Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Modern Vs Alternative Medicine  
User currently offlineJBLUA320 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3179 posts, RR: 19
Posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1521 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Hey everyone,

So the past few months, I've been struggling with chronic pain, congestion, anxiety, depression, etc... all of which is extremely un-like me. I saw a full panel of doctors, had been on 12 prescription medications, none of which worked and some of which made my problems worse. My bloodwork and labs were all fine and when the conventional world of medicine was out of options, they said "its generalized anxiety disorder... the symptoms will go away on an anti-depressant."

I didn't believe this, so I came home on medical leave from university to see my mom's doctor in NYC who worked alongside Dr. Atkins. He ran a full panel of bloodwork, found deficiencies in the vitamin levels and took a complete history of my life and symptoms. In his opinion, anxiety is always caused by SOMETHING, it's just a matter of getting to the root of it. He was fairly certain that my underlying problem was Candida Albicans - something that my conventional doctors all snubbed. I've cut out all sugars, am on a high-protein, low-carb diet, and am taking Grapefruit Seed Extract as well as a a handful of supplements including Ashwagandha, Milk Thistle, CoQ10, D, Acidophilus, Omega 3 and a general multi-vitamin. After a week on the diet and supplements, I can see a vast improvement in my symptoms, so I have to believe Candida really was the culprit.

It got me thinking... what would I have done without this alternative medicine? I'm scared to think of what life would be like in chronic pain and conventional doctors all saying, "its in your head"...

Where do we strike the balance between the medicine of our ancestors (natural remedy) and the modern? Perhaps modern medicine overlooks the most inherently simple possibilities? What are your thoughts?

JBLU

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAF340 From Canada, joined Jul 2007, 2786 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1503 times:



Quoting JBLUA320 (Thread starter):
Perhaps modern medicine overlooks the most inherently simple possibilities?

It tends to overlook those simple possibilities until a point where those possibilities are proven, at which point they blend in to modern medicine.

All "modern" medicine was, at one point, alternative medicine.


I'm glad that this treatment seems to work for you.



Liam


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8188 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1490 times:

Quoting JBLUA320 (Thread starter):
I can see a vast improvement in my symptoms, so I have to believe Candida really was the culprit.

I had to look that one up in my wife's 40 year old medical conditions book (it's under of "Respiratory Disease Caused By Fungi") and then did a Google.

Might have comes from too many antibiotics that killed the good bacteral flora.

The definitions of the medical condition, by the way, come from traditional medical knowledge as it can be a common problem at a lower level.

At the lower level it can be diaper rash for babies, women get a yeast infection and it can be passed from person to person.

It would seem that the questions that you need the answers to are:

1. Where is the basic fungal infection?
2. What, besides your diet, do you need to directly treat the problem?
3. How long should you be in treatment before you can return to normal?

If your alternative doctor didn't provide those answers perhaps you can find another one that has a foot in both camps. Or, maybe DocLightning will drop in this thread.


Edited for spelling

[Edited 2009-05-06 18:49:32]

User currently offlineImiakhtar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1477 times:



Quoting JBLUA320 (Thread starter):
He was fairly certain that my underlying problem was Candida Albicans

C. albicans is an interesting little bugger.

It's a commensal, and is found on the mucosal surfaces ( think gut, throat, mouth) of around 50% of people and it would have been the last thing I suspected unless you were already immuno-compromised (leaukemia, advanced diabetes etc), or treated with antibiotics like tetracycline and certain steroids.

However, there was an interesting case many years ago where it was found that astronauts developed high levels of C. albicans due to stress.

Personally, I'm not a fan of alternative medicine. Many years ago, during a trip to Pakistan, I was bitten by winged insect which resulted in me suffering from a minor allergic reaction and subsequently developing a psoriasis-like ailment on my leg. As the nearest clinic was miles away, the elders thought it would be wise to use their traditional medicines which included a garlic paste!  Wow! and decided to apply it to my skin.

Suffice it to say, when I got back to the UK, my GP wasn't very happy and promptly referred me to a dermatologist. Fortunataly, the rash has all but cleared up and all that remains is a small scar.

If I were you though, I would pay another visit to your physician and explain your concerns. I'm no expert (just a humble plant biologist  Wink !).

Kind regards!


