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How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?  
User currently offlineF.pier From Italy, joined Aug 2000, 1525 posts, RR: 9
Posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4861 times:

On average?

In Italy the average knowledge of Italian is really low, people make a lot of grammar mistake and about verbs they use times in a really bad way. Maybe because Italian was not widely spoken before TV entered in all homes and people was used to speak dialects.

On average....

What about your country?

[Edited 2009-07-11 07:43:55]

64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2693 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4845 times:
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I think that in this day and age of electronic communication and SMS, the level of spelling and grammar displayed by the younger generation of Australians is deteriorating. For me, who learnt English as a second language, I find it frustrating that while I had to put the effort in to get my spelling and grammar correct, native English speakers don't seem to give it a second thought. Nowadays, I'm the one people turn to when they want to know how to spell a word ...

Thorough knowledge of English is definitely on the decline among the younger generation.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineBR076 From Netherlands, joined May 2005, 1086 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4845 times:



Quoting CXB77L (Reply 1):
Thorough knowledge of English is definitely on the decline among the younger generation.

Same goes for Dutch in the Netherlands.



ú
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13195 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4825 times:

In the USA, there seems to be an increase in poor grammar, spelling and vocabulary. Far too often the F-word and other foul words dominate conversation. Very few really learn a second language. The use of texting, e-mail, automatic spelling/grammer checking funcitons in Word as well as less conversations in person between people is adding to the decling of knowledge of English here.

User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8463 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4819 times:
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Quoting F.pier (Thread starter):
In Italy the average knowledge of Italian is really low, people make a lot of grammar mistake and about verbs they use times in a really bad way. Maybe because Italian was not widely spoken before TV entered in all homes and people was used to speak dialects.

Okay you got me... Italian wasn't known in Italy before TV??



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineF.pier From Italy, joined Aug 2000, 1525 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4815 times:

Italy exists only since 1861 and Italian was taught in schools, but consider that in the average family the only spoken language was the local dialect. So children went to the school and learned Italian, but back at home they spoke dialect. My grandmother for example was born in 1903 and could understand Italian, but it was very hard for her speaking it.
In cities it was different because the presence of immigrants let the locals speak Italian earlier than in small towns.

In Tuscany Italian was the local dialect, so it was easier for them....

But it's true that the knowledge of Italian is now declining also here, because youngsters speak a very poor Italian

[Edited 2009-07-11 08:44:03]

User currently offlineTransIsland From Bahamas, joined Mar 2004, 2046 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4798 times:

For an example of the state of the English language in the Bahamas, take a look at this Facebook quiz. Sadly, this is not an exception.

http://quiz.applatform.com/track/?i=...h=cb271fa4e6b9daf31a4faa0864224b47



I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
User currently offlineJanmnastami From Italy, joined Apr 2008, 828 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4798 times:



Quoting F.pier (Thread starter):
In Italy the average knowledge of Italian is really low, people make a lot of grammar mistake and about verbs they use times in a really bad way.

I disagree, it's true that many people don't use subjunctive or conditional in the correct way, but it's because the "spoken language" is different from the formal one.


User currently offlineF.pier From Italy, joined Aug 2000, 1525 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4790 times:



Quoting Janmnastami (Reply 7):
I disagree, it's true that many people don't use subjunctive or conditional in the correct way, but it's because the "spoken language" is different from the formal one.

This means that the "spoken language" is wrong. I know a lot of people (myself too) who like speaking a good Italian.


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4787 times:



Quoting CXB77L (Reply 1):
I think that in this day and age of electronic communication and SMS, the level of spelling and grammar displayed by the younger generation of Australians is deteriorating.

You put to shame many an a.net member who in theory has English as a first language - not only from Aus either. However, I suspect that the proportion of younger (any country) persons with excellent linguistic skills is about the same as ever, but the dreaded internet "persuades"/"permits" many with inferior linguistic skills to demonstrate them.


User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8463 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4784 times:
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Quoting CXB77L (Reply 1):
electronic communication and SMS, the level of spelling and grammar displayed by the younger generation of Australians is deteriorating

It is happening everywhere. I hate the SMS abbreviations, personally I always use the complete word when sending an SMS. With predictive text it is faster than silly abbreviations anyway.



