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Obama's Priorities  
User currently offlinePropilot83 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 602 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2718 times:

Congress is now in recess until the fall of this year. Once they are back in session, their first top priority is to pass health care legislation/reform. Then whats next, Obama mentioned that the House has already proposed an Energy Bill that is pending in the Senate right now. Financial Regulatory Reform is another hot topic to pass hopefully by the end of this year. Next year 2010, Obama will be working on Immigration Reform. You see the President stated in Mexico a few days ago, that Immigration Reform has to wait, because we cant just bundle all these proposals together and eventually fail on all of them. So Obama's first priority is to pass Health Care Reform in which I am totally for 100%, then the Energy Bill will be next, we'll have to see what that is about, then Financial Regulatory Reform (to combat and police Wallstreet to prevent another devastating recession). I watch CSPAN and CSPAN 2, its amazing how our government works and what they really do, dont be fooled. People are really creating myths about the current health care reform in townhall meetings that arent even true, the final conclusion is, God do people in this country really want Health Care Reform? I mean I dont understand, Obama is a great President, he's trying to give out the right word and ignorant people are just hell bent over it. I want cheaper co-pays and less deductibles....dont you? I want cheaper premiums....dont you?

135 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2710 times:



Quoting Propilot83 (Thread starter):
Energy Bill

I hope they push some wind energy. I live in Oklahoma, and there is too much flat land and waaay too much wind here not to harness it.

Quoting Propilot83 (Thread starter):
People are really creating myths about the current health care reform in townhall meetings that arent even true, the final conclusion is, God do people in this country really want Health Care Reform?

I don't get it either. Death Panels? Pshhh....

I GUARAN-DAMN-TEE you that these people, when faced with a reality, would take the cheaper/free healthcare in a heartbeat. Heck, I would! Healthcare is expensive! Medication is expensive!

But it all a boils down to this, and I'm going to make a blunt statement here, but I think much of these "arguments" against anything liberal/democrat are because 1. We have a black president, 2. We have a woman secretary of state, 3. We have a Latina as a Supreme Court Judge. The racism and bigotry, albeit very underlying, is what is fueling all this wild behavior. It's sad, but I don't think that the US, well, some parts, can take that much change at one time because of their fears. They know it's not PC to display those fears outright, so they are masking them with a lot of these demonstrations and outright disrespectful behavior.

For those who want to say it's not disrespectful, how many of you would show up to an event with an elected official and start yelling or start booing?

Sorry, but I think this all centers around anything differing from WASP.

UAL


User currently offlineFr8Mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5470 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2681 times:



Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
But it all a boils down to this, and I'm going to make a blunt statement here, but I think much of these "arguments" against anything liberal/democrat are because 1. We have a black president, 2. We have a woman secretary of state, 3. We have a Latina as a Supreme Court Judge. The racism and bigotry, albeit very underlying, is what is fueling all this wild behavior. It's sad, but I don't think that the US, well, some parts, can take that much change at one time because of their fears. They know it's not PC to display those fears outright, so they are masking them with a lot of these demonstrations and outright disrespectful behavior.

Oh, horse-shit. We're pissed because we have a leftist president and a leftist majority congress who are hell-bent on taking away our liberties.

We've had a female SOS before, we've had a black SOS. We've had a black, female SOS before.

Sotomayor, while qualified to be an Associate Justice, has not, too me and several others, reconcilied her previous statements about her race and experience with those during her confirmation hearings. She is an elitist.

What is fueling this wild behaviour is what we see. Our country is transforming right before our eyes. Banks being nationalized. Car manufactuers being nationalized. Attempts to nationalize healthcare. Attacks on our prosperity by by heaping new energy taxes under the guise of 'saving the planet'.

As for healthcare reform: read the bill. I have. You think you're premiums will go down? Yes, your healthcare premium may go down, but your taxes will go up. Quality healthcare...wait in line. Do you like your Anthem, Aetna, UHC or any other...say goodbye, because once the insurance company tries to amend you coverage, the policy is null and void.

Obama and gang are talking out their butts. They are trying to ram his thing down our throats, but we're starting to choke. If this is such a fantastic bill, why did they try to pass it without debate or the light of day?

Obama's priorities are to move the country as far left as possible by pushing entitlements to as many folks as possible. It's that simple. People will get hooked on entitlements.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
For those who want to say it's not disrespectful, how many of you would show up to an event with an elected official and start yelling or start booing?

All I have to say is: Code Pink, PETA, Earth First, etc. These groups routinely disrupt political meetings for their agenda.

And what about energy? Any bill that limits our ability to produce energy within our own borders or off our own coast, will limit our growth and leave us depenent on foreign sources. I'm all for new forms of energy, but how about we invent, build and deploy the new energy before we kill off oil? And what about nuclear? Haven't heard much there. Wind power, all for it, but what about the Kennedys?

