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Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG  
User currently offlineSATexan From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 240 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8168 times:

Still fresh from the last incident, I got this link from a co-worker today:

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/...99/couple-deported-city-paris.html

How can the French authorities determine the eligibility to enter Finland?

100 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9828 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8131 times:



Quoting SATexan (Thread starter):
How can the French authorities determine the eligibility to enter Finland?

As far as borders go, there is the Schengen agreement. It allows travel between certain members of the EU. The couple was to enter the area in France and effectively take a domestic flight to Finland as there would be no immigration there.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4725 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8130 times:

Quoting SATexan (Thread starter):
How can the French authorities determine the eligibility to enter Finland?

They did not, they determined the eligibility to enter the EU (or more specifically the Schengen countries), which they have to do. France is the port of entry to this area and thus they handle the immigration, as CDG-HEL does not encounter immigration due to the Schengen agreement.

[Edited 2009-08-27 14:27:49]


For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineCatIII From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3094 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8097 times:

What are the Cleveland Indians doing in Paris?  Smile

In all seriousness, to amplify on what was said above, The Schengen rules remove all internal border controls but put in place effective controls at the external borders of the EU and introduce a common visa policy. The full Schengen members are Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden (but not Ireland and the United Kingdom) plus Iceland, Norway and Switzerland (which are not EU members).


User currently offlineSATexan From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8022 times:



Quoting CatIII (Reply 3):
What are the Cleveland Indians doing in Paris?

Hahaha..they are playing the Dodgers in the World Series  Wink

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 1):
The couple was to enter the area in France and effectively take a domestic flight to Finland



Quoting JRadier (Reply 2):
France is the port of entry to this area and thus they handle the immigration, as CDG-HEL does not encounter immigration due to the Schengen agreement.

Thanks for the info guys.


User currently offlineDTWLAX From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 821 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7764 times:



Quoting JRadier (Reply 2):
They did not, they determined the eligibility to enter the EU (or more specifically the Schengen countries), which they have to do. France is the port of entry to this area and thus they handle the immigration, as CDG-HEL does not encounter immigration due to the Schengen agreement.



Quoting CatIII (Reply 3):
In all seriousness, to amplify on what was said above, The Schengen rules remove all internal border controls but put in place effective controls at the external borders of the EU and introduce a common visa policy.

The schengen visa permits travel to any of the Schengen countries.
If the couple were traveling to Finland, they would have had the Schengen visa. They would not be traveling without the visa.

So the question to be answered is why were they deported if they had the visa?
Is it due to the lack of financial support documents?


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7725 times:



Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 6):
So the question to be answered is why were they deported if they had the visa?
Is it due to the lack of financial support documents?

This just reminds me of an incident a coworker told me about. There was this girl who flew with IB to MAD, in order to go to Switzerland to visit relatives. When she went through immigration, they put her in a cell and then deported her back to SJO, without any reason as to why they kicked her out. She's Costa Rican, and Costa Ricans do not even need a Schengen visa, yet according to my coworker, they simply randomly selected her for immigration action. I recommended him to tell her to go complain with the Spanish Embassy, but apparently it wouldn't do any good, as nothing may come out of it.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7582 times:

I'm glad this matter has been taken up to the MoEA.
It would be tough for Elder persons visiting a foreign land to face such a problem.If the report is true.This is an issue which should be highlighted.
regds
MEL.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineBrahmin From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7479 times:

India should stop Air France from operating in India so that passengers do not have to transit at CDG and get harassed there.

User currently offlineSATexan From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7465 times:



Quoting JRadier (Reply 2):
France is the port of entry to this area and thus they handle the immigration

Now, is this a cursory check made at the boarding area or a full fledged immigration clearence done for all passengers proceeding to the Schengen countries?

How will a non EU passenger know that he/she is required to go through Immigration at CDG? Normally, connecting passengers will simply proceed to the gate where they will board their next flight. So is an announcement made as the flight approaches CDG?