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineRobertNL070 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2003, 4534 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4782 times:



Quoting BR076 (Reply 2):
Same goes for Dutch in the Netherlands.

Sadly it is not confined to the younger generation here.



Youth is a gift of nature. Age is a work of art.
User currently offlineAmricanShamrok From Ireland, joined May 2008, 3003 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4731 times:

In Ireland our first language (Gaeilge) is popular but the majority of people only have a few words from their school days. There are only about 80,000 native speakers residing in areas where Irish is spoken daily (An Gaeltacht), mainly in the west.


Shannon-Chicago
User currently offlineFatmirJusufi From Albania, joined Jan 2009, 2441 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4722 times:



Quoting F.pier (Thread starter):
What about your country?

Unfortunately very poor grammar in countries where Albanian is widely spoken (Albania, Kosovo and FYROM). I hope the situation will get improved.



DO FLIGHTS. NOT FIGHTS.
User currently offlineBWilliams From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 212 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4700 times:



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
In the USA, there seems to be an increase in poor grammar, spelling and vocabulary. Far too often the F-word and other foul words dominate conversation. Very few really learn a second language. The use of texting, e-mail, automatic spelling/grammer checking funcitons in Word as well as less conversations in person between people is adding to the decling of knowledge of English here.

Indeed ... I try to speak and (especially) type correctly, which is more then most Americans, especially those in my generation, can say. I say that because, when speaking, a bit of slang or mis-speech might slip and is somewhat acceptable (ie, not noticed), but in text, it's much more obvious that something doesn't look right.

Admittedly, my grammar (insofar as punctuation and such) isn't perfect, as I mostly type the way I would speak, using commas or elipses where I would pause when speaking.


As far as foreign languages, absolutely, LTB. I'm studying German because I find it to be an interesting language, and I enjoy learning languages. I get a lot of 'why would you do that?', 'when would you seriously need to speak German?', and the like from people who just don't get it. Even though Spanish (and in some cases, French, Italian, or other languages) are taught in schools, most people STILL only speak English, which is unbelievable.



Regards, Brad Williams
User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4694 times:

Knowledge of "Spanglish" here in the U.S. is quite good  duck 


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20334 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4660 times:



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
In the USA, there seems to be an increase in poor grammar, spelling and vocabulary. Far too often the F-word and other foul words dominate conversation. Very few really learn a second language. The use of texting, e-mail, automatic spelling/grammer checking funcitons in Word as well as less conversations in person between people is adding to the decling of knowledge of English here.

Interestingly, I was on the train a few months back and two African-American youths were having a conversation.

Now, they clearly both spoke English and were speaking English. And I am a born-and-raised American. But I could not understand a word of their conversation nor could I have mimicked their style of speech. And yet they were speaking English.

Or were they? If the definition of a language is that it must be mutually intelligible to all speakers, has "ebonics," or "ghetto talk" or whatever you want to call it turned into a separate language? I bet that if, allowed to continue on its natural course, it will mature into a clearly distinct language. Already, it has very formalized rules of grammar, even though those rules vary from English. For example, "to be" is a verb that indicates the habitual tense, which is a tense that doesn't exist in English. The phrase, "She be home" means that she tends to be at home, but does not guarantee that she's at home this moment. Ebonics is very quickly solidifying its own set of nouns, pronunciations, and grammatical rules. I think it's an exciting opportunity to watch a language be born.

Now, the different dialects in the various ethnic "ghettos" are noticeable, especially in a place like NYC, SF, or LA, but I've become convinced that...whatever you want to call what those kids were speaking is becoming something like a patois. It happened in Jamaica to English there and I bet it'll happen here, too.


User currently offlineRsg85 From Australia, joined Aug 2006, 257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4631 times:



Quoting CXB77L (Reply 1):
the level of spelling and grammar displayed by the younger generation of Australians is deteriorating

What are yous speakings about we speaks good england in straya eh

But seriously im often ashamed when i hear Aussies overseas, it's ok to speak "strayan" to your mates, but leave it at home.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7718 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4582 times:

In the UK, people just don't seem to care these days. I am so sick of it, documents coming to me with elementary mistakes in spelling, grammar and syntax. It drives me mad. On this site you see it a lot with English too.

