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Bubba Heads To NK To Try To Save The Day  
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3749 times:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/08/03/nkorea.clinton/index.html

Hmmmm this is interesting. I mean I feel NK can't be bargained with at this point and will use these two women as leverage against us with their nuclear program but I find it interesting that Hilary is being upstaged by her hubby. Not to mention I would expect our President to go have a talk and solve everything. Very interesting indeed.

136 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3283 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3734 times:

President Clinton is apparently in transit to NK, has not yet arrived there.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/04/world/asia/04korea.html?_r=1&hp



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3700 times:

It ain't gonna work anyway. Krazy Kim will likely stick to what was dictated, and the reporters won't be released. Besides, it would not be convenient for Kim because then the reporters may even report of the most likely abuse of the prisoners who are forced to hard labour under the DPRK justice system (or lack thereof).

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19953 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3677 times:

I wonder what would happen if NK decided to detain Clinton for some crime they invent?

User currently offline7324ever From Serbia, joined May 2009, 563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3668 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
I wonder what would happen if NK decided to detain Clinton for some crime they invent?

Out of Iraq and into NK!

But in reality if they did something that monumentally stupid then there will be no more NK

Has there been any other US president standing or past that has been with Krazy Kim? I know there were presidents with China, Soviets, and Cuba but i've never heard of a one on one formal sit down with the 2. And at that. Were would he be staying? A day trip there then a quick hop on the VIP 757 no Seoul?



Anything the US and EU build the Russians do it better! i.e. TU-144 vs Concorde and TU-154 vs The 727...
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25768 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3663 times:

Man this is pretty embarrassing. Sending a former president to fetch journalist (aka CIA) out of a gulag.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8184 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3655 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
Man this is pretty embarrassing. Sending a former president to fetch journalist (aka CIA) out of a gulag.

Apparently you missed Colin Powell's interview the other day...based on his experiences, high-level contacts are the only way of dealing with DPRK - they are simply too skilled at negotiating.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12732 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3586 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Thread starter):
Bubba Heads To NK To Try To Save The Day

I guess he just can't win. Maybe he should have stayed home and done nothing. If nothing else, the families of those involved are appreciative, even if you aren't.

Quoting NIKV69 (Thread starter):
I would expect our President to go have a talk and solve everything

GWB style?

[Edited 2009-08-04 05:29:39]


Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineMax550 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3580 times:



Quoting 7324ever (Reply 4):
Has there been any other US president standing or past that has been with Krazy Kim?

Carter definitely went in '94, I don't know about any others.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 7):
I guess he just can't win. Maybe he should have stayed home and done nothing.

Our strategy over the past 7 years has worked so well, why should we try anything different?  Yeah sure


User currently offlineMichlis From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 737 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3564 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
I wonder what would happen if NK decided to detain Clinton for some crime they invent?

That may depend whether he is acting on his own or as an envoy for the Obama administration.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 6):
Apparently you missed Colin Powell's interview the other day...based on his experiences, high-level contacts are the only way of dealing with DPRK - they are simply too skilled at negotiating.

If you can equate extortion with negotiation.



If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8184 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3557 times:



Quoting Michlis (Reply 9):
If you can equate extortion with negotiation.

Call it what you want - but they know their position in the region and we know who their customers for their only dastardly export are - either way, they are in an advantageous negotiating position in any arena other than direct military confrontation.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineMichlis From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 737 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3535 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 10):
Call it what you want - but they know their position in the region and we know who their customers for their only dastardly export are - either way, they are in an advantageous negotiating position in any arena other than direct military confrontation.

Agreed and they know how to exploit it.



If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21681 posts, RR: 55
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3500 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Thread starter):
Not to mention I would expect our President to go have a talk and solve everything.

Remember all the fuss over his proposal to personally negotiate with Iran during the campaign? You'd be hearing it all over again.

Sending someone else is the right thing to do. Bill is a well-respected figure in the world, and he has the high-level clout you'd want, but he's not officially a part of the government, as Hillary is. So he's a pretty good choice.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8329 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3485 times:

Sending Bill Clinton is equal to sending a very high level official, while not actually sending an official. He is probably the best person to send - can you see asking Little Dick Cheney?

