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Introduction Manners/etiquette  
User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2212 times:

I am slowly but surely trying to both raise my level of civility, mastery of the English language, and pay more attention to the etiquette and manners of life, especially in formal situations.

(As an example, I have completely replaced "Good" with "Well" in response to "How are you doing?")

Anyway, two questions

(1) You're seated; a complete stranger comes up and introduces himself to you. Should you stand?

I think the answer is yes, I didn't do it last night...

(2) I thought that when introductions were being made the more senior/"important" person was supposed to be introduced first, yes, no, sometimes?

Anyway... The reason I ask is last night I was in a primo box seat for an orchestra concert. The gentleman seated behind me (Let's call him "Mr. A") walked up and introduced himself while I was seated. I shook his hand and, introduced myself and said, "Pleased to meet you" but didn't stand -- while simultaneously thinking "Huh, the name sounds familiar" (I'm--actually, my entire father's side of the family is, notoriously bad with remembering proper nouns of all sorts)

At the end of the concert, walking out of the box I ran into (literally) someone where we exchanged mutual recognition from meeting at an event for a different cultural institution about a year ago (let's call him "Mr. B"). "Mr. B" -- Mr. B also knows Mr. A fairly well and reintroduced me to "Mr. A" and "Mrs. A" -- again I thought I recognized the name but couldn't place it.

But when the introduction was made, Mr. B used my name first in both cases, "Lincoln, this is Mr. A", which I thought was off if nothing else based on seniority... and now that Google has reminded me that Mr. A is a major local philanthropist, a respected business leader, and on the board of two of the organizations that make me most proud of Cleveland, I'm kicking myself for missing a golden networking opportunity -- and for not thanking him directly for his generosity.

So in the name of self enlightenment: how many faux pas did I commit?

Lincoln

[Edited 2009-05-24 17:37:49]


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26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCanuckpaxguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2163 times:

It doesn't matter who the individual is, nor what employment they hold.
Courtesy and manners should be extended properly and equally.

Unless you're in the presence of royalty, when you treat people differently because of your perception of their status, it makes you look like an ass.

Genuine courtesy and respect shine through regardless of learned manners. If you appear genuine, nobody will care who's hand you shook first, or if you stood up when you were introduced. If you appear rehearsed or deliberate, your actions will appear phony ... and you will look like an ass.

My advice: Relax and try to be genuine.

Don't kiss someone's ass because you're impressed by their status. It makes you look like a chump. If you're in the presence of someone whom you believe is your superior (by whatever measure you've chosen to be measured by) then act with confidence. If you kiss the person's ass, they'll always see you as beneath them. If you treat them respectfully as an equal, it's more likely they'll grow to respect you.

G


User currently offlineRonglimeng From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 625 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2155 times:

Gee Canuckpaxguy, I like your answer! I don't think I can say anything to improve on it.

I suspect that a lot of people don't attempt introductions because they don't remember the "rules". But as you said, just being geniune should see anybody through.

I was out for a walk with a neighbour/former colleague this morning and we met one of his friends. They chatted for several minutes while I stood there uncomfortably. "Why don't you introduce us???", I thought. I just tried to look agreeable- I guess it was the polite thing to do?
Or should I have introduced myself?


User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2148 times:



Quoting Ronglimeng (Reply 2):
Or should I have introduced myself?

If your friend fails to introduce yourself it is acceptable to introduce yourself. Hello my name is Susan I don't believe I've had the pleasure. It makes you look confident vs. looking ackward just standing like a third wheel.

Quoting Canuckpaxguy (Reply 1):
Relax and try to be genuine.

Best advice.


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2145 times:



Quoting Canuckpaxguy (Reply 1):
It doesn't matter who the individual is, nor what employment they hold.
Courtesy and manners should be extended properly and equally.

Specifically in regard to my question #1, ignoring who "Mr. A" is, should one stand when someone else initiates the introduction?

For me, it seems like the courteous approach is to stand for the introduction (e.g. if they're standing when they introduce themselves, I should stand to shake their hand and introduce myself before sitting back down) -- I was caught off guard, so I didn't stand, but I'm still curious if my instinct is "the right way" or if it doesn't matter.

I wasn't really raised with the social rules that I'm coming to appreciate as a sort of "road map through life", but I am very interested in the social customs. One of the ones I've picked up, from of all things an old NW commercial (and other places, but I think the NW commercial was the first one) was that in Japanese culture, how you treat a person's business card is a reflection of how you treat the person [or something along the lines] -- this really makes sense to me, so any time I'm presented with a business card I make a point of carefully reviewing it and then carefully putting it away rather than the American custom (so it seems) of randomly folding, writing on, forgetting, or just plain casually treating cards.

