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Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan  
User currently offlineDw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1254 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 13391 times:

It seems like its getting popular to ask for car advice on here these days, and since I'm looking for a new ride I figured I'd get some opinions here.

I'm looking for a significant step up from my Accord, without breaking the bank. I'm not opposed to getting something a few years old if it has low mileage and is in good condition. I also don't want to pay through the roof for parts. I'm willing to take a hit on gas mileage compared to the Accord (29mpg for mine) but not a big one.

A couple of the options I'm looking at:

2009 Pontiac G8 (GT?)

Like the styling (though I want leather, which means I'd be stuck with a black interior)., fun to drive, impressive performance, especially for the GT (GXP is too thirsty for me).

On the downside, GM is going through some tough times, and with Pontiac going away in the near future support/resale value are on my mind. After all, there will not be many G8s on the road when the line shuts down, and importing parts from Australia for a small number of cars could keep prices high. And resale... I just don't know. In addition, gas mileage is on the low end of what I find acceptable, and some reviews I've read suggest the government tests are optimistic.


2005 to 2007 Audi A6
Stylish and upscale, I haven't had the chance to drive an A6 yet. Most reviews seem to give it high marks. It also has all wheel drive with impressive gas mileage, and apparently can take premium or regular gas without a problem (a big plus when prices go up).

The interior is luxurious, but seems to be a bit on the small side compared to the G8 and other bigger sedans. MSN Autos shows less interior space than my Accord, which could be an issue.

2005-2008 Cadillac STS
Combines the style of the sporty CTS with the size and luxury of the bigger DTS. Quite a nice car, but I have heard some people complain about reliability.

BMW 5 and 7 Series
Don't know a whole lot about them, but both have been mentioned. Premium only and high maintenance costs seem like two big negatives. The 5 would probably be in the same year range as the other used cars, I might need to go older to afford a 7, which could also add to maintenance costs.

I'm still open to other ideas, but I want to whittle down the list before too long. I want something with a more modern and sporty look, but not over the top. Thoughts? Experiences?


CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
134 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15484 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 13384 times:

If fuel economy is a large consideration, you should look for a used E-Class diesel (mid 30s - mid 40s on Ebay) or a new BMW 335d ($40-45k). Also a new Lexus IS or Infiniti G37 would warrant consideration, particularly if you might want a convertible.


Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineDw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1254 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 13377 times:

I'm probably capped at around $30k, hence why I was looking at several used vehicles. Ideally I'd like to spend a bit less than that, but I want to keep options open.

The E-class does sound interesting, though it may be tough to find a good one for the right price. Any idea about long-term costs? I've heard Mercedes is incredibly expensive to maintain, and not the most reliable in the first place.



CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15484 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 13378 times:



Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 2):
I've heard Mercedes is incredibly expensive to maintain, and not the most reliable in the first place.

I can't really say having never owned one. You'll probably be pretty safe if you get one from a dealer and it has a new warranty. That would go for any used car really, not just M-B. $30k should buy you a pretty nice used G35/37 or BMW 3 series. (if you get past the looks)

Cars in this range are a bit strange because the prices are often quite reasonable, but if you check a few boxes your $30k car just became $50k. So in your search you should remain aware that not all of the same model are created equal.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8205 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13375 times:

The one thing that stuck out is, if you are worried about gas prices, maybe you should spend less on a car and/or top up your IRA, or buy stocks or something (great time for that)...

The Audi A6 is very roomy and is a great car. Don't always believe the specs. The back seat is great. And, the purchase price should be reasonable. I would go with that. We had a 2000 2.7T model that was very solid.

Another smart buy might be a used Volvo S80. A luxurious car that goes under the radar so to speak.

http://www.volvocars.com/us/models/s80/Pages/default.aspx


User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13373 times:

How about a loaded and good looking Buick Lacrosse for under $30K USD??

Big version: Width: 450 Height: 350 File size: 29kb
2010 Buick Lacrosse Sedan



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7524 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13364 times:

May I suggest a 2008 Mercedes Benz C-Class?


