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Will Iran Be As Easy As NK?  
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1800 times:

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/br...3-US-Tourists-Kurds--52259587.html

Now I am not sure Iran will request Bubba come but how do we get these three back? I get the feeling this won't be as easy. Once the honeymoon fades on the two journalists who just landed from NK wears off this will need to be addressed.

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12593 posts, RR: 34
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1748 times:

It's so hard to tell; maybe they will "process them" quickly as a goodwill gesture, but there will be some price to pay, behind the scenes.

I have to say, however, that they need a right clip around the ear when they get back stateside; surely, there comes a time when you're planning a hiking expedition when the red flag goes up and you have to say, "is this completely wise"? Americans hiking along the Iran/Iraq border must surely fit into that category.

The last thing anyone needs is idiots like these forcing concessions.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1721 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 1):
It's so hard to tell; maybe they will "process them" quickly as a goodwill gesture, but there will be some price to pay, behind the scenes.

At this point it will be only to ease the backing of Isreal so this will get hairy for sure. I will tell you this won't be as easy as sending Bubba for a photo op.


User currently offlineNighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5182 posts, RR: 33
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1705 times:

I think Iran will be even easier than North korea - I dont see this becoming a big issue.

There are a few key differences here - the US journalists were working for an online TV company, and deliberately entered the country to film. They were sentenced and convicted of their crime.

The tourists here mearly got lost and wandered across the border. I dont believe they have been charged, at leats not yet.

Personally I dont really see Iran as an overly aggressive nation, they have persued nuclear ambitions for a while, for what they say is power generation, which has led to isolation and sanctions. While they may feel a bit bitter about this and possibly have an axe to grind, I think its a perfect oppertunity to show they are not an aggressive nation.

Rather than make a big deal out of it and try and get a deal out of it, I think they will simply release the tourists with a slap on the wrist, hoping it will demonstrate that they are a peaceful nation and further prove they have no interest in developing nuclear weapons.

The most I see happening is Iran waiting until the US speaks to them directly and asks for their release. There have been no diplomatic releations between them for years, so simply waiting for direct contact may be enough of a victory for them. I cant see them using these tourists as a serious bargaining chip.



That'll teach you
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13252 posts, RR: 77
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1700 times:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/cart...09/aug/05/bill-clinton-north-korea

User currently offlineSantosdumont From Brazil, joined Dec 2003, 1201 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1699 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Thread starter):
I get the feeling this won't be as easy.

Indeed. The situation is considerably more delicate and requires significant strategery. Send GWB.



"Pursuit Of Truth No Matter Where It Lies" -- Metallica
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1692 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Thread starter):
Now I am not sure Iran will request Bubba come but how do we get these three back?

They are not likely to want to meet Shrub. Then again, Khamenei and Shrub deserve each other, so is that possibly a way to send him?


User currently offlineBlrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1426 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1690 times:

I was listening to NPR last week, and one person on the program clearly said that the hikers would have to go a long way out to wander into Iran "by mistake". Too many coincidences of Americans wandering into hostile countries "by mistake" these days.

[Edited 2009-08-06 10:08:03]

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20335 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1679 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 1):
I have to say, however, that they need a right clip around the ear when they get back stateside;

 thumbsup  Sometimes, beatings are really the only effective way to communicate with some people...

(rant)
OMG. You went HIKING along the IRAN/IRAQ border? You wanted to go for a HIKE

I'm no American patriot, but I have to grant that we have the most gorgeous single country I have ever seen. It's beautiful, with spacious skies and amber waves of grain and purple mountain magesties above the fruited plain.

Seriously, next time, try the Rockies. They AREN'T crawling with Iranian border guards.

And now, my tax dollars have to save these yahoo's butts. Oh. My. God. Some people's children...
(/rant)


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1674 times:



Quoting Blrsea (Reply 7):
the hikers would have to go a long way out to wander into Iran "by mistake". Too many coincidences of Americans wandering into hostile countries "by mistake" these days.

These three people never seemed much like hikers or tourists to me. It is not that they were wandering in the streets of Tehran talking to local people and trying to find out about Iranian culture, arts, or history. Their goal was other than that of tourists or hikers.

Imagine Iran would go after every tourist/foreign visitor that gets off every plane at Tehran airport every day and hijack them? They don't do that. These 3 were obviously something different than your regular tourist/hiker with different motivations.

I hope the issue will be resolved diplomatically but it should not be repeated too frequently or the Iranians might just say enough is enough.



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20335 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1674 times:



Quoting Baroque (Reply 6):
Then again, Khamenei and Shrub deserve each other.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Can we send your Mr. Howard, too?


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1670 times:



Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 3):
Personally I dont really see Iran as an overly aggressive nation,

I think the recent crack down against election protesters demonstrates something different.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1640 times:



Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 3):
The tourists here mearly got lost and wandered across the border. I dont believe they have been charged, at leats not yet.

Why would you even be close enough to make that mistake?

