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Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage  
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11564 posts, RR: 52
Posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6106 times:

Carrie Prejean, Miss California answering a question from Perez Hilton about gay marriage in the finals for the Miss America pageant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LPv9L6sy5c

And Perez Hilton's response: http://perezhilton.com/tv/index.php?ptvid=0bad59ed42807


I have to say, this actually kind of pisses me off. Miss California was denied Miss America it appears entirely because she believes that marriage should be between a man and a woman. You know what? A lot of people believe that. Probably the majority of Americans still believe that. And the vast majority of people who describe themselves as Christian believe that.

So that's why I can say I'm angered that Perez Hilton, an openly gay man, knowing that Carrie Prejean attends San Diego Christian College (meaning she's likely very religious), would ask her this divisive question, when he probably already knew the answer.

I'm generally for gay rights, but i think Perez Hilton has shot his cause in the foot by further dividing the groups. And besides, it's a freakin' beauty contest!! Pick the prettiest girl! Don't go political. This was not the time or place for a gay rights debate.

Someone please tell me where I'm wrong.  Smile


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125 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBwest From Belgium, joined Jul 2006, 1379 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6091 times:

Why does it make you angry that she lost? It just means that the majority of the voters in that contest apparently didn't agree with her views.

The girl has her opinion, she's entitled to one, but if that turns off people to vote for her, she has to accept that.



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User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11564 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6086 times:



Quoting Bwest (Reply 1):
Why does it make you angry that she lost?

Because the outspoken gay rights judge asked that question of the evangelical girl. He didn't ask anyone else, and I don't think that topic belongs in a beauty contest.

And I don't see how it helps the gay rights cause to have bigotry towards evangelicals. Two wrongs don't make a right, ya know?



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User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8948 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6072 times:

Quoting Bwest (Reply 1):

The girl has her opinion, she's entitled to one, but if that turns off people to vote for her, she has to accept that.

The judge in question decided to HATE her, because of her personal beliefs. She was asked a question, and she answered it very diplomatically, I think.

Did you bother to see the judge's response? He demands tolerance, but is absolutely intolerant of others.

I think he should be thrown off the panel, all his votes eliminated and the results recounted, if possible.

[Edited 2009-04-21 04:43:20]


Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6025 times:

His video blog on the issue and Miss California pretty much says it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_QhM3TK2UE&feature=related

There may have been some boos but when she answers he questions I heard a lot more applause and cheering than boos in the video segment leading up to the following interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klT0aSRTuDQ

I've never really heard Mr. Hilton before but after these two videos I have to wonder why he ws even chosen as a judge.


User currently offlineYooYoo From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 6057 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6020 times:

So Perez thinks she's a dumb bitch....just because she doesn't have the same view/belief?. So much for being able to speak your mind.
I may not agree with Miss CA answer but i commend her for speaking her mind and not caving in to what "she was supposed to say".


Edit: changed stupid to dumb and wanted to show that i don't think she's a dumb bitch but that is what Perez called her.  smile 

[Edited 2009-04-21 06:20:31]


I am so smart, i am so smart... S-M-R-T... i mean S-M-A-R-T
User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2222 posts, RR: 35
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6001 times:



Quoting YooYoo (Reply 5):
She's stupid bitch....just because she doesn't have the same view/belief?. So much for being able to speak your mind.
I may not agree with Miss CA answer but i commend her for speaking her mind and not caving in to what "she was supposed to say".

I think she answered correctly. It's just that Perez is such a douche that he doesn't tolerate that not everyone support's the gays. The current law is on the girl's side in most states and IMHO even bringing up this topic at a pageant is just wrong. Perez's response is even worse is the guy should be hanged.


User currently offlineYooYoo From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 6057 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5989 times:



Quoting Runway23 (Reply 6):

My earlier version of my post looked like i was calling Miss CA a dumb bitch when all i wanted to do was just quote Perez.



I am so smart, i am so smart... S-M-R-T... i mean S-M-A-R-T
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8625 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5971 times:
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while I am saddened by this young womans ignorance and lack of compassion for others I do believe that she has the right to express her views without being punished for it .


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5948 times:

Although I really can't stand this leach, he is spot on as to what he says in the video. Listen at the 1:10 mark to the 1:26 mark. It is for the states to decide on their own....As for the rest of the video its just boasting and blabber....


