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F1 2009 - General Issues  
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8443 posts, RR: 8
Posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2292 times:

All who participate in the F1 threads. As it was flagged in the Monaco thread, I've started this thread as there's plenty happening off the track. We'll keep the race threads on the races only and all the political stuff can happen in here.


Former race Alex Wurz is set to become the team principal of the Team Superfund outfit which has lodged an entry for 2010. I don't see how he's going to continue racing sports cars and be team principal.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75753

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBlueElephant From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 1813 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2263 times:

Which means that all current F1 teams, Superfund, Lola, Lightspeed, and Prodrive have all lodged entries?...what happened to USGPE?

Does this mean a 28 car grid for next year?


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17063 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2262 times:



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 1):
Does this mean a 28 car grid for next year?

Wow, 28 cars is a lot compared to this years 20. Wonder if it will work though.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2257 times:



Quoting B747forever (Reply 2):
Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 1):
Does this mean a 28 car grid for next year?

Wow, 28 cars is a lot compared to this years 20. Wonder if it will work though.

Shouldn't be too difficult at all. Even back in the late 80s/early 90s they had up to 35 cars trying to qualify for 26 grid slots at each race.. They would even have prequalifying of the teams with the least points to allow the fastest four cars to join the main qualifying with 30 then trying to get in the top 26 to be able to race.



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineBoeing74741R From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2007, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2247 times:



Quoting B747forever (Reply 2):
Wow, 28 cars is a lot compared to this years 20. Wonder if it will work though.

It will be good to have lots of cars on the grid again besides the norm of 20/22 over the last decade or so.


User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8443 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2201 times:

The FIA changed the regs to allow a maximum of 13 teams, so that means 26 cars. Some teams who have submitted entries won't be in Melbourne in March. One would assume that the current ten teams will be there, plus three new teams. But those ten teams particiapting is all incumbent upon them with FOTA reaching an agreement with the FIA over the budget cap.

User currently offlineBlueElephant From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 1813 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2140 times:

Some Epsilon Team has also applied for Entry, It'll be interesting to see who gets added.

I hope some of our older favorite drivers like Takuma Sato, Anthony Davidson get to drive I liked seeing Super Aguri in the lineup.


User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5689 posts, RR: 44
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2129 times:
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Brinkmanship,

Now that Max has entries from between 9 & 11 non FOTA teams he could, on paper at least, run a championship without the FOTA members and to the 2010 FIA rules.

Who is going to blink first, FIA or FOTA or is this a chance for the struggling manufacturers(Renault, Toyota, BMW) to withdraw with "honour"?

While things are pretty quiet on the political front right now, I am pretty sure we can count on them to heat up in the next few weeks.

Cheers



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8443 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2117 times:



Quoting StealthZ (Reply 7):
Who is going to blink first, FIA or FOTA or is this a chance for the struggling manufacturers(Renault, Toyota, BMW) to withdraw with "honour"?

Well all the FOTA teams have contractual obligations to FOM. So if the FIA does continue without them, then what contractual obligations does FOM have to the teams? I would think that there's something in there and Bernie might push the issue to make sure they're included.


User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5689 posts, RR: 44
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2112 times:
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Quoting Bill142 (Reply 8):
Well all the FOTA teams have contractual obligations to FOM.

I know Bernie has waved that stick over Ferrari in the last couple of weeks and I am sure his contracts are pretty watertight... but totally leakproof? How many contract truly are?
Bernie himself probably left some tiny little loophole in case things turned against him and he needed a way out.
FOM likely employ really high priced lawyers but if Bernie is going to choose enemies the even larger and even higher priced legal teams of BMW, Toyota, Renault et al might not be the best ones.

If I was a FOTA lawyer I might argue that the 2010 FIA F1 World championship with cost caps and a 2 tier rule structure was not the series that my client had contracted with the FOM to provide entrants for.

All the above is conjecture as FOM/FOTA/FIA contract details are somewhat more secret than almost anything on the planet.

Cheers



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2101 times:



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 6):
I hope some of our older favorite drivers like Takuma Sato, Anthony Davidson get to drive I liked seeing Super Aguri in the lineup.

Well the German group that bought up the Super Aguri assets have now placed an entry - under the famous Brabham name. Interestingly another name from the past March is in there too. And another new bid is from N.Technology who ran Alfa Romeo's works touring car programme a few seasons back.