It's the little things that matter -- I'm trying to learn the little things  Smile



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User currently offlineWESTERN737800 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 693 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2145 times:

I just try to treat everyone the same way regardless of who they are or how much money they have. I'm around people who don't act this way and am not impressed with the way they treat people. Since I've started treating people equally I feel better about myself and the way I'm perceived by other people.


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User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10024 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2117 times:
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Quoting Canuckpaxguy (Reply 1):

That was beautifully and concisely said. Bravo.

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 4):
Specifically in regard to my question #1, ignoring who "Mr. A" is, should one stand when someone else initiates the introduction?

My personal opinion:

It depends on the situation. If I'm among my friends, BBQ'ing in someone's backyard, then no, I'm probably not going to stand (with certain exceptions, like if I'm meeting someone's parents or something, I'll probably stand).

If I had to err one way or the other, I'd stand whenever introduced to someone.

But to be honest, if me not standing when I'm introduced to you offends you (not talking to you Lincoln, just in general), then maybe we'd be better off not meeting.

I like to think I'm pretty courteous and thoughtful, but I don't do it to impress anyone. I do it because I feel like I should. I'd feel like an ass (and in my opinion, I would be one) if I didn't.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19699 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2042 times:

In my experience, you should assume that everyone who you meet is of great importance and deserving of your respect. There are multiple parables in multiple mythologies to illustrate this point, but I have one from personal experience where I learned that a woman who I thought was a young nurse actually turned out to be a professor of medicine. Good thing I treat everyone with respect!

Quoting Lincoln (Thread starter):


(1) You're seated; a complete stranger comes up and introduces himself to you. Should you stand?

Absolutely. I mean, if standing is very inconvenient for some obvious reason, then nobody would expect you to stand. But you should stand if possible.

Quoting Lincoln (Thread starter):
At the end of the concert, walking out of the box I ran into (literally) someone where we exchanged mutual recognition from meeting at an event for a different cultural institution about a year ago (let's call him "Mr. B"). "Mr. B" -- Mr. B also knows Mr. A fairly well and reintroduced me to "Mr. A" and "Mrs. A" -- again I thought I recognized the name but couldn't place it.

I don't think it really matters. The introduction is what matters. There may be some obscure formal rule that you can find in Emily Post, but I doubt many people know it or care about it.

Quoting Lincoln (Thread starter):
and now that Google has reminded me that Mr. A is a major local philanthropist, a respected business leader, and on the board of two of the organizations that make me most proud of Cleveland, I'm kicking myself for missing a golden networking opportunity -- and for not thanking him directly for his generosity.

So you fix it. And you have a platinum opportunity now. You figure out how to send him a note and you tell him in writing that it was a pleasure to meet him the other night and thank him in writing for his generosity. And now he has your name in writing, so he won't forget it so easily.

Neat trick, huh?


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2031 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
You figure out how to send him a note and you tell him in writing that it was a pleasure to meet him the other night and thank him in writing for his generosity. And now he has your name in writing, so he won't forget it so easily.

It's funny you should mention that -- that's exactly what I've done, signed, sealed, and going in the mail tomorrow morning.

The only two things I'm not certain about are

(a) After reminding him how we met and directly thanking him for his generosity and service I close with "In the future I hope to be able match your level of generosity and support to these fine institutions. In the interim, thank you again for you dedication to this region’s cultural institutions. If I may ever be of any assistance in your efforts to support the arts and culture in the region, please do not hesitate to contact me via electronic mail at [my email address], or via postal mail at the address shown below."

It's sincere, but is it too over the top?

(b) I've addressed the letter to him at the corporate office for the local firm that he's the President/CEO of... would it be better to direct it to one of the institutions that he serves?



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User currently offlineCanuckpaxguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2016 times:

Wow. Thanks for the great feedback everyone! I'm afraid I am about to be slightly less concise though....


Hi Lincoln.
Let me apologize to you in advance. When people ask me for my opinion, they get it. (And some never ask for it again!)  Wink

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 8):
"In the future I hope to be able match your level of generosity and support to these fine institutions. In the interim, thank you again for you dedication to this region’s cultural institutions. If I may ever be of any assistance in your efforts to support the arts and culture in the region, please do not hesitate to contact me via electronic mail at [my email address], or via postal mail at the address shown below."