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineCheetahC From South Africa, joined Apr 2009, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 13341 times:

Parts for German luxury cars can be expensive, recently paid around R12 000 (roughly $1 500) for an alternator on a 4 year old C-class.

User currently offlineDw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1254 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 13324 times:



Quoting CheetahC (Reply 7):
R12 000 (roughly $1 500) for an alternator on a 4 year old C-class.

That's the kind of information I need to see, though my math shows R12000 is around 260 USD?



CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 13317 times:



Quoting Dw747400 (Thread starter):

Considering most of America is in bed sleeping at the moment, all you'll see is post by people in Europe plugging their favorite brands.

Quoting Dw747400 (Thread starter):
2009 Pontiac G8 (GT?)

Like the styling (though I want leather, which means I'd be stuck with a black interior)., fun to drive, impressive performance, especially for the GT (GXP is too thirsty for me).

On the downside, GM is going through some tough times, and with Pontiac going away in the near future support/resale value are on my mind. After all, there will not be many G8s on the road when the line shuts down, and importing parts from Australia for a small number of cars could keep prices high. And resale... I just don't know. In addition, gas mileage is on the low end of what I find acceptable, and some reviews I've read suggest the government tests are optimistic.

Anything against black leather?
If you are concerned about reliablity and parts, don't even think about looking at a German car. The repairs will certainly break the bank.





Quoting Dw747400 (Thread starter):
2005-2008 Cadillac STS
Combines the style of the sporty CTS with the size and luxury of the bigger DTS. Quite a nice car, but I have heard some people complain about reliability.

Hmmm...the report cards say they are pretty reliable.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...s-trucks/Cadillac_DTS/Reliability/

Quoting Dw747400 (Thread starter):
I'm still open to other ideas, but I want to whittle down the list before too long. I want something with a more modern and sporty look, but not over the top. Thoughts? Experiences?



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 5):
How about a loaded and good looking Buick Lacrosse for under $30K USD??

 checkmark 
The Lacrosse as well as the Lucerne uses the trusted and very reliable 3.8 V6 and or optional 4.6 Northstar system which has been around and proven reliability.

Others you might want to consider is the Chrysler 300C and Mercury Grand Marquis.
The 300C is certainly sporty but the Grand Marquis frame & powertrain has been around for a very long time now and proven to be very reliable and the parts are a dime a dozen.
If you are willing to go back to the 2003-2004 model years, you can pick up a sporty Marauder.  Cool







http://l.yimg.com/dv/izp/mercury_grand_marquis_gs_2008_dashboard_dashboard.jpg


http://allworldcars.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/2008-chrysler-300c-1.jpg



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineDw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1254 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 13310 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
The 300C is certainly sporty but the Grand Marquis frame & powertrain has been around for a very long time now and proven to be very reliable and the parts are a dime a dozen.

Though I appreciate the proven reliability of the Buicks, Grand Marquis, and others, I'm looking for something with a bit more aggressive styling. Hence I mentioned the STS as opposed to the DTS.

I'm not against big American sedans... I just want it to look the way I want!



CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 13309 times:



Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 10):
Though I appreciate the proven reliability of the Buicks, Grand Marquis, and others, I'm looking for something with a bit more aggressive styling. Hence I mentioned the STS as opposed to the DTS.

So how about the Chrysler 300C and Dodge Charger?



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13277 times:

The Caddy engines are actually pretty good. We bought a "program' DeVille with about 23K on the clock and got almost $1 off list per mile. Bought it after renting one to drive 11 hours to see the daughter & family. I did, however, get the extended warranty.

There is some serious money saved for letting someone else drive the first 20 or 30K, especially if you get an extended factory warranty. With a 100K drive train warranty fairly standard on US & Korean cars that extended warranty is cheaper. Just make sure you get the manufacturers extended warranty - a 3rd party company went out of business on a Pontiac my Dad bought.

Right now, though, I would wait to see how things go after GM files for Ch 11 - and I believe that they will file before Monday as they have to pay $1 Billion in interest payments on Monday. After the filing I would see the "New GM!" putting out some very good deals and the STS should have some great discounts. Keep an eye on Edmunds.com for rebates going to the customer or dealers.

