Tiger119 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1919 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2469 times:
I have always wondered about this and I am pretty sure I know the answer, but I am going to ask anyway. The "Big Four" major sports in the U.S. are baseball, basketball, football and hockey (MLB, NBA, NFL and NHL). Some people would argue that motor racing ranks right up there and they may be correct although my question is about the officiating crews and I even know that it's the same officials at every track every weekend. MLB has four umpires at every game (unless one gets injured and then they ump with just the one behind the catcher and two on the bases). The exception to that one is during the playoffs when they add an ump down each line. NBA has three refs per game. NHL has a ref and two linesmen. NFL has who knows how many per game. Now all that for the question. Due these crews work together all the time or do they mix them up during the season? And another question. Are NBA, NHL and MLB officials full time employees of their leagues? I don't think NFL officials are full time.
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
OffshoreAir From United States of America, joined May 2009, 177 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2455 times:
Quoting Tiger119 (Thread starter): Due these crews work together all the time or do they mix them up during the season?
If I remember correctly, in college the crews do stick together. It is usually something like SEC ref's go and ref a Big10 game, PAC10 ref's go and ref an ACC game, and so on, but usually, (again, if I remember correctly) they stick together for a season?
Quoting Tiger119 (Thread starter): And another question. Are NBA, NHL and MLB officials full time employees of their leagues? I don't think NFL officials are full time.
I am not sure of the answer here, but I would think with their pay, putting in a full sports season of reffing one of these sports pays enough for them to have a very comfortable living and not have to work during the off-season. From what I hear, NFL ref's get paid significantly more, but then again, they only ref 16 games as opposed to the season of the MLB or NHL. I would hazard a guess that a veteran MLB coach pushes $200K per season.
Us330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3769 posts, RR: 14 Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2450 times:
NHL now has two refs and two linesmen per game.
During the regular season, they mix it up, just to ensure that everybody is on their game and nobody develops any bad or lax habits.
In the playoffs, the roster of refs and linesmen shorten dramatically. By the time you get to the Stanley Cup Finals, four refs and four linesmen are selected to work the finals, and the group scheduled to work varies game to game.
FlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 6323 posts, RR: 6 Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2436 times:
I know for sure that NBA refs mix it up throughout the season. I dont know much about NHL refs and I never really noticed much about NFL refs. But NBA and MLB refs do get paid a decent amount and thats really there full time job. MLB work really hard though and their season is LONG. But I have heard the older guys do make more than $200,000 I would imagine it be the same for NBA too. Its not an easy job and they travel and are away from home a lot but it seems like a very cool job and the pay and benefits are great. But in pro sports I dont see how they would ever let the same refs referee every game together just would not make sense.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
Elite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2762 posts, RR: 10 Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2435 times:
The NBA referees are rotated around (in random order, I believe) during the regular season, but there is some sort of seniority order during the playoffs.
And refs are paid pretty decently, yet a lot of NBA refs are bastards... who can't tell a flop when everyone else can, who ejects people for laughing, who have bad attitude, and worst of all rigging games! As a huge NBA fan this is one of the worst aspects of this great game.
OffshoreAir From United States of America, joined May 2009, 177 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2427 times:
Quoting Elite (Reply 4): And refs are paid pretty decently, yet a lot of NBA refs are bastards... who can't tell a flop when everyone else can, who ejects people for laughing, who have bad attitude, and worst of all rigging games!
When has this happened recently?
Rigging games? Come on, we aren't in grade school anymore.
OffshoreAir From United States of America, joined May 2009, 177 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2415 times:
Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 6): Exactly. It happens...all the time. Time to wake up.
OffshoreAir From United States of America, joined May 2009, 177 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2378 times:
FlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 6323 posts, RR: 6 Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2361 times:
Quoting Elite (Reply 4): And refs are paid pretty decently, yet a lot of NBA refs are bastards... who can't tell a flop when everyone else can, who ejects people for laughing, who have bad attitude, and worst of all rigging games! As a huge NBA fan this is one of the worst aspects of this great game.
