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Operations In Afghan. Hard Fighting Ongoing  
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5071 times:

I heard the news of Ms. Faucets death headlining this morning and it made me think of the Marines from 2nd MEB who were killed the other day in a IED attack. Sure didn't hear much about them ... of well I will do it.
Heavy fighting is going on there ... our guys are going into the HOT shit everyday . The heat and the hardcore Taliban make it a real nightmare. The President has ordered a surge ... I hope we all remember who the hell has to do the " Surging" . A Surge that I have heard described as being straight into Indian country...Helmand province.. head to head with the Tliban..

2nd MEB , British Black Watch , Along with many many other operators are supporting ... risking and,,, dieing.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldnew...the-frontlines-of-afghanistan.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...or-air-assault-in-Afghanistan.html

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=105470542


You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
133 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5051 times:

OH God now Michael Jackson .... terrible news , but nothing compared to what these guys have to deal with.

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You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7966 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5039 times:

The surge in Iraq went brilliantly. The majority of the fighting has gone down. The heavier fighting in Afghanistan has been going on for a while now, I don't know why the media is just catching on now. God Bless our guys and all the other nation's troops. Hope they can get the job done and get home safely.


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineBMIFlyer From UK - England, joined Feb 2004, 8810 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5039 times:

Some good stuff here from the Brits - Operation 'Panther's Claw'

http://www.army.mod.uk/news/15420.aspx


Well done lads! Big grin



Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24960 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5034 times:

Help for Heroes - tis a cause I donate to regularly, hopefully others in the UK do the same  Smile

The armed forces are the real heroes  Smile



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7966 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5022 times:

Any of you guys in the service yourselves?


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineBMIFlyer From UK - England, joined Feb 2004, 8810 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5023 times:



Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):
Any of you guys in the service yourselves?

Yes, I am - 3 years in the reserves so far. I have served in the middle east, during winter 2008/2009

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 4):
Help for Heroes

Me too, it's a really good cause  Smile

http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/


Lee



Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7966 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4995 times:

Man I should be over there with my unit but they kept me back...  worried  Stay safe B 2/121...


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4970 times:

Why can't the Afgans just settle down and our guys can come home?

These countries are so full of hate, internally and externally.


User currently offlineBMIFlyer From UK - England, joined Feb 2004, 8810 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4954 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 8):
Why can't the Afgans just settle down and our guys can come home?

Ask the Taliban......



Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4924 times:



Quoting Gkirk (Reply 4):
Help for Heroes

Thanks .. were on it.
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You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4833 times:

Operation Khanjar, or "strike of the sword," ... in effect. US Marines and Afghan Army offensive strike into Helmud province. One US Soldier captured by enemy one KIA reported

God speed and good hunting .

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1246...385075.html#mod=article-outset-box

Some good sights to support our troops !

http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/
www.operationshoebox.com
www.woundedwarriorproject.com



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13239 posts, RR: 77
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4788 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 8):
Why can't the Afgans just settle down and our guys can come home?

An understandable view.
However, while the world may have in the past looked the other way, that rather ended as a credible policy after Sept 11th.
Frankly, the social effects of the poppy crop alone is something that has effects well beyond Afghan borders.
And the awful attacks on US Embassies in Africa in 1998, planned from Afghanistan, along with others, was a looming issue anyway.

After the USSR left in 1989, the world indeed looked away when a civil war (with that influence of the Pakistani security services), ripped Afghanistan apart.
Eventually the Taliban gained the upper hand, bad news if you were Afghan and female.
Or anyone with any joy of life in you.

This allowed an escape route for Bin Laden, who was until 1996 in exile in Sudan.
A lawless state with what control there was now in the hands of similar minded extremists, devilishly hard to be found in, let alone captured or killed, Afghanistan was his salvation.
He also had influence there from the war against the USSR.
Whatever we think of the government in Sudan, they would never have allowed Bin Laden to put together anything like Sept 11th from their soil.
Because they know what the response would have been.