Quoting Propilot83 (Thread starter):
Financial Regulatory Reform (to combat and police Wallstreet to prevent another devastating recession)

Recessions will occur. They have to occur. It's part of the business cycle. It's when government tries to prevent recessions or lessen their effects that they are deep and painful. Financial reform is a buzzterm for 'making it all fair'. Unfortunately, too many folks in power conflate 'fair' with 'equal'. If legislation attempts to make us all equal, we are doomed.

There are criminals out there and they need to be dealt with, but overhauling the financial system is not the way to get them.

Quoting Propilot83 (Thread starter):
Obama is a great President,

Really, you can say that after 200 or so days? I think he's out of his element.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineFlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7187 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2666 times:



Quoting Propilot83 (Thread starter):
I mean I dont understand, Obama is a great President, he's trying to give out the right word and ignorant people are just hell bent over it. I want cheaper co-pays and less deductibles....dont you? I want cheaper premiums....dont you?

Yea anything you save in that will go into your TAXES! Sure cheaper healthcare would be nice but I would much rather pay a bit more and get good healthcare, no waits, no lines, no weeks waiting list for an MRI or to see a hand specialist. I saw a specialist in two days I ask for blood work and got it. I have had MRI's the next day that is the way it supposed to be, but it wont be like that if this bill passes the way it is.

Quoting Propilot83 (Thread starter):
Next year 2010,

Hopefully the year all the moderates wake up, which they are and Republicans can gain some seats and maybe even control of one of the houses.

Quoting Propilot83 (Thread starter):
then Financial Regulatory Reform (to combat and police Wallstreet to prevent another devastating recession)

This is a good thing? It was the democrats that thought the banks where not lending enough to the poor that got us in this mess to begin with. Free market is what has gotten the United States to where it is why would we want to regulate it more. Recessions are part of the economic cycle.

Quoting Propilot83 (Thread starter):
an Energy Bill

I am all for an energy bill especially one with wind power and natural gas as long as it does not limit other means of production too much and tax it too the moon which we all know it probably will.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
Oh, horse-shit. We're pissed because we have a leftist president and a leftist majority congress who are hell-bent on taking away our liberties.

 bigthumbsup   checkmark 
And they complained about the patriot act.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
All I have to say is: Code Pink, PETA, Earth First, etc. These groups routinely disrupt political meetings for their agenda.

Exactly! They did it the last 8 years why can;t we have our turn? No that means we must be a racist group that only hates President Obama because we hate blacks, Hispanics, and Women?

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
1. We have a black president, 2. We have a woman secretary of state, 3. We have a Latina as a Supreme Court Judge. The racism and bigotry, albeit very underlying, is what is fueling all this wild behavior. I

I really take little bit of offense to that statement I am a Hispanic registered republican, I hate Obama and hate Sotomayor does that mean I am racist??



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineFuturePilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2651 times:



Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
I hope they push some wind energy. I live in Oklahoma, and there is too much flat land and waaay too much wind here not to harness it.

Yea that's a smart idea.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
Oh, horse-shit. We're pissed because we have a leftist president and a leftist majority congress who are hell-bent on taking away our liberties.

We've had a female SOS before, we've had a black SOS. We've had a black, female SOS before.

Sotomayor, while qualified to be an Associate Justice, has not, too me and several others, reconcilied her previous statements about her race and experience with those during her confirmation hearings. She is an elitist.

What is fueling this wild behaviour is what we see. Our country is transforming right before our eyes. Banks being nationalized. Car manufactuers being nationalized. Attempts to nationalize healthcare. Attacks on our prosperity by by heaping new energy taxes under the guise of 'saving the planet'.

This is amazing, on the smaller level these people proved incompetent in running their own banks and their own car dealerships etc. While I certainly don't think they should be nationalized, the gov't didn't intervene at all during Bush's rule and they screwed everything up so bad that Obama literally had to go into emergency mode while we were headed into a major economical collapse. And i'm glad to see that you're one of the 2% of the people in this country who doesn't think saving the planet from global warming is important.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
Recessions will occur. They have to occur. It's part of the business cycle.

I don't know where you've been for tha last few years, but this is not just a normal recession, this is one of the biggest recessions since the great depression and financial experts are saying we were this close to financial collapse. But since you're such an expert on the issue, why don't you tell all here on a.net what should have been done to help the economy.



"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2645 times:



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
She is an elitist.

Can someone please explain to me, what exactly is an elitist?

UAL


User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2636 times:



Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
but I think much of these "arguments" against anything liberal/democrat are because

So why were people so against it in 1993 then?


User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6600 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2624 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):

Oh, horse-shit. We're pissed because we have a leftist president and a leftist majority congress who are hell-bent on taking away our liberties.