You really need to have a close read before you send it. I find it very difficult to edit my own work so I get others to read for me:

"In the future, I hope to be able *TO* match your level of generosity.., "
"...thank you again for *YOUR* dedication to ..."

"If I may ever be of any assistance in your efforts to support the arts and culture...."
That's a lot of words ... but you're not actually saying anything. It's overly formal and it's just filler. I would delete it.

"contact me via electronic mail at [my email address], or via postal mail at the address shown below." It's a little over the top and far too uptight.

If this guy is so successful, it's not because he mastered grammar and etiquette. He respects people who get to the point. You're not sending him a note to thank him --- you're trying to network and get on his radar. Your approach appears almost sneaky and indirect. You're trying to praise him, but saying "if I can assist you, contact me" makes you sound as if you could teach him something....and you can't. Why EXACTLY are you contacting this man? (He will want to know, or else his secretary will pitch your card in the bin before he ever sees it!)

As I said to you earlier, RELAX and be GENUINE.
Neither of those traits is coming through in your message.

I'm struggling to understand your relation to the fellow --- You thank him in one breath and then offer to assist him in another. What are you thanking him for? Going to a concert? His past philanthropic endeavours? On whose behalf are you thanking him? Are you the mayor of the region? Are you personally responsible for overseeing all the artistic and cultural events in Cleveland? If not, your message sounds incredibly pretentious and even pompous.

Lincoln, you're trying WAY TOO HARD. You're trying to portray an unnatural image of yourself ahead of substance and that's a HUGE mistake.

If I may offer some more advice:
- Say more with fewer words.
- Being so formal makes EVERYONE uncomfortable.
- Misusing big words or fancy grammar makes you look like a con-artist.
- When it comes to high-etiquette and overly formal situations, the people who appear to be trying too hard are the ones that stand out as the people who don't belong. (It's so arrogant of me to say, but that's how it is!)
- Mr A is presumably a busy man --- get to the point.

"Dear Mr. A.,
It was an honour to meet you at the concert last night. I've always respected your involvement in the arts and would like to get more involved myself. I would very much appreciate the opportunity to gain your insight about how I might become more involved.

Many thanks in advance,


~sign
~phone
~email "

Do NOT label your email as "Email:" lincoln@.... or "Phone: " 416... the man's not an idiot. He can recognize a phone number or an email address.

The card should be handwritten. (I know, I know --- but if you want to be proper.....)

Here's a old trick too --- I think it's lame, but others swear by it. When writing formal correspondence, address the card to "Mr. Abcde", then cross it out and hand-write "Jim" or "Bob" beside it. It gives the appearance of warmth and attention.

Sorry Lincoln --- you asked for an opinion. There it is.
You're off to a fine start. I think it's admirable that you are putting forth the effort to be courteous, but I really encourage you to let your personality come through.

Good luck!

- George


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2004 times:



Quoting Canuckpaxguy (Reply 9):
The card should be handwritten. (I know, I know --- but if you want to be proper.....)

Thanks for the advice, I'll take most of of it, chuck some of it, and ponder on the rest.

You've ovbiously never seen my handwriting -- I have trouble reading it at times.

I know the whole appearance of being "personal"/"time"/"attention" thing, but having similarly suffered through other people's abysmal handwriting, I'd much perfer to get something typed than spend hours figuring out what "i- uas a paesreu mett hoy" is really suposed to say.

Quoting Canuckpaxguy (Reply 9):
Here's a old trick too --- I think it's lame, but others swear by it. When writing formal correspondence, address the card to "Mr. Abcde", then cross it out and hand-write "Jim" or "Bob" beside it. It gives the appearance of warmth and attention.

Uhh... I'm in the "lame" camp with that one; I feel awkward enough addressing it as "Dear Mr. Abcde:" (which is what I have done) because I feel like "dear" impliles a level of familiarity that doesn't exist -- I definately don't feel it would be proper to use someone I've casually meat's first name without their express invitation... although, since I am pondering it:

The gentleman introduced himself with a shortended version of his name (say "Bob" instead of "Robert", not the actual name) -- part of the reason I didn't recognize the name at first was _everything_ (from plaques, to signs above doors, to names in programs, etc.) lists his name as "Robert Y. Wxyzabc, Jr" -- would I use the long or short version of the name?

For that matter in the address, should I use the name that he introduced himself with or...?

Yeah, now I'm starting to overthink things.