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21406 posts, RR: 54
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1465 times:

While it would be a bad idea to discard the tools modern medicine can offer, especially with psychological problems such as depression there can very well also be psychological / spiritual causes at work which can in turn produce psychosomatic effects.

So you should be careful not to overlook actual physical causes and treatments but you should also try to take good care of your emotional and spiritual needs if you've got difficulties or deficiencies there. After all, we're not just "hardware" but our "software" can have pretty far-reaching effects as well. Conventional modern medicine tends to be a bit too mechanistic for its own good (and yours!) at times, even while it can work near-miracles at others.

It all depends on what your situation is. Neither exclusive reliance on chemical band-aids nor excessive trust in dubious hocus-pocus are a good idea in my view, but it all depends on your actual situation.


User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5419 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1441 times:



Quoting AF340 (Reply 1):
It tends to overlook those simple possibilities until a point where those possibilities are proven, at which point they blend in to modern medicine.

"Modern" medicine also tends to need to be profitable, at least if it is to get attention and attention from the medicine industry. I am not implying the medical community is profit driven but the the business sure is a sure pushes profitable treatments and "cures" (of which few are really pursued as there is little profit, long term, in a cure). But I do have more faith in tested, reviewed, blind studied, modern medicine then the alternative.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 2):
Or, maybe DocLightning will drop in this thread.

Oh I am betting he will. A medical thread to Doc is like an Apple thread to Klaus....  Silly

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8188 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1420 times:



Quoting Tugger (Reply 5):
Oh I am betting he will.

Let's give him time to Google it - as a pediatrician he mainly sees this as diaper (or nappy) rash.  Smile


User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3011 posts, RR: 47
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1383 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

In my opinion, alternative medicine only works if you want it to work (the hardware/software example Klaus brought up is very appropriate). But that's fine - what counts is that it works and that the patient gets better.

And don't forget to balance modern and alternative medicine well, for example being careful not to rely on alternative medicine alone when having a serious, potentially threatening condition, which could be cured efficiently with modern medicine.

I'm a very scientific type - no alternative medicine for me, I really don't believe it would work on me (I need proof that something works, or I'll be skeptic, therefore the entire concept most alternative medicine builds on will probably fail with me). But I'm far from telling people to avoid alternative medicine. Do whatever works for you, but remember to remain critical and self-conscious of what you're doing to yourself. A doctor isn't a guru, he's a professional in his business, and you're still boss of your body.

I like to call myself a doctor's "customer" (as opposed to "patient")... and I was lucky enough to find a doctor who agrees with this concept. A visit to him (which I rarely need, fortunately) usually results in an interesting discussion with lots of things to learn every time. I wish more docs were like that...



Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21406 posts, RR: 54
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1379 times:



Quoting ManuCH (Reply 7):
I'm a very scientific type - no alternative medicine for me, I really don't believe it would work on me (I need proof that something works, or I'll be skeptic, therefore the entire concept most alternative medicine builds on will probably fail with me).

As far as mental and emotional help is concerned, some people can learn to be happier by going to their shaman, others need a diploma-wielding psychologist for the exact same purpose.

And sometimes it's the shaman who is more competent and less of an imposter...


User currently offlineAverageUser From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1369 times:

Quoting JBLUA320 (Thread starter):
"its generalized anxiety disorder... the symptoms will go away on an anti-depressant."



Quoting JBLUA320 (Thread starter):
I didn't believe this,

Doctors may have great difficulties with recognising the generalized anxiety syndrome. I've had a rather mild tendency towards it for a long time, the last time I had it was in the mid-1980s though. Late last year it overwhelmed me good basically unannounced and I had to resort to diazepams. I quickly ordered myself the astma tests, chest X-rays and the basic blood tests. I got an all clear, so I figured out it must be the same old story and started taking antidepressives. Within a month I was more or less cured for that ailment. I've also got rheumatic arthritis with fibromyalgia and consuming extra sugar always makes me more achy as well. Being depressed will make the preexisting physical conditions appear much more pronounced, so in a sense it is in your head.

I think you should be tested for Coeliac disease, it's more or less routine in this country whenever you've got a long-standing stomach ailment. If you really did have a vitamin deficiency, you either did not follow a normal healthy diet, or there's something wrong with your intestines. The only exception is vitamin D which just about everyone in the West gets too little of, for at lest part of the year, and extra folic acid for women who are pregnant or planning getting so.

