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WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?  
User currently onlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3416 posts, RR: 17
Posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5862 times:
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http://news.aol.com/article/state-tr...2Fstate-trooper-ambulance%2F527730

So who should yield? A police cruiser on its way to a crime scene or an ambulance carrying a sick person?


I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15715 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5861 times:

I don't really know. The St. Louis Fire Department has a unique solution to this problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3uoVOOlT2s



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineFlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7117 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5844 times:

I am going to say if this did happen that the Ambulance would go first for the simple reason that police cars are a lot faster than Ambulances.


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineIflyatldl From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1936 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5832 times:

Well, the big problem with this(and what got the Ambulance stopped) was the fact the Emergency Lights weren't on. That aside, the video speaks for itself and the Trooper went over the top. Back to the question, you always yield to an emergency vehicle when it's lights are on. Me personally, I yield to emergency vehicles even when their lights aren't operating as a courtesy. Reason: I'd rather be behind them when their lights go off and they're called into service, instead of front. I would think it's the vehicle with it's Emergency Lights on. But, that's just me.  

[Edited 2009-06-16 15:49:09]


Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
User currently offlineJpax From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5782 times:

After seeing that video, I did not know that choking a man is an allowed method of restraint.

User currently offlineFr8Mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5344 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5768 times:

We always taught that if 2 emergency vehicles, regardless of agency, reached an intersection at the same time, the right of way is yielded to the vehicle that has the green light or without the stop sign. In the event that it's a 4-way stop, the vehicle on the right has the right of way.

In the case of the video, under no circumstances was a vehicle running code-3 to pass another running code-3, regardless of agency. If the lead driver chooses to yield, for whatever reason, he had to switch off his equipment and yield. I've never seen this done and it was discouraged; the public does enough stupid things when they see lights and sirens, better not to add variables.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away. Never leave your cave without your club.
User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5751 times:

The Ambulance always has the right of way here.

78—Keeping clear of police and emergency vehicles
(1) A driver must not move into the path of an approaching police or emergency vehicle
that is displaying a flashing blue or red light (whether or not it is also displaying other
lights) or sounding an alarm. An Ambulance ALWAYS has the right-of-way over other emergency vehicles.
Offence provision.
Note—
Approaching, emergency vehicle and police vehicle are defined in the dictionary.
(2) If a driver is in the path of an approaching police or emergency vehicle that is
displaying a flashing blue or red light (whether or not it is also displaying other lights)
or sounding an alarm, the driver must move out of the path of the vehicle as soon as
the driver can do so safely.
Offence provision.
(3) This rule applies to the driver despite any other rule of the Australian Road Rules.

From http://www.legislation.sa.gov.au/



אני תומך בישראל
User currently offlineOkie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2986 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5739 times:

Lots of media going on about the incident in the area.

Problem 1
What was trooper doing on an emergency call with wife in car.
Problem 2
What happened to the call that the officer was suppose to be on that was an emergency.
Problem 3
Why did the officer involved call for back up of the ambulance stop and cancel the call that he was suppose to answer and another back up officer pulled off the original call.
Problem 4
When officer was informed of patient in ambulance he did not as suggested go to the hospital and resolve the issue there.
Problem 5
The paramedic that was attacked was in the back with the patient not the driver of the ambulance
Problem 6
His superiors put him on paid suspended leave but claimed the problem was with the paramedics and patient. The officer was not putting the patients life endanger.
Problem 7
It took threats of court order to get the police dash cam recording released "public document" that highway patrol claim are not public documents.

It has been pretty entertaining to hear all the hype coming from the Highway Patrol, they appear to be trying to destroy any possible credibility that they might have had.
Not to many are buying the HP's side of the story.

