Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Two Hotels Bombed In Jakarta  
User currently offlineCwapilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 17
Posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1681 times:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/bombs-ex...-jakarta-hotels-20090717-dnkd.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8155084.stm

This is an area frequented daily by my in-laws. Thankfully (for them), we learned that they are in Singapore. Most of the Indonesian news sources I usually look at return a non-response from their server.


Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCwapilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1646 times:

A couple sources are now reporting that a third bomb (car bomb) exploded outside of a shopping mall.


Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1632 times:

Bugger.

Quoting Cwapilot (Reply 1):
A couple sources are now reporting that a third bomb (car bomb) exploded outside of a shopping mall.

Had not heard that. DFAT website in Aus is still reporting only the hotel bombings - what is it about Marriott? I make that four, two in Indonesia and two in Pakistan.

The upside seems to be much smaller bombs and it SEEMS to be splinter groups who call the calmer JI folk NATO - No Action, Talk Only. Oh the Indonesian affinity for witty acronyms!

You are right, Jkt Post has just hung and hung and hung. All I can get is the header. Wonder if there is a cyber attack or just too many trying to log on.

May be related, election of SBY was declared this morning. Hope someone traces a certain candidate whose name begins with P's phone calls. The AFP seem to be involved, so they will be doing the phone homework.

Glad to hear your rels are safe. Would Indonesian a.net members let us know how they are ASAP please?


User currently offlinePhoenix9 From Canada, joined Aug 2007, 2546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1630 times:

Quoting Baroque (Reply 2):
what is it about Marriott?

Probably because of the fact that a lot of foreigners stay in these hotels, especially in Pakistan.

Its too bad that innocent individuals have to die for some terroist's wet dream.

The Toronto Star is reporting this:

The Manchester United football team was scheduled to stay at the Ritz on Saturday and Sunday nights for a friendly match against the Indonesian All Stars, the Indonesian Football association said.


Full article here: http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/667619

[Edited 2009-07-16 22:05:42]


Life only makes sense when you look at it backwards.
User currently offlineCwapilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1623 times:



Quoting Baroque (Reply 2):
Glad to hear your rels are safe.

Well, it's almost become a morbid joke among us...every time there is some sort of disaster like this or a natural disaster, and we go making phone calls to check on them, they always seem to be in Japan or Singapore!



Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1621 times:



Quoting Cwapilot (Reply 1):
A couple sources are now reporting that a third bomb (car bomb) exploded outside of a shopping mall.

Pikiran Rakyat
http://www.pikiran-rakyat.com/

is now reporting two hotel bombs, but nothing about a shopping mall.
http://www.pikiran-rakyat.com/index.php?mib=news.detail&id=87304
But it seems to be saying some pickup was nothing to do with the bombs. So not very helpful.

Quoting Phoenix9 (Reply 3):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 2):
what is it about Marriott?
Probably because of the fact that a lot of foreigners stay in these hotels, especially in Pakistan.

Well yes, but you would assume security at the Marriott might be improved these days and foreign "targets" are not exactly confined to the Marriott. It might be that the Embassies have been using it more.


User currently offlinePhoenix9 From Canada, joined Aug 2007, 2546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1613 times:



Quoting Baroque (Reply 5):

Also from the same article:

The blasts were caused by "high explosives," Security Minister Widodo Adi Sucipto told reporters at the scene, without elaborating. He said they exploded two minutes apart.

He said a New Zealander was among those killed, and that thirteen other foreigners were among the injured.

Two U.S. officials said one American is believed to have been injured but that has not yet been confirmed. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the situation publicly


Because of past attacks, most major hotels in Jakarta take security precautions, such as checking incoming vehicles and requiring visitors to pass through metal detectors. Still, international hotels make attractive targets, since the nature of their business requires them to be relatively open and accessible.