Well I don't know about rigging games but NBA is not longer the sport it used to be. I am a NBA fan it is my favorite sport to watch, play etc.. But the NBA seems like its for little 5 year old girls now. Way too many fouls. Basketball should be a semi-contact sport. Gone are the good days of Alonzo Mourning and Patrick Ewing, Scottie Pippin and Karl Malone those where basketball players. Dont get me wrong Dwayne Wade, Lebron, Kobe etc.. are GREAT but just too many fouls! Let them play, let the big men be a little physical.
Quoting OffshoreAir (Reply 9): Ok, Tim Donaghy was a pretty messed up sitatuion, as well as the Tim Duncan thing, but two instances hardly make a trend.
Flopping is a huge problem in this league! I HATE it, all the fake fouls and so many of the international players flop even more than others. Guess they are just used to seeing in while watching soccer (football) when they were growing up
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
Corocks From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1200 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2350 times:
This is not at all official given the source, but here is a list from 2005:
RGElectra80 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 358 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2344 times:
Quoting Corocks (Reply 11): Pretty surprised at how low the NFL salary is.
That's actually quite a nice lump of cash for the amount of work. Even if you factor in the fact they probably have meetings or have to review tapes and rulebooks, that can't possibly add up to more than a couple of months of work a year, tops. Unless you're Ed Hochuli, then you are working on your biceps all year long.
Feel free to check out my Flight Diary: flightdiary.net/alenart
FlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 6323 posts, RR: 6 Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2328 times:
Quoting Corocks (Reply 11): Pretty surprised at how low the NFL salary is.
Sounds great to me to only work lets say July-Febuary if they have meetings a month before and after the season. And than one day a week of 'real' work.
As for NBA, NHL, MLB they earn their money as long as they are good.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
Jfk69 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1386 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2316 times:
I will touch in a few answers which have been answered already.
The NFL refs are part time. They all work or have businesses and treat this more as a paid hobby.
The NHL has 2 refs and 2 linesman a game which are rotated throughout the season, until playoff time when you basically become a crew and work a series.
I spoke to a friend of mine who works for the NHL and he said they refs make anywhere from $115k -$250k with bonuses for playoff work. Linesman make a little bit less but not signifigant.
DeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8774 posts, RR: 12 Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2310 times:
MLB, NFL and NCAA Football crews stick together for the season.
NCAA Basketball refs change around all the time - they're considered contract workers and bounce around between several leagues and do as many games as they want/can.
Srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16896 posts, RR: 51 Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2305 times:
Quoting Jfk69 (Reply 15):
The NHL has 2 refs and 2 linesman a game which are rotated throughout the season, until playoff time when you basically become a crew and work a series.
And the playoff refs are determined by how good of a job they did over the course of the season. This explains why Mick McGeough only ever officiated 63 post-season games and only one Stanley Cup Finals. Thank goodness he retired after the '07-08 season.
FlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 6323 posts, RR: 6 Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2305 times:
Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 16): NCAA Basketball refs change around all the time - they're considered contract workers and bounce around between several leagues and do as many games as they want/can.
I noticed that and for the biggest leagues I hate this they just dont seem as professional as other referees and IMO are no where near as good.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
RFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6189 posts, RR: 25 Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2302 times:
Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 18): I noticed that and for the biggest leagues I hate this they just dont seem as professional as other referees and IMO are no where near as good
Being a top level ref is a lot like trying to be a top level player. Most ref's start out with near volunteer level local games and progress when their skill or experience or talent show. It also takes a lot of drive and focus on that career to make the 'big leagues'.
A lot of folks never get out of A or AA level, or lower.
But like coaches, there are many folks who prefer working at the college level to the pro level.
Quoting Tiger119 (Thread starter): motor racing ranks right up there and they may be correct although my question is about the officiating crews and I even know that it's the same officials at every track every weekend.
Most of the folks you see in major auto racing circuits are part-timers. Some can work only a few races, some work a lot. Yes, all the major groups have a small core of professional staff who make the really important decisions.
