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Will America Suffer A "Jobless" Recovery Crisis?  
User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2510 times:

"The current jobs crisis is in part a reflection of the misplaced priorities of previous administrations, which let America's manufacturing sector decline vis-a-vis our services economy. As a result, manufacturing industries now represent just 11.5 percent of GDP; the number of people working in manufacturing accounts for only 8.7 percent of the jobs in the country; and we have run an average trade deficit in manufactured goods of more than $500 billion over the past five years, all of which contributed to the huge buildup of US debt in recent years.

This almost complete neglect of our manufacturing base relative to our service sector represents the height of irresponsibility, because compared with those in manufacturing, service jobs pay below median wages, do very little to help America's balance of trade, have a much smaller multiplier effect on other parts of the economy and mostly just move incomes around the country."

Source: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090713/hindery_gerard

I happen to completely agree with this statement. Germany, Japan and South Korea are doing everything they can to preserve their manufacturing base during this "depression". And China, is aggressively accelerating its efforts to grow its manufacturing sector. Outside of the automotive sector, the U.S. government has focused on preserving the financial services industy - Wall Street versus Main Street???


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
91 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2497 times:



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
"The current jobs crisis is in part a reflection of the misplaced priorities of previous administrations, which let America's manufacturing sector decline vis-a-vis our services economy.

Which seems to get lost in all of this. This crisis has some if it's roots 30 years back. We've let manufacturing leave our shores. In part to government indifference; part to bad management; and part to high labor costs.

But it all could have been avoided, with some foresight-something American government, business, labor, and people in general are terrible at practicing.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15493 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2487 times:

Was there this same panic when people started leaving farms for jobs in the factories? What if this isn't necessarily bad, and we are just moving on as a people and an economy? If it costs too much, then it has to go overseas. It is simply next to impossible to make an economic case for keeping all of the manufacturing in the country.

If I were a business owner or executive, am I really supposed to hurt my bottom line, have an unnecessarily high cost for my product, and be less competitive just so I can have the image of being some sort of true American patriot?



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2482 times:

BMI, but ask yourself this: can a nation, the size of this, with the resources we've had, survive on just a service economy? I don't know if we can. A nation has to make SOMETHING of wealth, I believe, for it to survive economically. If you don't have anything to export, and have to import almost everything, I just can't see it working.

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15493 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2479 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
BMI, but ask yourself this: can a nation, the size of this, with the resources we've had, survive on just a service economy?

In another time the answer would be a definite no, but the information age changes everything. It would be nice to be able to make everything here, but the fact is that a Mexican doorknob can be every bit as good as an American doorknob but half the price.

America's future economy lies in innovation. We need to always be on top of the next big thing. Manufacturing mundane everyday things is not that important. America needs to worry about inventing and manufacturing high tech items rather than obsessing over the latest closure of a shoe factory.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9112 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2462 times:



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
This almost complete neglect of our manufacturing base relative to our service sector represents the height of irresponsibility, because compared with those in manufacturing, service jobs pay below median wages, do very little to help America's balance of trade, have a much smaller multiplier effect on other parts of the economy and mostly just move incomes around the country."

Shoot... I remember learning about how this country ruled everything. Every gadget or gizmo from the hammer to the airplane was made here. I do agree that manufacturing jobs have essentially bottomed out and hurt us, but I also think that the new thing now lies with technology, communication, etc. I agree with BMI in that we have to be intuitive in order to stay afloat. Given our main focuses now in this economy, we need to stay on top of the competition by promoting jobs in the technical fields especially (microchips, robotics, electronics, etc)



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8711 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2449 times:

BS. The unemployment rate doesn't double in little over a year because of the reasons stated. Unemployment is rising because our government is now in the hands of a single party with a radical agenda. They have declared that they are going to make huge changes in taxation and government programs of all sorts, but have not been able to state precisely what. Businesses, particularly small businesses are afraid. They have no interest in investing in new equipment or hiring new employees - they are simply concentrating on staying in business and keeping as much as they can in reserve.

This administration has done NOTHING to encourgage businesses to hire people. The only sector which is growing is the unproductive government sector, without whose growth the unemployment rate would be over 10% already.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2445 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
Unemployment is rising because our government is now in the hands of a single party with a radical agenda.

BS.
This economic decline started over a year ago when Cheney & Bush were at the helm.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
This administration has done NOTHING to encourgage businesses to hire people.

Dubya, Clinton, Papa Bush & Reagan has done NOTHING to encourage businesses to hire people. Save is your partisan rhetoric.


Down with NAFTA
Stop the out sourcing of America!