User currently offlineMichlis From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 737 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3482 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 13):
Sending Bill Clinton is equal to sending a very high level official, while not actually sending an official. He is probably the best person to send - can you see asking Little Dick Cheney?

In that case the North Koreans would likely not get their butts kissed.      

[Edited 2009-08-04 08:53:52]


If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.
User currently offlineJean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3468 times:



Quoting Michlis (Reply 14):
In that case the North Koreans would likely not get their butts kissed.

Right. Because if Kim didn't cooperate, Cheney could shoot him in the face.

JL



Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offlineMichlis From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 737 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3468 times:

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 15):
Right. Because if Kim didn't cooperate, Cheney could shoot him in the face.

Nothing so dramatic.  Yeah sure

[Edited 2009-08-04 09:05:20]


If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3438 times:



Quoting Max550 (Reply 8):
Our strategy over the past 7 years has worked so well, why should we try anything different?



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 13):
Sending Bill Clinton is equal to sending a very high level official, while not actually sending an official. He is probably the best person to send - can you see asking Little Dick Cheney?

Agreed. It is highly likely he was sent by the Sec State, and equally likely sent because a success was agreed in advance.

I might have egg on face, but not as likely as some other posters on this thread - then again, they might not want the two lasses back, because well are they really American? Hope they have not been using an Adelaide guy in their fake US passports.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2307802/posts

Soooo easy to pick


User currently offlineFuturePilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3406 times:

I know this is gonna sound mean, but North Korea has to make an example out of somebody. I hate NK as much as the next guy, but these two reporters knew what they were doing and the danger they were getting themselves in. One of the reporters, her sister did an "Explorer" documentary on NK, where they went in on a tourism package and filmed certain illegaly. I still enjoyed it though.

Anyway, these two reporters knew what they were doing. They knew how strict NK is and they still insisted on sneaking into their country just for the reason of wanting a good story. When will journalists learn not to push their luck in certain situations. Then they get caught and they want their country to rescue them, in an almost impossible situation when we have no diplomaic ties with this country. Somewhere along the line, we have got to stop this invasion of privacy stuff. If NK wants to be left alone, they should be left ALONE and american journalists who are simply looking for a juicy story should respect that, and if they're caught, then they should be dealt with properly. There is a reason why the country is so secretive, let the gov't worry about their relationship with NK, and all the jounalists itching for a nice juicy "humanitarian" story should just look somewhere easier.



"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11720 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3381 times:

Oh, isn't it a shame to use diplomacy to free two Americans trying to tell the world just how bad this regeme is. Americans taking care of Americans. That is really a shame. Why not just bomb the snot out of NK? Isn't that what Republicans want, I guess? Geez.... What is wrong with people?


Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineMichlis From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 737 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3377 times:



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 20):

More drama.  Yeah sure



If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6612 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3374 times:
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Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 18):
Anyway, these two reporters knew what they were doing.

Qouting Airplane!:

"Jack Kirkpatrick: Shanna, they bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3361 times:



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 13):
can you see asking Little Dick Cheney?

Yep , he would be perfect for it. The NK's would not be confused about the message being sent... with Bubba its a little more shady . I think we should have had a USMC Amphibious landing too and pick them up ... but that's just me.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 20):
What is wrong with people?

We don't appreciate our Allies being threatened with Nuclear annihilation ?? Yes ..that's it. We don't really like to kiss ass on the bullies ... we tend to stand up for ourselves and do what is right ...despite the consequences.



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offline7324ever From Serbia, joined May 2009, 563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3356 times:



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 18):
I know this is gonna sound mean, but North Korea has to make an example out of somebody. I hate NK as much as the next guy, but these two reporters knew what they were doing and the danger they were getting themselves in. One of the reporters, her sister did an "Explorer" documentary on NK, where they went in on a tourism package and filmed certain illegaly. I still enjoyed it though.