There is also a "cash for clunkers" program that may well be available in a month or two. Last I read it was going to be a tax CREDIT of $3,500 to trade in a clunker on a new car that got at least 20 mpg and $4,500 on a car that got at least 30 mpg. That sort of woke me up.

Also look at repair costs. I had a '68 BMW 2002 and it was the most expensive car I ever owned in terms of repairs.


User currently offlineAerobalance From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 4674 posts, RR: 48
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 13269 times:

Get the A6 - it's better than a Hippo


Tough to say, you listed a diverse range of vehicles and of those choices it would be the A6 for me. You did mention mid-range to upscale sedan.

Good luck!



"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7524 posts, RR: 43
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 13242 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
If you are concerned about reliablity and parts, don't even think about looking at a German car. The repairs will certainly break the bank.

The notion that German cars are less reliable than American cars is, to me, new and absolutely laughable. Anyway, I have had my 2008 Mercedes Benz C-280 Classic for 23 months or so and I have not experienced any problem so far. The first scheduled visit to the shop last year was not expensive as I thought it would be and took less than 2.5 hours. I recall my Dad sending his 1990 Buick Century Limited and my Mom sending her 1997 Chevrolet Malibu to service and the GM dealer taking days to change the oil and filter, rotate the tires and check the computer... and on top of it, it was not cheap.

If our friend David would rather get a mid-range to upscale American car, may I suggest waiting for the new Taurus SHO???



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineDrunkmuppet From Congo (Kinshasa), joined Nov 2007, 20 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13222 times:

How about a Nissan Maxima? I just bought a 2009 S with Leather and a few options for about 25K with 6K miles on it. It's fast, big, and comfortable as anything I have ever driven. I was going to buy a 535i but as I am in sales and drive 25K miles a year. The maintainence on a BMW was outrageous and cost to insure was also high.

User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13213 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 14):
I have had my 2008 Mercedes Benz C-280 Classic for 23 months or so and I have not experienced any problem so far.

Now that's laughable!
Not even a French car would give problems within the first 23 months. That isn't really a good example. Not to mention, those German car parts are very expensive to replace when the thing starts falling apart.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 14):
I recall my Dad sending his 1990 Buick Century Limited and my Mom sending her 1997 Chevrolet Malibu to service and the GM dealer taking days to change the oil and filter, rotate the tires and check the computer... and on top of it, it was not cheap.

Maybe things are different down in Mexico.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8205 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13205 times:

To me the question is, would you rather have a 1993 Buick or Cadillac, or a 1993 Audi, BMW or Mercedes.

I would much rather have the German cars. Even if the new cars look competitive, 10 or 12 years on, the Europeans will be doing well. The Japanese a little less well (rusting, often). And the Americans, don't ask!


User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13207 times:



Quoting Dw747400 (Thread starter):
2005 to 2007 Audi A6

Definitely give one a test drive, I'm sure you can find a well equipped one within your price range thats used. It is a superb car and a very good looking one at that. Personally I'd go with an S5, but you did say you want a sedan...

The A6 is a very handsome car and superbly built. And that's the current version. I can't wait for the new version to come out  drool  :

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/upload/8998/images/AudiA6-2010-scoop.jpg

Quoting Dw747400 (Thread starter):
2009 Pontiac G8 (GT?)

If you love recycled plastics and boat-like handling then sure.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
don't even think about looking at a German car.

Hogwash. I'm sorry Superfly but none of the cars you mentioned, not even the best ones, come close to having the same level of engineering, refinement, quality build and above all driving prowess when compared to even the most basic or entry level versions of the current German cars. All the German cars I and my family have owned have been true examples of reliability and have given us much less problems than American or Japanese cars.

I hate to sound anti-patriotic but America just can't build cars. There's a reason the american auto industry is in the crapper, and it's certainly not because they build good cars.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13197 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 17):
To me the question is, would you rather have a 1993 Buick or Cadillac, or a 1993 Audi, BMW or Mercedes.

