Robbie86 From Sweden, joined May 2006, 509 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1444 times:
I was just surfing around Air France's website when I found something that disturbed me. If your flying La Première/First Class the will offer you "a pure merino wool blanket"...
Merino wool comes from the Merino sheep, which are being mutilated with having a bit of their tail cut off, usually without any sort of painkillers...
One of the worst things I know is innocent animals getting hurt, so my question now is. Does anyone know of any other airline that's offering "a pure merino wool blanket" or similar products?
Me personally am not to keen about flying AF after reading this.
Next flights: ARN-LHR-IAD on BA 319/VS343 EWR-LHR-ARN on VS346/BA319
MarSciGuy From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 549 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1435 times:
Quoting Robbie86 (Thread starter):
Merino wool comes from the Merino sheep, which are being mutilated with having a bit of their tail cut off, usually without any sort of painkillers...
I should ask how much you know about sheep raising?
I grew up with my family raising multiple sheep and as a rule you cut the lambs tail when they are very young, it prevents disease...seriously, it is a godo thing and not cruel and unusual for the sheep...
We didn't have merino sheep (I don't think we did at least) so I'm not 100% sure if the process is the same but I'd guess the processes are fairly similar. If the tails on our sheep were not cut they'd be several feet long I'd wager, leaving plenty of matted wool to collect, well, you get the picture (I hope ).
"There weren't a ton of gnats there where a ton of gnats and their families as well!"
D L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10572 posts, RR: 53 Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1423 times:
Quoting MarSciGuy (Reply 1): I grew up with my family raising multiple sheep and as a rule you cut the lambs tail when they are very young, it prevents disease
Well, it looks like this question is settled.
Being an animal lover myself, I can still say, you can't listen to everything the animal activists say.
MarSciGuy From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 549 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1420 times:
Quoting MarSciGuy (Reply 1):
I grew up with my family raising multiple sheep and as a rule you cut the lambs tail when they are very young, it prevents disease
Well, it looks like this question is settled.
Being an animal lover myself, I can still say, you can't listen to everything the animal activists say.
I probably should clarify - you don't cut it persay but you put a rubber band around it tightly and it'll fall off after a day or two.
"There weren't a ton of gnats there where a ton of gnats and their families as well!"
Robbie86 From Sweden, joined May 2006, 509 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1395 times:
Quoting MarSciGuy (Reply 1): grew up with my family raising multiple sheep and as a rule you cut the lambs tail when they are very young, it prevents disease...seriously, it is a godo thing and not cruel and unusual for the sheep...
From the videos I've seen that's showing sheep raising in Australia they looked to be in real pain... There was a major debate regarding this subject here in Sweden in 2008. It ended with several clothing stores removing merino products from their shelves.
Next flights: ARN-LHR-IAD on BA 319/VS343 EWR-LHR-ARN on VS346/BA319
D L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10572 posts, RR: 53 Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1393 times:
Quoting MarSciGuy (Reply 3): I probably should clarify - you don't cut it persay but you put a rubber band around it tightly and it'll fall off after a day or two.
That's the same way they dock puppy tails.
Unlike adult mammals, many baby mammals do not have fully developed nervous systems in their extremities, and do not even feel the pain.
Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 4): From the videos I've seen that's showing sheep raising in Australia they looked to be in real pain... There was a major debate regarding this subject here in Sweden in 2008.
Do you have a link to that video? Also, do you have evidence that shows this mistreatment to be widespread amongst the industry?
Robbie86 From Sweden, joined May 2006, 509 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1379 times:
Quoting D L X (Reply 5): Do you have a link to that video? Also, do you have evidence that shows this mistreatment to be widespread amongst the industry?
D L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10572 posts, RR: 53 Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1370 times:
Those are certainly graphic videos, but let's face it: PETA has lost its credibility with its exaggerated claims over the entire span of its existence. Without a doubt, animal cruelty exists. But it's hard to accept this as evidence of widespread abuse.
Robbie86 From Sweden, joined May 2006, 509 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1358 times:
Quoting D L X (Reply 7): Those are certainly graphic videos, but let's face it: PETA has lost its credibility with its exaggerated claims over the entire span of its existence. Without a doubt, animal cruelty exists. But it's hard to accept this as evidence of widespread abuse.
If you find it hard to see it as a widespread abuse, let's keep it local then. But my main question was if anyone know about airlines offering products containing merino wool..
Next flights: ARN-LHR-IAD on BA 319/VS343 EWR-LHR-ARN on VS346/BA319
Johns624 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 781 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1349 times:
I wear merino wool socks and shirt whenever I go hiking, which is quite often. I always thought that they docked the tail to make it easier for the Scots... JUST KIDDING!
Klaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 20902 posts, RR: 55 Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1346 times:
It's probably become a necessity as a consequence of breeding sheep to have more and more wool and to not shed it naturally any more. If so, the cruelty really started a lot earlier.
Dtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1313 times:
Quoting Klaus (Reply 10):
It's probably become a necessity as a consequence of breeding sheep
This is why:
Blowfly strike, known as myiasis, is a common disease in sheep, especially in areas where there are hot and wet conditions. The female flies lay their eggs on the sheep in damp, protected areas soiled with urine and faeces, mainly on the sheep's breech (buttocks). It takes approximately 8 hours to a day for the eggs to hatch, depending on the conditions. This results in sores as the larvae lacerate the skin; this is the primary reason for the early removal of lambs' tails. The larvae then tunnel into the host's tissue causing irritating lesions. After about the second day bacterial infection occurs and if left untreated causes toxemia or septicemia. This leads to anorexia and weakness and if untreated will lead to death. Blowfly strike accounts for over $170 million a year in losses in the Australian sheep industry and so prevention measures such as mulesing are practiced. Infestation of vulvar area with larvae and maggots is called Vulvar Myiasis.
MarSciGuy From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 549 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1298 times:
It's probably become a necessity as a consequence of breeding sheep
This is why:
Blowfly strike, known as myiasis, is a common disease in sheep, especially in areas where there are hot and wet conditions. The female flies lay their eggs on the sheep in damp, protected areas soiled with urine and faeces, mainly on the sheep's breech (buttocks). It takes approximately 8 hours to a day for the eggs to hatch, depending on the conditions. This results in sores as the larvae lacerate the skin; this is the primary reason for the early removal of lambs' tails. The larvae then tunnel into the host's tissue causing irritating lesions. After about the second day bacterial infection occurs and if left untreated causes toxemia or septicemia. This leads to anorexia and weakness and if untreated will lead to death. Blowfly strike accounts for over $170 million a year in losses in the Australian sheep industry and so prevention measures such as mulesing are practiced. Infestation of vulvar area with larvae and maggots is called Vulvar Myiasis.
MillwallSean From Brunei, joined Apr 2008, 1122 posts, RR: 5 Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1225 times:
Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 14): So the moral of this tale is, short term pain for the animal equals longer & healthier life, happy sheep owners and satisfied Scots.
I think that is very much up for debate.
I don't know the merino or sheep but there has been a lot of discussions about this practice in European newspapers and its fair to say that there is no consensus at the moment.
I guess it will be settled in the European Court of Justice eventually.
In regards to dogs, more and more countries are outlawing it. Docking on dogs is banned in most EU countries now and if I understood it correctly its proposed that it should be part of the general animal welfare EU law.
An animal is not functioning at 100% without its tail, about that there is no debate. The question is if its something that causes problems for the animal later on in life or if it is like the appendix on a human.
In the case of dogs there were so much scientific evidence that it affected dogs throughout their lives and lawmakers had no other choice but to include it in the animal welfare legislation. Some European countries banned it 20 years ago while others are more recent.
My uncle who always have had boxers were very annoyed by this when it happened. But these days he is used to it and he thought it was very weird and cruel when he saw dogs in New Zealand that still had had their tails dogged. He had a go at a few of the people walking dogs with docked tails for it and they didn't understand what he was on about.
MarSciGuy From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 549 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1109 times:
Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 15):
I think that is very much up for debate.
I don't know the merino or sheep but there has been a lot of discussions about this practice in European newspapers and its fair to say that there is no consensus at the moment.
I guess it will be settled in the European Court of Justice eventually.
Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 15):
I don't know the merino or sheep
But that is what this thread is about, sheep not dogs or other pets.
This is a practice that saves the lives of the sheep and the economies of sheep farmers.
There is a huge difference between dogs and sheep! Sheep do not have their tails docked for looks or "fashion" but out of necessity. If it were for either of the first to reasons I mentioned I'd be all for calling it cruelty, but since the matter is pretty literally life or death for sheep, I'm sticking to my guns on this one
...It's hard enough burying a sheep after 12 years of raising it as a pet without any preventable problems,. let alone...
"There weren't a ton of gnats there where a ton of gnats and their families as well!"
Kent350787 From Australia, joined May 2008, 890 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1069 times:
Aside from the much larger issue of whether sheep farming in Australia is environmentally sustainable, docking and mulesing have been the accepted practices to stop the animals dying a slow and painful death.
Perhaps (probably, knowing some of the farmers) the industry hadn't responded as quickly as it should have to finding alternatives, but it's not something that can happen overnight.
Oh, I just thought of the overnight solution - slaughter the hundreds of millions of sheep in Australia - problem solved!
MillwallSean From Brunei, joined Apr 2008, 1122 posts, RR: 5 Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1037 times:
As I was pointing out the matter is up for debate in Europe. There is a strong case against docking and apparently these European experts doesn't agree with it being an accepted practice.
The practice of docking of cows, cats and dogs have been banned - both ears and tails and although not all EU countries have signed up to the legislation the majority has.
The debate has therefore started to focus on sheep.
Now I don't have the knowledge to say who is right, I am impressed that so many here has, but there seems to be plenty of arguing from two sides both armed with facts.
In the end who knows what EU courts and politicians will decide but if we look at the other similar debates regarding cows, cats and dogs, docking has been judged non acceptable.
Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 19): Oh, I just thought of the overnight solution - slaughter the hundreds of millions of sheep in Australia - problem solved!
Yes that would be a good idea, real good idea.
The containers full of sheep sent to the Middle east every year is really awful to see. Anyone that's seen one of them on arrival will stop supporting live exports...
I know that issue is discussed in Australia and organisations like RSPCA are doing its best to stop it. I guess its not easy to gain traction against such a powerful industry though.
Used to be around 7 million live sheep's going abroad annually. Not sure what the latest numbers are.
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).
But my main question was if anyone know about airlines offering products containing merino wool..
JUST KIDDING!
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