Anyway, these two reporters knew what they were doing. They knew how strict NK is and they still insisted on sneaking into their country just for the reason of wanting a good story. When will journalists learn not to push their luck in certain situations. Then they get caught and they want their country to rescue them, in an almost impossible situation when we have no diplomaic ties with this country. Somewhere along the line, we have got to stop this invasion of privacy stuff. If NK wants to be left alone, they should be left ALONE and american journalists who are simply looking for a juicy story should respect that, and if they're caught, then they should be dealt with properly. There is a reason why the country is so secretive, let the gov't worry about their relationship with NK, and all the jounalists itching for a nice juicy "humanitarian" story should just look somewhere easier.



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 19):
Oh, isn't it a shame to use diplomacy to free two Americans trying to tell the world just how bad this regeme is. Americans taking care of Americans. That is really a shame. Why not just bomb the snot out of NK? Isn't that what Republicans want, I guess? Geez.... What is wrong with people?



How do they deserve it? They got caught up in the backwards ass Red government in NK and Kim was only doing this because the reporters are American and he is trying to make a stupid point that NK is not afraid of the US by holding the prisoners.



Anything the US and EU build the Russians do it better! i.e. TU-144 vs Concorde and TU-154 vs The 727...
User currently offlineMSNDC9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3350 times:



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 18):
I know this is gonna sound mean, but North Korea has to make an example out of somebody. I hate NK as much as the next guy, but these two reporters knew what they were doing and the danger they were getting themselves in. One of the reporters, her sister did an "Explorer" documentary on NK, where they went in on a tourism package and filmed certain illegaly. I still enjoyed it though.

You can add these three idiots into the mix too:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32280801/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/