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2444 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
Unemployment is rising because our government is now in the hands of a single party with a radical agenda.

 rotfl   rotfl 

Didn't hear you complaining about that between '01 and '06, Charles. Single party, with a radical agenda.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
This administration has done NOTHING to encourgage businesses to hire people.

I thougth the government wasn't supposed to get involved, Charles? Or, do you simply mean that they're not giving big business and the wealthy huge tax breaks like Bush did?

We tried that-look where it got us.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15493 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2439 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
This economic decline started over a year ago when Cheney & Bush were at the helm.

Except that this is a (mostly) free market economy where no one is "at the helm." The only people who exercise ultimate control are consumers.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8):
I thougth the government wasn't supposed to get involved, Charles?

They aren't, and they shouldn't. This is part of the business cycle, and things will turn around. Until then, we should reach for the future rather than try to hold on to the past.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2439 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 9):
Except that this is a (mostly) free market economy where no one is "at the helm." The only people who exercise ultimate control are consumers.

Didn't you get the memo?
The Democrats are responsible for everything bad.
LOL!  rotfl 



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15493 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2433 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
The Democrats are responsible for everything bad.

Huh? I thought it was all because of those damn Libertarians.  confused   duck 



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineQXatFAT From Israel, joined Feb 2006, 2404 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2432 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 1):
Which seems to get lost in all of this. This crisis has some if it's roots 30 years back. We've let manufacturing leave our shores. In part to government indifference; part to bad management; and part to high labor costs.

 checkmark  In my opinion, unions have really killed America. They do help the worker, but they also really kill us sometimes when we are in a crunch and they still want more more more.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
Unemployment is rising because our government is now in the hands of a single party with a radical agenda. They have declared that they are going to make huge changes in taxation and government programs of all sorts, but have not been able to state precisely what. Businesses, particularly small businesses are afraid. They have no interest in investing in new equipment or hiring new employees - they are simply concentrating on staying in business and keeping as much as they can in reserve.



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
The only sector which is growing is the unproductive government sector, without whose growth the unemployment rate would be over 10% already.

The current Administration does want to creat jobs but only really in the government sector. When you creat those jobs, sure its helping someone out BUT, all the rest of the Americans have to pay for that job with taxes! It does no good to creat government jobs that cause higher taxes. It doesnt help anything out. Jobs have to come from the private sector in order for a recession to end.

My state for one really sucks! We now have 52% of our jobs being in the government side with only 48% being from the private sector. Dont you think something in wrong there? And we in California wonder why we are in the crapper? California's jobless rate will continue to rise with no water, more government jobs that cause tax increases (not just income tax but taxing everything under the sun), and causing buisnesses to move out of state. I believe that the Toyota Prius plant has actually moved out of state because now it is cheaper to manufacture them in a different state and have them shipped to California than it is to manufacture them here! Then we have farmers who want to move out of California because Prop 2 passed and they only way to get around making bigger coops for chickens is to move to Nevada. We lose farm jobs and small buisnesses. That is what keeps a state and country afloat.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
Stop the out sourcing of America!

Couldnt agree more Superfly!

I think that America will reach well over the 10% mark.



Don't Tread On Me!
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18704 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2430 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
BS. The unemployment rate doesn't double in little over a year because of the reasons stated. Unemployment is rising because our government is now in the hands of a single party with a radical agenda.

Unemployment was on its way to where it was well before this administration.


User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2418 times:

I have to agree that government shares a large part of the blame. Rather than encourage business this country has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world. Government lays down regulations that ought to be common sense but then cost businesses money to have to adhere to them to the letter. The EPA demands that any kind of manufacturing industry fill out reams of paperwork and spend countless funds ensuring that the smallest regulation is adhered too. Is it a wonder then that businesses look across our borders and see other lands where government is not have way up their asses and the rest of the way down their throats with regulations and laws that cost money. Money that not only means bigger profits but more R&D for new innovative products.

In addition, Unions, as stated stopped working for the benefit of their members years ago and started looking out for themselves.

Business leaders are to blame for laying down and not speaking out plainly about what excessive taxing and regulation as well as excessive union demands were going to cost the country since there are other places in the world to set up shop.

Lawyers are to blame for bringing countless frivolous lawsuits that make business leaders look for more inviting shores to operate in.

There's plenty of blame to go around.

Until all three can somehow find a way to work together then small businesses are the only businesses that will offer recovery in the jobs market in this country.


User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2405 times:



Quoting DXing (Reply 14):
Business leaders are to blame for laying down and not speaking out plainly about what excessive taxing and regulation as well as excessive union demands were going to cost the country since there are other places in the world to set up shop.