Life only makes sense when you look at it backwards.
User currently offlineCwapilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1605 times:

"But a third explosion two hours later in the north of the city, is now reported to have been a faulty truck battery and not a car bomb."

http://www.smh.com.au/world/jakarta-...ill-at-least--9-20090717-dnkd.html

At least that is decent news.



Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1589 times:



Quoting Cwapilot (Reply 7):
"But a third explosion two hours later in the north of the city, is now reported to have been a faulty truck battery and not a car bomb."

http://www.smh.com.au/world/jakarta-...ill-at-least--9-20090717-dnkd.html

At least that is decent news.

I think sources outside Indonesia are ahead of Indonesian media.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009/07/17/bomb-attacks.html

Now has pictures, but sod all detail. 4 linked articles, but I am having difficulty getting them to load.

Ah

Car explodes in North Jakarta

The Jakarta Post , Jakarta | Fri, 07/17/2009 11:23 AM | Jakarta
A passenger car explodes near a toll gate in Muara Angke, North Jakarta, on Friday morning. It was not confirmed whether the explosion was related to the fatal explosions that hit two hotels earlier in the morning.


Sounds a bit fierce for a battery.

And

Police and hospital officials say six people have been killed and at least 39 injured in a pair of powerful blasts that hit two luxury hotels in Mega Kuningan business area in downtown Jakarta.

Dr. Cahyono of the Jakarta Hospital said six people were killed in explosions at the Ritz-Carlton and Marriott hotels Friday morning.


Which is what we knew. Response times are RS!!


User currently offlineCwapilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1584 times:



Quoting Baroque (Reply 8):
I think sources outside Indonesia are ahead of Indonesian media

Yeah...the Jakarta Post is much better than it was, but 24 Hour, constantly updated news, at least on the web and in English, is not really available.



Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
User currently offlineCwapilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1582 times:

"Indonesian police say its bomb squad have found an unexploded bomb at Jakarta's luxury JW Marriott Hotel after at least nine people were reported dead and 50 injured in early bomb attacks." -SMH.com.au


Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
User currently offline7324ever From Serbia, joined May 2009, 563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1570 times:

I wonder who was behind it.

This is really sad and I hope they catch the criminals.



Anything the US and EU build the Russians do it better! i.e. TU-144 vs Concorde and TU-154 vs The 727...
User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1216 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1560 times:

Thats what, the second or third time JW Marriott is targeted in Jakarta?
What company would still allow their employees to stay there and especially at the lower floors?

My company has not to surprisingly JW Marriot on a list of hotels not to frequent in certain countries...

The kiwi killed was the manager for Swiss cementmaker Holcim in Indonesia.

Its always sad world when innocent people are taken from us.
May they rest in peace.



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10725 posts, RR: 38
Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1539 times:

More terror horror. Attacks against innocents.
RIP victims.

Now are JW Marriott and Ritz-Carlton both US hotel chains?
Maybe "AlQaeda" attack against US interests abroad?

 Wow!



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1526 times:



Quoting 7324ever (Reply 11):
I wonder who was behind it.

Some suggestions that it was individual suicide bombers, possibly at least one woman. That would be much different from before.

Noordin Mohammed Top, a Malaysian seems to be top of the pops as a mastermind. Not sure that gels with the other suggestion of a female bomber.

The Marriott was well guarded. How did they get in? Some suggestions the bomb was built in the hotel. That should have left a forensic trail a mile wide????


User currently offlineAfterburner From Indonesia, joined Jun 2005, 1201 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1517 times:



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 13):
Maybe "AlQaeda" attack against US interests abroad?

The president (of Indonesia) has just given his address regarding this bomb terror. Implicitly, he said that the mastermind behind this terror is not the usual suspect (based on intelligence sources). This terror is more related to the result of election we have just held rather than to US/Western interests in Indonesia


User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6590 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1509 times:

Guys,
The nation is in anger! Our president is peev3d off beyond belief...
Me and Afterburner are safe and are in contact (and look who just posted  Smile ). I havent heard from ThaiA345....

Let's get some facts straight...
The car that was reported to have previously exploded in North Jakarta has been declared not to be caused by a bomb.