Not being a proper government per se, the Taliban were less concerned.
By 1997, Bin Laden felt secure enough in his new home, to actually give a press conference where he announced his intention to assist with terror attacks on the West and western allies, westerners abroad.
He even invited some western journalists to this conference!

Of course, in the middle of all this, are the very long suffering Afghan people.

The large scale US action is very welcome.
Though since 2006, the UK had nearly doubled the size of it's force there, they have, however hard they have fought, simply been stretched too thinly.
Taking ground time and time, but without the manpower, all too often, to hold it.
Of course, I also include here the other nations involved in fighting.

I am currently reading an account of 3 PARA's 2006 Afghan deployment.
They were expecting trouble, but as one said, it was like poking a stick into a wasps nest .
The intensity of the fighting was, and is, staggering at times.

I hope the US solider who is missing, can be rescued.
RIP to the one US and two British servicemen killed in the last 24 hours.

The Taliban can be beaten, as in forced from areas they have influence and being unable to threaten the area again.
It was done in 2001, but the eye was then very seriously taken off the ball.
The were given 4-5 years of breathing space.

The complete solution is not military, that's understood, but any stability for Afghanistan, with the much needed aid and development (which the Taliban fear), can only happen when they are as denuded as a major force as much as possible.
Not the same as total (impossible) eradication.
But Afghanistan, hopefully by then protected by their own forces, could advance even with a rump of a terror group left.
Other nations do.
Not ideal, but not a perfect world we live in.

My own view is if the Taliban lose the ability to hold or seriously influence anywhere in the country, then the fear of them will reduce and they'll be in a downward spiral.
The ultimate key is not, however welcome, more Western troops and firepower, it's with Afghanistan having it's own forces with the numbers, training, proper control, to do the job.
That might be tougher to achieve, but it's the only long term solution.


User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4715 times:

Helo crash yesterday , 2 Canadian and 1 Briton soldiers KIA. Does not say the type of aircraft. Heavy fighting and lots of road side bombs ....


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/08/world/asia/08afghan.html?ref=world



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14127 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4706 times:

The Taliban have also stepped up attacks in the North. Last week three German soldiers got killed by a roadside bomb.
The reason is that this year is a super election year in Germany, culminating in the federal parliament (and government) elections in autumn. The Taliban hope to make the German government withdraw the troops, because the war (it is not even called a war oveer here, but something like "militarily protected development aid") is becoming more and more unpopular due to lack of results.
The German army has quietly changed their rules of engagement and brought more combat troops to Afghanistan though. Up to recently any use of force by a German soldier would have triggered a criminal investigation by a prosecutor, since the Bundeswehr is still officially on peacetime duty, due to the politicians trying to avoid the word war at any cost, mainly to avoid political consequences, like the requirement for a formal declaration of war by the parliament, the change of supreme command of the German forces from the minister of defense to the chancellor, and most important, that as soon as the soldierws are at war, their insurance contracts will be void, so that the government will have to fill the gap out of it´s own coffers.
At least now the German soldiers don´t have to wait anymore until the get actively shot at before being allowed to open fire, instead they can now respond as soon as they notice the signs of an impending attack, they are also much freer to call in air support if they encounter hostile forces.
Up to recently the German soldiers were sitting ducks, who were not allowed to defend themselves poperly, and who were not allowed to go on offensive operations, even at tactical level. The German government treated the Bundeswehr in Afghanistan as if the soldiers were based in a garrison town in Germany.

Jan


User currently offlineWindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2744 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4688 times:



Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
The heavier fighting in Afghanistan has been going on for a while now, I don't know why the media is just catching on now

Will the media ever acknowledge that the surge in Iraq worked? Will Barry who was against the surge in Iraq call what he is doing know a surge? I support him in what he is doing in Afghanistan but I think that by acknowledging the success in the Iraqi surge he could get everyone to rally behind this unlike the partisan garbage we had do deal with from the left in Iraq. The troops of all these nations deserve 100% of the people and governments behind them. That will be required if Iraq and now Afghanistan are to be successful.