What startles me is the fact that none of his initiatives where secret when he was running for president. None of this should be a surprise to anyone. He got elected on these issues.

Why the outrage now?

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 3):
I have had MRI's the next day that is the way it supposed to be, but it wont be like that if this bill passes the way it is.

Do you have a crystal ball to predict the future? I mean people in France and Canada get hurt and sick, and guess what - they survive! There are plenty of healthy people in those countries.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2616 times:

Quoting Ual747 (Reply 5):
Can someone please explain to me, what exactly is an elitist?

1. Read the New York Times, The New Yorker, Vanity Fair, etc.
2. Went to an Eastern University.
3. Can spell.
4. Believe in the Arts through individual contributions and/or government assistance.
5. Believe NPR is a good thing
6. Watch PBS
7. Know that there is a world outside of the US of A.
8. Don't understand why Sarah Palin is so popular?
9. They are patriotic, believe in America, and support our armed forces.
10. They are hard working people in all walks of life who value their income and hate being taxed as much as everyone else.
11. Watch Fox and Listen to Rush to get their laughs.

I'm sure there are many more.


In politics, the terms are often used to describe people as out of touch with the Average Joe. The implication is that the alleged elitist person or group thinks they are better than everyone else, and therefore put themselves before others. It could be seen as a synonym for snob. An elitist is not always seen as truly elite, but only privileged. This use is often employed in politics in societies where social equality is valued and the middle and lower classes have political power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elitism

[Edited 2009-08-12 09:58:00]

User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8847 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2616 times:



Quoting Ual747 (Reply 5):
Can someone please explain to me, what exactly is an elitist?

Somebody who thinks that some (most) people are simply too dumb or unenlightened to take charge of their own lives, so the benevolent hand of government must take care of them.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11678 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2610 times:



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
We're pissed because we have a leftist president and a leftist majority congress

That is the real reason. There are no right-wingers in control of anything. THAT is why the right is so pissed.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
are hell-bent on taking away our liberties.

Like data mining, wire tapping, seeing who is attending anti-war rallies, no-fly lists. Yeah. Because those were set up to give us greater liberies and those were set up by Obama.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
Banks being nationalized. Car manufactuers being nationalized.

Given loans, which they are paying back with interest, and are getting out from under the thumb of big daddy government.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
Attacks on our prosperity by by heaping new energy taxes under the guise of 'saving the planet'.

Or, not having to go through another OPEC embargo. Being self-reliant so that when the Chinese decide to jack up the prices of oil and sell to us we can say "No, thanks. We're good."

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
Quality healthcare...wait in line.

Like all those lines we always hear about in the hell-holes of health care like Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, France, Canada, Italy, Germany, Spain, England. Right. Got it.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
Do you like your Anthem, Aetna, UHC or any other...say goodbye, because once the insurance company tries to amend you coverage, the policy is null and void.

Then, that is up to the insurance company. What does that have to do with people who want single payer like Medicare yet currently have nothing? What does that have to do with people that do have Blue Cross or Aetna that change during the change period and follow all the rules?

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
Obama and gang are talking out their butts.

Saddam has WMDs. Saddam has been harboring al-Qaida for years. Saddam is connected with Sept 11. We are wire tapping for your safety. We are setting up no-fly lists for your safety. People with names similar to criminals are not allowed to vote..... You mean talking out their butt like that?



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2610 times:

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
We're pissed because we have a leftist president and a leftist majority congress who are hell-bent on taking away our liberties.

When they take away your constitutionally given liberties, I'll be right there to protest with you. To this point, no one has done any of that.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
All I have to say is: Code Pink, PETA, Earth First, etc. These groups routinely disrupt political meetings for their agenda.

And it's entirely disrespectful. It annoys the hell out of me on either side. As much as I dislike Bush and Republican agenda, if I attended a forum I would not act the way these people are. But I guess that's just me. Would you act that way?


UAL

[Edited 2009-08-12 10:03:45]

User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2601 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
Somebody who thinks that some (most) people are simply too dumb or unenlightened to take charge of their own lives, so the benevolent hand of government must take care of them.

Come on Dreadie, that is really unfair and inaccurate. As I said above it is an assumption nothing more.


User currently offlineCanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2588 times:

I don't blame any of the people going to these town hall meetings for being mad as hell. The stimulus bill, for example, was an 1,100-page document unveiled at 11:00 pm the night before the floor vote. The same thing happened with the climate change bill. At 3 a.m. on the day the bill was to be voted on, the Democratic leadership released a 310-page amendment. The health care bill was right on track to be shoved through Congress in much the same way. No wonder people feel like little thought is being given to what would result in a massive change to what is around 15% of our economy.

Obama's priorities seem to be rushed legislation and little transparency. Yesterday's town hall was another example of screened, handpicked group of people asking scripted questions. Hardly a town hall, more like an infomercial.