Some of my pet hates include:

Misuse of the apostrophe - your, you're, their, they're, posessive instead of plural etc.
Two, to, too.
Loose/lose.
Writing two words as one, i.e. "alot" or "aswell".

.....and the list goes on.

These particular types of mistake are very common, but in fact the principles are so simple.

Grrrrrrrrrrr!



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4575 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
And I am a born-and-raised American. But I could not understand a word of their conversation nor could I have mimicked their style of speech. And yet they were speaking English.

Glad some from the US also suffer this problem.  bigthumbsup  Some of the "sound bites" from the US are totally incomprehensible to me. I just wonder if our TV folk bother to check that THEY can understand before sending the jumble out over our airwaves too.

Quoting Rsg85 (Reply 17):
yous speakings about we speaks good england in straya eh

Now the rather less than before beloved ABC has a radio person who raises her voice at the end of sentENCES


User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8463 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4562 times:
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Quoting Baroque (Reply 19):
raises her voice at the end of sentENCES

I have never heard that from anyone else other than Australians.



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4549 times:



Quoting Andz (Reply 20):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 19):
raises her voice at the end of sentENCES

I have never heard that from anyone else other than Australians.

Quite possibly but only from some!! A bit like the cult of the HAITCH. As in BHP being B Haitch P.

Some comedians made a career out of imitating it in the early 80s and now there is a significant minority that just talks that way.

Some of the mannerisms are caught in the Kath and Kim TV comedy. Sound bites at.
http://www.kathandkim.com/zip_your_lip.htm

But they are more complex than the simple rising inflection.

For Pru and Trude Sound bites try

http://www.kathandkim.com/threw.htm

Not to be confused with the US version. NOT to be confused!!!!


User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5807 posts, RR: 31
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4449 times:



Quoting Andz (Reply 10):
I hate the SMS abbreviations, personally I always use the complete word when sending an SMS.

Proper order. I do too, and use capitals where necessary. Commas, colons and semicolons, where appropriate, go in too. On more than one occasion I have misinterpreted texts due to the abscence of punctuation.

Quoting Andz (Reply 20):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 19):
raises her voice at the end of sentENCES

I have never heard that from anyone else other than Australians.

Kids now do that here too. I blame Neighbours.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7819 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4439 times:



Quoting BWilliams (Reply 14):
which is more then most Americans

which is more than most Americans

Quoting BWilliams (Reply 14):
but in text, it's much more obvious that something doesn't look right.

Was this example of incorrect word usage accidential, or on purpose to get your point accross.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4423 times:

Depending on Which language...This is a land of hundreds of different variaties of languages.
Mostly the popular ones being English & Hindi.
most people speak their 1st language well,but there could be grammatical errors with others.

regds
MEL.



