forte. Looks like a definite upgrade over their Kia Spectra, which is what it's replacing.
64 MD11Engineer : About two years ago I passed an accident site on the A61 Autobahn. The acccident occured between a Smart and a heavy 40 tonne longhaul truck. The int
65 A342 : There is a fully automatic mode, at least in the newer models. While I haven't driven it (yet), I once rode in one as a passenger. I was shocked by t
66 MD11Engineer : Na, I prefer old-fashioned manual gearshift. Jan
67 Superfly : So it can slide underneath a truck faster?
68 Aero145 : Exactly!
69 Tugger : One thing that can and should be legislated is that all bumper or "protection zones" (whatever the hell you to call the barrier between you and other
70 A342 : I'd rather slide underneath a truck with a Smart than a '77 Lincoln, thank you very much.
71 Klaus : Due to the higher body. the lighter weight and compared to its weight the much sturdier passenger cage, you'd be in much greater danger of that in mo
72 Superfly : Not going to happen. Not sure what good that would do a for a tractor-trailer big rig. Judging by that video, I much rather be in the Mercedes C-clas
73 Klaus : When you're sliding underneath a truck, that would likely be a bad choice, since in this kind of impact the crumple zones aren't used anyway but the
74 A342 : We were talking about sliding underneath a truck. A heavy vehicle (with higher kinetic energy than a smaller one) is more likely to get stuck in ther
75 MD11Engineer : That's impossible. E.g. trucks going to construction sites (or other off road areas) need a high road clearanace for this purpose. On the other hand,
76 Canuckpaxguy : How did that happen?
77 ACDC8 : Should be federal. I think its more than an impression. Up here, I see cars on a daily basis that scare the hell out of me and I doubt very much that
78 Superfly : She me some numbers. Yep, It's called the Pontiac Aztec.
79 ACDC8 : Who's "she"? Show me some numbers that prove they do know, or rather, get them fixed when needed. All you need to do is open your eyes at vehicles ar
80 STT757 : A few weeks ago when we had that big snow fall here in New Jersey my Wife got hit hard by a front end loader plowing her parking lot at Work, thankful
81 Superfly : Not around here. It's possible that they may let the paint and other cosmetics go while keeping the important stuff (engine, brakes, trans.) working
82 Falstaff : I love Michigan. We have total vehicle freedom. No pesky regulations to get in the way.
83 Tugger : I have often wondered why California doesn't have a vehicle inspection in place like many states do. I mean we already require smog checks, why not b
84 Superfly : Let's just all keep 'hush-hush' on the matter. I don't want anyone in Sacramento to catch wind of this.
85 ACDC8 : How do you know that? The rest could even be in even worse shape than you're aware of. You don't need an epidemic, but I'm willing to argue that quit
86 Superfly : ...because there is no epidemic of people losing their brakes here in California. We have lots & lots of hills and mountains. People make sure their
87 L410Turbolet : Would airlines do all the necessary checks and inspection without the FAA?
88 Superfly : Sure. Crashing is bad for business, don't ya think? Anyhow, I am not sure why some are so surprised or outraged that California and many other states
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