1993?
Definatly the Fleetwood Brougham.  Cool
Many if those still running with very little maintenance. My Grandmother still drives her 1993 Buick Roadmaster till this day with very little maintenance and no rust. For a car 16 year old car in Chicago with no rust, I'd say GM has done a fine job.
I can only imagine how expensive repairs are for the Audi, BMW in Mercedes of the same year.
Dx747400 would need to get a 2nd. job just to keep his 'sophisticated' German car running.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13197 times:

Oh by the way, have you looked at the Passat CC? Another great car.



Unlikely you'll find too many used ones, but even new they are at a great price and have tons of features and its a lot of car for your money.


User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13193 times:



Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 10):
Though I appreciate the proven reliability of the Buicks, Grand Marquis, and others, I'm looking for something with a bit more aggressive styling.

While I will disagree with my friend on the Marquis (I wouldn't want to drive a police cruiser/taxi cab look alike even if it is Fly's all important RWD), the Buick Lacrosse (the Lucerne is a cut-rate version of the ancient Caddy DTS) is not my taste either. I've seen the new Lacrosse at the auto shows and it's gorgeous - it is based on the European Opel Insignia - and it's worthy of at least a look if not a test drive.

Big version: Width: 500 Height: 333 File size: 124kb
2010 Buick Lacrosse rear quarter view


Also, the new RWD V-8 powered Hyundai Genesis sedan is a huge bargain for the money - Lexus LS in size and demeanor for about $35K USD, although Hyundai dealer service and typically steep depreciation isn't all that great.



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7482 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13188 times:



Quoting Dw747400 (Thread starter):
I'm not opposed to getting something a few years old if it has low mileage and is in good condition.

One thing to keep in mind is that there have been recently many occasions where new dealers car dealers will charge almost as much on a one-to-three-year-old model as for a similar new model. My older brother, who resides in Massachusetts, could not believe what some dealers were charging for used vehicles.

So it pays (no pun intended) to compare prices of new models against some used ones in the lot.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineCharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1322 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13174 times:



Quoting Dw747400 (Thread starter):
I want something with a more modern and sporty look, but not over the top. Thoughts? Experiences?

Let's see you got the Pontiac G8 GT, Cadillac STS, Audi A6, and BMW 5 and 7 Series. It's quite a diverse group there, nearly all targeting slightly different customers. From this list, though, I'd pick the A6. Audi interiors are second to none, they represent great value as a previously enjoyed vehicle, offers AWD if needed, and you can choose between 6 and 8 cylinder engines. The VW/Audi build quality is exquisite, the driving dynamics offer a great balance between comfort and sport, interior room is generous, and the maintenance is not as bad as folks here will have you believe (I'm onto my second VW and they are substantially cheaper to operate than the Ford I just replaced).

Right now I'd stay clear from the GM metal but if you must then stick with the Cadillac as the Pontiac is already on its death bed. Make sure you shop for one already well depreciated cause their resale values won't improve with GM filing Ch. 11. As for the BMWs, the 7 is abviously more technically complex and thus more prone for little annoying things going wrong.

Ultimately it will come down to test driving them. I thought I liked the new Cadillac CTS until I drove one. It felt really small inside for such a large car, it drove too much like a boat, and the cabin felt like it belonged in a top-spec Kia. Same for the Chrysler 300, a sad disappointment as I expected more from the car (it's ok as long as you never take corners). I did enjoy driving a 2006 Pontiac GTO (the G8 with 2 fewer doors) so I can imagine the G8 should be a driver as well but, again, with Pontiac dying and GM going bankrupt, I wouldn't want to risk it.

My $0.02, happy shopping!


User currently offlineAerobalance From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 4674 posts, RR: 48
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13166 times:

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 18):
America just can't build cars

America can build cars, it's just the management of the U.S. auto-makers believe in catering to a certain demographic of cars that are built as appliances, giving not the best in driving refinement but in utilitarian needs for a lower price than the imports. If the engineers were allowed to design a car within monetary reason and pick sub-systems from their suppliers that were more reliable they could produce vehicles that people want. It's up to management and the stockholders to allow that to happen.