One thing that makes me curious though is where is code pink and all of the other leftists who had been given airtime the whole time Bush and Cheney had been in office. Since Barry is in charge have they closed up shop or are they going to march after 10 troops and a number of civilians had been killed in country yesterday? Will they have a body count for Barry like the did Bush?



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4683 times:

I like the change in stragetgy. During the Bush years, we were more worried about killing insurgents, instead of holding on to territory and keeping the civilians safe, and, heaven forbid, protecting the civilians.

This strategey-to not just drive out the Taliban and al Qaeda, but stay in the areas we take back, and work with the local people, is a good one.

The other good news, at least what I heard on FOX News Radio the other day, was that the Pakistan military is on the other side of the border, keeping the insurgents from fleeing Afghanistan, and attacking them if need be.

If this pincer movement works, it could be the beginning of the end of the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan. I won't get my hopes up quite yet, but it's a good sign.

And, who knows? Maybe during this operation, a certain indivdual could be found and brought to justice?

Quoting Windy95 (Reply 15):
Will Barry who was against the surge in Iraq call what he is doing know a surge?

You can't even call him "President Obama" or "Mr. Obama"? Grow up.

Secondly, this isn't a "surge". This is a change in strategy, and a major offensive on a scale not seen there since Fallujah. Driving the insurgents between two forces, and, hopefully annihilating them, while at the same time keeping territoriy gained, I think, is a brilliant strategy by Gen. McChrystal. He deserves all the credit in this case. Much as Petreaus deserved all the credit for the surge working in Iraq. In both cases, to the credit of our last two presidents, they let the Generals to the work, and plan the ROE. They didn't interfere, and both President Bush and President Obama both deserve credit for that.


User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4678 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
, but stay in the areas we take back

Occupation ? Indeed ... This has been done Falcon , but I agree with your assessment we are going to have to be in the market place so to speak. This is very dangerous business , the Taliban operate all in these little towns from what I have read. Its must be a nightmare patrolling in and among them ... you cant tell who is who you just wait to be attacked. It seems we have avoided doing this in Helmand Pr. ... ( I could be wrong) but we are definitely doing it now . We will see if the President stands strong if the casualties start mounting.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
You can't even call him "President Obama" or "Mr. Obama"? Grow up.

Agreed , we should refer to him as President Obama. I give the President credit for working out the overflight option with the Russians this weak as well. Its a good sign .



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineWindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2744 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4672 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
Secondly, this isn't a "surge". This is a change in strategy, and a major offensive on a scale not seen there since Fallujah. Driving the insurgents between two forces, and, hopefully annihilating them, while at the same time keeping territoriy gained,

Was not the surge in Iraq a change of strategy? Are we not sending more troops there and putting more pressure on the Taliban. Sounds like a surge to me. So why is this administration avoiding using this term. Still playing politics and the PR game against Bush.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
They didn't interfere, and both President Bush and President Obama both deserve credit for that.

It is still a little early to give Barry credit for that. I hope at the end of his term that I can give him that credit.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
a certain indivdual could be found and brought to justice?

Are we going into Pakistan??



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20194 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4669 times:

I'm glad that I can finally feel good about a military action we're taking. Any military action is a bad thing, but at least this one is justified and necessary. The Taliban and AQ won't listen to reason or diplomacy and Obama knows that.

What we need is to knock them down enough that we can build a Red Crescent in every town in Afghanistan. And we can vaccinate them, care for them when they are ill, teach them to read, write, and do math. And let them go from there. But where there aren't a ready supply of Angry Young Men who have seen their relatives and loved ones blown to bits, there can be no terrorism.

Stay safe, men and women of the armed forces. Your job over there is an important one. You are the first and biggest step.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4665 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 17):
Occupation ? Indeed ... This has been done Falcon , but I agree with your assessment we are going to have to be in the market place so to speak.

Actually, in Afghanistan, except around Kabul and Fallujah, it hasn't been done in the outer provinces. One reason was manpower shortagers. The fresh troops there can, according to top commanders, be used to help hold the area, and establish good relationships with the locals, to try to legitimately help them and gain their trust.