User currently offlinePlaneInsomniac From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 686 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7418 times:

Yes, I am sure this is a well-researched an well-balanced article and not just a one-sided retelling of a story as "reported" by enraged passengers. The introduction as a "helpless elderly couple" - the wife is all of 45 years old - certainly helps to set a fair and balanced tone for the article.

"The minute they landed at the airport, security officials demanded the invitation letter sent to the parents by their son,"

I am pretty sure this happened just as they were trying to clear immigration, and not "the minute they landed at the airport", unless a special forces commando stormed the plane. And security officials "demanding the invitation letter" is nothing but them doing their job by asking for supporting documentation. Just the fact that they are this dramatic about everyday procedures shows the mindset that this "report" is written in.

"The couple jotted down the mobile number and e-mail address of their son on a paper and handed it. However, the officials rudely tore them up and threw it away."

Yes, I am sure this is exactly how it happened.

The couple were asked to sign something written in French

they kept ordering us to shut up when we attempted to say something

If they had any doubts of us bearing the H1N1 virus they should have conducted tests.
 Confused

Long story short, they lacked proper documentation (ever heard of a new thing called making a copy?) and cash reserves, and they were sent back home. Bad luck for the couple, but stuff like that happens 1000s of times everyday at airports around the world. Be prepared is all I can say. But how about let's get all hysterical and make a big anti-French racism thing out of it?



Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
User currently offlineSATexan From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7343 times:



Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 12):
Bad luck for the couple, but stuff like that happens 1000s of times everyday at airports around the world. Be prepared is all I can say.

You mean thousands of passengers across the world with VALID visas get tossed into jails and deported the next day? I dont think so.

While the news report may not be 100% accurate there seems to be a pattern of dubious behavior by the French immigration authorities at CDG


User currently offlineGoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1872 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7252 times:



Quoting Brahmin (Reply 10):
India should stop Air France from operating in India so that passengers do not have to transit at CDG and get harassed there.

And could you tell me what is the relationship between AF and CDG police ? If you take a non-stop flight India-CDG on any airlines other than AF, you won't have to deal with immigration at CDG ?
For this particular story, nobody knows what happened and the way the story is related is just sensationalism and poor journalism.


User currently offlineAlm1 From Lithuania, joined Oct 2008, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7222 times:

And a Shengen visa does not automaticaly mean that you can travel everywhere in Shengen area freely. In Lithuania we occasionaly deport people (nationals of countries like Kazahstan or Georgia) for trying to board flights to Western Europe when they have stated on their visa application that their final travel destinantion is Lithuania (such visas are easier to get).

User currently offlineBoeing747_600 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7205 times:



Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 10):
Long story short, they lacked proper documentation (ever heard of a new thing called making a copy?)

Oh and you know this for sure, I suppose  Yeah sure

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 10):
and cash reserves,

This is something that would have already been established when they were given their Swedish visas. Unless there was a red flag raised by the Finnish authorities, it is extremely unusual to have to document this when passing through immigration.

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 10):
Bad luck for the couple, but stuff like that happens 1000s of times everyday at airports around the world. Be prepared is all I can say.

I would *LOVE* for the shoe to be on the other foot  Smile



Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 10):
But how about let's get all hysterical and make a big anti-French racism thing out of it?

Dont imagine nonsense that's not happening. Nobody's accusing anybody of racism - just a case of lack of consideration for a couple that based on all the information at hand should have been allowed to proceed to HEL.


User currently offlineSATexan From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7202 times:



Quoting Alm1 (Reply 13):
And a Shengen visa does not automaticaly mean that you can travel everywhere in Shengen area freely.

Agreed. But the couple in question were not travelling 'freely' wherever they wanted.


User currently offlineBrahmin From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7084 times:



Quoting Goldorak (Reply 12):
And could you tell me what is the relationship between AF and CDG police ? If you take a non-stop flight India-CDG on any airlines other than AF, you won't have to deal with immigration at CDG ?
For this particular story, nobody knows what happened and the way the story is related is just sensationalism and poor journalism.