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineBlueElephant From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 1813 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks ago) and read 2085 times:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75796
Mosley tells the FOTA to start their own League because their terms are not possible

N.Technology, Prodrive, Lola, USF1, Team Superfund, Epsilon-Euskadi, Campos Meta 1, Brabham and Litespeed (9 teams total) are on the list of new teams to have confirmed their applications for a place in Formula 1 next year.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75812
The teams seek a new Solution not a new Series.


User currently offlineScrubbsYWG From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2075 times:

hmmm. i think max is going to surprise everyone and not bring in any of the teams that signed up for 2010 under a demand for different rules(i think williams is the only one we didnt have). I think we will have williams and 9 new teams(and then there may be teams we dont know have applied). Apparently it is illigal according to FIA rules to sign up as part of a demand.

However, my above point fails to know how sound any of the new entries are. Some may be laughed at by the FIA in terms of their organization, facilities, or business plan.


User currently offlineWaterpolodan From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1649 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2073 times:

Brabham??? I wonder if the brabham family has any ties at all to this team, or if it is just another spin off a la the Pan Am airline that has no affiliation whatsoever with the original.

User currently offlineScrubbsYWG From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2070 times:



Quoting Waterpolodan (Reply 13):
Brabham??? I wonder if the brabham family has any ties at all to this team, or if it is just another spin off a la the Pan Am airline that has no affiliation whatsoever with the original.

stories say the rights to the name have been sold and resold a number of times over the last 30 years. But apparently the family is looking at their legal avenues as well.


User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5689 posts, RR: 44
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2002 times:
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Is Max on Crack or does he think the teams are stupid?

He is insisting the FOTA teams confirm their entries and then work with the FIA to change the rules for next year. His message is that it is only by having confirmed entries do those teams get a say in any changes to the rules.

Quoting Autosport:
"Under the International Sporting Code (Art. 66) we cannot now change the published 2010 rules unless we have the consent of all the competitors who have entered," wrote Mosley in the letter,

Who is he kidding, how is he going to get FOTA with their no(or high) cost cap, single tier competition philosophy and the new entrants and their lower budgets to unanimously agree on a set of rules?

.. or if the FOTA teams confirm will he accept the 10 teams entries and maintain the staus quo therefore hanging the new entrants out to dry, hopefully sending them a nice note thanking them for their roles as bargaining tools?

Cheers



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3550 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1993 times:



Quoting Waterpolodan (Reply 13):
Brabham??? I wonder if the brabham family has any ties at all to this team, or if it is just another spin off a la the Pan Am airline that has no affiliation whatsoever with the original.

In the early 80's the Brabham team was owned by Bernie Ecclestone, the rights to the name had already left control of the Brabham family by then. Its a long time since anyone raced in F1 under the name, so there could be a very tangled history of ownership in the last 25 years or so.


User currently offlineBlueElephant From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 1813 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1970 times:



Quoting StealthZ (Reply 15):
Is Max on Crack or does he think the teams are stupid?

I think Max is scared now that he realizes he could lose a lot of money if the FOTA teams pulled out.

He may still have 8 or 9 teams, but for him and everyone else,

it's like giving up a Garage full of Maybachs, McLaren SLRs, Ferraris, Lambos, a couple Zondas, BMWs, Mercedes and some Maseratis....and replacing them with some Suzuki Swifts, Vauxhall Astras, and Ford Mondeos. (are these the right Euro names for these cars?sorry we don't get any of the cool cars small cheap cars in the States so I don't know the names of them)

It'll be interesting to see what happens...Max will have to alter his own rules (which he pretty much does for every race anyway)...if the FOTA teams are to comply. entering unconditionally only to find out that FOTA can't modify the rules would have some severe consequences.


User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8443 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1940 times:

What Max probably doesn't care about is that a number of the FOTA teams have been crucial to the building of the Formula One brand. No doubt Berine is in Maxs ear doing all he can to protect that brand. Anyone who has a passing interest in F1 will switch on next year and be dumb founded when their team and driver are missing and there's a bunch of nobodies driving around.

User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1929 times:

Ironically the success of Brawn GP and Red Bull this year must certainly be playing into Max's hands or at least his thinking. Even though they are siding with the manufacturer teams (at the moment), they are dominating the front of the field and showing Max that the manufacturers are not everything. And having all those new teams queuing up to join makes his case stronger. Particularly given the current economic downturn and also heavier environmental pressures in the future means a manufacturer dominated sport can not bwe guaranteed going forward, regardless of the current arguments. The rumours of Toyota's withdrawl at the end of the year are not going away, and Renault too is still a serious doubt.