I own two Japanese vehicles as daily drivers and a German car as a toy, years of watching the US auto industry has made me just shake my head in disgust.

[Edited 2009-05-28 13:51:51]


"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
25 Superfly : That has nothing to do with their products already available. GM will continue to support Pontiac products years down the road as everything in the P
26 EddieDude : Sure, but the resale value? I absolutely concur. I don't see myself buying an American car ever, unless Ford brought European models such as the Mond
27 Ken777 : The challenge with extensive engineering is that you have to both pay for it and maintain it. Total costs do matter for a lot of people - especially
28 Aerobalance : Interesting how you value engineering, as an engineer myself I value the end result of engineering a product as having enough refinement built in so
29 Swissy : It worked for me , have now a new MB GLK.... had a 02 Audi Allroad before. I prefer to buy if used from a certified dealer.... why? usually have the
30 Tylerdurden : Good choice. Better choice! That car is horrific looking...like a Chinese knockoff of itself. Actually my first thought...one of my law clerks got a
31 Ken777 : I value engineering because of what it has achieved, just like I value medicine. I also value the KISS principle when it comes to design and engineer
32 Superfly : Some cars, resale value remained high once it went out of production. The 1994-1996 Chevrolet Impala SS and 2003-2004 Mercury Marauder maintained hig
33 TylerDurden : An observation is not a prejudice. Drive through any crappy neighborhood in Socal or Texas and they are littered with 300C's with 22" wheels and cust
34 Superfly : Well I guess you couldn't come up with any technical flaws with the vehicle, so I guess knock those you see driving them. Totally besides the point.
35 BMI727 : What both of you say have merit. After all, isn't the image of a car and how it portrays a driver at least a little bit of a factor worth considering
36 Superfly : Here in San Francisco, the Charger is NOT a ghetto car. Then again, they've all been priced out of SFO. From what I gather, Dw747400 doesn't care muc
37 Dw747400 : I'm making a table comparing the financial aspect of each car. Though the car itself matters the most, and I'm not pinching pennies, cost of ownership
38 BMI727 : Not here either. To be ghetto here it means you drive an early 90s Escort or Geo Metro. And there are a few Festivas mixed in. The family oriented gh
39 Post contains links Superfly : Have a car with the 3-pointed Mercedes star emblem is very seductive in many parts of the United States. Rather than repeating myself, here is an old
40 BMI727 : You got that right. Many people around here have fitted their cars with stereo systems that have more value than the car itself, and probably more po
41 JJJ : That should be CDI. TDI is a VW trademark.
42 TylerDurden : Nice attempt at deflection. Smart makes a technically competent car as well. Doesn't mean I'd ever want to own one.
43 Longhornmaniac : It's a little bit more than what you're looking for, but I second the Hyundai Genesis. You might be able to find on gently used for around 30K. I've h
44 JJJ : It's a whole class bigger as well. And big and fast means crappy economy as well 17/25. Anyway the press seems to rave at the Tau V8 so if I ever wer
45 Longhornmaniac : Compared to what? Certainly not the BMW 7 series that he mentioned that he was looking at, although I think the Genesis is actually a little bit bigg
46 TylerDurden : Size-wise, yes. But they are hardly interchangeable. Too very different markets. I can't see anyone in the market for 7-Series/S-Class/A8 even stoppi
47 Longhornmaniac : That's what I meant. I'm sure you're right about the other thing, too. Cheers, Cameron
48 Superfly : No attempt of deflection on my part. I simply asked you to site technical short comings of a certain vehicle and all you've done is stereotype owners
49 KaiGywer : Souped up cop car At least you know it can handle abuse
50 StuckInCA : It's probably not a priority of yours (based on your list), but I'm going to guess you'll have a much more dissappointing ownership experience with an
51 BMI727 : My mom's Caprice wagon has taken 17 years and counting of abuse, most of it from me. That bad boy gets decent mileage and I can toss half of a Home D