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6674 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5939 times:
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Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
Someone please tell me where I'm wrong. Smile



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):

The judge in question decided to HATE her, because of her personal beliefs. She was asked a question, and she answered it very diplomatically, I think.



Quoting YooYoo (Reply 5):
So Perez thinks she's a dumb bitch....just because she doesn't have the same view/belief?.

I disagree. She can believe whatever she want. The fact is that she did not express herself with the eloquence and dignity that has always characterized the like of Miss America is what lost her such coveted price

"Prejean: “I think it’s great that Americans are able to choose one or the other. We live in a land that you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage and, you know what, in my country and my family I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman.

“No offense to anyone out there, but that’s how I was raised and that’s how I think it should be between a man and a woman.”

I disagree. She can believe whatever she want. The fact is that she did not express herself with the eloquence and dignity that has always characterized the like of Miss America is what lost her such coveted price

"opposite marriage" what the hell does that mean?

"I think that i believe" sound very convincing.

That being said.. Perez is an idiot but, since here are straight stupid people everywhere. Why can there be one stupid gay one?



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User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11564 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5926 times:



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 10):
"opposite marriage" what the hell does that mean?

It means opposite-sex marriage. Hetero marriage.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 9):
It is for the states to decide on their own....

Actually, that's not legally true, I don't think. But that's neither here nor there.

The real issue is that this woman has a religious conviction that I kind of feel is being punished.

This question wasn't asked in a vacuum -- it was asked by the gay judge to the evangelical contestant, like he was setting out to discredit her. She was probably pretty taken aback.



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User currently offlineMBMBOS From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2612 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5927 times:



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 10):
The fact is that she did not express herself with the eloquence and dignity that has always characterized the like of Miss America is what lost her such coveted price...

I heard her response and what impressed me about it was her shallow and disorganized delivery. She can believe in whatever she chooses to believe in - I have no problem with that. But she is in a popularity contest, after all, where the ability to shine while be asked a tricky question is something the contestants are judged on.

The other contestants were quizzed on politically charged questions as well.

If she lost the crown because of her political beliefs, it would be a shame. But I'm not convinced this is the case. Furthermore this is a beauty pageant. It's amazing how much outrage it has generated.


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11564 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5921 times:



Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 12):
If she lost the crown because of her political beliefs, it would be a shame.

Willie Geist on Morning Joe was a judge, and he said that Perez's scores for her were much lower than the other judges.

And it's more her religious beliefs than her political beliefs. That's what I find disturbing.

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 12):
It's amazing how much outrage it has generated.

Ehh, it's something to talk about.  Smile



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User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6674 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5920 times:
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Quoting D L X (Reply 11):

It means opposite-sex marriage. Hetero marriage.

See if you have to explain it - she did not convey her point eloquently enough.. therefore.. Therefore.. the stage door is that way sister!

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):

This question wasn't asked in a vacuum -- it was asked by the gay judge to the evangelical contestant, like he was setting out to discredit her. She was probably pretty taken aback.

Which further proves that she is not prepared to think on her pumps. She could have stuck to her beliefs and answered smartly.



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User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11564 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5888 times:



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 14):
See if you have to explain it - she did not convey her point eloquently enough..

Oh come on. Setting this example aside, that statement is illogical on its face. If I have to explain it -- to you -- it could just as easily be your fault that you didn't understand it. I mean, *I* understood it, why didn't you?  Smile (See?)

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 14):
Which further proves that she is not prepared to think on her pumps.

Do you really think that's why Perez Hilton gave her low marks?

Not being eloquent does not make you a stupid b----. No, Perez's problem with Ms. Cali was personal.



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User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6674 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5870 times:
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Quoting D L X (Reply 15):

Oh come on. Setting this example aside, that statement is illogical on its face. If I have to explain it -- to you -- it could just as easily be your fault that you didn't understand it. I mean, *I* understood it, why didn't you? Smile (See?)

I did understand it, what i was trying to say - is that it is not proper English.

Quoting D L X (Reply 15):

Do you really think that's why Perez Hilton gave her low marks?

Not being eloquent does not make you a stupid b----. No, Perez's problem with Ms. Cali was personal.