Quoting Windy95 (Reply 18):
Was not the surge in Iraq a change of strategy?

I honestly didn't see strategy change there. It was adding troops to better carry out the strategy in place, and I have no problem with that. I was one of the first on this board to approve of President Bush's surge policy. But I think it was simply more additional troops than actual change in strategy. It HAS allowed us, now that we're further down the road, to turn over some of the duties to the Iraqi's themselves, and both Bush and Peatrus deserve credit for that. The additional troops did make a huge difference. Let's hope the same is the result in Afghanistan.

Quoting Windy95 (Reply 18):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
a certain indivdual could be found and brought to justice?

Are we going into Pakistan??

President Obama has continued the drone operations in Pakistani territory, has he not? He was correct in keeping that policy, which, coincidentally, I also agreed with President Bush on. It was needed, and has been one of the prods the U.S. has used to tell the Pakistani government "hey, wake up, and defend your own territory, or we'll bomb the insurgents for you." The Pakistanis still have an ongoing offensive in the same region, which is why it could prove to be a noose for the Taliban and al Qaeda.

And whether US forces, Afghan forces or Pakistani forces were to stumble upon this individual, I really don't care. I'd love to get him, try him, then make him a part of the new WTC in New York.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13239 posts, RR: 77
Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4625 times:

Windy95, the trouble is, there are plenty of people, including those who are generally supportive of the Afghan deployment, who are all too aware that the whole Iraq idea, at a crucial time, moved attention away from Afghanistan.

To be brutally frank, NATO troops (and we must never forget-Afghan non combatants too), have paid the price for this in blood, particularly since 2006.
Including from nations much berated by some in the US for not being supportive of the Iraq invasion.

It is quite apparent that this allowed the Taliban to re-group, spreading again their malign influence.
We cannot go back to policy driven by a kind of, it seems, attention deficit disorder.
Or just plain obsession.

Worse, this led to a hemorrhaging of public support, the lies, mistakes, devastation of Iraq has poisoned the well of public opinion, just when it is needed most.
It is very hard to convince otherwise neutral opinion that more troops, more death and injury, is needed in another far away country, after Iraq.

Certainly for the UK, it has put severe strain on both budgets and the actual military.
And for a nation that has only had 1968, since WW2, without a military deployment covering all spectrum's, that's a real problem.
What of those who are contributing troops and taking casualties, but unused to such a tempo of military operations so frequently.

I don't want to delve into US politics, but the change last November has probably for a time at least, bolstered public support a bit.
Since the previous administration, was in the eyes of many from the contributing nations, discredited.
More of the same, would have hemorrhaged support even more.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4595 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
President Obama has continued the drone operations in Pakistani territory, has he not? He was correct in keeping that policy, which, coincidentally, I also agreed with President Bush on. It was needed, and has been one of the prods the U.S. has used to tell the Pakistani government "hey, wake up, and defend your own territory, or we'll bomb the insurgents for you." The Pakistanis still have an ongoing offensive in the same region, which is why it could prove to be a noose for the Taliban and al Qaeda.

Maybe the Pak govt should allow US troops into the NWFP...The Ground war is the only solution but by a strong force.
regds
MEL.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4562 times:

Michael Yon is heading into combat again , which is good if you want to know the real deal going on in Afghanistan . He does not pull punches , and he says " We are losing" . This is not political ..he said the same thing during the Bush administration. For straight up front reporting this guy has it ..real and hard. Interesting stuff on his sight about his recent embed with special forces in the Philippines ... check it out.

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13239 posts, RR: 77
Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4552 times:

I concur that Mr Yon is well worth a look.

The new British Defence Secretary was interviewed on the breakfast news, I actually felt a bit sorry for him, the interview was not hostile per se, but I thought if I was him, I'd want to stand up and shout look, this is a WAR! War is death, destruction, you've not always got everything you want kit wise. Remember what the casualties were like in the early, worse years of Northern Ireland in the early 70's. Imagine if you'd have had the cameras and satellite gear for your reporters that you have now, for the bloody fighting in the Falklands!