I agree there are some weapons grade idiots on both sides, like the guy who brought a gun to the town hall meeting yesterday, but I won't be sending any "fishy" emails I receive to the White House anytime soon.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2582 times:



Quoting Canoecarrier (Reply 13):
Obama's priorities seem to be rushed legislation and little transparency.

I will agree things seem to be too rushed. If these issues weren't so huge, I understand moving swiftly. But I think the politicians and Obama are doing too many things at once. I think all of Obama's agendas are good ones, but I'd like to see them implemented less quickly, if only to give the public a time to adjust.

As to his transparency, I do believe he is much much more transparent than the last administration.

UAL


User currently offlineCanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2580 times:

During the campaign, Obama pledged to post legislation online for five days before signing it. Since then he's said he doesn't have to do that for the bills like the stimulus bill because the pledge applied only to non-emergency legislation.

Quoting Ual747 (Reply 14):
As to his transparency, I do believe he is much much more transparent than the last administration.

Did the last administration run on a platform of transparency? Obama promised during the campaign to have the most transparent government in history. How his "transparency" is as compared to Bush is irrelevant when the bar for his administration is the "most transparent government in history". Since then we've had the stimulus bill shoved down our throat and they won't even release the data on the "cash for clunkers" program for an independent determination of the program’s success.

Quoting Ual747 (Reply 14):
I think all of Obama's agendas are good ones,

I think SOME of his agendas are good ones. I'm ok with some form of health care reform, but not a public option.

Massive government spending for the stimulus bill, the bailout of Detroit and banks, subsidizing people's car purchases, among others are horrible ideas in my opinion.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8847 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2577 times:



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 12):
Come on Dreadie, that is really unfair and inaccurate. As I said above it is an assumption nothing more.

What are you talking about? The question was asked what do we consider to be elitist, and there it is. Elitism is all about identifying a lot of different groups of people and providing for them because they are unable to do so themselves. Elitism is the combination of feeling superior to these poor unfortunates, while at the same time feeling noble about yourself for helping them (even if its with other people's money). It is the foundation of progressivism, ever since the dark days of Eugenics in the early 20th century.

And it is a mindset and policy which we conservatives have nothing but contempt for.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2566 times:



Quoting Ual747 (Reply 14):
As to his transparency, I do believe he is much much more transparent than the last administration.

Well for one thing, he has the information right in front of him and yet he is still outright lying to the people. He can't even begin to claim the information given him is faulty.


User currently offlineFlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7187 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2556 times:



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 7):
Do you have a crystal ball to predict the future? I mean people in France and Canada get hurt and sick, and guess what - they survive! There are plenty of healthy people in those countries.

Of course there are, but lets also look at those countries taxes and the size of those countries the US is much larger than either of those two countries we need a different system from them just like the President said himself. And there are wait times, I know people who have gone to the United States because they were told they had to wait 3 months for life saving surgery!
Imagine government health care. They would get the worse doctors, worse nurses, the person would not have much say in what test he and she wants done etc.. When I think of government health care I think of the DMV or Postal Office. I like telling my doctor what test I want, what doctor I want to see etc.. If this bill passes at some point everyone will be under government health care, taxes will sky rocket up, and health care just wont be the same.
(of course this is just my opinion based on my own research and experiences but the majority of America is starting to feel this way too)

When President Bush tried to rush bills through liberals where going crazy as to why he would do that. But if President Obama does it its okay.  Yeah sure



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6822 posts, RR: 34
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2548 times:



Quoting Propilot83 (Thread starter):
then Financial Regulatory Reform (to combat and police Wallstreet to prevent another devastating recession).

How about Congressional Reform to hold idiots like barney Frank and Chris Dodd accountable for their almost criminal negligence in KNOWINGLY turning their back on Fannie and Freddie problems because they were/are on the take? How about that?

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
1. We have a black president, 2. We have a woman secretary of state, 3. We have a Latina as a Supreme Court Judge. The racism and bigotry, albeit very underlying, is what is fueling all this wild behavior.

What a load of bullshit!! Let’s just stop the incendiary race-baiting now. Mods ought to spank you for this post candidly since it happens with a far less threshold otherwise.

My “wild behavior” as an AMERICAN CITIZEN and lover of liberty is because NOTHING this administration has done has been Constitutional, honest, or consistent with constructionist or conservative classically liberal values. I don’t give a rat’s ass if Obama or any of them are purple with green chartreuse polka dots. But his values, policies and the entire action since he assumed office has been one abortion of freedom after another.

Quoting Canoecarrier (Reply 13):
Obama's priorities seem to be rushed legislation and little transparency.

Another damn good point and something that the leftists can only answer by saying that there HAS to be a sense of urgency…we must act now or the sky is falling!! Whatever.