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User currently offlineCanuckpaxguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1999 times:

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 10):
Yeah, now I'm starting to overthink things.

Yes you are! But it's okay. Relax!

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 10):
For that matter in the address, should I use the name that he introduced himself with or...?

It's a judgement call. If he was casual enough to use his shortened first name, go with it. Use the "lame" trick. I mentioned it above because so many people swear by it, so who am I to judge?

One more thing -- write it tonight, then read it carefully tomorrow morning. Allow time to pass. You're thinking about this a lot and your mind needs to be clear and free of context to proof-read. I suggest proofing for spelling (as I mentioned above) and for tone.

Here's an example:
You said, "Thanks for the advice, I'll take most of of it, chuck some of it, and ponder on the rest. ".

If I were an overly sensitive man, I'd be hugely offended by that comment. You ASKED for advice. I gave it. You asked for follow-up advice, and I gave it again. I've spent about 20 - 30 minutes of MY OWN FREE TIME helping YOU.

.... and you're gonna "take some of it" and "chuck some of it"?

I'm sure that's not what you meant, (otherwise my next piece of advice would be three simple words suggesting how you might spend the rest of your evening ), but my point is to read your comments CAREFULLY, without context and put yourself in the reader's shoes.


You're welcome.
G

[Edited 2009-05-25 18:48:56]

User currently offlineComorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1993 times:

Lincoln,

As an old git I'd like to add to this thread:

1. You're American. So the advice you are seeking has to play in Cleveland, Ohio. Now, Americans are extremely well-mannered. I was once mugged in Amsterdam, and boy, the guys were definitely not cool.

2. American manners are based on Cool. Americans define what is Cool. Midwesterners are the politest of Americans. I know because I've been everywhere. So you're off to a good start.

3. Good Manners and Politeness are based on a genuine concern for the other person. Unfortunately, it can also become a game of upmanship. People can be condescending with their manners - i.e. I am better bred than you, you miserable unwashed person...

4. Now about your post:

"I'm good , how are you?" is good enough. The formal answer is "Very well thank you, and how are you?". Establishing empathy is important: A casual question deserves a casual answer.

Men should always stand up but I find that an attempt to stand suffices and prevents the awkward intrusion of formality. Unless you are in the Armed Forces. Men ALWAYS stand but women also stand when introduced in the business world today.

A firm handshake is also very important - shows interest as well as confidence.

Also remember any meeting with a man is a ritual based on an ages-old protocol ( I'm talking about Primates). Do not attempt to take control by either pulling in the other person or turning the hand so that you have the upper hand. This is where a firm handshake iwill do and gain respect from the other person.

As for introductions, women are always introduced first (in the US), regardless of age. If you are with multiple couples, I would introduce the senior woman, then her husband, and so on.

Lincoln, the best way to do this is to observe people you admire and note the choices they make. The secret of good manners is making the other person feel special without being condescending. If you are with a bunch of folks who like to eat their peas off a knife, good manners dictate that you do the same. If they eat with their mouths open, however, it's time to leave.


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1989 times:



Quoting Canuckpaxguy (Reply 11):
I'm sure that's not what you meant,

Fair enough... For the record, I stripped 4/5ths of the content from "Version 1" and replaced it with more-or-less the verbatim suggestion you made (since it does a much better job of implying what I was explicitly stating in a much more compact space)

In the interest in blaming others for ones own problems, I think my problem with being concise comes from my education (both K-12 and University) where teachers/professors insisted on minimum word/page counts. For worse or worse, I became a master of inflating what was at times a thoroughly researched but pitiful quantity of useful information with enough fluff to satisfy the powers that be.

Like cursive, it's a skill that has little real world application. I can count on one finger the number of times I've had a work-related need for a "minimum" of X-- maximum, frequently, minimum-- once.


Thank you (again)

Lincoln



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User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19699 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1991 times:

You're a good man, Linc. But (like me) you need to calm down.

First of all, I need to know why you're doing this. Is this related to your work?

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 8):
(a) After reminding him how we met and directly thanking him for his generosity and service I close with "In the future I hope to be able match your level of generosity and support to these fine institutions. In the interim, thank you again for you dedication to this region’s cultural institutions. If I may ever be of any assistance in your efforts to support the arts and culture in the region, please do not hesitate to contact me via electronic mail at [my email address], or via postal mail at the address shown below."

I need an answer to my question above before I can answer your question above.

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 8):

(b) I've addressed the letter to him at the corporate office for the local firm that he's the President/CEO of... would it be better to direct it to one of the institutions that he serves?