However, there is a real problem with the government. Three Defence Secretaries in as many years. A PM who has a serious problem making decisions. He has sent 800 more for the Afghan elections, but a request from the Chiefs Of Staff wanted 2000 more there full time was turned down.
Probably for short term political reasons.
We need as a country, to start thinking deeper about war.
We are there, we cannot just pull out, but leadership comes from the top.

For all that, I think we can only really judge where we are once the full complement of US troops is in theater and operational.
When the Afghan elections are done.


25 AGM100 : Agree with that ... its amazing how the tone has changed. Although I agree we need to kill Taliban ... what we really need is serious " Civil " suppo
26 Post contains links BMIFlyer : Things are not going well for the British..... We have lost 8 soldiers in the past 24hrs / 15 in the past 10 days We have reached a new "milestone" no
27 DeltaMD90 : Pardon my language, but I think I trust real US soldiers over this douche. We are making great progress and a difference in their lives (this isn't h
28 AGM100 : If you take the time to read Yon..he basically agrees with you. The Military is winning and wins every engagement they are involved in. He has high r
29 GDB : To be fair to Yon, he's ex US forces, has spent a lot of time in these combat zones, allowing a far more in depth reporting style than the usual media
30 MD11Engineer : I´ve read on the BBC website that lately there has been a major attitude change in Pakistan towards the Taliban. Apparently before the Taliban were c
31 11Bravo : That is because in Vietnam military force was not the decisive factor. I think that same conclusion applies to Iraq and Afghanistan as well. Military
32 DeltaMD90 : Pardon me, I misunderstood apparently. I do admit I am guilty of skimming the surface of topics sometimes. In this case I guess he does have more cre
33 HAWK21M : I guess the ISI finally realised that the tiger they groomed is now turning to be a man eater.Its not about India's or the World's terrorists,but abo
34 AGM100 : Don't want to argue it ... but it sure must help to be able to use Iraq as a support post for troops in the theater. What would the war in Afghanista
35 Connies4ever : Helo was a CH-146 Griffon (militarised Bell 412EP). Was a decent-enough a/c when bought in 1995, but in the Afghan environment, with big heat and alt
36 GDB : This is not the case with Brown, he never opposed the war in Iraq, the political dynamic here is very different. The war in Iraq was much, much more
37 AGM100 : My error , you are correct . Yes it is ... it is a signal that the government is not committed wholly to either the effort ..or is at odds with the c
38 GDB : With the choppers, it has long been the case, so they are playing catch up. Recently, six former Danish Merlins have been added to the RAF, the scanda
39 Post contains images AGM100 : Well Helicopters are nice to have , but just like soldiers have always done .. its allot of walking and allot of heavy loads . This Marine definitely
40 GDB : Indeed, after 3 Chinooks and some Wessex were lost on the [i] Atlantic Conveyor in 1982, much of the British ground forces walked across East Falkland
41 MD11Engineer : IIRC the usual tactic was to fly a platoon or a section of infantry from a fortified base to some field in the border counties, upon which they would
42 AGM100 : The Britsh will be out soon , or at least winding down combat ops . I believe that this "surge" will be sorta of a last ditch type of operation for t
43 GDB : I don't think, despite the politics, the British will be out soon at all. It's one thing for opposition politicians to say this or that, but once in p
44 LMP737 : Groups like the Taliban in the end show what they really are. A collection of poorly educated sadists. You figure they would have learned the lesson
45 Andz : Sky News is covering the funeral procession live of the 8 servicemen killed within 24 hours last week. Pretty emotional stuff. RIP.
46 LMP737 : I've always been fascinated by that aspect of the British military and it's relationship with the elected leaders of Britain. Allegiance is sworn to
47 Michlis : I read a great briefing on this (open source) and it basically said the same thing. But they are smart enough to know how to use our culture/media/pu
48 Baroque : All true and all the more to worry that after 8 years they are far from defeated. Either they have a bit more going for them than we tend to assume,