The big difference between the 'big four' sports and auto racing, in the US or in other nations, is that auto racing is officiated by the owners of the sanctioning body. Not by 'independent' officials.
No matter what happens, the NBA commissioner cannot change a call in the middle of a game, but the President of NASCAR can change a call in the middle of a race.
Elite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2762 posts, RR: 10 Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2283 times:
Quoting OffshoreAir (Reply 9): Ok, Tim Donaghy was a pretty messed up sitatuion, as well as the Tim Duncan thing, but two instances hardly make a trend.
Tim Donaghy also insisted other referees were in on it, especially during the controversial 2002 Western Conference Finals between the Sacramento Kings and the Los Angeles Lakers. However, it was never proven. And there have been a lot of instances like that, I just didn't dig them out yet.
Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 10): NBA is not longer the sport it used to be.
The NBA has become so soft, and players like Tony Parker and Bruce Bowen and Robert Horry (all San Antonio Spurs players...) are known for their flopping and cheap shots. Sure, players now are bigger, buffer, and stronger than ever, but they couldn't take half of what Michael Jordan took from the Bad Boys. No way. LeBron would probably cry. Kobe would retire.
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 26 Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2259 times:
Quoting Tiger119 (Thread starter): MLB has four umpires at every game (unless one gets injured and then they ump with just the one behind the catcher and two on the bases). The exception to that one is during the playoffs when they add an ump down each line.
Don't forget the ASG gets the same amount of umpires as the playoffs from both sides of the league, and based on seniority, I believe.
Quoting Tiger119 (Thread starter): Due these crews work together all the time or do they mix them up during the season?
I know the MLB crews do.
Quoting Elite (Reply 8): ....ejecting Tim Duncan for laughing....
The exact same thing happened to Raja Bell in 2008 between the Suns and Nuggets in Denver on April 1, 2008.....but it was by a different ref.
Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 16): NCAA Football crews stick together for the season.
I didn't know that. How do they do this for the non-conference games? Are the refs from the home team's conference or are they mixed up?
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
RFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6189 posts, RR: 25 Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2248 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 22): How do they do this for the non-conference games? Are the refs from the home team's conference or are they mixed up?
It depends upon the game and teams involved. The officiating crew used is part of the contract negotiations between the two teams when non-conference games are scheduled.
Unlike pro games where teams have to play a schedule set by one group, NCAA non-conference games only occur when the two teams agree to play and negotiate a contract for the game which often includes revenue splits and always includes officiating.
Sometimes it is a home team conference, if the two teams are expected to be in a position for a major title / bowl - they will often select a crew from a third conference.
Garnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5251 posts, RR: 55 Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2240 times:
Quoting YooYoo (Reply 20): Really!!?....oh wow, we should have a party!!
We should, but this season also saw the end of the line for Kerry Frasier and Bill McCreary. Lots of refs with a ton of experience have retired in the last few years and their replacements, fresh up from the AHL, face a steep learning curve. I think I heard that this is some of the worst churn in the NHL in quite some time.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
25 Srbmod: I do remember yelling myself hoarse at a Thrashers game several years back because of McGeough...... Of course one of my favorite things to yell out
26 AirframeAS: That make sense, I didn't know that. I do know the rules are a little bit different between the conferences, if a crew from a third conference comes
27 Tiger119: - Does he or she have that much power to control the outcome of a race? What about F1? Does Bernie (sp) have that control? I would ask about Tony Geo
29 RFields5421: NASCAR, Yes, but Mike Helton and Brian France are also very aware of the need to be fair to all teams. Two incidents I can think of recently. During
30 Smcmac32msn: MLB gets a 7 week on, 1 week off schedule as of this year. We've seen a bunch of minor league umps up for a series or two with different crews so far
31 Tiger119: - Indianapolis has a Triple A baseball team (I think they are affiliated with The Milwaukee Brewers) and their games during the regular season usuall
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1919 posts, 
From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2762 posts, 
From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 6055 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