Indeed, corporate leaders started looking at what was good for their firms in the short term (next couple of fiscal quarters) rather than what was good for the long-term health of the company and the employees. Why? Because these leaders/executives pay was tied to company stock options which made the executive focus on what was good for their own stock option plans - it make them extremely greed-driven. I honestly don't blame the executives - I strongly blame the corporation's (weak) board of directors for allowing this type of executive compensation to even EXIST. So much for maximizing stock-holder or employee value.....  vomit 



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2394 times:



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 15):
it make them extremely greed-driven.

Like it or not, greed is brought you, and a lot of folks jobs in this country. People like the Vanderbilts, Andrew Carnegie, Henry Ford, J.P. Morgan, E. I. du Pont, Franklin Seiberling, just to name a few were some of the greediest people in the world, and because of it hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people were put to work. Greed is not necessarily a bad thing to have.


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2032 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2390 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
America needs to worry about inventing and manufacturing high tech items

Yeah, that ship has already sailed long ago. Now what?



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8711 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2367 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
BS.
This economic decline started over a year ago when Cheney & Bush were at the helm.

Yes it did, but it has gone well beyond that now, and we aren't close to the bottom yet.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8):
Didn't hear you complaining about that between '01 and '06, Charles. Single party, with a radical agenda.

Except they weren't radical in any way.

By the way, have any of you heard Barney Frank lately? He's out there saying that mortgage lending standards should be LOWERED! Is this guy on drugs? Has he paid attention to what relaxed standards caused?

http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2009/0...-freddie-to-relax-lending-standar/

Meanwhile, the administration is talking about ANOTHER huge stimulus package, after the first ones have been completely and utterly ineffective, and after lessons learned from overseas have shown that they are counterproductive.

One of the definitions of stupididty is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results. Are they intentionally trying to screw up this country or are they simply morons?



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineCws818 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1171 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2365 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8):
Didn't hear you complaining about that between '01 and '06, Charles. Single party, with a radical agenda.

Except they weren't radical in any way.

Many people do not see it that way.



volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8711 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2362 times:



Quoting Cws818 (Reply 19):
Many people do not see it that way.

How were they radical?



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2362 times:



Quoting Cws818 (Reply 19):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8):
Didn't hear you complaining about that between '01 and '06, Charles. Single party, with a radical agenda.

Except they weren't radical in any way.

More like reactionary.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8711 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2346 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
More like reactionary.

Explain.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineCasInterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4158 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2337 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 1):
and part to high labor costs.



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 1):
If it costs too much, then it has to go overseas. It is simply next to impossible to make an economic case for keeping all of the manufacturing in the country.



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2):
If you don't have anything to export, and have to import almost everything, I just can't see it working.



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
America's future economy lies in innovation. We need to always be on top of the next big thing. Manufacturing mundane everyday things is not that important. America needs to worry about inventing and manufacturing high tech items rather than obsessing over the latest closure of a shoe factory.

The above all represent a true issue with our current economy, no matter what government is in charge.

The US Dollar is seen as a Gold standard by many countries, and this has to change. For Free Trade, Outsourcing, innovation and true capitalism, there has to be a level playing field. Currently Americans are at a distinct disadvantage in Manufacturing, and certain offshorable job markets. Free trade doesn't work for the US since our products are too expensive to manufacture here, even if invented here.

Until the world's markets including the Yuan, and other currencies are truly basketized, the US will suffer many economic problems.

The Chinese are going to have to continue to buy our debt so the Governement can bail out our citizens that are loosing jobs to chinese citizens.

It is not just a US Government problem. It is a world problem.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
Meanwhile, the administration is talking about ANOTHER huge stimulus package, after the first ones have been completely and utterly ineffective, and after lessons learned from overseas have shown that they are counterproductive.

You are so caught up in political finger pointing, that you miss the fact that the issue is Globalization, not national policy. Bush would have had to do the same thing.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineCws818 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1171 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2330 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20):

Quoting Cws818 (Reply 19):
Many people do not see it that way.

How were they radical?