User currently offlineCws818 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1176 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2533 times:



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
We're pissed because we have a leftist president and a leftist majority congress who are hell-bent on taking away our liberties.

"Majority" is the key word in your statement. The majority has chosen a president and congress that are left of where you happen to be. You seem to consider that an affront.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
She is an elitist.

So what?

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
Quoting Propilot83 (Thread starter):
Obama is a great President,

Really, you can say that after 200 or so days? I think he's out of his element.

And many said the same thing about Bush. So where does that get us? Round and round we go....



volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
User currently offlineMax550 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2520 times:



Quoting Slider (Reply 19):
How about Congressional Reform to hold idiots like barney Frank and Chris Dodd accountable for their almost criminal negligence in KNOWINGLY turning their back on Fannie and Freddie problems because they were/are on the take? How about that?

The executive branch can't reform the legislative branch.
There is already a process for holding congresspeople accountable, it's called elections. The only way to solve the problem of congresspeople being on the take is to have public financing for elections, which I don't see happening anytime soon.

Quoting Slider (Reply 19):
My %u201Cwild behavior%u201D as an AMERICAN CITIZEN and lover of liberty is because NOTHING this administration has done has been Constitutional, honest, or consistent with constructionist or conservative classically liberal values.

Care to provide some examples? I think I would have heard about it if they did something unconstitutional.


User currently offlineFr8Mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5470 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2514 times:



Quoting Cws818 (Reply 20):
"Majority" is the key word in your statement. The majority has chosen a president and congress that are left of where you happen to be. You seem to consider that an affront.

Absolutely correct. The majority was sold a bill of goods. We get to corret that in 447 days.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 10):
Given loans, which they are paying back with interest, and are getting out from under the thumb of big daddy government.

And demanding salary caps and denying folks rightfully negotiated and earned bonuses.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 10):
Or, not having to go through another OPEC embargo. Being self-reliant so that when the Chinese decide to jack up the prices of oil and sell to us we can say "No, thanks. We're good."

And how is Cap & Trade going to do that? We don't have a new energy source in the wings that can take the place of oil. How about we develop one first? How is hamstringing our economy going to ensure our prosperity as a nation and 'save the planet'?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 10):
Then, that is up to the insurance company. What does that have to do with people who want single payer like Medicare yet currently have nothing? What does that have to do with people that do have Blue Cross or Aetna that change during the change period and follow all the rules?

It's rather simple. This legislation will make it next to impossible for private insurers to compete against the government.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 10):
Like all those lines we always hear about in the hell-holes of health care like Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, France, Canada, Italy, Germany, Spain, England. Right. Got it.

I'm sorry, do they have a population of over 300,000,000? No. Why do folks from these countries come to the US for healthcare? I have spent time in a healthcare access paradise. I stepped into a hospital in the middle of a national capital and was appalled at what I saw. As I continued to visit my mother, I became even more upset at the system. I spent more time getting stamps and endorsements than I did with my mom. My dad kept trying to find someone to pay so that they would take care of my mom. No, thank you.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 4):
And i'm glad to see that you're one of the 2% of the people in this country who doesn't think saving the planet from global warming is important.

I thought the current term was 'rapid climate change', since global warming doesn't seem to be panning out.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 4):
This is amazing, on the smaller level these people proved incompetent in running their own banks and their own car dealerships etc. While I certainly don't think they should be nationalized, the gov't didn't intervene at all during Bush's rule and they screwed everything up so bad that Obama literally had to go into emergency mode while we were headed into a major economical collapse.

Then their banks should have closed and folded and the dealerships/manufacturers should have closed up. Would it have hurt? Absolutely, but those that remained would be leaner and stronger. That's the free market and competition. Look it up sometime. Emergency mode? What's that? Run up a deficit that is going to cripple the economy? Build roads that no one can use?



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6822 posts, RR: 34
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2512 times:



Quoting Max550 (Reply 21):
Care to provide some examples? I think I would have heard about it if they did something unconstitutional.

How about you name soemthing he's done and I'll rebut. It's easy.


User currently offlineCws818 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1176 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2506 times:



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 22):


Quoting Cws818 (Reply 20):
"Majority" is the key word in your statement. The majority has chosen a president and congress that are left of where you happen to be. You seem to consider that an affront.

Absolutely correct. The majority was sold a bill of goods. We get to corret that in 447 days.