25 MaverickM11 : If only! The world has tried diplomacy with NK for how long? And what have we gotten?
26 NIKV69 : Hide the women. Appreciative of what? Where is the Obama administration? Also give it a rest with GWB, that argument is so lame it's not even funny.
27 Ken777 : CNN just announced that the two would be heading home. Looks like Old Bill did the job - but that isn't a big shock. The pardons have been announced a
28 AGM100 : Yes .. in my opinion it ended well.... and President Clinton got some face time. Ready the Nobel peace prize ... !!
29 MSNDC9 : Yeah, lets just throw the Constitution under the bus...
30 AGM100 : I apologize ... I thought about it after I posted it. I usually use the proper title as I did on my follow up post. President Clinton is a very smart
31 Mt99 : When did AQ say: "We are afraid of GWB"?
32 Tugger : Neither the President, not the Sec. State could have done this and I would not have wanted them to. The "legitimacy argument" would have been dragged
33 Post contains links StasisLAX : North Korea can't be bargained with, eh??? Me thinks today's release of the two journalists from NK proves you wrong. Source: http://www.nytimes.com/
34 Ken777 : It's not the Constitution - rather an Amendment that was brought in after FDR died and the country had a hard time accepting the gap he left after so
35 Mt99 : It got 2 Americans home!
36 FuturePilot16 : I'm not gonna lie, it's really nice to see these ladies come home, I hope they've learned their lesson. I wonder what this says about NK though? I mea
37 DocLightning : So you two would rather go in there with guns blazing and start a war? We have the bigger stick and NK knows that. They are well aware that we could
38 Post contains images Michlis : How does this translate into wanting to start a war?   [Edited 2009-08-04 13:51:29]
39 DocLightning : Guess StasisLAX beat you to it. FuturePilot, you need to stop seeing the world in such a slanted way. The goal was to get these two women back safely
40 Michlis : [/quote] This coming from the guy who is spinning hard in the opposite direction.
41 DocLightning : And yet in the very next post, someone said exactly what he predicted and rebutted. And that made that post look very silly. I have to say the timing
42 Springbok747 : Wow...wonder what promises were made..maybe he invited lil' Kim over to the White House for a beer with Pres. Obama. How? NK have the upper hand here.
43 Michlis : Does he drink beer?[Edited 2009-08-04 14:45:03]
44 Michlis : So be it. Now, back to prior matters. You still haven't answered my question.
45 StasisLAX : Not at all - long-time registered Libertarian here. I just hate the policies of division, fear, neo-conservativism, and "just say no" of the Republic
46 AGM100 : No one was killed ...that is good. But NK got something .... they were bought off somehow. I see the Merritt of it .. But personally speaking a MH-47
47 DocLightning : Yup. And we graciously let them have it, took our people back, and left quietly. Sometimes, you have to do that. We STILL have the bigger stick. We s
48 StasisLAX : In fact, sabre rattling is probably the WORSE policy to use with the uber-paranoid Kim Jong Il.
49 Michlis : And I was responding to a quip from another member; I wasn't advocating crossing the DMZ.
50 DocLightning : Then advocate something, rather than complain. Never complain, suggest.
51 MaverickM11 : Now, about that nuclear arsenal.... Not necessarily, but clearly diplomacy thus far has only exacerbated the situation, Current journalists aside.
52 Michlis : Whose complaining? You know what, I really don't care.
53 QANTAS077 : AQ loved Bush...they knew he was dumb enough to go to war in Iraq and open up a new battle-front for them, anyone scared of AQ needs their head exami
54 FuturePilot16 : LOL, what shots? . Here is the problem, these two women are american citzens who broke the law in another country, therefore, they stand trial in tha
55 LTU932 : How so? Kim is a ruthless dicator, that has been established for a long time. And even if he is dying of pancreatic cancer, it doesn't mean Kim will
56 Tugger : You know it's coming! Tomorrow, I'll bet. Can't let this opportunity to bash Clinton (both), the administration, and the Democrats slide by. Now sayi
57 DocLightning : Um... they claim they weren't in NK. They were legally in China and kidnapped by NK. So if you were Dictator for Life, how would you have handled thi
58 FuturePilot16 : I don't believe that. They were both Asian and i'm sticking to the fact that the NK did not know they were american. If you or me or even other Asian
59 DocLightning : If they didn't, then it wouldn't have taken long to figure out that they were. And once NK had them, they made a major stink of it. Your assumption t
60 Aaron747 : We're relying on Al Qaeda malcontents for reliable opinions now? Talk about serving the dregs from the bottom of the barrel. You clearly have no conc
61 FuturePilot16 : Of course, I know that. I see where your point is coming from, but from OUR point of view, it wasn't a fair trial. They have different laws there. In
62 AGM100 : Really ? They did not need Iraq to do there dirty work .. or do we forget Sept 10th? And please remember they lost in Iraq ...there psychotic terror
63 747WanSui : Back when I first heard about the journalists and their trial, I had a gut feeling that they would be released no later than Labor Day (September 7).
64 AGM100 : Gee how did you know that Tom .... amazing ! Are you friends with the dear leader ?