52 Ken777 : Around here the 300s are simply 300s. But every time I see one I think of Dick Tracy.
53 Asuflyer05 : Given your parameters and the fact that you are coming out of an Accord, I would recommend the following: 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid or an Acura TL or TS
54 TylerDurden : You must not live in a big city. Every time I see one I think of a bad rap video (or the cell phone I left in a taxi last month).
55 Superfly : I live in San Francisco city proper. A relatively big city I'd say. The 300Cs I see here are stock, driven by ordinary people. I am sure their are so
56 Dw747400 : The point is too step up from the Accord. While the Fusion may be very nice for some needs, its really not what I'm looking for. At that point, I'd p
57 StasisLAX : A new TL will cost nearly $40K or more if its an AWD version - but it's an awesome vehicle. My best friend's parents have had one for about 3 years a
58 BMI727 : I don't know about luxurious or reliable, but I don't think the Genesis will be more fun. The words "numb" and "soft" seem to appear often in reviews
59 TylerDurden : Never said the car was junk. I think it was rated at Average or Above Average reliability---I'm sure on par with Ford's offerings and somewhere below
60 Dw747400 : When talking about most of these cars, I'm looking at 2-3 years old and 20-30k miles on them. The exceptions would be the "lower end" vehicles that a
61 Greaser : Just say no to the TSX. For the money, it is underpowered (as in a GTI has four fewer horses), chinsy. I've driven both the first gen and 2nd gen, an
62 Post contains links Asuflyer05 : The TL is the same size, inside and out, as an A6. In fact, in some dimension it is a touch bigger. You can pick up a 2009 TL for $30k. http://www.zi
63 Superfly : Well I gave you 3 opportunities to say why Dw747400 should avoid the Dodge Charger and all you did was danced around my question. What are we to thin
64 ONTFlyer : Might I suggest a 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid? I just picked one up yesterday. Fully-loaded with just about everything you can imagine for $30,000. Its ra
65 EddieDude : Nobody has mentioned the Infiniti M-series.
66 BMI727 : Good suggestion, I assume that you are talking about the latest generation and not the previous ugly ones. The biggest knock on that is that the same
67 EddieDude : Yes, the new gen. True the G-series is a more engaging car to drive, but it seems our friend Dw747400 needs more interior space, that's why I suggeste
68 JJJ : Maybe the fact that Hyundai gets that mileage while delivering 125hp more than the Ford explains that. I meant the accord he already has. I overlooke
69 Superfly : Once again, I have to bring in facts to get in the way of your silly argument. The Ford 4.6 V8 puts out 300HP, the Hyundai puts out 375. That is a di
70 JJJ : The ford 4.6 does 250 on your beloved crown vic (P.I.), that's where I looked as both are full-size sedans. It gets 300 on the mustang GT, which is a
71 Superfly : 302HP on the Marauder. You still ignored this part;
72 JJJ : Not anymore in production. Oh, and it gets 15/21, btw. so 25% less power with 20% higuer fuel consumption. Great. The Genesis is a gas guzzler (it's
73 BMI727 : It was a pretty awesome dinosaur. Besides, as long as one can afford to fill it up what is the difference? Bad fuel mileage never hurt Lamborghini sa
74 Superfly : No $h!t. We all know that. My point was that the full-sized Fords did offer a higher output 4.6. Also, your figures are wrong on the mileage.
75 JJJ : And my point is the ford 4.6 offers significantly worse economy for significantly less power vs. the hyundai V8. Thus it's a much worse engine packag
76 BMI727 : How can you use fuel economy as a selling point when the potential buyers are more or less indifferent to it? People who bought Marauders most likely
77 JJJ : Again. It's not the fact that it guzzles fuel, but that it does so while delivering significantly less power. It was superfly who brought fuel econom
78 BMI727 : OK, so when did power become the only parameter worth noting when it comes to engines? What about torque and the power band? Extra horsepower aren't
79 JJJ : Re: torque, the tau v8 in the genesis delivers 333 lb/ft at 3.500 rpm, the ford V8 gives 297 lb/ft on the 250hp version (PI), 318 on the Marauder (wh