The relationship is that AF flies you to CDG. LH flies you yo Germany and BA flies you to LHR, The problem is CDG.
There are just a few airlines that fly you directly from India to CDG.

It may be sensationalism to you, but, it is a real life story tragedy to the Indians affected.


User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1299 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7069 times:

Now we don't have any idea of what really happened here and why.
But what we do know is that immigration for this couple should take place at CDG according to Schengen legislation.

Quoting SATexan (Reply 9):
How will a non EU passenger know that he/she is required to go through Immigration at CDG? Normally, connecting passengers will simply proceed to the gate where they will board their next flight. So is an announcement made as the flight approaches CDG?

Normally in the EU you clear immigration at first port of call into Schengen.
Thats the rules and most countries have similar rules.
People never just walk on to a connecting flight when going from international to domestic in other countries either so I doubt this can be an issue for travellers.

Why these people were stopped is anyones guess.
But in general its quite unlikely they were stopped for no reason at all, immigration doesn't work in that way. They need proof and a decision to send someone with a visa back isnt taken out of thin air. Immigration must base such a decision on facts and document them.
I assume the couple had valid visas since they say that had presented information to the EU embassy for the Visa.

But even if you get a visa you cant just travel, you need to fulfil certain requirements. This goes for most countries and for example New Zealand and Australia have similar rules. The enforcement might vary but I have been asked to provide proof of insurance in Auckland for instance.

It feekls more likely that they
A. Didn't have the stipulated funds with them.
B. Had the wrong visa.
C. Didn't have insurance according to specification.



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently offlineBrightcedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1290 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6897 times:

One issue here might be that the French authorities may have suspected that they were not going to board the flight to Finland and rather vanish into the French wilderness. Or it's something entirely different, with sound motivation or sadly without. Still the French authorities are actually letting people enter France and thus the Schengen area.

For the genuine occasional traveler, I would advise to take a more direct route to your EU destination, especially when you have a Schengen visa provided by a tier country, when you do not have a visa history (track record) of entering and exiting the area, and to get single ticket from origin to destination rather than separate ones.

It is known that some countries have a more laid back approach to visa issuance than others (if it doesn't work at that embassy, then apply at that other embassy...). It could very well be that these people did apply for a visa at the French embassy, were denied, then applied at the Finish embassy and got it, buying a 2nd ticket from France to Finland for the show.

My history of supporting visa requests for many in-laws tells me that if you do things the proper way, after a few years your guests will be rewarded with a multiple entry whole year visa. It just takes building up the trust.



I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
User currently onlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3072 posts, RR: 37
Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6734 times:



Quoting SATexan (Reply 11):
You mean thousands of passengers across the world with VALID visas get tossed into jails and deported the next day? I dont think so.

Yep. Happens 100s of times a day in the US. A visa is effectively a "pre-clearance", but does not guarantee entry. From the U.S. Dept of State website: "While having a visa does not guarantee entry to the U.S, it does indicate a consular officer at a U.S Embassy or Consulate abroad has determined you are eligible to seek entry". People with valid visas can be refused entry because they have insufficient funds to support themselves, the CBP officer believes they may try to remain in the US, and a myriad of other reasons.

For example, my adopted daughter is a Tibetan refugee. She has UN and Canadian refugee identification documents (pending citizenship and a Canadian passport), a Canadian Permanent Resident card, an Ontario driver's licence and health insurance card, and a US visa valid until 2012. If she travels with me (Canadian citizen), she is usually allowed to enter the US (sometimes after questioning to establish that she is my adopted daughter, even though she's no longer a minor). When she has tried to enter the US on her own (e.g. to visit friends in NYC), she's always been refused entry, despite a valid visa.

Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 14):
Unless there was a red flag raised by the Finnish authorities, it is extremely unusual to have to document this when passing through immigration.