A few possibly unrelated findings over the past few days have been disturbing. 1.5 million USD was robbed the other day, and also the police found a bomb making factory on the south coast of Java... Again, we do not know if these are related.

From what is known so far... the hallmarks of these 2 explosions (and 1 unexploded bomb) does not seem to be an Al-Q or JI work... it cannot be ruled out, but doesn't seem like it at the moment.

It seems that the CCTV recording has been recovered and is being processed.
It is now known that there are at least three bombs, 2 exploded, 1 failed, which has been defused and secured. What is disturbing is that the unexploded bomb is reported to have been found in the JWMarriott's "Control Center", this appears to have been an attempt to eliminate evidence. This points the way towards someone else as the mastermind.

The Jihadists seems to prefer the "glorious death" prior to detonation, using a frontal security barrier penetration attempt, with them being self-satisfied of fear and panic prior to the explosion... This one, has none of that.

It is an explosion from within a security perimeter, in a contained space, maximizing soft target/tissue damage, but taken at a time where damage would be limited to hotel guests and staff. It is aimed at maximum fear... if this was religiously motivated, they would have picked the early evening, where everyone can be hit (locals as "friends of the infidels" mingle with the foreigners in the hotel).

The intelligence community have gone haywire since the election, in particular after P's press conference calling the election as not-valid. Whether P is the mastermind or not, we do not know.

Since the election, there has been attacks at the Freeport mine targetting foreigners, and then this... It is a disturbing trail leading to anything other than "the usual suspects."

I am well p1ssed off at the moment!!!!

RIP to the victims...

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6590 posts, RR: 75
Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1506 times:

From the president:

Quote:
"Barangkali ada di antara kita, yang beberapa waktu lalu melakukan kejahatan, membunuh, menghilangkan nyawa orang lain, dan masih lolos dari jeratan hukum, negara tidak akan membiarkan mereka lagi bertindak seperti drakula."

Translates into:
Maybe there are those amongst us who not too long ago have comitted crimes, murders and caused loss of other people's lives, and have escaped the law, our nation will not let them re-commit like draculas.

It does point towards the recent presidential elections....



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10725 posts, RR: 38
Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1483 times:

Whatever the cause/reason may be these terror attacks are awful and unforgivable. They always target innocents not the politicians who are safely guarded in their bunker presidential palaces and during their travels. What has happened here once more is truly horrible.  Angry


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1447 times:



Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 16):
The nation is in anger! Our president is peev3d off beyond belief...
Me and Afterburner are safe and are in contact (and look who just posted Smile ). I havent heard from ThaiA345....

Good to hear you are well and safe.

So sad seeing the limp bodies being carried away. Do the perpetrators really qualify for human?

Yes, SBY is mightily annoyed and fairly specifically annoyed. Although I rather sense that while SBY is obviously peeved in about the same direction as I am, getting the country similarly peeved is going to to take a bit of work.

Sidney Jones has given a number of interviews that seem to have the same background.

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2008/s2629518.htm

She starts by arguing for Top, but no longer JI related, and then adds this:
SIDNEY JONES: I would just add that there are groups other than those associated with Noordin and I think we have to remember that groups that are not JI, that never had any connection with JI, but who nevertheless have their own separate ties to Mindanao, for example, who have received military training and who are experts at bomb-making, who come from completely outside the network. So I think we have to keep our minds open about who in fact was responsible for this bombing today.

You might be interested to know that CARL UNGERER, also in this interview had stated on ABC AM program on Friday 17 July 2009, at 07.00 am (so 04.00 WIB) that bombings in Jkt were likely soon. OOOPS!!!

I was fascinated at the publication of the wealth of the candidates. Which would make you wonder if the bank robbery was related to this incident if SBYs suspicions are correct - that particular suspect would hardly be short of USD1.5 million would he?

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 16):
Since the election, there has been attacks at the Freeport mine targetting foreigners, and then this... It is a disturbing trail leading to anything other than "the usual suspects."