Warrantless domestic wiretap program, the Terry Schiavo fiasco, for starters....



volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
25 KC135TopBoom : Actually, it goes back a little more than that, back to the 1960s. That was the last time the US economy was based on a manufacturing level over 50%
26 KC135TopBoom : Those are very hot political issues, but have absolutly nothing to do with the economy. The quickest way the US can get back into the manufacturing s
27 Dreadnought : If he had, he would have been equally wrong. Which has been proven to be bi-partisan. Also has nothing to do with economics. A media-created circus w
28 AGM100 : Correct , we have been betrayed by our government that is why some of us screamed about that bail Bush bail out!!,,, and what do the democrats want ?
29 Mir : We can. But society would have to accept the fact that if we really want to go to a service-based economy, we will be tying ourselves to the economie
30 PPVRA : The enormous debt level and unfunded liabilities are the more immediate problems for an eventual recovery. Government spending needs to be slashed eno
31 MD11Engineer : NAFTA isn´t bad by itself, but it needs something like the EU structural funds. A common market will only work if all countries involved will be at
32 KC135TopBoom : I don't see how that would work. Someone will always want to be king. Even in the EU, there are problems keeping politics and money on the same level
33 Max550 : Did you just make that number up? Wrong, the Prius has never been made in CA. They were building a plant in Mississippi to make the Prius, but that i
34 PPVRA : Everyone wants to be King, it's why competition works. What he is saying is that poorer countries will be able to underbid wealthier ones every time
35 7324ever : The economy is like a rollercoaster, It goes up and down, does flips, and alternates. Yes it will get better it always does look it like this there wa
36 KC135TopBoom : Well, sort of, but not quite. For example the Depression actually began with the stock market collapse on Oct. 1929. President F.D. Roosevelt, which
37 BMI727 : Exactly. I am writing this just after looking at a Time magazine with the headline "What Barack Obama Can Learn from FDR." Hate to burst their bubble
38 KC135TopBoom : Right now, I don't have enough confidence for up to get into war #3 right now. What Obama should do is start repairing our 40-50 year old infastructu
39 BMI727 : I wouldn't want to start a war for the sake of the economy either, but if it is that big of a hangup, that is the sure fire way to boost the economy.
40 Mir : It does indeed. And wanting to be king is good. But things work out a lot more smoothly if one is fighting to be king among relative equals, because
41 7324ever : I know. I was speaking VERY generally but thanks for the specification. It just looks that roughly every 10 years there is a cycle of downs and highs
42 QXatFAT : No I did not make up that number. It was said at the town hall meeting I attended with 2 California Senators and 3 Representatives in the California
43 Post contains images StasisLAX : Ouch, long-time Libertarian here!!! Am I bleeding???    But, does this relative equality mean that some developed EU nations will now have a lower
44 Cadet57 : No it cant. See the China/Lead paint and toys incident. Or in my case, any mexican built VW that has more service and reliability issues than a germa
45 BMI727 : Then we have incentive to buy American products, and executives have reason to keep production here. But the fact that things are still outsourced is
46 StasisLAX : Ding ding ding - we have a winner!!! (Former owner of a POS Jetta built in Mexico)[Edited 2009-07-07 18:48:44]
47 Steeler83 : I agree with this 100 percent. Sometimes, the unions are good to have, but when they hit the picket lines asking for a $60,000 salary to operate a fo
48 7324ever : Thank you! Very very true. Alot of things have been linked to 9-11 but i never saw why... Everything happens in cycles I say stop paying the CEOs mil
49 BMI727 : You have a good point. Unions served a purpose keeping companies from making workers do 12 hour shifts 6 days a week in a dangerous environment. Now
50 Mir : It does mean less economic disparity, yes. But I definitely wouldn't go as far as to say that the living standard in France will dip below that of Sl
51 LTBEWR : Let us not forget that greater computer technology and other technological improvements have increased productivity requireing fewer people. Many jobs
52 KC135TopBoom : The money was allocated. It will not be spent for 1-3 years from now. The stimulus bill was written with the 2010 Congressional elections in mind, no
53 Max550 : They must have made that number up then. CA has 335,000 state employees out of a total workforce of about 17 million. Even adding in federal and loca
54 Dreadnought : And remember how we were told "We need the bill passed RIGHT NOW! No time to read it! Tomorrow will be too late!" I swear, if the Democrats wanted to
55 7324ever : So just because you the head of a company, you should be paid 20M a year because that much money means you can automatically do the job. Using that l
56 Michlis : People don't seek the Office for the money; they seek it for the power.
57 BMI727 : No. If you want the best managers for your company, you will have to pay for it. You can get a CEO for whatever you'd like to pay him, but you will m
58 StasisLAX : Perhaps it the money the president will make AFTER the leave office - Bill Clinton made $100+ Million USD in 8 years in speaking fees, book deals, an