49 AGM100 : GDB , I agree .. "Out" is different than "out" I guess. But I believe that this will be the last major offensive that we see. And I hope that it is t
50 Michlis : Agree and disagree. The IED is a psyops weapon. It is meant to inflict casualties to provoke a greater political response: inflict enough casualties
51 Post contains links BMIFlyer : The 8 soldiers killed recently returned home today. Literally Thousands of people lined the streets of Wootton Bassett (Near LYE) to "welcome" them ho
52 GDB : AGM100, I just think it's way too early to judge an administration 6 months in. A lot of political capital, as well as the actual resources, is being
53 LMP737 : Thanks for info on the subject. It would have to be a rather flagrant act by a PM to get a monarch to act. One has to wonder what would happen if the
54 Post contains links AGM100 : Another good article by Yon ,, some good pics and dirty details . British forces going into opium country . Hard fighting in the enemies back yard ...
55 GDB : Thanks for the Micheal Yon link, AGM. He's a terrific photographer too.
56 Post contains links AGM100 : http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...itain-us-talks-taliban-afghanistan Sort of taking on a Vietnam style ..stick and carrot ... feel to it now. B-5
57 GDB : Or it could potentially split the Taliban, you are not going to kill all of them. They are also far from a single unified bloc, some are Taliban out o
58 AGM100 : It could and I hope that you are right GDB . You make a good case for your argument , I guess time will tell.
59 Post contains links GDB : Another superb dispatch from Yon; http://www.michaelyon-online.com/night-into-day.htm Interesting that British female soldiers are going out on infant
60 AGM100 : Yes , read that last night . He is damn good at his Job , Interesting the B1-B operating for close air support ... I flew to Ireland last month seated
61 GDB : I hope the thought that, in their twisted view, mere women have been killing Taliban, and not just from the controls of a jet or helicopter either, re
62 AGM100 : The young lady in Yons article does not look like someone I would mess with. She appears quite capable of arranging a meeting with Al-ah for any of t
63 Post contains links and images AGM100 : Operation Eastern Resolve II ..ongoing . Appears to be heavy fighting going on today . 3rd Marine Division ... 2nd BAT . http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20
64 AGM100 : You know its a real nice day today .... beautiful . I had a nice swim , and had coffee on the back porch .. but I was thinking of these guys again . I
65 Baroque : Care to share with us exactly what that means to you? And how such an article is of assistance in obtaining the solution in Afghanistan that you allu
66 AGM100 : There is a immense human story being told in Afghanistan ..... one that as we go about are normal day most of just miss and or ignore. I just spent t
67 HAWK21M : Why Slim chance......Get the ground troops [NATO troops] on both sides........NWFP & Afghanistan south......Surround the Taliban.Get supporting count
68 Baroque : Then why not go with the Hidden General and look for other solutions that have a greater chance of success than the tactic you appeared to be lauding
69 AGM100 : Firstly I try not to Laud a solution .... I am more in tune with our people who are there doing the tough duty. Its above my pay grade to figure out
70 Post contains links Baroque : I am not sure defeated is the word I would chose as it might well be so easy to demonstrate that this has not happened. But we can perhaps agree with
71 AirTran737 : I was at Bagram Air Base three days ago and we broke down. As we were fixing the plane it was easy to notice the fact that a lot of F-15's left fully
72 AGM100 : Crazy, idealistically speaking .... oppression of the people , killing in the name of , ruling with violent intent and crushing the progress of the p
73 Post contains links Baroque : The problem comes when because we think they are crazy, we also think - party by defintion of the word crazy - that they are also ineffective. If lac
74 AGM100 : I get it ... but I am talking about at the ground level ,not the policy maker level. Of course our policy makers can not just write them off as crazy
75 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : It really bums me to see that our people are being killed for Afghanistan. How would you like seeing your son or daughter returned to you from this A
76 AGM100 : Not to good .. especially for a war that we appear to be losing. It is hard on the families to believe that it is hopeless. Now fortunately the press