Okie


User currently offlineItsjustme From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2768 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5729 times:

I've seen this video a few times now. First, I don't believe there was a failure to yield on the part of the EMS driver (which I assume was an EMT). He yielded to the officer when it was safe to do so. That doesn't mean the stop was illegal. The officer felt the ambulance failed to yield. That's probable cause for him to make the stop. As for the obscene gesture, that's the officer's word against the EMS driver's. However, it's not against the law to flip off a police officer. If it were, I'd spend most my day arresting people for it. Granted, it's not a wise thing to do but it's not illegal and that alone is not grounds to make a traffic stop. As for the actions of the paramedic: First, he was wrong to exit the ambulance for a couple of reasons. First, medically speaking, what he did constitutes patient abandonment and I would hope, after seeing the video his company and medical director will take issue with his actions. Had the patient's condition deteriorated or, worse case scenario, had the patient arrested, the medic would have had no way of knowing it. Putting his lack of medical ethics aside, the medic was wrong to confront the officer while the officer was in the course of his duty. Whether or not the medic agreed with the demeanor of the officer, he was obstructing a police officer which is a crime. Don't get me wrong, I am not defending the demeanor of the officer. He escalated the incident without cause. All I am saying is, from the video, the officer was effecting a traffic stop and had it been me, I, too would have ordered the medic to return to the vehicle. The fact the vehicle the officer had stopped was an ambulance is irrelevant. The fact there was a patient in the ambulance is also irrelevant. The officer wasn't disrupting patient care. In fact, it was the medic who put his patient in jeopardy the second he exited the ambulance. The medic stating he is "in charge of the unit" is irrelevant. He may be medically in charge but the officer was only concerned with the operator of the vehicle (until he was confronted by the medic), and rightly so. I have stopped passenger vehicles and had an irate passenger get out of the vehicle and dispute the validity of the stop (just as the medic did) and, in some instances I have had to arrest the aggressive passenger for obstruction of a police officer. Bottom line, the officer was acting within the course of his duty when he made the stop and the medic was wrong to exit the ambulance and confront the officer. Had it been me, the medic would have been ordered to return to the ambulance. If he failed to comply, he'd get a warning to return to the vehicle or face being arrested for obstructing a police officer. Further failure on his part to comply would result in his arrest. I would have allowed him to remain with his patient until a second ambulance could be called to the scene to take over patient care or, if the patient's condition was such that it would be in his or her best interest to continue on to the hospital instead of waiting for a second unit to arrive, I'd follow the EMS unit to the hospital and place the medic under arrest after patient care had been transferred to hospital staff.

[Edited 2009-06-16 19:29:27]

User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5720 times:



Quoting SOBHI51 (Thread starter):
So who should yield?



Slow night?


User currently offlineIflyatldl From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1936 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5717 times:



Quoting Okie (Reply 7):
Lots of media going on about the incident in the area.

Problem 1
What was trooper doing on an emergency call with wife in car.
Problem 2
What happened to the call that the officer was suppose to be on that was an emergency.
Problem 3
Why did the officer involved call for back up of the ambulance stop and cancel the call that he was suppose to answer and another back up officer pulled off the original call.
Problem 4
When officer was informed of patient in ambulance he did not as suggested go to the hospital and resolve the issue there.
Problem 5
The paramedic that was attacked was in the back with the patient not the driver of the ambulance
Problem 6
His superiors put him on paid suspended leave but claimed the problem was with the paramedics and patient. The officer was not putting the patients life endanger.
Problem 7
It took threats of court order to get the police dash cam recording released "public document" that highway patrol claim are not public documents.

It has been pretty entertaining to hear all the hype coming from the Highway Patrol, they appear to be trying to destroy any possible credibility that they might have had.
Not to many are buying the HP's side of the story.

I just spoke with my friend (she just happened to call-planning a get-together) who oddly enough was not only with Cincinnati PD, she was also an EMT and Firefighter for CVG. So, I ssked her what her take onthis was and her reply: Bottom line:
Emegency Flashers-Lights trump.
BUT, what might have happened is the EMTs were so pre-occupied stablizing the patient, they could have forgotten to deploy the flashing lights until they were under way-hence the "surprised look" that was interpreded as an "obscine gesture". She told me "it happens alot".

Either way, she said the trooper had some issues...



Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
User currently onlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3416 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5687 times:
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Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 9):
Slow night?

Is this the best contribution you have?
No my question is real. want to know if the ambulance did have to yield to the police car or not?



I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8187 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5675 times:

In TUL the police cars can and do go faster than ambulances - especially in an emergency.

The ambulance service has learned a long time ago that there is a need to keep a lower speed in order to control the ambulance. They are awkward and have a high center of gravity and can't safely go as fast as a police car.

That made me look at how fast the ambulance in the video reacted to the police car. While the video didn't show anything definitive it did appear that the ambulance was going too fast to move out of the police car's way - especially if there was a patient in the back.