No, i agree he is not a role model, and he did over react. Straight people overact all the time; and they not given as much grief.



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User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17821 posts, RR: 46
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5853 times:



Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
So that's why I can say I'm angered that Perez Hilton, an openly gay man, knowing that Carrie Prejean attends San Diego Christian College (meaning she's likely very religious), would ask her this divisive question, when he probably already knew the answer.

Perez Hilton is a giant piece of sh!t that should just explode never to be heard from again. He has no redeeming qualities whatsoever and is an embarassment to humans, never mind gays. Coincidentally, so is the Miss America pageant.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21520 posts, RR: 53
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5819 times:

Bigotry is becoming less popular as time goes on.

It's simply progress in my book.  cool 


User currently offlineN229nw From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 1972 posts, RR: 31
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5791 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 19):
Perez Hilton is a giant piece of sh!t that should just explode never to be heard from again. He has no redeeming qualities whatsoever and is an embarassment to humans, never mind gays. Coincidentally, so is the Miss America pageant.

Perfectly put.

Part of what is silly about this thing is that he asked her that question, but the other finalist did NOT have to answer it. There is a good chance her answer would have been the same, or worse, in which case the judgment is unfair. In any case, beauty contests such as this are a largely a farce--the judgments are always quite arbitrary and they have practically no positive influence on anything or anyone.

And, like, U.S. Americans are unable to do so because the Iraq and the South Africa and we should all have maps, and, like the Iraq!

[Edited 2009-04-21 08:46:54]


It's people like you what cause unrest!
User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4916 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5792 times:

Hold up, you mean people actually watch Miss America without muting the TV? Wow.

As for the footage, talk about a disingenuous answer. Also I'm not sure she fully got the question...


YOWza



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User currently offlineYellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5741 times:



Quoting D L X (Reply 13):
And it's more her religious beliefs than her political beliefs. That's what I find disturbing.

I disagree. If the issue was purely her religious beliefs, she could have responded that she disagreed with gay marriage on religious grounds, but that it should nevertheless be legal because of equal protection and separation of church and state. As soon as you make the jump from "gay marriage is wrong" to "gay marriage should remain illegal," you make it a political issue.



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User currently offlineZentraedi From Japan, joined Jun 2007, 660 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5684 times:

Let's look at what she said:

Quoting Carrie Prejean, Miss California (Beauty Contestant):
I think it's great that Americans are able to choose one or the other. We live in a land that you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage and,

Going from that, it seems as if she didn't even get the question. Great that Americans can choose one or the other? Since when is the issue about be able to choose which type of marriage? Also, living in a land that you choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage? Doesn't she live in California where they banned same-sex marriage? Then, how is choice on the matter "great" if your position is not to permit gay marriage at all?

Quoting Carrie Prejean, Miss California (Beauty Contestant):
you know what, in my country and my family I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman. No offense to anyone out there but that's how I was raised and that's how I think it should be between a man and a woman.

This part is fine, but she completely fumbled that first half.

[Edited 2009-04-21 10:40:44]

User currently offlineYellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5651 times:



Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 24):
This part is fine, but she completely fumbled that first half.

Except that it also has little to do with the question, which was about legalization of gay marriage, not about her personal opinion of gay marriage.



Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5688 times:



Quoting DXing (Reply 4):
I've never really heard Mr. Hilton before but after these two videos I have to wonder why he ws even chosen as a judge

Nothing happens by accident ... seems like a good set up to me. Perfectly plotted to bring up the discussion again. That is what is wanted ... they want to ostracize anyone who does not agree with them. She should have said that she Joins President Obama in his support of traditional marriage ... now that would have been a great answer.