77 HAWK21M : The local population living under the fear of a gun.....& you want them to oppose that gun....Its the fault of the rulers not the local population wh
78 Post contains links QANTAS077 : yeah...they do, but look at who Karzai has teamed up with, this is NO recipe for democracy...the Afghan people deserve better than warlords, women ha
79 AGM100 : You guys are all smarter then me ,... I sure as hell don't know the answer to Afghanistan. All I know is that we all have young men and women in there
80 Baroque : Now we are getting somewhere, there REALLY IS a problem. Nobody knows the answer, but whatever it could be, it plainly is not what has been happening
81 AGM100 : Yes there is and I guess no one does know. So I say we let them go back to there lives and move along. We have already tried for the past 50 years to
82 Post contains links Oly720man : Some light background reading. It's from a 10 year old book, but some of the various protagonists are still around and I expect that one main issue re
83 Post contains links Baroque : I will try and get to that tomorrow. Meanwhile Lateline here tonight had close to a spat between the Aus interviewer Tony Jones and a UK ambassador o
84 AGM100 : Like my Dad said ... when you are eating from a steel helmet and wiping your ass with dirt .. none of that matters. I don't trust any of those fools
85 Baroque : It probably changes from war to war. Mine thought behind the lines was quite important, he seldom would talk about the lines themselves. Then again f
86 AGM100 : It most certainly would ... it is incomprehensible how the men in that size of conflict dealt with it. 1.5 Million casualties ... ? Had to be the "wa
87 Baroque : That is what the medal says! Rather forlorn in this century, is it not?
88 AGM100 : I was once talking with a wounded vet ( OIF 2005 ) at the Tucson Va . We were talking war and famous battles ... Flanders , Somme , Verdun , Africa 4
89 Post contains links AGM100 : The outcome and effects of the election aside .... the future ramifications of it aside ... the negatives and positives aside. There was a very tough
90 Post contains links Oly720man : Interesting video on BBC Newsnight last night from one of their reporters embedded with US Marines in Helmand showing the day to day activities. http:
91 HAWK21M : Not to mention the number of sleepless nights & nightmares for years after the war is over. regds MEL.
92 Post contains links BMIFlyer : Nice to see that these assholes haven't been forgotten...... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/8215460.stm
93 Post contains links AGM100 : Is this a big deal in the UK ? Seems like the papers have caught on it ! Hey anything that reminds us that our own are in the heat and the fight today
94 GDB : Well The Sun is hardly a reputable source, as for is it a big issue? Yes. But. What the media do not report, is the context. The idea that the troops
95 Post contains links Baroque : How about the thoughts of an RHM of Petraeus? This one is a whopper at 24.7 megs and runs for near an hour less the station ID and breaks. http://www
96 AGM100 : Our people are certainly facing a insurgency of the worst kind. A insurgency with no clear objective other than to demoralize ...not the invading for
97 Baroque : That link I posted is worth a hour of your time AGM. It is all part of the accidental guerrilla effect. We bash in and immediately the less foreign a
98 GDB : I don't disagree substantially with the programme, other than the idea of the 'no more conventional conflicts' idea, history teaches us otherwise. Loo
99 NAV20 : SO bloody true, AGM100. The pollies nowadays have no idea what it takes to win a war. My father was called up into a rifle regiment in 1917, at age 1
100 Baroque : I think their argument goes a bit beyond that. They are pointing out that given the formidable nature of especially the US armed forces, opponents ar
101 GDB : Certainly more asymmetrical warfare is and will increasingly become more the norm. Point taken on the overwhelming power of the US, which will remain
102 HAWK21M : A presumtion..... what occurs when US/Allied Ground troops fighting Taliban in the South of Afghanistan retreat back into NWFP.Do the Allies cross int
103 Baroque : But I would love to see a position paper on how when and where to deploy our brand new second hand battle tanks. Reminds me of when they tried to dep
104 GDB : The RAN has amphibious transports. It's not just about 'deploying tanks', it's about retaining a core capability in vital areas. I just don't trust th
105 Baroque : Not something that you should complain in relation to Kilkullen dare I suggest. Would you support BA buying a bunch of hangar queens? Would you care