Think of the brighter side!
25 Baroque : I don't know about that program. I only know about NeighBOURS. Actually I think I can truly claim never to have watched NeighBOURS although I know of
26 AM744 : Vocabulary and orthography is lacking at every level, even university graduates. Vocabulary and grammar shortages become clear when reading newspaper
27 Ronglimeng : I guess our opening poster is just asking for opinions because I doubt very much if anybody here has access to a lot of scientific data on the subject
28 Michlis : Spot on! I will defend spell check; however; because it can be a useful tool for proof-reading.
29 Post contains links AverageUser : Any takers for a verbal system such as ours? Type for instance "ajatella" = "to think" into http://www.verbix.com/languages/finnish.shtml . And then
30 7324ever : In the US in the north it is Improving the west coast it still going down hill especially with Ebonics in the Hispanic/black/aisan ghetto areas it "be
31 LTU932 : In Germany, it's rather good, but not very good. Despite the very difficult grammar, the rules for capitalisation, and with the orthographic changes i
32 Andz : I've noticed this every time I visit Germany, it seems to be the trendy thing to do, especially in advertising. I believe that in France there are la
33 Baroque : 'Scuse me, this facility is not available (well not to me) and in any event is needed only by those writing the Wizard of Id or similar. There is a f
34 MadameConcorde : In Monaco Monegasque is the National language. It is taught in schools and adult classes. It is not spoken widely at all. You can hear French, Italian
35 Connies4ever : As for the state of the English language in Canada: maybe marginally better than the US, but just. As for French, well, two answers. Quebecois French
36 ME AVN FAN : In German speaking Europe, the 1000 years under Mr Hitler were disastrous for German rethorics. And in Switzerland, German language students were badl
37 HT : I have no problem with this, if the radio station indeed is aiming at local population. It actually helps to preserve the local dialects - something
38 ME AVN FAN : If you realize that 4 mio. German speaking Switzerland sports some 30 different dialects, and that some radio speakers speak in a dialect which is ha
39 FatmirJusufi : This is strange! I have never imagined that Swiss-German is hardly to communicate between East and West German speakers! I have been twice in Zurich
40 ME AVN FAN : - not really, as it is one of the easiest ! Try it with the one of Bern-Oberland or Bern-Seeland or Uri or Wallis. Compare the dialects from Thurgau,
41 Post contains images Pawsleykat : You took the words right our of my mouth. That's exactly how I feel. I go mad if someone were to write "your so hot. It's to good". Simply because th
42 FatmirJusufi : Oh my God. I was wrong. I meant Bern Deutsch, not Basel. Anyway Swiss Deutsch it's on my top list 'languages' (actually it's a dialect) that I want t
43 AM744 : I thought "weekend" was the 'French' word whereas in Quebec paradoxically, they use the much more French "fin de semaine".
44 Timlin88 : Things are going the same way in Geneva. Of course, the spoken level of French is probably better, since it's the only official language, but the lev
45 Andz : That is rife here, and it really grates me when I see it on signs, billboards etc. that have been made by "professional" sign companies. Does nobody
46 Baroque : And that is probably the moment when our brains lean back metaphorically and think, "Ah at last an American I can understand". Is Obama a closet Cand
47 GrahamHill : I'm mot quite sure about the term use of "Walkman" in France. I think that "Walkman" is a trademark of Sony and therefore manufacturers/shops/adverti
48 ME AVN FAN : - the Wallisers have it difficult to get understood. I was and often the only one who does understand them. In regard to the other people you mention
49 LH459 : This is my biggest gripe in modern German! I take great pains to write correctly, but few of my friends (or even business contacts!) follow the capit
50 Luckyone : SoCal slang to me as is as distinctive as a thick New Yawwk accent. I was halfway around the world and heard somebody speak and I pegged them. Where
51 Timlin88 : Why thank you! As a matter of fact I do! Back on topic, really interesting to see us having completely different experiences. I think your's is proba
52 Oly720man : Having had the dubious pleasure of marking exams and lab reports for university students - 3rd and 4th year undergraduate and MSc - it is worrying tha
53 Rlwynn : I find it amusing when on German TV the use sometimes have to underitles when speaking with a German in Germany. Luxembourg is also interesting. Watch
54 Carlisle : Which is a shame because Dutch is really cool language and I love speaking how much of it I know. As for (American) English, like you know, like we r
55 ME AVN FAN : - I would expect him to speak a "mild" Berner-Oberland dialect. Reminds me of the complaint of a British Airways Manager in Zurich who once told me t
56 SKY1 : hahaha ...that's the most typical mistake in many Spanish-speakers. That's the most common mistake from the speakers in Latinamerica. "Rozar" (to bru
57 Andz : It must belong to a South African, that is rife here and EXTREMELY annoying!
58 ME AVN FAN : - In Luxembourg, they speak Lechteburgish, their dialect, but use French and standard German as official and business languages. I like Lechteburgish
59 Carlisle : For some reason I thought the standard pronunciation in Spain was "thapato", "Tharagosa" (Zaragosa), or is this in certain regions? Whenever I am wat
60 DanVS : I have the impression that the use of our language is also going downhill. One point that no one mentioned so far are the languages that are disappear
61 CXB77L : Not just South Africa, but in Australia as well, and from what I read, in Britain too. Gets on my nerves every time.
62 Post contains links Captaink : In Jamaica, the way of speaking is not like ebonics in any way. Jamaica and most of the English speaking Caribbean have what is a sort of patois, a m
63 AM744 : Right. Add to that "Grashiash" for "Gracias" and "Ushté" for "Usted". Lol.
64 ME AVN FAN : - Well, "Spain Spanish" is the REAL Spanish, just like "England English" is the real English, even if that is not liked by some "overseas"
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