65 Yellowstone : We (mostly) beat them after we let them in in the first place. We handed them a loss, sure, but we could have denied them the chance even to try for
66 L-188 : I am still trying decide who is emulating A: Jesse Jackson who made "saves" to keep his name in the paper and himself relevent. Or B: Jimmy Carter who
67 Baroque : Might it not be that your cabal has close to zero cred? The nature of this mission was obvious from the moment it was announced and don't say you wer
68 L-188 : More likely is that Obama was tied to it and Clinton gave the DPRK a internal prestige boost that they where looking for but did not deserve.
69 AGM100 : Hey , the Pittsburgh Pirates should try that . Thank you ... your exactly right. I know its not a good idea , but it would be inspiring if it was suc
70 Klima : At least the journalists are coming home. I wonder if Mr. Clinton will show up in Iran tomorrow to bring home the hikers?
71 RussianJet : Pure speculation. We don't know who knew what or why. True. Also very true. The important word in that phrase being 'claim'. That is far from an esta
72 AirframeAS : What did the North Koreans want in exchange for releasing the two women?
73 Baroque : Just have to be patient? Of course Obama was in the loop. What sort of a gimcrack govt do you guys think you have. And what internal prestige boost w
74 Pellegrine : Good for Bill Clinton, showing people how to get things done with a smile, wave, and a friendly visit instead of sabre-rattling and military follies .
75 NIKV69 : Good lord do you even know the story? NK was the one that said they wanted Clinton to come and nobody else. This was a propaganda stunt and we played
76 Mt99 : Is it me or is that a little bit racist? The all look the same! Yes we should have allowed 2 Americans to have served the 12 years in infra human con
77 Michlis : According to a briefing I read (open source/non-classified) it was used as an opportunity to get to Kim Jong and offer an all or nothing deal concern
78 NIKV69 : Kind of like when Rosie made fun of how they talk on the view too? In all seriousness NK knew at some point they were American and knew they had a ba
79 Post contains links Dtwclipper : Really? What do you think they were doing all those years? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_abductions_of_Japanese On 17 September 2002, Jap
80 Mt99 : Yes - Just like that. What is your point? Boy comparing FuturePilot to Rosie - you are so mean.
81 FuturePilot16 : No it's not! How hard for is it see that a lot of non asian people cannot tell a chinese person from a japanese person. How many times have we seen a
82 Aaron747 : It's that attitude that gives them the tiny shreds of legitimacy they have. Sorry - but that's the reality in the world of realpolitik. AQ is a bunch
83 NIKV69 : That is funny FOX just reported NOTHING about the nuclear program was discussd when Clinton was there. Your making this sound like we did this. Get t
84 Michlis : The source of this information is not the media outlets. I would gladly point you to the briefing I read, but it is subscription only and I cannot re
85 AirPacific747 : Kudos til Bill Clinton! Wish he was still the president of the USA!
86 Michlis : Clinton didn't negotiate their release. Kudos to him for playing along, but it was the North Koreans who set the stage and scripted him for this part
87 Baroque : I am pretty sure it is not you Mt99 but it is racist as are the feelings guiding a fair few posts in this thread. They aren't real Murcans are they?
88 Max550 : I'd like to see how the state-run media in NK portray this. It would be interesting to see how they would spin this into a story about the "evil US."
89 Michlis : In a closed society like North Korea it's not about the people; it's about those in power and what they want the people to believe.
90 RussianJet : I agree. My girlfriend is Asian, and other Asian nationalities regularly mistake her for one of her own.
91 FuturePilot16 : I personally think that they wanted nothing but PR. After all the damage that was done with their Missile testing in the last few months, they needed
92 Max550 : Right, but by having no relations with those in power they can tell the people anything they want with no reason for anyone to doubt them.
93 Michlis : On the contrary, even if you have relations with the country it still doesn't prevent the government from twisting the state of those relations.
94 Max550 : How do they twist this into something evil we've done? I know that their media is still going to tell the people what the leaders want them to be tol
95 NIKV69 : Sorry but I am calling Bravo Sierra here, I doubt very highly anything nuclear was talked about NK is not going to change their position on them what
96 Michlis : But they have to see it in order for their minds to be changed. They see the world through the lens of the North Korean government and that lens will
97 NIKV69 : Well I did find it odd that he was going but when I heard that NK demanded he go as the only way to the release it made sense. I think in a way it do
98 Post contains links Tugger : This is why Bill Clinton was the only one who could do it, it could not be "official" but the appeance of such gave the NK's what they needed. A wise
99 Michlis : The only thing they were really looking for was a celebrity. Kim Jong is known for his fascination with celebreties and frequently invites them for v
100 DocLightning : Clinton did his part of the job. You can't fault him for that. We got our people back. Please quote where I said that.