It actually happens all the time. Immigration officers in many countries (not just France / Schengen) will check return tickets, means of support, insurance, reason for visiting, whether the visitor actually has significant links to the return destination, etc.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2972 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6551 times:

Honestly, big deal. People get deported all the time if they don't have enough money and/or no international credit cards. It did not help that these people were first time flyers and may not have been conversant enough in English to understand the Immigration officer. It is sad, but there are more than enough examples of Indian people being deported.
That said, given the volume of India traffic through/into Europe European airports should have at least a few employees who are conversant enough in Indian languages (the UK does, as do several German airports) at least Hindi, Bangla, Urdu and Tamil the four largest South Asian languages!



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User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2307 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6446 times:



Quoting SATexan (Reply 9):
How will a non EU passenger know that he/she is required to go through Immigration at CDG? Normally, connecting passengers will simply proceed to the gate where they will board their next flight. So is an announcement made as the flight approaches CDG?

You can't get to the gate of an intra-Schengen flight without going through immigration.

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 10):
I am pretty sure this happened just as they were trying to clear immigration, and not "the minute they landed at the airport", unless a special forces commando stormed the plane. And security officials "demanding the invitation letter" is nothing but them doing their job by asking for supporting documentation. Just the fact that they are this dramatic about everyday procedures shows the mindset that this "report" is written in.

Actually, when I've issued invitations for Schengen visas, I've always either travelled together with the person, or written a separate letter which that person can bring and show to the immigration officer on arrival. In that letter I state the purpose of the trip, that I take all financial responsibility, my phone number, etc.

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 10):
"The couple jotted down the mobile number and e-mail address of their son on a paper and handed it. However, the officials rudely tore them up and threw it away."

Yes, I am sure this is exactly how it happened.

I would not be surprised, as I myself have had an unpleasant experience with French police at CDG.

Quoting Alm1 (Reply 13):
And a Shengen visa does not automaticaly mean that you can travel everywhere in Shengen area freely. In Lithuania we occasionaly deport people (nationals of countries like Kazahstan or Georgia) for trying to board flights to Western Europe when they have stated on their visa application that their final travel destinantion is Lithuania (such visas are easier to get).

The Schengen visa rules actually states that, if you're visiting several countries on your trip, and the stay in each country is more or less the same, you're supposed to apply for a visa in the first country you enter.

Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 14):

This is something that would have already been established when they were given their Swedish visas. Unless there was a red flag raised by the Finnish authorities,

I hope you're aware that Sweden and Finland are separate countries?

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 17):
It feekls more likely that they
A. Didn't have the stipulated funds with them.
B. Had the wrong visa.
C. Didn't have insurance according to specification.

B. They would not have been allowed to enter the plane in India.
C. Would not have been issued a visa without an insurance.
A. More likely.



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently onlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3072 posts, RR: 37
Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6415 times:



Quoting Cricket (Reply 20):
It did not help that these people were first time flyers and may not have been conversant enough in English to understand the Immigration officer.

Actually, French immigration officers mostly speak French!



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlinePylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1609 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6362 times:

Hm..I used to fly directly from Moscow to EU, if needed.
So I didn't pay attention how all this immigration stuff was arranged.

Are you saying that there are NO TRANSIT AREAS in EU airports and all arriving pax go through immigration - just to catch another international flight?

It can't be so. I used to work with US citizens going to Moscow via CDG or LHR or FRA.
They have nothing to do with Schengen visas.
Sometimes they have 30 minutes between delayed US flight and SU/AF/LH/BA flight to MOW.
Which means that they use transit areas to catch their flight to MOW.

Perhaps those unlucky people didn't get where to go - and just went to immigration???


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9755 posts, RR: 31
Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6150 times:



Quoting Pylon101 (Reply 23):
Are you saying that there are NO TRANSIT AREAS in EU airports and all arriving pax go through immigration - just to catch another international flight?

seems to be hard to understand. On a trip from India via Paris to Finland, passengers are entering the chengen area in France. They have to clear immigratio n and customs in France and then transit to Finland, or other Schegngen countries.

A "transit" without entering the European Union is not possible, as you cannot "transit" throught JFK on your way to Columbis Ohio without clearing into the US.