No, the majority made a choice. Nobody was hoodwinked.



volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
25 Max550 : Rebut what, the Constitutionality of it or the fact that he did it?
26 UAL747 : Let me clarify my "race" post. I'm not saying you, but I live in a conservative state, and I see and hear what many people are saying about all of the
27 UAL747 : Really? War in Iraq much? UAL
28 Post contains links Canoecarrier : That is correct, the majority did make a choice. But, I wouldn't go so far as saying that nobody was hoodwinked. I've given a couple examples of camp
29 Canoecarrier : Those are some pretty broad, naive statements. The truth is in that Gallup poll I linked to above. Only 9% of the population considers themselves ver
30 Seb146 : To make sure they get their money back with interest. Wouldn't you? Isn't that good business? They will find a way, if they want to keep in the game.
31 Max550 : If people were hoodwinked that's their own fault. He has reneged on some campaign pledges, but so does every politician. I'm not saying it's right to
32 FlyMIA : It if pretty hard to compete against an option that "seems" free. Also it is pretty hard to compete against the most powerful and richest organizatio
33 Max550 : My understanding is that if you can't afford insurance you would receive credits and/or subsidies to buy insurance. It would be up to you to choose w
34 Mt99 : As opposed to have a CEO make ur health decisions? Beacuse that is what is happening now you know? A level 1 accountant decides what is profitable fo
35 Seb146 : Like what? Letting car companies go bankrupt leaving tens of thousands without work? Home owners being upside-down in their mortgages without work? M
36 Post contains links Fr8Mech : No, it's not good business. It's government interference in the marketplace. I don't care how much lipstick you put on it. No, business works when th
37 Fr8Mech : The health care industry is not the concern, the concern is the insurance industry. The airlines are not competing against the government. Ford conti
38 WarRI1 : " Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, we are free at last" From George W. Bush and his ruinious policies of greed that is.
39 DocLightning : NO THEY ARE NOT. And you had better grow the heck up and realize that you have to work with these people. Hating them will gain you nothing. So start
40 Post contains links DXing : Let's see, Patriot Act? Still in force, the Administration has made no move to have it rescinded or weakened. As a Senator he voted to reauthorize it
41 Fr8Mech : Doc, I consider my freedom to choose a health care plan liberty. To drive the car I want...liberty. To eat what I want...liberty. To say what I want,
42 Canoecarrier : So, Detroit runs a failing business model for what the last couple decades and it's now our responsibility to save them? It wasn't that long ago they
43 Ken777 : Let banks fail and the government pays out your tax dollars via the FDIC to cover any losses. That's first. Then, like the auto companies, it's time
44 Cws818 : Does Enron ring a bell? Has any "liberal" tried to make you switch your child's school, other than if you had moved into another district? I doubt it
45 Post contains links Canoecarrier : It's easy to blame the big, bad company but remember someone had to actually sign the papers. If you didn't have a job and you qualified for a home l
46 DXing : Enron, and Worldcom make (made) up what total percentage of all the nations business?
47 Cws818 : Zero because they no longer exist.
48 Post contains images StasisLAX : I must disagree with your viewpoint. I see the healthcare debate and the outrageous townhall outbursts as another typical scare campaign from the rig
49 Canoecarrier : After the last post I give up. Filter the clutter on both sides. I don't believe a public option will fund abortions, death committees or whatever. I'
50 Post contains images StasisLAX : Good question - perhaps we can ask all of the damn lawyers (Congress-persons and Senators are largely LAWYERS) why the topic of tort reform isn't con
51 UAL747 : You people need to quit saying "tit-for-tat" or "you democrats did it to Bush." I just wish you guys would get it through your heads that starting a d
52 Canoecarrier : Don't forget, during the debates leading up to the election when asked by Chris Wallace about how he had never went against Democratic leadership on
53 Fr8Mech : Our financial markets are second only to healthcare in regulation. Really, so what you're saying is that someone who is paid to respond to emergency
54 Mt99 : Dude.. Because it Greece! (With all due respect to my Greek friend Tommy) Would it be the same in Sweden? or Norway?
55 DXing : Which is why I put (made) in there. What percentage of the nations business did they make up? How many companies fail for any number or reasons not c
56 Max550 : How long have you had since Obama first spoke about reforming health care? I'm pretty sure it's been more than a year, and the voters chose Congress
57 Slider : UAL- I don’t mean to single you out on this necessarily, but I’m going to reference your replies to me as an example of what I believe to be a my
58 DXing : How long has it been since an actual plan (H.R. 3200) was developed? Less than 6 months. Incorrect. The GOP has known about health care reform since
59 Max550 : Bush sought authorization to use force against Iraq on Sept. 12th, 2002. The first bill was introduced on Sept. 23rd, 2002, and the bill that eventua
60 Dreadnought : That was a simple, 5-page bill. Basically you had 3 days per page of argument. If we were to give as much time to discuss this bill, we should pass i
61 Vega9000 : Interesting debate, Gentlemen. Let me bring some perspective from a country in Europe: We have a peaceful coexistence here between the public and priv