As for the stop, with a patient in the ambulance there is, I believe, justification for the medic to step out and ensure the officer was aware of the patient. The officer did get into a discussion with the medic and was well aware that there was a patient heading to the hospital.

At that point there is no reason or excuse for not letting the ambulance first take care of the patient and then let the officer complete his efforts at the hospital.

The only thing that I saw that would have been the reason for things getting out of hand was that the officer was white and the driver of the ambulance, the medic, and apparently the patient, were all black. Unfortunately that is what stands out for me.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5672 times:



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
The ambulance service has learned a long time ago that there is a need to keep a lower speed in order to control the ambulance. T

Plus the fact there is a paramedic in the back usually working on the transport. And a patient that may be feeling every bump on the road in a very big way if you get my drift. Also it should be noted that there are some conditions that may cause additional trama to the patient by the sudden loud noise caused by the siren being turned on. Which is why sometimes you see busses running with lights only. It isn't just to keep the neighbors from complaining.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineIflyatldl From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1936 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5633 times:

UM, the racial issue asside, they didn't have their Emergency Lights on and that was problamatic. It wasn't a race issue, just a pissed off OKST. It was wrong, but it's on video.


Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5584 times:



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 11):
Is this the best contribution you have?
No my question is real. want to know if the ambulance did have to yield to the police car or not?

I know but this topic is a little bit of a stretch. I like you better in the political threads!


User currently offline57AZ From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2550 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5437 times:

Here in Arizona, the Arizona Revised Statutes stipulate that in the case of an emergency vehicle responding to an emergency, the emergency lights and siren must be activated. However, that does not excuse the operator of the emergency vehicle from observing the motor vehicle code with the exception of prima facie speed limits and traffic control devices. The operator is also responsible for operating their vehicle with due caution and can be held liable for any accident caused while responding to an emergency, regardless of whether the siren and lights are used if they do not use due caution.

In the case of this police officer, he not only appears to have exhibited poor judgment but may not have been operating his vehicle with due caution (as many state laws require). If an officer out here were to do something like that, they would be suspended pending further investigation and possible termination.



"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5415 times:

Def Saving a Life will get preference.
regds
MEL.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6299 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5369 times:



Quoting Iflyatldl (Reply 3):
Me personally, I yield to emergency vehicles even when their lights aren't operating as a courtesy

So you mean you're driving down a street and a cop car is coming the other direction at 30 without lights on and you pull to the side? Oh man, if I were the driver behind you, I would be giving you a whoopin'


User currently offlineBMIFlyer From UK - England, joined Feb 2004, 8810 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5352 times:

Hmm, what a video.

It seems that the ambulance driver pulled over when it was safe to do so.

The trooper was way out of order however. I think he needs a few lessons in how to control himself.



Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
User currently offlineAGC525 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 989 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5342 times:

In Pennsylvania in an Ambulance you must stop at every stop sign and red light.

Police do not have to yield.

EVOC (Emergency Vehicle Operators Course) is required of all fire, police, and EMS.



American Aviation: From Kitty Hawk to the Moon in 66 years!
User currently offlineFxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7189 posts, RR: 86
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5338 times:
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A classmate of mine, back in the day at University of Texas, crashed into an ambulance that ran a red light. She ended up getting a massive fine. The radar in my car always goes off when emergency services vehicles are in the area...

User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5668 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5305 times:



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 8):
The fact the vehicle the officer had stopped was an ambulance is irrelevant. The fact there was a patient in the ambulance is also irrelevant. The officer wasn't disrupting patient care. In fact, it was the medic who put his patient in jeopardy the second he exited the ambulance.

"Was not disrupting care".... by arresting the guy? Intereseting is that the emergncy call the cop was suppposedly responding to all of a sudden did not matter as the prioroity became cop's ego.
Arresting a medic on duty... how much lower can he possibly stoop?
I mean the unbelievably arrogant behavior of the cop: the paramedic addresees the cop as "sir" while he for some reason feels the medic is his "buddy". Also, shouldn't it be a basic courtesy that he takes off his sunglasses when talking to someone?
Send the cop to some anger management school.