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25 Mt99 : It would have actually. It would have proved she was smart. AGM, how do you look in a bikini? time for a career change?
26 Santosdumont : Off topic, but anybody remember the hubbub over that fine cougar Vannessa Williams in 1984? The Miss America pageant committee went apeshit after som
27 MBMBOS : Who are "they", AGM100? Who is it exactly? Do you have evidence of a homosexual conspiracy to overthrow beauty pageants? Or is there some sort of tho
28 2707200X : She may well be a darling of the right just like Joe the Plumber as she portrays herself as a victim of the left.
29 B6JFKH81 : My major problem with this entire thing is that this contest should not be a platform for political agenda. We expect certain "political" things to be
30 AGM100 : Damn HOT ! Sorta like a A Micky Rourqe , Brett Favre thing . If she just wanted to win she just could have said yes she agrees with it . She could ha
31 Mt99 : No. It probably have been a complete non-issue really. or can you see the Breaking News on CNN and BBC News: "Miss America approves of Gay Marriage".
32 NIKV69 : So do the majority of Californians. Absolutely, this was totally orchestrated and Perez Hilton has lost all credibility. He makes me sick, he used th
33 Mt99 : Be that as it may.. she could have answered the same question much much better not having to compromise any of her beliefs
34 Santosdumont : While I think that Perez should have avoided foisting his political agenda on pageant participants and viewers, it's important to bear in mind that t
35 Klaus : Oh, sure. Discrimination is so progressive...! You go into a popularity contest, you state your bigoted opinions, you are unpopular, you lose. Where'
36 NIKV69 : How? By lying and saying she was in favor of it? Unfortunately in our twisted society these people are actually something now. So? You have any idea
37 Mt99 : No no need to lie. If i would look half as hot as AGM in a bikini, and i were asked that question id probably go with something along the lines of: "
38 Santosdumont : No, but by saying that it's an intensely personal and private issue, something like that. To deflect the obviously loaded question by P. Hilton. Unfo
39 Yellowstone : Or by saying that she was personally opposed to gay marriage, but that her religious views shouldn't dictate government policy. How is this any diffe
40 AGM100 : Then why ask the question in the first place ... ? Yep , she said she didn't care if she lost because of it. so whats the problem?. And her view is n
41 NIKV69 : Would not have worked, Hilton was looking for one answer and anything but that was going to cook her which it did. We are not talking about the world
42 Klaus : Bigotry doesn't get any better by being a majority position. If that's even really the case.
43 Zentraedi : Oh come on. How are you gonna just ignore that jibberish that came out as her response?
44 Johnboy : Oh don't feel too sorry for her.....i'm sure she'll make the news rounds, cry and pout about not winning Miss USA because "I stood up for my BELIEFS!!
45 Mt99 : This is your supposition.
46 Sv7887 : Give me a break. Are you actually saying anyone who disagrees with gay marriage is a bigot? Using your argument the KKK could call all of us bigots,
47 RussianJet : Very fair comment, particularly given Hilton's disgusting and irrefutably rude and offensive comments about Miss California afterwards.
48 Klaus : In the absence of any plausible impact on the complainant justifying it, the desire to have others discriminated does make that person a bigot indeed
49 Sv7887 : Your interpretation, especially on the plausible impact. Her opposition cost her the title, so according to your definition she has every right to fe
50 Mt99 : These are two conflicting arguments. If Civil Unions are supported by "society", how come there is no one seams to be worried about having Civil Unio
51 Us330 : What she said was her opinion, and Perez Hilton is a giant douchebag who makes his living badmouthing everybody. Does anybody really care what comes o
52 Klaus : Justifying bigotry with the negative reactions it provokes is about as cynical as it gets. You're really not helping your case.
53 Sv7887 : What case is that? I'm just stating facts. You're the one making value judgments not me. You're temporizing here. You and some other posters establis
54 Klaus : In a popularity contest you can make yourself unpopular by demanding discrimination of other people. And that can cost you the title of the most popu
55 DocLightning : I agree completely with the OP. This wasn't anyone's business to ask. She has a right to her view. And the uproar and administrative action has merel
56 Sv7887 : And you are just throwing the label "bigot" around to get what you want. You're justifying discrimination and bigotry yourself by endorsing his actio
57 Santosdumont : Nevertheless, this young lady unfortunately fell into Hilton's trap. The object of these pageants is to win. As such, she should have blunted the que
58 Klaus : An end to unjustified discrimination? Yes, I want that. And yes, the desire to have others discriminated is bigotry, there's just no way around it. U