106 GDB : The surprise that the odd M1 was disabled by a massive IED, just demonstrates that tanks, no matter how good, are at heart as invulnerable as Bismark
107 Post contains links AGM100 : Yes and direct fire support for teams operating in the cities as well. I am sure there are many many troopers who are more than happy to have MBT on
108 LMP737 : That book would'nt happen to be Sniper One would it? If so I finished it a couple months ago, a very gripping story.
109 GDB : It was. And at the time, as well as the whole eruption by the Mahdi Army in the South at the time, it was hardly covered in any of the media at the t
110 QANTAS077 : its about being informed, knowledge is power, surely you've heard of that saying?
111 AGM100 : History does not give a clear answer to Afghanistan. No clear answer that makes the decision we have in front of us a easy one. Should we stay or sho
112 QANTAS077 : simple answer, NO... the enemy previous US govt's helped cultivate, Taliban and Pakistan intel service are one and same, you're never going to win a
113 AGM100 : Ya we noticed .... we saw there version of a Saturday football game at the stadium... except they used AK47's and the players usually didn't play aga
114 HAWK21M : Revenge can be a big motivator,if it does not cause one to loose control of the situation. True.When you have countries that support these terrorist
115 AGM100 : Yes it is ....but like GDB says we have faced worse and most wars are tough. We have absolutely the best trained , best equipped and toughest fightin
116 Post contains links AGM100 : http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/world/ap/57145412.html Lance Crpl Bernard's father spoke on a talk show I heard on Saturday. Mr.Bernard ( A retired
117 QANTAS077 : you see, its this type of thinking that is causing problems, the Taliban are a small problem, but get out among the population and they aren't the pr
118 Aaron747 : Precisely - you've got billions in revenues from poppy exports, thugs and politicians' friends who run the whole operation with advanced irrigation,
119 AGM100 : Solution , eradicate the customers of the heroin trade. Execute immediately anyone in the west caught with heroin . Users should be eradicated .... h
120 Baroque : Where are the agronomists? I think that substitution is not that easy in terms of agronomy. The poppies grow early and need little water after the wi
121 MD11Engineer : Better solution (and cheaper): By the junk up at the source (directly from the poppy farmers), so that they can feed their families. Then, at the sam
122 AGM100 : ok ., will the EU and coalition participate ? Or does the funding come from the hope and change depository ? We should do this any way .... find them
123 Baroque : The really sad bit is by and large a lot of them are eating food aid, probably in large part from the USofA. Now don't ask me to tell you why it migh
124 DocLightning : We essentially tried that for a while. Didn't work because new users keep popping up. I have a far better idea. Legalize it. The prices will drop lik
125 Baroque : Yes a propos of nothing in particular, one of our police forces suddenly volunteered the information that somewhere north of 70% of their time and ex
126 AGM100 : Good idea ... A great idea , I believe it is time to do it. If we lose a few million weak addicts from OD and abuse .. I guess that is the way of lif
127 Baroque : Don't be too depressed about State on this. It IS clear that they know there is a problem. That problem has been there for what, 8 years, but unrecog
128 MD11Engineer : I´d be fully for it, but I don´t know what our governments will do. They´d probably rather spend the tax money on stuff that will gain them short
129 Baroque : It is probably not well known, but in Tasmania we have a thriving poppy industry. Back in about the 60s we had a hell of a job getting it past the US
130 Post contains links QANTAS077 : yep, its a special kind of democracy this one. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/09/11/2682620.htm
131 Post contains links AGM100 : The last I heard the coalition lost nearly 12 soldiers this week , another week of heavy fighting and dangerous patrols. Some reports on the heavy fig
132 HAWK21M : Only Ground troops entering the NWFP can tackle the terrorists there. regds MEL.
133 STT757 : There was a New York Times article recently on how demoralized Al Qaeda is because of their leadership and experienced operatives getting knocked off
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