62 Slider : Um, no it’s not. That’s the whole point. You ARE paying for it one way or another. What, pray tell, is your total tax burden? Add up direct and i
63 FlyMIA : It WONT be free, taxes will pay for something which I will not want to use anyway. So me and my family have to pay more taxes of our hard earned money
64 Seb146 : Seriously? I can count on one hand, minus a few fingers, the number of times I have had to call 911 because of some other person. I have not needed t
65 Canoecarrier : It's a red herring to compare health care reform to police, fire, 911 services. In the absence of any of those services you would miss them if you ne
66 FlyMIA : I said I am all for paying for those type of things, I have used the police before, I have called 911 before they are all important emergency service
67 Mt99 : Why is size a problem? Computers can handle the information. Are you a communist? are you suggesting the government influencing private companies? Fo
68 FlyMIA : Really? Well since the US Government has basically taken over banks and one of the largest companies in the world General Motors I do not think anyon
69 Slider : Notice how this very crucial nugget has been conspicuously absent from the national debate? Now go look at the $$ that trial lawyers funneled into Ob
70 FlyMIA : Exactly yet no one seems to care about this. Doctors save a lot of money if their insurance cost would go down and that saves money for everyone and
71 Mt99 : Ok so currently an insurance company pays $100 for a procedure, lets assume of that $10 goes to the doctors malpractice insurance. How would it work?
72 Dreadnought : Many doctors I have spoken to pay anywhere from 30-50% of their revenue for malpractice insurance premiums.
73 Mt99 : So would insurance companies cut the payments to the doctors by 30-50% if they would not require malpractice insurance? Malpractice insurance provide
74 FlyMIA : Insurance companies would have to lower their premiums or else the doctor would find someone who will.
75 Post contains links Canoecarrier : While I'm not sure what specialty the doctors you talked to were in Obstetrics has been hit incredibly hard by malpractice insurance. Many Ob/Gyn doc
76 DocLightning : Most certainly. Malpractice insurance should NOT cost more per year than many peoples' entire incomes.
77 StasisLAX : Congresspersons and Senators are by and large, LAWYERS. They will not cut off their law school friends from a source of income (malpractice suits) un
78 Dreadnought : An then we start lining up the lawyers and congessmen to the wall. I'm not a bloodthirsty person and I highly doubt it would really happen, but the i
79 FlyMIA : You really believe that? After eight years of George Bush we did not have any revolution.
80 Mt99 : Again - dont understand how limiting malpractice lawsuits would lower health cost. I get the concept, but the practicalities of it seem very unlikley
81 FlyMIA : Yes he will. Because other doctors will start charging less because they can afford to, just like other insurance companies will start charging less
82 Mt99 : And the say that liberals are the one who sing Kumbaya!! I personally know many many doctors who indeed volunteer their time and help low income peop
83 Fr8Mech : Because a medical practice is a business. The more patients you get, the higher the profit. If you can under-cut the practice on the 2nd floor of the
84 Seb146 : Well, no. "Conservative" commentators would pick and choose sippets of press conferences held by the spokesperson for the White House while Bush was
85 Mt99 : I understand that. But back to practical realm. DO you see Doctor A advertising that he/she will do procedure X for $75 and Doctor B will do it for $
86 Canoecarrier : The majority of your average American's already has access to good, quality health insurance. Even as a part time airline employee I had a pretty goo
87 Mt99 : I am insured. I am happy with my insurance- i am very very lucky and thankful that i am healthy. I am employed - i have nice savings.. But i know tha
88 Us330 : I'm going to disagree on your main point, concerning race and bigotry being the main influences behind these protests (I think it is more blue vs red
89 FlyMIA : It really is not, you have a choice of doctors from your insurance, your insurance would not mind you using cheaper doctors, cheaper doctors means ch
90 PPVRA : I don't care. Just like I didn't care if banks went out of business. Those resources they use can be used for something else. Remember it was/is your
91 DXing : President Obama's priorities have change dramatically just this week. First, the Health Care plan went from economics to evil insurance companies. Sec
92 Fr8mech : I see medical advertisments all the time. But, it's not as simple as that, as you alluded too. We still have healthcare insurance companies doing mos
93 Us330 : BTW, I forgot to add that under the current cost structure of medical malpractice insurance premiums, rates increase as the practicing physician gets
94 Dreadnought : Won't happen. He's not going to pull the rug out from under the trial lawyers' gravy train. Another related thing that needs to be clamped down on is
95 FuturePilot16 : They've changed dramatically because of the fearmongoring by the right wing opposition. For the last eight years the republicans have been shoving ev
96 Dreadnought : Well, excUUUUUUUUUse us for objecting to some outrageously stupid and expensive ideas...
97 Mt99 : Well, the thing is.. it not about Health Care. It about Obama. He could say that he likes sunshine and rainbows and you would come out against sunshi
98 DXing : If they cost a trillion dollars and didn't really save any money, you bet.
99 Dreadnought : You can keep telling yourself that and even convince yourself it's true. You think like that child that posed that planted question last week to Obam