59 Sv7887 : And what happened to her was justified? You are totally contradicting yourself. You have every right to criticize her if you want, but endorsing her
60 Klaus : You're going completely off the rails here. She saw her popularity in a popularity contest sag after exposing her bigotry. That's it.
61 Yellowstone : The whole "liberals are the real bigots" argument ignores the fact that the opinions liberals tend not to want to tolerate are those that are intoler
62 Tugger : Has anybody here mentioned that apparently Miss Prejean's sister is in the Air Force and is active in supporting gay rights? Doesn't change her statem
63 Yellowstone : Correction - they have a right to express their views without the government punishing them. We as private citizens, on the other hand, have every ri
64 Post contains images N229NW : Another great post. All his question did was make her a heroic martyr in the eyes of many. HIs provocation had no benefit to anyone. Exactly, I toler
65 Sv7887 : Um no you don't. Read the Equal Opportunity Laws. You also don't have the right to insult, abuse, or harm them in any other way. The United States al
66 TRVYYZ : No you dont.
67 TylerDurden : According to Gallup, 60% of Americans feel that marriage is a private matter between individuals of either sex and should not be subject to any gover
68 Post contains links Sv7887 : It's murky what the public really thinks: http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/04...liticalhotsheet/entry4917681.shtml "Although six in 10 Americans thi
69 WarRI1 : Without taking one side or another on the real issue. My one opinion here is that Perez Hilton is a moron. Pathetic representative for anyone. Gay or
70 TylerDurden : Agreed. It's even stranger that these opinions don't actually translate into votes---as California found out with Prop. 8....
71 Yellowstone : I recognize, and probably should have mentioned, that there are non-governmental organizations that also can't discriminate based on acts of speech.
72 Post contains links Sv7887 : She answered truthfully in a pretty cogent fashion. He called her a dumb bitch and later a cunt for essentially not telling him what he wanted to hea
73 RussianJet : She expressed her personal beliefs. She has not actively treated anyone differently, therefore she has not discriminated against anyone. One could ar
74 Carlisle : IMHO the situation was: - a blatant set up against a contestant - a platform for political agenda - as a result of the above used to create media atte
75 Dreadnought : I suppose you think Obama is a bigot as well? He's declared himself against gay marriage.
76 Solnabo : . Perez Hilton is a jerk / dramaqueen, don´t like him at all... Ms Cal have every right to express her view of marriage. My 2 cents //Micke
77 Klaus : Advocating the discrimination of others in the absence of any direct danger to others is bigotry no matter who does it and regardless whether it is b
78 RussianJet : Excuse? Perhaps he has reasons for holding the opinion he does, reasons which might go beyond 'political opportunism'.
79 Offloaded : Not that she was on trial here, but maybe: "I respectfully decline to answer that question based on my constitutional rights as guaranteed to me by th
80 Klaus : Of course that may be the case. But political opportunism would actually be the less problematic explanation here. Active bigotry is even worse than
81 Dreadnought : It's hardly bigotry when everyone is free to marry a person of the opposite sex just like everyone else. Would you be a bigot if you disapproved of m
82 Offloaded : No, but the dishwasher and fridge would raise hell.
83 Post contains images Klaus : "It's hardly undemocratic when everybody is free to vote just for the one party that's allowed." Notice anything? I wouldn't have a problem with that
84 MBMBOS : Here's a little experiment for you; let's change your phrase just a little bit: "It's hardly bigotry when everyone is free to marry a person of the s
85 Venus6971 : Is Marriage a legal term defined by the state or a religious term defined by the church? When a couple goes to the court house to get a marriage lisce
86 Mt99 : I think that most of the gay community would care less about the being Married in the Catholic Church. We just want them to stay out of it.
87 Idealstandard : She has the right to explain her own opinion. She was brought up that way and those are her beliefs. If some people don't agree, then that is their ow
88 Venus6971 : To paraphrase Voltaire " I don't agree with what you just said but I will defend your right to say it."
89 Post contains links D L X : Those two things are not inconsistent. The majority may think it's a private matter, but when pushed to say yea or nay, they also might say it's betw
90 Klaus : Exactly. Fanatics who are actively driving discrimination by themselves do much more damage.
91 D L X : I don't think you have to be a "fanatic" to believe that marriage should not be granted to gays. I actually wonder if it's possible to be a fanatic w