80 Cpd : It's not like the G8 is a one off. It is a heavily mass produced car with common parts still widely available. The car is sold in a lot of countries
81 PHLBOS : The thing is, the G8 has only been around in the States for just about a year and there's no other vehicle sold (again, in the States) that shares th
82 IgneousRocks : Ha, ha. So true. I had a '73 and a '76 (along with other 1970s model BMWs). Loved 'em, but each owner after me got a sweet car after I fixed everythi
83 Post contains links JamieD : Just out of interest, what sort of MPG (realistically) would I be looking at in a Crown Vic PI? http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk...nufacture=2006
84 IH8BY : I suspect the insurance would be a nastier surprise, given that they're very unusual vehicles over here. That said, I want one.
85 Idealstandard : Hi There, Having owned a couple of Mercs, and having a 4 unit fleet of Mercedes Benz vans, I can only recommend NOT going for one if you are buying us
86 Superfly : Don't waste your time. Some people love to argue just for the sake of arguing. It's expected when some people have a complex issue. So have you made
87 MAH4546 : Stick with the G8 - its a great car, and you can get one new and cheap, especially at a closing Pontiac dealer. Even though it's American-badged, it i
88 BMI727 : I never even said that the Crown Vic is better. It does offend me, both as a car enthusiast and an engineering student, that some people think that t
89 TheSonntag : Just that they won't fall apart. While it is true that some Mercedes in the 90s had reliability issues, just look at the cabs in Lisbon. Several Merc
90 TylerDurden : G8 Reliability - 5.0 (Mediocre) The 2009 Pontiac G8 reliability score shown is the Predicted Reliability rating provided by J.D. Power and Associates
91 A342 : And some people won't accept that efficiency = energy output / energy input. But I won't waste my time explaining that again.
92 BMI727 : But what if some people really don't care about efficiency?
93 A342 : That's fine with me. But when they don't even know what efficiency is, they shouldn't attempt to redefine it.
94 Superfly : Not true at all. If that were the case, there would be no need for German car specialist repair shops. My friends & family that own Mercedes would to
95 Fbgdavidson : I don't think you can go wrong with the Audi or BMW, though would probably avoid the earlier 7 series (if we're talking the Bangle 7) as they had some
96 TylerDurden : Solid cars, no doubt (and you can look like an off duty Security Guard). Your way too young to look like your borrowed your grandfather's car.
97 Dw747400 : Still undecided at this point, though I drove a Mercedes E320 CDI today and it was exceptional. Some conflicting reports above about Mercedes reliabil
98 JJJ : I haven't driven a genesis (yet), but I have extensively driven crown vics and marquises so I can genuinelly tell you they're a stinking steaming pil
99 BMI727 : Still sometimes when I drive the Caprice and I pull out of an alley or driveway, I see other drivers slamming on the brakes. I haven't driven one eit
100 Superfly : Yeah, Spain is full if them. Just a little FYI, you don't get much respect when you tell bold faced lies. Sounds like a cool car. I'd still prefer th
101 JJJ : I have repeatedly said in these board I spend 6-8 weeks a year in the US. The first crown vic I got to drive was in Bahrain some 7 yrs ago, though.
102 Cpd : I would expect GM should have a duty of care to provide support since it was the one who sold those cars. Anything less would be outrageous and unfai
103 PHLBOS : Thanks for the info./correction. Personally, I didn't care too much for that particular car. A fair amount of die-hard classic GTO fans/owners didn't
104 Idealstandard : Yes, that is probably true, but they are the best of a bad bunch when it comes to large scale American built saloons.
105 BMI727 : Yeah, that is a lot of money to pay for any Hyundai. The same will buy a number of other nice new cars and a lot of high end used cars. $40,000 will
106 Post contains links Sv7887 : They can be tricky when it comes to electronics. I have had a 2007 E350 and drive a 2009 E350 currently. My '07 had to have three cam sensors replace
107 KiwiRob : For the love of god don't ever touch anything ever made by Holden. My last company had Commodores as company cars after a couple of years they would
