PROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4 Posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3551 times:
The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety crash-tested three of the new "minicar" models, putting each through a 40 mph offset frontal crash with a midside vehicle by the same manufacturer: Smart Fortwo vs. Mercedes C-Class, Toyota Yaris vs. Toyota Camry, and Honda Fit vs. Honda Accord. Suffice to say that the minicars failed. Dreadfully so. Shockingly so.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40035 posts, RR: 74
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3495 times:
Uh-oh, this goes against the dominant belief that minicars are infallible, green, safe and good for the environment.
I don't expect this story to get much ink.
Just more proof that environmentalist don't give a damn about the safety of their fellow humans.
Cadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3477 times:
The other day I was on the highway and saw a suburban, and behind that was a smart. behind that was an explorer. If that suburban stopped. The pelvis of the Smart driver would be come a hood ornament for that Explorer. But hey, let them spend 20k and get 30mpg's on 93 octane!
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
LOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3353 times:
I saw a Yaris rear end a Ford F-250 last week. It was laughable at best. I didnt know if I should cry for the 2 inches of chipped paint on the pickup or if I should roll down my window and laugh at the stupid woman for driving in that worthless excuse of a go-kart who was being loaded into the ambulance.
Its amazing what people will do to compromise safety and try to defy pure physics.
The problem is, regardless of tests, airbags, technology, and anything else in these minicars, the law of physics simply overrides it all. It is impossible to make a Yaris stand up to a larger vehicle, let alone an average sized Camry.
Bok269 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 2104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3294 times:
Quoting 767Lover (Reply 6): This might be a dumb question, but aren't these kinds of tests supposed to be carried out before the vehicle goes to market?
Tests are in fact done before a car goes on the market. However, there is a minimum threshold of survivability that needs to be met in the government tests. The IIHS tests (the ones this thread discusses) go above and beyond the government tests.
Baroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3279 times:
Quoting Pyrex (Reply 11): And yet Europe seems to have road fatality rates similar to or less than those in the U.S....
Tsk tsk Pyrex, not allowed to point out nasty stats like that. Also no information on how much less likely you are to be hit being as how you are a smaller object. I always hire the smallest car possible to go to the airport on the principle that I am a smaller target.
Is this thread a plea to be allowed to build SUVs the size of a B double, including load?
GuitrThree From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2059 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3277 times:
Quoting Pyrex (Reply 11): And yet Europe seems to have road fatality rates similar to or less than those in the U.S....
And I would guess that's because Europe has a SMALL percentage of high speed roads (interstates) compared to the vast number of miles found in America.
That, and the fact that Europeans are just about forced to drive in these death traps, so usually its a small car vs small car crash, while in America, people who drive these smart cars face a much more higher percentage of collisions with larger personal vehicles such a mid and full sized cars and trucks.
This has NOTHING to do with Europe vs. the USA.
I was singling out environmentalist , NOT Europeans.
Worth noting, it was a European sedan (Mercedes C-Class) used in the crash test as being a safer car than the Smart car.
No mention of an SUV in this article.
Let's please stay on topic and discuss the facts mentioned in this article.
Derico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4314 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3252 times:
Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 13): That, and the fact that Europeans are just about forced to drive in these death traps, so usually its a small car vs small car crash, while in America,
Cars is one of the only areas I'm not for total freedom. I'm glad Europans are ''forced'' to drive death traps, which they are not in Europe since most cars are small.
It is not a right to drive a massive vehicle capable of producing incredible harm on others, and damage to the environment. This discussion is a mute point now anyways for the most parts people in the US are waking up to buying smaller cars. There's a reason your automakers are failed auto manufacturers. No one on Earth wants to drive huge vehicles when there is no legitimate reason (regular cargo) to do so. I say tax people that want to drive huge vehicles to death to pay for their wreckless driving habits (it's well known people that drive bigger vehicles
drive more aggresively), when they buy the car, and tax them to death again at the gasoline station with a special pollution/energy wasting tax. Pay to Play.
Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 13): And I would guess that's because Europe has a SMALL percentage of high speed roads (interstates) compared to the vast number of miles found in America.
Check out a travel map of Europe. France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, Italy have just as dense if not more dense system of expressways, with England and Spain very close.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
Sorry for singling you out, Superfly, but my point was that people here claiming that smaller cars are less safe are wrong. As an example of that, I gave Europe, which has a big predominance of smaller cars and is just as safe or safer than the U.S. I was not trying to do this a Europe vs U.S. thing.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
Jush From Germany, joined Apr 2005, 1636 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3206 times:
Well, still, this little investigation ist just nicely put to fit American views that you need a bigger car.
Fact is: You need no test to say that a head on collision between a smart and a c class is no nice thing to be put in.
Same goes for c class vs. S-class at 40 or 50 mph.
Thing is though. In Europe these small cars drive around for ages and still the death tolls are coming down. The smart and the other cars are safe and pass all test (for example the NCAP test) perfectly.
It's a very one-sided test to let a big vehicle crash into a small one. Plus head on collision rarely occur. I would rather worry about side-collisions which are much more common.
There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
JJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1883 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3158 times:
Anyone have data on how what % of accidents/fatalities are head-ons?
I read something about rollovers accounting for a disproportionate amount of road casualties in the US.
Some food for thought: 2005 data of road fatalities per capita
US is at 14,75 dead per 100.000 people. The only euro countries over that number are Greece, Croatia, Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia and Russia.
Germany, for example, stands at 8,03, the UK at 5,81.
Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 13): And I would guess that's because Europe has a SMALL percentage of high speed roads (interstates) compared to the vast number of miles found in America
You're wrong on that approach. Casualties on dual-lane high-speed roads are negligible. It's back roads with bad pavement, tight bends etc. that kill most road casualties and then, it's not crashing against another car what kills most people, but leaving the road and hitting an stationary object or rolling over.
Lewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3672 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3153 times:
It all depends on circumstances and the general environment on the road. In the US, most cars are medium to large in size, while in Europe most people ride on small/medium hatches.
I was once driving behind an H3 in Athens and I could clearly see that, in case of a collision, he would just drive over me due to the difference in height. Similarly, if I collided with a truck, even with my parents' sedan, chances are I wouldn't survive. If for some reason Americans decided to drive even bigger cars or trucks, you would stop feeling safe in a Sedan.
I hate the mentality that some people have in Greece that drives them to buy ther KIDS big SUVs so that they can be safe, but at the expense of other cars/pedestrians that they might hit due to reckless/inexperienced driving.
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3127 times:
Quoting Jush (Reply 20): Well, still, this little investigation ist just nicely put to fit American views that you need a bigger car.
Very true. I have a Smart car and very happy with it. I have seen crashes where large top name cars have been mangled with the whole front off. One accident was where a BMW was overtaking and a lorry came the other way. The BMW went under the lorry and ripped the whole roof off and beheaded the driver. The Police told us to turn back rather than pass the other side of the road as it was too horrific. No car is safe.
Racko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3205 times:
At least here, the vast majority of fatal accidents happen on country roads when drivers leave the road and hit a stationary object. That's why cars are crashtested for exactly these kinds of accidents, not for head-ons and not for planes crashing on their roof.
The famous Autobahn is actually very safe, even without a speed limit.
: I was going to suggest we do crash tests comparing the safety of the typical large car to a huge semi or a huge rail locomotive. Then we can similarl
: Back in 1999 or 2000, when the Smart first appeared, one of Germany's reputable car magazines crashed it against an S-class. It performed remarkably w
: When I bought my car I saw some collision tests online, and they had both collisions with stationary objects and with other cars. In both cases, the
: And you should add that most EU countries have higher speed limits than the US or Canada... Where exactly in North America are these high speed roads
: A more relevant comparison would be the the amount of miles driven and the percentage of drivers vs the fatality rate. Im also wondering why Italy, w
: Not sure what's so shocking or worth arguing about with this article. Yes, the micro-cars are little death traps. Maybe some buyers like to believe th
: Italy is comfortably below the US at 11,7. The most dangerous place to drive in Europe are the baltics If there's some data on fatalities per mile dr
: Now imagine a head-on crash between two of those and you're back to square 1 again!
