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Coal Ash Sites Too Dangerous To Reveal To Citizens  
User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3287 posts, RR: 6
Posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2651 times:

"Just how bad has the coal ash situation gotten in the United States? So bad that the Department of Homeland Security has told Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) that her committee can't publicly disclose the location of coal ash dumps across the country.

The coal ash pollution is so toxic, so dangerous, that an enemy of the United States -- or a major storm or some other disrupting (natural) event -- could easily cause them to spill out and lay waste to any area nearby." And there are hundreds of these sites, especially in the eastern U.S.

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0...ash-spills-too-dange_n_214739.html

The U.S. government is so dumb! it's real easy for terrorists to figure out where these coal ash slurry sites are. Just go to the biggest coal fired electricity plants (like the TVA sites) and follow the big yellow dump trucks that carry the ash!!   

And since when does the Department of Homeland Security control our elected officials???

[Edited 2009-06-13 18:26:45]


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
10 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29840 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2616 times:



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
So bad that the Department of Homeland Security has told Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) that her committee can't publicly disclose the location of coal ash dumps across the country.

Yeah we had that same issue with the Drift River Oil Terminal when Redoubt was going strong this spring.

Cook Inlet Keeper and some of the other NGO environmental groups tried to get estimates about the stock on hand and Tesoro, DHS and USCG hid behind the "National Security" skirt and refused to tell them how much oil was in the facility

The funny part is that an oil tank is a cylinder of a estimatable height and diameter. It doesn't exactly take 8th grade algerbra to figure out the max capacity of the tank farm there.

What bothers me is that a few years ago the USGovt got a lawsuit tossed from Area 51 workers claiming they got cancer from chemicals they where ordered to illegally dispose of by burning. The suit was tossed on the grounds of national security too.

If you want to keep the goverment and companies from doing harm to the world you need to keep an eye on them. The current security rules defintely prevents that from happening.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2601 times:



Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
hid behind the "National Security" skirt

These coal ash sites have existed for years with no federal EPA regulation and no national security claims. Oversight at the individual state level is pretty weak, with some states treating coal ash ponds like dams used for power generation (with very poor environmental monitoring) and flood control and other states not regulating these sites at all.

The Army Corps of Engineers found that 44 sites were ranked as "high hazards", meaning they could cause death and significant property damage if a storm, a terrorist attack or a structural failure caused them to spill into surrounding neighborhoods, according to the Associated Press.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090612/ap_on_go_ot/us_coal_ash_disclosure

A spokesman for the Army Corps of Engineers, said that “we (the Corp) did not direct anyone to withhold or not release information,” but he said federal policy says “you shouldn’t make it easy for the bad guys to do their jobs” by posting lists on the Internet or giving them to the media."

FOLLOW THE BIG YELLOW DUMP TRUCKS???? Or giving the powerful public utility companies lobby a huge EPA bill for the clean-up of these site.... IMHO.  vomit 



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2544 times:

Worse, those ash deposits are radioactive.
Not all that much, but a lot of them are borderline for being nuclear waste rather than chemical waste and someone with the right facilities might be able to extract that radioactive material and make it into a dirty bomb.

Was a revelation when I found that out while working in a radiation lab during graduation work.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2501 times:

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 3):
Worse, those ash deposits are radioactive.
Not all that much, but a lot of them are borderline for being nuclear waste rather than chemical waste and someone with the right facilities might be able to extract that radioactive material and make it into a dirty bomb.

Was a revelation when I found that out while working in a radiation lab during graduation work.

Wow. What to do, run around in small circles I guess.

Of course coal fired power stations put out more radioactivity that all except one nuclear power station ever has. Is it a problem, not really.

Sci Amer can manage this:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...ore-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste

McBride and his co-authors estimated that individuals living near coal-fired installations are exposed to a maximum of 1.9 millirems of fly ash radiation yearly. To put these numbers in perspective, the average person encounters 360 millirems of annual "background radiation" from natural and man-made sources, including substances in Earth's crust, cosmic rays, residue from nuclear tests and smoke detectors.

If you want to avoid low level radiation probably moving NEAR a coal ash site is a good idea if you are currently living in much of Florida or are thinking of working in large number of agencies in central Washington - check for red granite walls and floors. Don't THINK of living in many states in the west.

The problem with uranium is not that it is radioactive - it has a half life of 4.46 billion years for the main isotope and 700 million years for U235 - but that it is poisonous. Some of the daughter elements from decay are much more radioactive, but the concentrations of these are small.

Most elements are below average crustal abundance in raw coal. Burning them gets the concentration up to about crustal average for most elements and above crustal average for a small proportion but mostly not much above. If there were many elements much above crustal average, the ash deposits would indeed be mined as a source of some less abundant elements. But alas ...................

For a discussion of trace elements in coal see

http://www.flipkart.com/environmenta...lements-coal/0792336666-y6w3fk9cob

for a short review. The book concentrates attention on elements considered to be of environmental concern. Some of Swaines earlier publications provide information across the full spectrum of TEs in coals.

A fair proportion of coal ash is incorporated in various building materials these days, roads, houses, sidewalks. Best be alert to these hidden dangers NOT.

Many of the articles on U in coal ash are emerging from the nuclear industry. Hardly surprisingly after being panned over nuclear waste for half a century they are looking for other scapegoats. One article even manages to integrate all the U in coal ash from 1937 to date for the whole world. Gosh, that is scary!

Yes, if a dam retaining wall bursts that could be a problem. Other than that, leachate is the main problem, but before you get around to U and Th, try worrying about Hg, As, Cd and something else I am forgetting. Especially, worry about the mercury emissions that were permitted under the last administration, especially as I keep saying in Texas!!!!

[Edited 2009-06-14 01:09:59]

User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2324 times:

DHS has the authority to bar legislators from revealing this?

Didn't Frank Church in the 1970's reveal all sorts of stuff the CIA did? I could only imagine that was far more classified and he got away with it...


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2207 times:



Quoting Baroque (Reply 4):
try worrying about Hg, As, Cd and something else I am forgetting

Which was selenium if anyone was interested!!


User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2062 times:

Boxer is punching back:

"Boxer and her committee staff have been informed of the locations of the sites, and she was permitted to inform only the senators whose states have the high hazard sites about their locations, she said. She told reporters she is sending a letter to EPA, DHS, and the Army Corps today asking whether the public disclosure of the hazardous coal ash waste sites is consistent with the treatment of other hazardous sites, noting that locations of Superfund sites, power plants and other sites are common knowledge. "There's really no need to do this," Boxer said, pledging to hold more committee hearings on coal ash."

Source: http://www.homelandsecurityforsale.org/node/184



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29840 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2025 times:



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 7):
"There's really no need to do this," Boxer said, pledging to hold more committee hearings on coal ash."

God it really pains me that I agree completely with her.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12185 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 1989 times:



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
http://www.huffingtonpost.com

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 3):
Worse, those ash deposits are radioactive.

So are the reflective letters/numbers on just about every reflectorized street name sign in the US and EU. "Glow in the dark" paint, like that on a linsatic compass, and other common items is also radioactive.


User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 1946 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
http://www.huffingtonpost.com

Perhaps the Associated Press is more respectable - definitely better than Fox (Faux) News.

Source; http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090612/ap_on_go_ot/us_coal_ash_disclosure



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
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