User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6074 posts, RR: 29
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5298 times:
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Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
The St. Louis Fire Department has a unique solution to this problem:

Notice how the guy halfway up the block on the upper left side of the video turns around and walks the other way after the crash. What a dead beat..... Typical of many people today, not wanting to get involved.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineDC10extender From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 617 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5292 times:



Quoting Okie (Reply 7):
Problem 1
What was trooper doing on an emergency call with wife in car.

His wife was riding along, it is perfectly fine to go on an emergency call with her in the car. This isn't a problem.

Quoting Okie (Reply 7):
Why did the officer involved call for back up of the ambulance stop and cancel the call that he was suppose to answer and another back up officer pulled off the original call.

It is possible he was cleared by other officers on the call.

Quoting Okie (Reply 7):
The paramedic that was attacked was in the back with the patient not the driver of the ambulance

He was "attacked" because he confronted the officer, resisted a lawful order to get back in the vehicle, and then resisted the officer when he performed a lawful arrest.

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 2):

Why would the ambulance go first? The woman had a non life threatening condition and the ambulance was going routine. A police car going code 3 trumps for sure.

Quoting Jpax (Reply 4):

It is a permitted use of force. I have had to do it myself in affecting arrests. It can stop a fight real quick.



Did you ever read on your birth certificate that life is fair? Thats cause its not there.
25 Racko : Gotta love cops. Are you really allowed to transport your wife (or, for that matter, anyone who isn't a policeman or an arrestee) while driving with y
26 KaiGywer : Any civilian ride alongs (yes they happen a lot) must sign a waiver basically stating it can turn dangerous, you could get injured, you will not sue
27 Stratosphere : I think he had his wife in the car and flipped the lights and siren on to show off and got pissed when this ambulence did not yield to his lights and
28 Itsjustme : Nice editing job of my post. You conveniently forgot to include: It's called contempt of badge and yes, unfortunately it happens. How much lower? A l
29 KSYR : Um, that is VERY unsafe, and if it happens a lot, maybe those EMTs need better training. If you plan on going through red lights & stop signs, speedi
30 KSYR : Forgot to add that there are a lot of EMS calls that aren't in fact emergencies; people like to call ambulances for minor injuries and illness because
31 BMI727 : True. But to be fair to it, there are a some non-emergency situations that require an ambulance for one reason or another.
32 DC10extender : Of course, because all of us cops are power hungry, self centered assholes. I can tell you, one of the most maddening things is people who don't yiel
33 Aero145 : Why do I find that dumb? I think it is more important getting to somewhere where there is someone injured or there is a fire, at least here in German
34 Okees : Some of you mentioned that because the ambulance did not have its sirens on, the police car has the right of way. But would the ambulance need to have
35 Fr8Mech : I didn't catch that he wasn't running code 3 when I first looked at it. If not running code 3, he should have yielded. To answer your question: the l
36 KSYR : Well, to be fair most people here believe that you are required by law to pull over for any emergency vehicle with lights and/or sirens on, so they d
37 BMI727 : I have little doubt that some cops use the lights and sirens to get somewhere a bit faster. But personally, considering what they do every day, I am
38 B727 : I had this same thing happen to me a few years back. I was driving for a local volunteer ambulance corp. When we were enroute to the hospital about 3
39 Type-Rated : Happens here in Houston all the time. People just keep driving along like nothing is happening even though they have an ambulance on their tail with
40 Aero145 : I feel that you have misunderstood me. I found it dumb that a police car on a run is more important than an ambulance/fire brigade (heavy and difficu
41 Stratosphere : Not all of you...But some of you definately ARE. Just like any other profession.
42 57AZ : Arizona doesn't recognize Code 2 (except for funeral escort vehicles). Any emergency response for police, fire or EMS is Code 3. Also, while the Arizo
43 Fr8Mech : Standard practice here. There were 3 railroad crossings in my district.
44 Itsjustme : Are you gauging the importance of a run on the weight of the vehicle responding? That's what it sounds like. If so, you're right but I wouldn't use t
45 Tiger119 : Having worked in both of those fields in public safety, a police car and an ambulance both running emergency lights and sirens, going different direct
46 Fr8mech : In this case, it is procedure that the fire/EMS crews stage until the scene is declared secured bby the police.
47 Aero145 : Yes. And I would use the word important. If I would be in the position of the directing traffic-officer, and I would have time to clear the way for t
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