A very strange shooting, and even more (or is it really less) strange loss of the bullets between Timika and Jkt!!!! However, I don't immediately see the relation to the Jkt bombings. One way or another it seems that the value you get for paying for security in Papua is open to debate.


User currently offlineRyanair!!! From Australia, joined Mar 2002, 4738 posts, RR: 26
Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1363 times:

My mum's a Jakartan so we have family members back there. I have tons of friends who reside there too and I personally know one who was involved in the previous Marriot bombing. The only thing which saved him while he was at the hotel cafe was the fact that his chair was backed up towards a pillar when the car bomb went off. His boss who was at the same table was blown away and hair / clothes burnt off, fortunately they both miraculously survived.

My heart is with Jakartans at this moment. No one deserves to live in fear in their own home.



Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1329 times:

Long discussion with Sidney Jones and Ungerer with a full transcript at:

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2008/s2629518.htm

Vodcast at the main Lateline site.

However, there was an even more interesting interview with Greg Barton on the program on Monday 20 July, but it is not posted at the time of this post.

How they hide:
LEIGH SALES: I'll ask you both a little more later about the way JI functions and those various functions, but for now, can I ask Carl Ungerer: how is it that the bomb-maker Noordin Top has managed to remain at large for so long?

CARL UNGERER: It's a good question. The Indonesian police have clearly been on his trail for a number of years. The death of Azahari a couple of years ago, they were obviously quite close to that network - Azahari and Top were quite close. So, it's difficult to say. An interesting point here is Mas Selamat Kastari escape from a Singaporean detention centre about 16 months ago and his ability to live in southern Malaysia just some 25 kilometres from Singapore in houses and around schools that were - that we know have been formally associated with JI. So there is out there of sympathisers, of support groups who continue to provide a degree of cover for some of these individuals.

LEIGH SALES: Sidney Jones, do you have any particular insight into how it is that Noordin Top's managed to evade capture?

SIDNEY JONES: No, but I would agree that there is a sense of loyalty in the organisation, so that anybody who's been inducted feels a responsibility to protect anyone who's in danger, and in danger means also being hunted by the police. That sense of solidarity extends not just to members of the organisation Jemaah Islamiah, but also to sympathisers more widely. So it actually isn't that surprising that Noordin has managed to elude police for this long.


I guess this suggests that the long standing distrust of Polisi is coming back to bite even if the police investigating Terry Wrists are a different mob!!!

The following seems to be what is advising the current DFAT warnings.

LEIGH SALES: So in your paper, are you suggesting that this could be the start of a bombing season. I don't mean to overstate it, but I'm just wondering if that's where you're heading when you saying that there are these young guys who are looking for a sort of more hardline approach?

CARL UNGERER: Well, I think a bombing season probably does overstate it a bit. I think we're going - I think the threat from a continuing campaign of bombing remains high, particularly in Indonesia, and as new recruits join the organisation and as they gravitate towards this very hardline view, this splinter group, then I do think we can expect to continue to see this sort of thing.
....

SIDNEY JONES: I would just add that there are groups other than those associated with Noordin and I think we have to remember that groups that are not JI, that never had any connection with JI, but who nevertheless have their own separate ties to Mindanao, for example, who have received military training and who are experts at bomb-making, who come from completely outside the network. So I think we have to keep our minds open about who in fact was responsible for this bombing today.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26489 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1326 times:



Quoting Baroque (Reply 2):
what is it about Marriott? I make that four, two in Indonesia and two in Pakistan.

Marriotts = American!! They will always be a target abroad just like American Airlines and Embassies.

I always stay at Marriotts and am always aware that they may be a target but you cant live your life like that. Security is always quite good in the ones I have been in. I love the Marriott/Renaissance brand and would never switch from it.

RIP to all the victims. Sadly Indonesia has been on my ''No go'' list for a few years now.



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1322 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 22):
Sadly Indonesia has been on my ''No go'' list for a few years now.