For all those who say how awful this would be (generally the younger generation) should remember that in effect a move back to a Formula One comprised primarily of teams whose sole purpose is to race (like Williams for example). It would actually resemble a very similar set up to the 1970s - which is often regarded as the greatest period of grand prix racing - certainly far superior to recent years.

It is also the era that both Max and Bernie were team owners themselves.....



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1923 times:



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 6):
I hope some of our older favorite drivers like Takuma Sato, Anthony Davidson get to drive I liked seeing Super Aguri in the lineup.

So this would be just about the same as Brawn buying off Zonda'?
I want the Aguris to stay Aguris. Taku and Davidson are two very capable drivers and very nice boys from what I know when I met them both in Monaco.

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 17):
I think Max is scared now that he realizes he could lose a lot of money if the FOTA teams pulled out.

Are we going to have Tata, Skoda, Lada and Kia teams? Ha Ha...

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 18):
Anyone who has a passing interest in F1 will switch on next year and be dumb founded when their team and driver are missing and there's a bunch of nobodies driving around.

Oh I want them all to stay as far as I am concerned. This pretense "environmental" thing is crap and so hypocritical. I want the rules to go back to what they were in 2007 and 2008 seasons. That's it. 2009 rules don't do any good as far as I am concerned.

Is there any chances we might see some "off" F1 races in the near future with teams going astray from the Bernie/Max "mafia"?  Confused  Yeah sure



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8443 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1862 times:

So only a few hours now until the big annoucement of who has been entered into the 2010 championship. I think that the FOTA teams will all be there along with Prodrive I'm not sure who will get the other two spots. However, given their recent history with the FIA, I wouldn't be surprised if McLaren were for some reason dropped from the list.

User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3550 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1853 times:



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 17):
I think Max is scared now that he realizes he could lose a lot of money if the FOTA teams pulled out.

I thnk we can be sure that Bernie has the money side of things well under control, anyone who wants to host a race has to sign a multi year deal, and guarantee the money regardless of who turns up to race, likewise for the media rights.
Max and Bernie don't suffer when the crowds don't turn out, its the race promoters.

This is one of the problems of F1, in that tracks in countries with little support for F1, have paid vast sums to host races, which are then held at half empty tracks. Just look at Turkey, would the crowd have been so thin, if they had been racing at Magny Cours ?


User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8443 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1847 times:

FIA has released the 2010 entry list. The FOTA teams are there, though their entry is conditional on reaching an agreement with the FIA by the 19th of June. Surprisingly Prodrive was not submitted. Presumably because they have burnt the FIA once before.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76045


User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1844 times:

Only real surprise there was Manor GP. There were certainly one or two more likely new entrants such as Prodrive.....

That is assuming that none of the manufacturers pull the plug at the end of the season of course.... Renault still being heavily rumoured to do so....



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
25 MadameConcorde : Campos Grand Prix Campos Cosworth Manor Grand Prix Manor Cosworth Team US F1 Team US F1 Cosworth What the heck? Where are my Aguris? Is Mc Laren goin
26 ThreeFourThree : "These five teams have submitted conditional entries.The FIA has invited them to lift those conditions following further discussions to be concluded n
27 Sudden : There has been lots of talks going on about using the brabham name, as the brabham family is not going to let the name be used just like that. Aim fo
28 Scbriml : The FOTA teams seem to be split by the FIA. They seem to be saying that Ferrari, Red Bull, Torro Rosso, Williams and Force India have confirmed entri
29 ThreeFourThree : Red Bull and Toro Rosso's agreement is from when the GPMA was still around, I believe.
30 Bill142 : Well Williams and Force India, both lodged unconditional entries. My understanding is that Ferrari and Red Bull are contractually obliged to be there
31 Tsv : Not to sound like Pauline Hanson but could someone please explain how on earth a budget cap is going to be enforced?
32 ThreeFourThree : This is what i think happens: they show their financial records, if they find they lie, constructors point disappear or they are banned from the sport
33 StealthZ : There have been meetings and correspondence this week between the main protagonists in F1 and it appears that the chances of a split and breakaway ser
34 StealthZ : So FOTA have placed their cards on the table. I guess the F1 action for the foreseeable future will centre around boardrooms & courtrooms. Is it possi
35 Sudden : I must say that I think it's good that FOTA is doing this, and I hope they are serious. Even with the new entries for next year, I think the F1 series
36 Bill142 : I wonder what sort of argument Ron would be getting into with Max right about now. I think a season ban for McLaren would mysteriously come about he
37 Post contains links Bill142 : I guess this just proves that KERS was a waste of time and money for everyone involved. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76402 BMW are righ
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