33 David L
: We are? That news doesn't seem to have filtered down to the common people over here. "Mini" cars are still very much the exception. I drove 40-odd mi
: That has got to be exclusively down to the fact that Massholes don't drive a lot in general (Boston is not car-friendly and has good-ish public trans
: So I guess the rest of us who dont live in Boston dont count? Speak for yourself. I happen to just be an impatient driver. Its all the other d-bags o
: Do you really need to ask? I was making a generalization, obviously - of course that people that live outside of Boston do tend to drive more, but si
: Considering most people out there had no qualms about increasing the gas tax but god forbid we touch their tolls, Yes. Lets just say that some of our
: I would say that this report proves several things: 1.) Large cars are more dangerous than small cars based on the laws of physics, and should therefo
39 David L
: Pardon my ignorance but... you're being sarcastic, right? A report suggesting that smaller cars are less safe than bigger cars indicates that bigger
: The report actually does not say anything about the safety of larger or smaller cars as such. It just says that in an unsymmetric head-on crash the s
: Actually, it's that large cars are more dangerous to others around them than small cars! Yes, I am. But it is strangely logical: Who do you get rid o
: That would work if the small cars could fend for themselves. But in nearly every test, the Smart goes flying on impact.
: EXACTLY!! Those darned bully big cars are just mean and need to be taken off the road! Tugg
: As much as I hate the Smart it is not too bad in crash test. http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/html_s...crashtest/mini/smartsidedetail.htm It's in German
: That was not a collision with another moving car. It just slammed in to a stationary tool box and the car still gets airborne and is jumping all over
: A little statistics session for Austria (2008): 39,173 total accidents with injuries or fatalities 5,290 head-on collisions (the ones this thread is
: "Jumping all over the place" is totally irrelevant to whether the car is considered safe or not. What matters is whether and/or how much the passenge
: There's no way that there would be such a disparity between a C-class and an S-class as there was between a Smart and a C-class. I don't know about t
: Yes they are. Depending on how much time you invest and how talented you are the theory and practice will take you around 3-5 month to get your drive
: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Most states have safety inspections in which a car must pass. More like your impression deceiving the real situation
: Well than if you don't have money and never drive into a garage no one will stop you from driving an unsafe car until you crash. Is this correct?
: No, they fix it themselves. I did that myself when I was a broke college student. We don't like rear-ending folks and running in to things. Even the
53 David L
: Which report are you referring to? The one referenced in the OP contains such comments as... "What happens in the front-to-front collision says a lot
: I wonder how fast that van was traveling. Those vans usually score well in crash tests.
: ...in the event of a front collision with a lighter object. As a blanket statement, this is not true. Bigger, heavier vehicles have safety concerns o
: AFAIK, it was the standardized EuroNCAP front impact crash test at 64 km/h into an offset deformable barrier. http://www.euroncap.com/tests/chrysler_
: As noted in the IIHS page, crash test ratings can only be compared against cars of similar weight. My point exactly.
: The Mini Cooper isn't mentioned in the article, but mine did an allright job when I wrecked it.
59 David L
: It applies in the event of a front collision with any object. Would you rather smash into a brick wall at 50 mph in a Smart Car or a BMW/Jaguar/Merce
: I'm surprised the cars did that well! 70mph is well over the usual crash test speeds of around 40mph. Also, when it comes to a concrete wall, or tree
: Speaking of new small cars, saw my first Kia Soul on the road today, and have to admit, I like the way it looks! Wouldn't mind having one......