The Mediterranean (Cretan) diet is the safest option healthwise for most people.

[Edited 2009-05-07 06:13:53]

User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3347 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1342 times:

Conventional medicine is defined by what works. A treatment is put through rigorous scientific testing and, if it show to have beneficial effects, it becomes a viable treatment. It doesn't matter if its grown from the ground or made in a test tube. For example, doctors do embrace things like proper diet, good exercise and vitamin supplements. They don't embrace silly, dangerous things like aromatherapy that have been shown not to work because, well, they don't work.

I don't mind if someone goes to an alternative medicine "practitioner," but I hate it when these people take advantage of patients that don't understand they're being fooled. Its not a huge deal when the person has mild allergies or slight back pain, but it becomes a huge deal when the issue is cancer.


User currently offlineJBLUA320 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3179 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1330 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting AverageUser (Reply 9):
I think you should be tested for Coeliac disease, it's more or less routine in this country whenever you've got a long-standing stomach ailment.

I have been, actually. My sister has Celiac, but my results were "borderline" both times I've been tested. I've tried a gluten-free diet twice (each for 6 weeks) with no improvement and no resistance on a gluten-challenge, so I think it's safe to say I don't have it. However, there is a close connection between Candida and Celiac, so given my sister's diagnosis, I'm not surprised that I'm in some way sensitive.

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 9):
I got an all clear, so I figured out it must be the same old story and started taking antidepressives

If you don't mind my asking, which SSRI was it? I was first tried on Cymbalta (SNRI) which was awful. I'm on Lexapro 15/mg now and I think it's really helping, along with the alternative Candida treatments.

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 7):

A visit to him (which I rarely need, fortunately) usually results in an interesting discussion with lots of things to learn every time. I wish more docs were like that...

My doctor is like this. He started as a conventional doctor, but now considers himself somewhere in the 'middle' where he believes that alternative and conventional medicine can work together, and so that's how he practices. We spent 2 1/2 hours going over history and symptoms the first time I met with him and he explained everything clearly. He also gave me his cell number and e-mail to send any further questions.

Basically, he supported the Lexapro as a bridge to get through the underlying cause of the anxiety, which he believes is the Candida. The logic is... not feeling well for a long period of time makes you anxious! So, I'm staying the course with Lexapro and also using alternative treatments for Candida, including the Candida diet and the full panel of supplements.

This stuff is certainly interesting! Thanks for the replies - interesting thoughts on here!


User currently offlineAverageUser From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1318 times:



Quoting JBLUA320 (Reply 11):
I have been, actually. My sister has Celiac, but my results were "borderline" both times I've been tested

At least here the final diagnosis either way will require a biopsy sample if the blood tests are at all positive. Both false positives and false negatives are possible. Genetic susceptibility should also be tested, and is probably present, as your sister has it. Also a latent form is possible.

Quoting JBLUA320 (Reply 11):
If you don't mind my asking, which SSRI was it? I was first tried on Cymbalta (SNRI) which was awful. I'm on Lexapro 15/mg now and I think it's really helping, along with the alternative Candida treatments.

I use Effexor, which is an SNRI as well. Any side effects will vary greatly among patients. I really would not put too much weight on the "alternative Candida treatments" since they have no indicated scientific value.


User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3347 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1305 times:



Quoting JBLUA320 (Reply 11):

If you don't mind my asking, which SSRI was it? I was first tried on Cymbalta (SNRI) which was awful. I'm on Lexapro 15/mg now and I think it's really helping, along with the alternative Candida treatments.

Just out of curiosity, how do you know the Candida treatments are helping?


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8188 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1302 times:

Years ago my wife went to a CE lecture given by a Cardiologist. The focus was on using SSRIs to protect the heart. Must have impressed (who is not easy to impress) as she came home and told me I was going on them - and any brand would do. Seems that it is far better than an aspirin in protecting the heart. Took a copy of the reports for my doc and walked out with the Rx.

User currently offlineJBLUA320 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3179 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1287 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Aa757first (Reply 13):

Just out of curiosity, how do you know the Candida treatments are helping?