92 Mt99 : Hmm you are not quoting completely. you are missing the important "my country" part. "You know what, in my country , in my family, I do believe that
93 Yellowstone : Cogent fashion? Hardly. For one thing, her claim that people in America have the ability to choose between same-sex or "opposite" marriage is blatant
94 D L X : I think it was a mistake on her part. Otherwise, it is not grammatical. Look, I don't think her answer was very artful. But I think it is improper to
95 Yellowstone : The fact that the contest includes components not based on physical attractiveness suggests that it is not just a beauty contest, even if that is the
96 PSA53 : It just a beauty contest.Not a political convention.I would accused Hilton of undermining the spirit, and that,a beauty contest.He deserved to get sma
97 Klaus : Simply consider the same question about marriage between people of different skin colour and then ask yourself that question again. It's the same min
98 Sv7887 : If she had said what Hilton wanted to hear, she would have won and he admits that. End of story. But she didn't, so he gave her a "zero" for his resp
99 Slider : I didn’t even know who Perez Hilton was until I heard about this brouhaha… What a moron. Typical lefty—wants tolerance but is intolerant of anyo
100 Post contains images D L X : I think that was serious backtracking. There was probably no way she could have said it for him to like it. That's why he gave her a zero. Even thoug
101 Klaus : Of course! The view that you could own another human being and treat him or her like cattle is about as extreme as it gets! MLK never shied away from
102 D L X : Which gets back to what I said: it can't be extreme if a majority or even a near majority believe the same thing. Now if they continue to believe it
103 PSA53 : I wonder why,as well.This should put the Miss USA people and producers under investigation of due process. And IMHO of the outcome of the contest....
104 RussianJet : Extreme by our own standards, yes. At one time it was, however, socially acceptable and viewed as the norm, and therefore by definition not necessari
105 D L X : Which one? I thought I heard Willie Geist say that Perez's score killed her chance at winning. Perez himself thinks that comment ended her run.
106 PSA53 : Sorry,don't remember a name.She was on FOX last night.I'll poke around and see if I can find a video.
107 PSA53 : Hmmm....I can't find anything on this judge. I believe she said that Prejean was too far behind to make a difference.I will say that some things on FO
108 Mt99 : Or proven to be true and contrary to the story that they want to tell..
109 Yellowstone : I had been interpreting her line about being able to choose same-sex or "opposite" marriage as referring to the individual's choice as to which they
110 D L X : What do you think she was talking about in the couple sentences before that? The part about choice. I think everyone here has criticized her for bein
111 TheCol : That's the smoking gun right there. Not that I've ever highly regarded national/international beauty pageants to begin with, it does go to show that
112 WarRI1 : Does her views on gay marriage (Free Speech and views) even come close to his petty screwing over of her ambitions. (Pure Malice) I am not a fan of t
113 Dreadnought : Well bugger, and all this time I thought it was you guys trying to impose your views, causing no small upset in the meantime, on institutions that ha
114 D L X : Off topic, but nothing about gay marriage diminishes, interferes with, or affects the institution as it applies to you.
115 Mt99 : The sacred institution of "Miss America?"
116 AerorobNZ : Who cares...there are bigger issues in the world than a Beauty queen losing a stupid meaningless pageant because some self appointed fashion/beauty 'g
117 Dreadnought : That's the excuse, but many feel differently. You should respect that. Being satisfied by civil unions, with all the legal rights of marriage Which i
118 Jamincan : If civil unions actually granted all the rights of marriage, you might have a point (though I would still advocate for same-sex marriage). Since they
119 D L X : And those people are wrong. My marriage doesn't affect yours, at all. There's just no argument against that.
120 RussianJet : I see. You demand that other people respect your opinion but refuse to respect theirs?
121 EA CO AS : I would....except in my opinion, you're absolutely correct here. Mr. Hilton shamelessly asked a loaded question with the intent of advancing his own
122 D L X : Hold up. All through this thread, I've respected Prejean's beliefs. Respect does not mean I cannot believe those beliefs are wrong. Dreadnought said
123 AC888YOW : So do you support a church/priest having the right to refuse to wed a gay couple?
124 D L X : Absolutely! If a gay couple wants to get married they have to go to the state just like a straight couple does. With license in hand, they can either
125 DocLightning : You see, Dreadnought and I *gulp* agree on this one. Nobody could support gay marriage more than I do. I am a gay man who wants nothing more than to
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