Still more likely to meet an untimely end traveling to the airport than from a JI bomb.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 22):
Marriotts = American!!

Well they bombed a meeting at the Marriott that was mostly Indonesians, Australians and Kiwis. When they bombed Bali, apparently they thought they were bombing Americans. Then again, perhaps it was just whites (bule or perhaps if it was Noordin, orang putih) but if that was the case why do they "insist" on killing at least as many Indonesians each time?


User currently offlineRyanair!!! From Australia, joined Mar 2002, 4738 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1311 times:



Quoting Baroque (Reply 23):
Well they bombed a meeting at the Marriott that was mostly Indonesians, Australians and Kiwis. When they bombed Bali, apparently they thought they were bombing Americans. Then again, perhaps it was just whites (bule or perhaps if it was Noordin, orang putih) but if that was the case why do they "insist" on killing at least as many Indonesians each time?

Why? In extremists-speak, anyone who mingles with or benefits from the damned (in this case the bule and orang putih) is considered equally guilty by association. Therefore this collateral damage is deemed deserving and somewhat a necessity, sickening as this may sound.

This "war" will go on for a long time to come. For as long as there are sympathisers and a sense of distrust between this marginalised part of society and the world at large, the threat will always be present. These people come from largely the poor and uneducated so their sway towards the darkside is somewhat understandable. However, what worries me are the educated and schooled ones who are also drawn in by the lure of jihad. Not that I want to be in a terrorist group but it just makes me wonder, what the hell do they preach which makes even a rational, educated person turn? What is this charismatic element missing in most of our religions today? Can we tap on this charismatic element found in these mujahideens and imams to use them and better our society?



Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 25, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1293 times:



Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 24):
However, what worries me are the educated and schooled ones who are also drawn in by the lure of jihad. Not that I want to be in a terrorist group but it just makes me wonder, what the hell do they preach which makes even a rational, educated person turn? What is this charismatic element missing in most of our religions today? Can we tap on this charismatic element found in these mujahideens and imams to use them and better our society?

Maybe it is a combination of very little education (eg Amrosi) and education but maybe limited education in terms of its horizons (eg Noordin)??

What is likely to be a factor is the very limited reading list of most. Indonesia just is not a "book society". I can imagine that the "First Tuesday Book club" would be the most underwatched program in Indonesia whereas it has a fairish audience here. However, TV watching is almost an autonomic response, so maybe TV is at fault in not being more usefully educational.

Then there is religion. I have problems with all religions but Islam does seem to put up some remarkably poorly educated folk as Imams. Not too many are like Wahid. And even some of the apparently more educated ones such as Amien Rais have come out with the most extraordinary statements. Then there is Javanese culture that adds its own flavour to interpersonal relations.

I guess in the end Ryanair, the answer to your questions has to be selective listening but that raises as many questions as it answers.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Two Wifi Adapters In 1 PC: Better, Worse Or Same? posted Mon Jan 12 2009 19:10:40 by FLY2HMO
Best Hotels/resorts In Cancun (All Inclusive)? posted Thu Jul 6 2006 23:07:57 by Luisde8cd
What Is There To See And Do In Jakarta? posted Tue Jun 20 2006 19:09:04 by Ndebelebev
Two Bravest Men In The World posted Sat Feb 18 2006 11:28:25 by Rlwynn
Two Airline Boobs In Jarhead posted Sat Jan 21 2006 00:22:12 by Braybuddy
Two For One In Florida posted Thu Dec 22 2005 03:58:33 by ANCFlyer
Two Families Brawl In Courtroom posted Sat Nov 12 2005 05:49:32 by Falcon84
Two Men Held In U.S. Secret Detention posted Thu Aug 4 2005 03:14:20 by TUNisia
Why No Hotels Available In Nagoya? posted Thu Feb 24 2005 20:36:09 by VSLover
Massive Blast IN Jakarta posted Thu Sep 9 2004 06:37:25 by Greaser