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 22):
Actually, French immigration officers mostly speak French!

and nothing else...


These people should have transited through London or taken a direct flight from India to HEL on AY. But as usual, the cheapest tickets are bought and AF had the best offer from BIA to HEL.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
25 Lewis : In all airports i've been to, you are required to go through immigration when transiting from outside the Shengen area to an intra-shengen flight.
26 FlySSC : Because US citizen don't require a Visa to enter the European Union/Schengen countries. But a U.S Citizen flying IAH-CDG-HEL will clear immigration A
27 JRadier : There are, for example there are 2 transit area's in AMS, Schengen and non-Schengen with a passport check in between. US-MOW means that you never ent
28 RedChili : On the contrary, there are actually two types of transit areas in Schengen airports: The intra-Schengen transit area, and the extra-Schengen transit
29 GlenP : In the scenario you describe, they would be transitting from one non-Schengen, originating, flight to another non-Schengen, destination, flight & the
30 RedChili : Irrelevant. The same would apply for a Russian citizen flying DME-FRA-JFK. He does not need a visa for Germany or Schengen as he does not enter the S
31 Icarus75 : Wrong statement! Did you ever travel to Europe? I guess not because you have to go trough immigration at the port of entry in Schegen space before ha
32 OA260 : I always have to go through immigration when I go to Greece from UK or Ireland. Now this was a big mistake on the passengers part :: “As we had alr
33 StealthZ : Having read the article linked in the OP posting, other threads here on A.net and many other news stories I am of conflicting opinions. One is that th
34 PanHAM : Not sure about Russians, but citizens of certain countries do require transit visa when connecting through Germany or other EU/Schengen countries., T
35 VARIG MD-11 : Happy now? And I get flamed when I criticize the fact such topics reappear every month....I guess this is this august edition (last case was the ex-p
36 OzGlobal : Certainly the Indian media is adopting a victim mentality and sees racism everywhere a citizen encounters a contradiction overseas. I could very easi
37 Francoflier : The one thing that surprises me about this whole Indians/CDG immigration officers so called 'witch-hunt' is precisely that it only seems to happen to
38 Ushermittwoch : Actually you cannot even connect to EZE or GIG or MEX or what not when flying into places like ATL without clearing immigration there. It is a real p
39 Ushermittwoch : Not true if he it's all booked on the same ticket and the luggage is checked through. Then customs are cleared in HEL.
40 PanHAM : I know that, this info just was not relevant for the posting. I connected through YYZ to DFW once and had to clear into Canada first and 2 minutes la
41 StealthZ : I wish I still had a copy of the letter(rant) that my father wrote the Aus Dept Foreign Affairs on our return from a world trip in 1969. We visited 9
42 HAWK21M : Sad case.....Possible that only one side of the story was reported.The other side is awaited.But this is not about Racism but about an Elderly couple
43 StealthZ : But you feel free to do so... This discussion is perhaps best taken to NonAv.( Happy to continue your biased and unknowledgeable diatribe there) Some
44 Cricket : Agree, this should go to non-Av. And I didn't need a Schengen visa when I did DEL-CDG-ATL on AF even though I had transfer between T2C to T2E at CDG.
45 HAWK21M : whats your take on elderly?.............18 Should be in Non Avi.....But one debates when there is someone debating logically,not emotionally & genera
46 757MDE : I disagree. As a British passport holder the visa waiver program has worked wonders for me! I understand the visa you had before could have been bett
47 SATexan : You have no clue what you are talking about. Go back and read the Bollywood actor thread and specifically read my post. I have supported the US CBP f
48 Davehammer : As has already been said a visa does not guarantee you entry to a particular country. If what the CDG officials did was out of order I'm not condonin
49 SATexan : But they did get the 'Special treatment' though
50 RussianJet : All in all, this is an article which is obviously light on detail, told only from the point of view of the peeople refused entry (who, surprise surpri