Nope, you did the right thing. Corporate office.


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1981 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
Is this related to your work?

Nope.

It is possible that a different group within my company has done work for the family, but other than that it's purely a personal thing. I'm not looking for his business, in fact, my segment of the business doesn't have anything I could offer, even if I wanted to.

I love the arts & culture in Cleveland, especially University Circle -- he's on the board of and a large donor to the three major institutions in University Circle and I regret not thanking him directly for his support in both financial and time-spent-for-the-cause terms [allowing me to enjoy one of the world's top orchestras*, and one of America's premiere art musuems litterally minutes from my doorstep and at prices that aren't at all unreasonable (it was less than $150, including parking--for a box).

I'd be lying, though, if I didn't say that I'd be thrilled with any opportunity to form a relationship with similarly-minded individuals, especially if they can aid in my understanding of the music, introduce me to new/different forms of creative expression, open doors, or just plain introduce me to new people, especially those who have done well for themselves in their endevors and may be willing to share insight.

Or in other words: Pretty much the only people I know in Cleveland are my coworkers. I relish any opportunity to expand my social network.

* If I hear the phrase "Technical mastery" inside the concert hall at next weeks performance, I may have to hurt someone. In the two concerts I attended this weekend (Saturday evening and Sunday afternoon) I think I heard those two words used together at least a dozen times.



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User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19699 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1974 times:



Quoting Lincoln (Reply 15):

It is possible that a different group within my company has done work for the family, but other than that it's purely a personal thing. I'm not looking for his business, in fact, my segment of the business doesn't have anything I could offer, even if I wanted to.

OK, then tear up the letter and start again. I thought this was work, which is why I was suggesting such a formal approach.

A simple "It was a pleasure to meet a patron of the arts like you last night. As a young opera fan, I want you to know that I fully appreciate your contributions to the arts so that people like me can enjoy them. I look forward to meeting you again at another performance." That's sufficient. It'll make him feel good about what he's done. It might make him remember your face and or your name when you next meet. And that's ALL you can hope for at this point.

From similar behavior, I have had the most stunning things happen to me. Including being invited to cocktail parties with some very influential people.

Your letter seems like you're trying to make a business offer...but you have nothing to offer. So don't offer it. And as for your contact info, just leave your address in the header, maybe a phone number. Don't suggest he contact you. What's he gonna contact you about?

One thing I've learned in my life is that chance and happenstance will work in your favor a lot of the time. He's not the last big-shot patron of the arts you'll meet. So don't go chasing after him too hard; you are nothing but a passing acquaintance to him. But you would be amazed at what can come out of it if you wait for it to come to you.


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1962 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
One thing I've learned in my life is that chance and happenstance will work in your favor a lot of the time.

Copy the much simpler approach, as had been also suggested by Canuk.

Yeah, this is something I need to keep reminding myself of.

All of the truly awesome expericences in my life have been completely based on chance/happenstance. For example, all three of the jobs that I've held (and loved) have been the result of networking growing from happenstance. One of my most awesome vacations ever was the afternoon I spent (litterally) wandering around Manhattan with no plans, no map, no nothing. All of the truly great people I've met have also been by chance... and in many cases it wasn't until the meeting had ended that I realized exactly who I had just met.

On the other hand, when I actually _try_ things seem to rarely if ever work out the way I'd like them to. I think this may be because I get so focused on the "plan" that other opportunities slip by without even noticing.

[--warning, from here on down is kind of a personal ephiphany--]

[Eureka moment] I think this is probably a large part of why I'm still single, too... can get so focused on the "finding a relationship" part of things the just relaxing and having fun doesn't happen.

Actually... Two years ago I was in MCO for a trade show and eating with coworkers basically stared down an incredibly attractive woman in the restaurant. I think we literally locked eyes for a good 10 minutes or so, which considering she was line dancing wasn't the easiest thing in the world... Since I was just in town for the next day or two, I really didn't give a damn if she thought I was the creepy guy at table #7 or not. She asked me to dance, I kind of freaked out. It's something I regret not doing.

I'm not overly religious, but at times I'm kind of like, "God, I know you have a plan...I'm not sure what it is, but I know it's there... mind sharing a bit?" -- and at others there's the thought of some higher being going "Lincoln, you idiot, I opened the door for you and you didn't even notice."

So, anyway, deep breath, live life, send card, move on.  

Lincoln

“Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything.” - Plato

[Edited 2009-05-25 20:32:32]


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User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1959 times:



Quoting Lincoln (Reply 8):
It's sincere, but is it too over the top?