Since I've started on the Candida diet (basically, no sugar, low-carb, high-protein and lots of water) and have been using Grapefruit Seed Extract and the full supplement panel, I've seen results I haven't been seeing with the Lexapro. The Lexapro is definitely kicking in and that of course helps, but my overall sense of well-being is increasing. I think if I can fully emerge from this all, I'll be in a better position health-wise than I was before any of this ever started and I thought I was living normally.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19389 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1221 times:

Ah, Candida and the hooplah she causes.

I can treat Candida far more quickly than a sugar-free diet can. In fact, I can kill essentially every yeast in your body in about 72 hours. Fluconazole 100mg PO daily will do the job quite nicely. You can keep it up for a week if you're *really* paranoid about it.

But you won't feel better.

So, JBLU, why did you feel better on these diets and supplements? Well, I can't answer that question, but I can assure you that Candida had nothing to do with it.

I use complimentary and alternative medicine in my practice all the time. I recommend melatonin for sleep in kids with ADHD (it's only been demonstrated to work in patients with ADHD, not in neurotypical patients). Fish oil and St. John's Wort for depression. Short-Term High-Dose vitamin C for colds. Honey for night-time cough in sick kids.

All of these have some science behind them demonstrating efficacy in double-blind placebo trials.

But here's the thing about many of these special diets. If you do a careful placebo-controlled diet in which you give some people a pill full of nothing and some people a pill full of the presumed offending substances to be avoided, you find no difference in improvement between the two. Similarly, if you put one group of people on the special diet and the other group of people on a special diet that goes against the theory, you will find that both groups improve about equally well. In other words, the effect is no different from placebo.

So does that mean it's worthless? Well, I don't think so. I think that if a treatment makes you better, then it doesn't matter why it did. If it was a placebo, great. If it had a biological effect, great. But if you were suffering horrible stomach cramps and now you aren't, then that's wonderful and I won't stop you from eating your special diet as long as it is not an unhealthy diet (and I've seen people develop severe malnutrition from special diets).

Many of the diseases that respond well to complimentary therapy are the so-called functional diseases. These are diseases in which patients complain of symptoms, although there is nothing to find physically wrong with them. The most well-known functional disease is the migraine. Irritable Bowel Syndrome and Fibromyalgia are other functional syndromes. They're horribly frustrating to treat with modern medicine because there are no really good treatments. But a trip to an accupuncturist often clears them right up. So that's where I send them. It's amazing, when people are convinced they will get better, they get better.

But you do really have to watch out for people who claim to treat organisms that don't exist or organisms that are ubiquitous. 100% of humans over the age of 2 weeks are colonized with Candida species. Claiming that this is responsible for non-specific abdominal symptoms is like having a car crash on a clear day and blaming the clear day for it.


User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3011 posts, RR: 47
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1217 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
So does that mean it's worthless? Well, I don't think so. I think that if a treatment makes you better, then it doesn't matter why it did. If it was a placebo, great. If it had a biological effect, great. But if you were suffering horrible stomach cramps and now you aren't, then that's wonderful and I won't stop you from eating your special diet as long as it is not an unhealthy diet

Thank you Doc, you basically put down in writing what I've been trying to express for years. I'll print it out and frame it (OK, not for real), but at least I'll have someone to quote in those endless modern vs alternative medicine discussions that show up all the time among friends  Smile



Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Modern Medicine - Did I Really Need 9 Pills? posted Mon Mar 28 2005 04:52:13 by FlyingTexan
Alternative Rock Vs. Rap posted Mon Aug 6 2001 20:31:27 by Boeingfan4life
Direct TV Vs. Time Warner Cable posted Wed Apr 15 2009 22:00:06 by Mke717spotter
Illegal Immigration Vs The Census posted Tue Apr 7 2009 00:07:18 by ANCFlyer
720p Vs. 1080p posted Wed Apr 1 2009 21:43:01 by JetsGo
Obama Vs. Veterans posted Tue Mar 17 2009 21:01:42 by Dreadnought
Las Vegas Hotel : Luxor Vs Tropicana Vs? posted Tue Mar 10 2009 10:14:42 by Airtrainer
Flying Business/first Vs Staying In Decent Hotel posted Wed Mar 4 2009 05:05:31 by Krje1980
Iphone Vs. HTC Touch HD. posted Sun Feb 1 2009 13:26:31 by Cumulus
Properties In LAX VS Properties In SFO posted Mon Jan 26 2009 22:41:23 by United Airline