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 3):
Personally I dont really see Iran as an overly aggressive nation, they have persued nuclear ambitions for a while, for what they say is power generation, which has led to isolation and sanctions. While they may feel a bit bitter about this and possibly have an axe to grind, I think its a perfect oppertunity to show they are not an aggressive nation.

I am sorry but I think you are way off here.

Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 5):
Indeed. The situation is considerably more delicate and requires significant strategery. Send GWB.

Well it sure would be better than sending Bubba. Besides Iran hasn't requested him like NK did so Obama will have his hands full here.

Quoting Blrsea (Reply 7):
I was listening to NPR last week, and one person on the program clearly said that the hikers would have to go a long way out to wander into Iran "by mistake". Too many coincidences of Americans wandering into hostile countries "by mistake" these days.

I agree.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
I'm no American patriot,

Really?  duck 

Quoting STT757 (Reply 11):
I think the recent crack down against election protesters demonstrates something different

Or maybe the fact they have been vocal about wanting to destroy Israel?


User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1633 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 12):
Well it sure would be better than sending Bubba.

I'll pay you $500 the first time any US president sends GWB to any nation for any such mission for the rest of GWB's life.


UAL


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20335 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1604 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 12):



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 12):

Well it sure would be better than sending Bubba.

Why? Because Bubba succeeded at a captive return in NK and thus, shouldn't be trusted with the situation in Iran?

Wow, you really can't see anything other than your hatred for anything that you consider "liberal."


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1594 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
Why? Because Bubba succeeded at a captive return in NK and thus, shouldn't be trusted with the situation in Iran?

Do you even know what happened? Your talking like Bubba took it upon himself to go there and say some magic words to free someone who was captured.

Now lets look at the reality of the situation.

These two journalists trespassed and were caught on NK soil. NK saw it as a way to earn a propaganda victory. They demanded Clinton come or they wouldn't release them. This was conveyed to the US from the two journalists who were allowed to make daily calls to their family. Clinton went a took a few pics with Kim Jong.

If you are going to exploit notions can we make sure they are somewhat factual and not the CNN spin. You talk like Bubba worked some magic when in fact he was just following a ruthless dictators wishes. We played ball buddy. Which under the circumstances was needed to get two foolish women back instead of spending a long period of time in a bad labor camp. Just don't make it sound like they were kidnapped. Remember we didn't go get them, they were given amensty.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
Wow, you really can't see anything other than your hatred for anything that you consider "liberal."

When it comes to the safety of this country and our future yea because your liberal president is turning us into a huge mess. Just check his approval rating.


User currently offlineSantosdumont From Brazil, joined Dec 2003, 1201 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1582 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 15):
If you are going to exploit notions can we make sure they are somewhat factual and not the CNN spin. You talk like Bubba worked some magic when in fact he was just following a ruthless dictators wishes.

Speaking of facts, were you privvy to what was discussed between Clinton and the Kim-meister?

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 15):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
Wow, you really can't see anything other than your hatred for anything that you consider "liberal."

When it comes to the safety of this country and our future yea because your liberal president is turning us into a huge mess. Just check his approval rating.

How many terrorist attacks have there been since Obama took office?

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 15):
We played ball buddy. Which under the circumstances was needed to get two foolish women back instead of spending a long period of time in a bad labor camp. Just don't make it sound like they were kidnapped.

Those chicks probably deserved to get caught, right? Better yet, what if it's like date rape? Maybe they actually wanted to do 12 years in a NoKor gulag.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 12):
Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 5):
Indeed. The situation is considerably more delicate and requires significant strategery. Send GWB.

Well it sure would be better than sending Bubba.

It would've dispensed the need for an interpreter...who would have the patience to wait for GWB to form a complete sentence? Plus, he'd probably write up one of those rock-star type contracts demanding that his Pyongyang hotel room be stocked with Grey Goose and the finest Colombian blow. That and pretzels.



"Pursuit Of Truth No Matter Where It Lies" -- Metallica
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1567 times:



Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 16):
Speaking of facts, were you privvy to what was discussed between Clinton and the Kim-meister?

Nothing was discussed. Nothing about the Nuclear issue. Bubba basically ate and took a few pics.

Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 16):
How many terrorist attacks have there been since Obama took office?



Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 16):
Those chicks probably deserved to get caught, right? Better yet, what if it's like date rape? Maybe they actually wanted to do 12 years in a NoKor gulag.

They made their bed, my point was that Doc Lightning was trying to exploit the notion these two women were taken hostage or wrongfully detained. When this was not the truth. Are you saying that if we are caught in a foreign country and get due process we don't have to do any time? Just need a ex-pres to show and charm the pants off the government?

Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 16):
It would've dispensed the need for an interpreter...who would have the patience to wait for GWB to form a complete sentence

Of course, they could have just set up a teleprompter and stole a speech from someone huh?


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1543 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 6):
Then again, Khamenei and Shrub deserve each other.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Can we send your Mr. Howard, too?

Sure can, we are looking for a small Aus Post cardboard box as I write. In memory of the old Commonwealth, the UK should throw in BLiar as a job lot. The Ayatollahs would love a Shrub, a man of steel and a BLiar all at the same time - they make a great set.