Very much so.

Doc's letter in his most recent post is more of what you should be aiming for the other one comes across a bit oddball, aggressive and stilted. My family is very involved in philanthropic endeavors. I have to say my grandparents would be put off by your original letter. Especially my grandfather. He would have said what does this uptight idiot want from me. Not to be harsh but that is how it would be received. People who succeed in business have great BS detectors. They know a suck up when they see one. I am not sure why people let money and power make them so uncomfortable the truth of the matter is wealthy folks aren't any different from the normal folks be your best self like you would with anyone else. Doc's letter on the other hand would probably lead to invites to future events.

Oh and if you were introduced to his wife/partner as well. Do not neglect that person in your note. Wives are often the gatekeepers to social events and it would look rude if you ignored her and only payed homage to the "powerful" guy.


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1949 times:



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 18):
Oh and if you were introduced to his wife/partner as well. Do not neglect that person in your note. Wives are often the gatekeepers to social events and it would look rude if you ignored her and only payed homage to the "powerful" guy.

At the risk of biting off more advice than I can chew... is the "lovely" adjective inappropriate (I had planned on "It was an honor to meet you and your lovely wife at Saturday evening's performance...).

My thinking is that "wife" on its own is a tad naked and impersonal -- and she really was quite nice during the 2nd introduction/conversation -- but I'm not sure if I'm crossing some imaginary line when referiing to a stranger's spouse.

Lincoln



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User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19699 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1941 times:



Quoting Lincoln (Reply 19):

At the risk of biting off more advice than I can chew... is the "lovely" adjective inappropriate (I had planned on "It was an honor to meet you and your lovely wife at Saturday evening's performance...).

It is inappropriate. She's his wife. Let him choose his own adjectives.  Wink


User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1921 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20):
It is inappropriate. She's his wife. Let him choose his own adjectives.

Agreed

Don't tag her on as an afterthought that is pretty offensive and again if you do that you are making it clear who is the "important person" to you
If you were introduced to both of them address the note to both of them.

Dear Mr. and Mrs.
It is always a pleasure to meet fellow opera enthusiasts. Thank you for your ....blah blah see what Doc wrote.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19699 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1875 times:



Quoting Lincoln (Reply 17):

Actually... Two years ago I was in MCO for a trade show and eating with coworkers basically stared down an incredibly attractive woman in the restaurant. I think we literally locked eyes for a good 10 minutes or so, which considering she was line dancing wasn't the easiest thing in the world... Since I was just in town for the next day or two, I really didn't give a damn if she thought I was the creepy guy at table #7 or not. She asked me to dance, I kind of freaked out. It's something I regret not doing.

Next time that happens, jot your name and number on a napkin or something handy (paper coffee cup, etc.) and then, as you walk out, drop it on her table.

Ball's in her court.  Smile


User currently offlineType-Rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 5033 posts, RR: 19
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1777 times:

Once upon a time I was invited as a guest to an Exxon Employee Christmas party. The president of that division was there as well. I had a wonderful time watching all the middle managers running across the room dragging their wives behind them so fast that the poor women were almost flying through the air behind them. They were all jockeying for the possibility of introducing their wives to the president. They all looked like a bunch of a**holes.
I asked my host why they were doing that and his response is that you can never have enough visibility in a company like that. The president did have a funny look on his face while this was going on.

I always handle the introduction of people by starting with the oldest person to the next youngest person. This is what my parents taught me.

As for manners, I can't tell you the number of times I have heard a guy just "grunt" upon introduction rather than say "Nice to meet you". And at lest act interested when you are being introduced. Don't just sit there and act like your mind is 1,000 miles away.

Now of course the kind of people who go to the opera most likely will not engage in the type of behavior that I've just described.



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1666 times:



Quoting Lincoln (Thread starter):
(2) I thought that when introductions were being made the more senior/"important" person was supposed to be introduced first, yes, no, sometimes?

I've been taught by a protocol instructor and read in ettiquite books that this is correct. You would say "Mr. Governor, I'd like you to meet Ms. District Attorney," not "Ms. District Attorney, I'd like you to meet Mr. Governor."


25 Post contains links IAirAllie : That is correct in a business setting in a social setting it is a bit different. "Social etiquette is based on chivalry, so both formal and informal
26 IAirAllie : You know Lincoln an etiquette class might be something you'd be interested in. They are actually quite fun and interesting, useful for business advanc
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