108 Superfly : Very true. Never said I'd buy a Hyundai. The Genesis does seem a bit out of place.
109 KiwiRob : I owned a C220 CDiT for a while with no problems, until it was rear ended. We were stopped when a Hyundai Santa Fe traveling at about 100kph ran up t
110 Dw747400 : How are the 06's? The one I'm considering is a 06 CDI. I know the 07 refresh brought some nice updates, but I'm unsure if it is worth the money. I ca
111 Post contains links Sv7887 : The 06's are okay but the '07 is a worthy upgrade in terms of reliability. It added the 7 speed automatic transmission too with a few other upgrades.
112 Asuflyer05 : I would NOT buy a brand-new G8. The car will lose roughly 30-40% of it's value after the first year. That is a HUGE depreciation hit. On the flip side
113 Superfly : Sure about that? That wasn't the case with the last generation Chevrolet Impala SS or the last Oldsmobile Aurora. In fact, the used 1994-1996 Impala
114 KiwiRob : If the G8 is anything like the Commodore it will depreciate faster than HMS Hood went to the bottom. In NZ you can pick up a 2 year old Commodore SS's
115 Superfly : Probably wont be the case here in the USA. This is the only car off this platform available here. Down there in Australia/NZ, you have more choices t
116 KiwiRob : But the thing is Superfly the ute, wagon, SS, Caprice, Statesman are all just versions of the boggo commodore, just like the G8. Besides if Holden is
117 Superfly : None of those are available here in the US so that is why I think the Pontiac G8 will maintain a higher resale value than in Australia/NZ. If there i
118 KiwiRob : There already are taxi and police variants, basically the same but with vinyl seats. The highway patrol use V8 SS's they even have the same interior
119 Superfly : Oh I know. My point being that Australia and NZ have more rear-drive American brand cars to chose from than here in America. The Pontiac G8 has a sma
120 StasisLAX : Very small following, which is a damn shame because the G8/Holden Commodore is a fine vehicle - I rented one (a basic V-6 G8 sedan) from Avis at LGB
121 Superfly : That has nothing to do with it. GM will still be around to offer service and parts will be available for decades to come. People still can easily get
122 TylerDurden : Flyer is right. G8 loses approximatley 10% more value per year than the 2009 average. This has not been adjusted since the demise of Pontiac. KBB's p
123 Superfly : The G8 just came out. Some models will depreciate faster than others. Has nothing to do with the availability of parts & service over the lifespan of
124 TylerDurden : I don't see major components being built on 'speculation' that someone will need them. And if you find them on line, they would likely be used, expen
125 Post contains links Superfly : Folks I know that own these vehicles don't seem to have a problem with parts or service. These aren't rich folks eather with money & time to burn. Wa
126 Ken777 : If we were talking about a Kingswood I would agree with you. When we lived in Perth I did have an old used Kingswood wagon that is probably still goi
127 TylerDurden : Try Good Morning America or the Today show. They actually made the calls (sorry, can't remember which one----6 of the 10 Saturn dealerships were not
128 Asuflyer05 : I wouldn't put money on it... A 2009 G8 GT will list for $35k with Premium & Sport Paks and Moonroof. Wholesale cost to the dealer is about $32k. The
129 TylerDurden : My comment was in regard to a base G8...not a G8-GT. If the discussion was limited only to the GT model...my apologies.
130 Ken777 : Same group that put man on the moon . . . PS. I'm on Medicare and consider it far better than the rip off private insurance I had for years.
131 Dw747400 : Actually, the dealer I was working with was offering a G8 GT with premium package (no sports package--I like the ride on the premium better) for arou
132 Superfly : Go for it. My point being that parts are easily accessible for defunct companies. It's not like every part made will disappear when a company files f
133 Molykote : Buy the Audi (pretty much a slam dunk in my opinion). The only less than flattering thing I can say about the Audi is that most people over estimate t
134 777DadandJr : The May sales figure you qouted above was 2008. The car had only been on sale for about two months at that point, and was still competing with the Gr
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