59 RayChuang : I think The Nation forgot one important issue on why we could have a "jobless" recovery: the national taxation system discourages personal savings and
60 KC135TopBoom : Which, unfortunately, we do not have anymore. In addition to that, Obama wants to increase taxes on all (what happened to the no tax on $250K, or les
61 Dreadnought : Thanks for the illustration. Based on your scenario, I ran the numbers for my family. My wife has a neuromuscular condition that requires about $8,00
62 FlyPNS1 : But who do you think really paid that $300,000? Your premiums certainly wouldn't have covered it all. Instead, your insurance company jacks up the pr
63 Ken777 : We also need factories that produce non-tech stuff. Letting that non-tech manufacturing sector shrivel ended up in shriveling that part of the popula
64 Post contains links Max550 : Interesting theory, but that's not how it would work. They would tax the benefits you receive from your employer, not the benefits your insurance com
65 Flighty : Here is the problem. If people are going underground, it is because they find superior productivity / profitability underground. This is easy to imag
66 Flighty : Mr 777, there are a couple problems with this as well. As BWI stated, keeping old factories open to support the workers is inefficient and is a chara
67 BMI727 : So we are supposed to produce and purchase items that are more expensive because they are made in America just to subsidize blue collar workers? That
68 Post contains links PPVRA : Capital flight indicates fear and a desire for protection of assets, not a more efficient underground economy. That people are seeking protection und
69 Dreadnought : It's not that simple. Which performance measures do you choose? Choose only one or two and that can be easily abused or circumvented. Choose a basket
70 PPVRA : Free market means freedom from coercion, just like any other freedoms. Socialism forces you to participate in whatever scheme they deem necessary. Th
71 Ken777 : You'd prefer to buy it a bit cheaper and then pay out government benefits like food stamps and Medicaid? That would raise your taxes or dump more deb
72 7324ever : Thats because we had a lot smaller population that could be sustained on everything being made here know in a day and age were transportation/importi
73 Ken777 : And, let's face it, we have a smaller gap between the CEOs and the lowest paid employees in a company. Now we have CEOs pulling in very large compensa
74 BMI727 : There are plenty of things for blue collar workers to do that aren't in a factory. Letting go of low level manufacturing does not automatically mean
75 PPVRA : Wages are set in labor markets, not by CEOs or any management team.
76 KC135TopBoom : Where can I get one.................make that two.................better get me a gross!!!!!!!!! Insurance is free market, Everyone pays a premimum,
77 Post contains links Dreadnought : Found it! http://www.zazzle.com/vote_for_obama..._bumper_sticker-128332074008619969
78 WarRI1 : I agree completely.
79 KC135TopBoom : " target=_blank>http://www.zazzle.com/vote_for_obama...19969 Thank you. Both of you are wrong. CEOs have nothing to do with setting the minimum wage.
80 FlyPNS1 : Sure it's free market, you get to pick amongst a host of health plans all of which use the same "socialist" model. Everyone pays in for the greater g
81 Yellowstone : But the CEOs can lobby Congress to keep minimum wages low, hence increasing profits for shareholders.
82 BMI727 : And unions can lobby Congress to raise the minimum wage so it's a wash. Better stay away from airlines too then. Those Business Class prices are subs
83 Flighty : That's not true. Minimum wages take jobs away from poor people who actually need the $6/hr. Companies don't really care about it. Your average CEO ha
84 BMI727 : That kind of is the way it works. One house could be worth far more than what an identical house across the street is worth just because it is in a d
85 Post contains images StasisLAX : One must remember that the congressional-industry lobbyist complex has existed for decades with members of Congress. "Government of the lobbyists, fo
86 StasisLAX : Just allow Israel to bomb Iran (or North Korea to nuke South Korea or Japan) and we'll get a World War III economic recovery - and probably radiation
87 BMI727 : Well, if you really want the economy to turn around and get those precious manufacturing jobs back, that is a pretty much guaranteed way to do it. De
88 KC135TopBoom : Link? Correct, the unions also don't want the minimum wage to raise. If they did, Congress would raise it every year Who has ever been turned away fo
89 Par13del : The population of the US is now over 300+ million, since "white collar" and some service jobs are not usually labour intensive, the country will do w
90 KC135TopBoom : Sort of correct, it is 15% and falling. Oh so unions protected union jobs? Ah, no they did not. Union workers are loosing jobs at about the same rate
91 BMI727 : Nope. The unions priced themselves right out of the market.
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The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up? posted Sat Jun 27 2009 11:54:44 by OA260
Obama's Transparency Report Card So Far: "C" Grade posted Tue Mar 24 2009 06:28:30 by Aaron747
Why Do We Say "ow"/"ouch" ... Universal? posted Sat Jan 19 2008 00:24:15 by Kaitak
The Gulf Coast Will Never Suffer Aother Katrina... posted Fri Apr 7 2006 19:16:15 by Alberchico
Will America Pay In Future? posted Wed Mar 12 2003 04:10:26 by Jm-airbus320