The most amazing thing is that some of the Right seem to think that Shrub has any positive image outside the gated communities of the US. By contrast, Clinton is still a popular figure throughout most of the world, even in some parts of the US I am lead to believe!!
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/09/18/060918fa_fact1

I note that Santos and I were writing nearly the same post at the same time. I guess it should give half of us on this thread pause for thought that some actually think that Shrub and Clinton are even remotely comparable.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20335 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1542 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 15):

Do you even know what happened? Your talking like Bubba took it upon himself to go there and say some magic words to free someone who was captured.

Yup. That's exactly what he did. And we got our people back, humbly, apologetically, and responsibly.

Which is exactly what he was sent to do. The Bush Administration would NEVER have done that and those two women would still be there right now.

And so you trash Clinton for successfully completing a job that I am SURE he really wanted to have to do... I'm SURE he loved leaving his semi-retirement for a schlep around the world to release two hostages from North Korea. Even if he got a private 737 to do it (no match for AF-1)


User currently offlineSantosdumont From Brazil, joined Dec 2003, 1201 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1505 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 17):
Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 16):
Speaking of facts, were you privvy to what was discussed between Clinton and the Kim-meister?

Nothing was discussed. Nothing about the Nuclear issue. Bubba basically ate and took a few pics.

You know this how? Did your people give you a read-out of the meeting?

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 17):
Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 16):
How many terrorist attacks have there been since Obama took office?

Sorry, couldn't resist getting a Cavuto in there 

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 17):
Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 16):

Those chicks probably deserved to get caught, right? Better yet, what if it's like date rape? Maybe they actually wanted to do 12 years in a NoKor gulag.

They made their bed, my point was that Doc Lightning was trying to exploit the notion these two women were taken hostage or wrongfully detained. When this was not the truth. Are you saying that if we are caught in a foreign country and get due process we don't have to do any time? Just need a ex-pres to show and charm the pants off the government?

How can you even (unsuccessfully) attempt to use the words "due process" and NoKor in the same post? Look....the drill in 98% of the civilized world is if you get caught entering a foreign country without authorization you're deported.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 17):
Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 16):
It would've dispensed the need for an interpreter...who would have the patience to wait for GWB to form a complete sentence

Of course, they could have just set up a teleprompter and stole a speech from someone huh

At least it would've been lucid.

[Edited 2009-08-07 06:53:22]


"Pursuit Of Truth No Matter Where It Lies" -- Metallica
User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5869 posts, RR: 39
Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1502 times:

Nik, give up while you're slightly behind...its almost cringe-worth the rubbish you post, actually, its embarrassing.


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1480 times:



Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 21):
give up while you're slightly behind.

I had not previously picked your English art of understatement QF077. Big grin
Makes you think.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1465 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
Yup. That's exactly what he did. And we got our people back, humbly, apologetically, and responsibly.

No he didn't, he bowed to a dictators wishes to get two people back who were detained legally.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
Which is exactly what he was sent to do.

Again your stating something that is not true. He was summoned, not sent. Could you please stick to the facts and not manufacture them?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
And so you trash Clinton for successfully completing a job that I am SURE he really wanted to have to do

Can you please point out what post of mine trashes Clinton? Again your manufacturing things instead of sticking to the truth.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
I'm SURE he loved leaving his semi-retirement for a schlep around the world to release two hostages from North Korea

They weren't hostages, they weren't kidnapped. Can we please dispense with this fantasy?

Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 20):
You know this how? Did your people give you a read-out of the meeting?

CNN and FOX both reported it.

Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 20):
How can you even (unsuccessfully) attempt to use the words "due process" and NoKor in the same post? Look....the drill in 98% of the civilized world is if you get caught entering a foreign country without authorization you're deported.

Yea but those other instrances don't include a country that wants us to leave them alone so they can build nukes and wants to win a propaganda victory.

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 21):
Nik, give up while you're slightly behind...its almost cringe-worth the rubbish you post, actually, its embarrassing.

You really shouldn't be giving opinions on what people post Monty.


User currently offlineCws818 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1176 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1457 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
Again your stating something that is not true. He was summoned, not sent. Could you please stick to the facts and not manufacture them?

His presence was requested, and he agreed to go.



volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
25 Santosdumont : But they weren't there at the meeting. Clinton's handlers gave them a prepared statement, which does not necessarily reflect what really went on. Man
26 DocLightning : So you deny that he got our people back. (Yes, you did deny it. I said "he got our people back." You said "No he didn't.") I see. So what would you h
27 ME AVN FAN : - exceedingly weird ! But possibly just a start to something. Wandering in eastern Iraq and across the Khyber Pass from Pakistan into Afghanistan wil
28 Us330 : LOL. Look on the bright side, at least they weren't missionaries as well--remember that story a year or two ago? It's a bit too late for that, consid
29 Baroque : Interesting that nobody has suggested a perfectly logical reason to be there that links with plenty of other theories. Those mountains have been crawl
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