101 Michlis : I give credit where credit is due, and he certainly deserves the credit for the role he played.[Edited 2009-08-05 09:16:11]
102 Michlis : In fairness NIK, after re-reading my post and re-reading the briefing, the level of certainty that I stated was not correct. The briefing states that
103 Baroque : Yes you did, and duly noted, on the + side too.
104 AirPacific747 : And where did I state that Clinton did negotiate their release?
105 Michlis : Clarifying the "kudos" that's all.
106 NIKV69 : U didn't it but you infer that we are bullies because of our stances in the middle east and otherwise. That was predetermined the second NK caught th
107 Springbok747 : The very fact that Current TV sent in 2 Asian women reporters (one of whom is a South Korean) was to snoop around without arousing suspicion. If that
108 RussianJet : Exactly, well said. As per the previous thread I posted on the original matter, their story is just not credible. They rely on the fact that everyone
109 StasisLAX : Exactly correct. This is what Obama and HIlary Clinton mean when they use the terminology "smart diplomacy" - extend an open hand whenever appropriat
110 GDB : Nice to see some Americans so concerned about the welfare of their fellow citizens abroad. Of course for some, being 'abroad' is bad enough in the fir
111 AGM100 : And don't discount their northern "ally".... 3 million Chinese infantrymen coming across the border. People discount my comments that NK is basically
112 Santosdumont : Jesus, with all this right-wing Freeper bullshit flying hither and yon, has anybody taken five seconds to say "Welcome Home, Euna Lee and Laura Ling!"
113 Mt99 : See.. they much rather had Rambo come in alone - take them out of Pyongyang while hanging out of a helicopter while the older but wiser side kick dod
114 DocLightning : Because they hate each-other? Yup. I stand by that. We invaded a sovereign nation with no cause at all. In fact, the causes were made up. If that's n
115 Baroque : You might like to ask your father if he remembers why the Chinese infantrymen crossed the border. Hint Taking advantage of the UN Command’s strateg
116 Mir : Yeah, he's the leader of a bunch of malcontents who hate the US, and everything about it, with an intense and illogical passion. Why do you care abou
117 MD11Engineer : As I've said in some other thread about this case, it is quite possible that the women strayed (or got lured there by a contact) onto North Korean so
118 RussianJet : As was also recounted at some length in a thread I started a while back, the border is the Yalu river. It should be abundantly clear which country yo
119 L-188 : AHHH they shouldn't have been over there in the first place.....Signed Moe.
120 Pellegrine : Why should that matter. Weapons and political prisoners are two different things. And honestly in all reality, USA and NK are both allowed by soverei
121 RussianJet : Only thing I'm going to say to them is count yourselves very, very lucky, and don't go engaging in such deliberately provocative exploits in the futu
122 Post contains links Baroque : Er well not from Chifeng to Mt Paektu it is not. Do we know where they were nabbed? http://chinaperspectives.revues.org/document806.html The Yalu and
123 Post contains links and images NIKV69 : Again you have no grasp of the facts and are trying to manufacture a story. NK told the two women that if Bubba made the trip (which he promised when
124 Santosdumont : And you can substantiate this how? So what was the truth? They were actually staying at the Pyongyang Hyatt and wanted to go home because the mini-ba
125 NIKV69 : Watch the news. No again if you watched the news you would have heard they were caught trespassing, tried and convicted. The delay in sending the to
126 Pellegrine : Look whatever kind of prisoner you like. What exactly are you upset over lol? Clinton did his thing, good Americans home! All gravy! What in the worl
127 D L X : Actually, I've heard snippets suggesting that they were picked up, get this: IN CHINA! As in, NK went across the boarder and grabbed them. If that tu
128 Yellowstone : Don't know where exactly they were picked up, but they did admit that they had crossed into NK, albeit inadvertantly. I would assume, therefore, that
129 Santosdumont : And take what Clinton's handlers say to the media at face value? That's the first habit one is forced to break when working in Washington for any per
130 DocLightning : NIKV wants to hate anything he views as "Liberal." This means that he is blind to any facts unless he can spin them to be "anti-Liberal." What NIKV i
131 StasisLAX : What a good week for the Administration and the country: 1) Sotomayor confirmed (with more Republican support than anyone thought, perhaps the seeds
132 DocLightning : And yet, NIKV manages to. Impressive, innit?
133 RussianJet : " target=_blank>http://chinaperspectives.revues.org/....html Indeed. Hopefully they were nabbed somewhere on dry land. However, the fact that matters
134 Baroque : But seriously, can you work out where the border actually IS?? That ref I gave suggests scores of fairly major disputes about it and apparently some
135 RussianJet : Indeed not, which is why I wouldn't choose to go wandering about in that particular area. Still, if I were an American journalist of Korean origin, m
136 MD11Engineer : In West Berlin the border between East Germany and West Berlin near the Glieniker Bridge (famous for many handovers of spies during Cold War) was off
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