100 Seb146 : Here is how I see it working, but since I am a hated liberal and this whole plan is set up by the hated liberals, every word of this will be wrong an
101 Dreadnought : You forgot to add: And then the government steps in with their own widgets. They cost $400 to make (when you include all directly related costs, not
102 DXing : Of course the fourth company isn't subject to the same rules and regulations that the other three companies are, nor do those other three companies h
103 Slider : See, this is brilliant. And no matter the verbal diarrhea and hair-splitting that exists in so much public debate about politics, especially in an on
104 Post contains links Mt99 : Well i want the "Liberty" to marry by boyfriend. What happened that that "Liberty"? Right - let say Insurance Companies instead http://www.cnn.com/20
105 Post contains links Dreadnought : They are on the other side of the argument already. http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_33/b4143034820260.htm The Health Insurers Have Al
106 Mt99 : Because you are not done.. So i was waiting on the "good ideas"... I don't get paid to debate you point for point. Your time is not mines. Joking asi
107 Dreadnought : If you refuse to engage in the discussion, why should I bother? You are not interested in any ideas that don't come with ACORN's seal of approval. I
108 Mt99 : It did. But why? There was never a "death panel"? Insurance Companies also make a decision on what is covered or not? What would be so different? Ala
109 Mt99 : Do insurance companies negotiate with each doctor individually? or do they have standard payment for procdures which must be accepted by the doctor?
110 PPVRA : With your statement above that I underlined, I question if you know anything about private health care and how "complex" it is. It isn't anything lik
111 Dreadnought : The difference is that with an insurance company, you have options. You can threaten to call in the newspapers, create a scene and negative PR for th
112 FuturePilot16 : And do you think that would really work? Look, insurance companies are amongst the worst companies in America. I understand that you don't want the g
113 Dreadnought : I agree, and yes, they are rats. But it's still better than dealing with the government, who not only have all the traits you describe but actually m
114 Mt99 : Are you the same person these two posts?
115 Canoecarrier : They may be, but show me any example of the government running an program that wouldn't be better run by a private company in a competitive bid situa
116 Dreadnought : Are you saying that tossing the ambulance-chasers to the wolves is a DOWNSIDE to all this??? Or are you being an ass? I'm willing to discuss anything
117 FuturePilot16 : We left the Banks and the Car companies for the last eight years to look after themselves and they've proven themselves incompetent. Doesn't meant th
118 Dallasnewark : Please get a clue before making such statements. Government forced banks and financial institutions to lend to people with questionalbe credit histor
119 Cws818 : Right, because that has worked wonderfully so far.
120 Canoecarrier : Let me get this right, you think that the government should monitor the auto industry? Why, Detroit did nothing but implement a losing business model
121 Us330 : Yeah, I know he's not (and as long as the Democrats are in power, tort reform and malpractice reform simply won't happen. Why take measures to reduce
122 FuturePilot16 : Ok, so let me get this straight, you would rather companies fail, people lose jobs, and the economy goes under while thousands of family lose an inco
123 Fr8Mech : But that is the essence of the free market. People are enamored with the idea that government is a safety net for business. It is not. Look at PanAm.
124 FuturePilot16 : IMO, Pan Am is different. The airline industry could be better compared to the bank industry, but it is completely different than any industry in the
125 Dtwclipper : Could you please provide some sort of source to what you are talking about regarding the Millions and Billions of dollars given to PA? This is new to
126 Canoecarrier : Thank God that we have the government to save from all our problems! Where do you think all this money is coming from? What do you think the conseque
127 LTU932 : Just as a note: The German health care system allows for both national health care and private health care. Regarding the national health care system
128 Us330 : Please explain why you think the airline industry could be better compared to the financial services industry. If the airline industry suddenly colla
129 Cws818 : Spoken like someone who only rarely has to travel beyond reasonable driving distances. Yes, sure they will. But how long will that take? Personally,
130 Mt99 : Well, I love you too. Obviously, you are not. Of course not - what i am saying is that in practical purposes what you are advocating would not have t
131 FlyMIA : Lets not forget a horrible product. There is a reason my family has three German cars in the driveway. No there does not, they companies failed, they
132 Us330 : I don't deny that there would be initial short term chaos, and by short term I mean a year to 1.5 years. Then we'll have to agree to disagree, becaus
133 Canoecarrier : Spoken like someone who has no firm grasp on the economic realities of a world economy. I've traveled all over the world, and everywhere I've been pe
134 Mt99 : So has Paris Hilton. I would have invested and retrained them to meet new challenges. Like making GM stop making SUVs and focusing on more efficient
135 Canoecarrier : Fair enough. Fortunately not with either of us. As a private investor that might make sense. In GM's case what you suggest would have been a wise dec
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