51 Signol : I've flown NZ LHR-LAX-AKL, we all had to clear immigration (a temporary desk in the jetway) before being herded into the same crummy room for 2 hours
52 ME AVN FAN : To be more precise, it allows free travel between the members of the Schengen Agreement. Switzerland for example (just as Iceland, Norway and soon Li
53 Kaiarahi : She was held at CDP and put on the next return flight. Same as happened here - the PAX were held at the immigration facility at CDG and put on the ne
54 Scorpio : I'm sorry but... were you there? Were you there to see that the way things are described in the article is exactly how things happened? I'm going to
55 ME AVN FAN : If you transit in a Schengen airport enroute from NA to Asia you of course stay in transit and do NOT go through immigration. As Asia is not Schengen
56 Kaiarahi : Huh??
57 ME AVN FAN : This exactly is what I have thought about when reading. I so often got into France and those French customs officials almost always were so very much
58 RussianJet : You misunderstand. I mean Non-EEA/Swiss (meaning those who are neither EEA nor Swiss by nationality) nationals as opposed to EEA/Swiss nationals. I a
59 ME AVN FAN : sorry, sure I misunderstood. The easier way would have been to speak about people arriving from non-Schengen countries of whatever nationality. The S
60 RussianJet : Well no, that's not what I meant either - because technically EEA/Swiss nationals arriving from overseas into Schengen are not subject to immigration
61 LTU932 : True, you're absolutely right (just as e.g. being in Visa Waiver doesn't mean we'll be allowed to enter the US all the time), but from the way it was
62 ME AVN FAN : If arriving from outside Schengen, you on leaving the plane, will be in the facilities including immigration control, as Schengen and non-Schengen zo
63 RussianJet : Did you actually read my post? I said that all are subject to immigration checks, but there is a difference between being checked and being subject t
64 MD11Engineer : Same for me if I invite my Filipina fiancee, who lives in Ireland, to Germany. To get a Schengen visa from the German embassy she´ll doesn´t only h
65 ME AVN FAN : A rather academic difference, except for people who need a visa Not really, as you in case of intra-Schengen flights will be domestic, and not "seen"
66 RussianJet : Obviously very far from an academic difference. Those wno don't need visas still are subject to limitations on the length of their stay, and are subj
67 ME AVN FAN : and this means that also Schengen-country citizens are controlled by immigration at Zurich Airport when arriving from anywhere out of the Schengen zo
68 RussianJet : Seriously, are you actually bothering to read what I wrote? Yes, everyone gets seen by immigration. But, technically no EU/EEA/Swiss are actually 'co
69 ME AVN FAN : but exactly THIS does not happen in case of people arriving from other Schengen countries at Zurich Airport as soon as the restructuring of the airpo
70 RussianJet : I don't know how much clearer I can be, and I have already said this - I am not, and have not been, talking about intra-Schengen flights. See above.
71 ME AVN FAN : but anybody entering the Schengen zone from outside is subject to the usual procedures, EXCEPT that his entry permit is valid all over the Schengen Z
72 RussianJet : I have merely explained the differences between how EU/EEA/Swiss nationals are treated/checked when entering the Schengen zone from outside, compare
73 ME AVN FAN : Exactly this is maddening. It simply is Schengen.
74 RussianJet : No. You are confusing the status of EU/EEA/Swiss passengers with the Schengen zone. Please read what I say. I am talking about EU/EEA/Swiss PASSENGER
75 ME AVN FAN : And I am talking about Schengen. The EU/EEA/Swiss thing is past and no longer relevant. I in regard to Libya am very critical about Mrs Calmy-Rey but
76 RussianJet : Good on you - except that all this started because I was defending what I was saying from your strange interpretations of it, so really it only had a
77 ME AVN FAN : - it is not my interpretation but the one of the authorities here - there are no EEA-Swiss Bilateral Treaties, but EU-Switzerland Bilateral Treaties.
78 RussianJet : It depends what points you're trying to answer - as you clearly don't understand my points you can't respond to them properly. You're finding answers
79 ME AVN FAN : Switzerland is not linked with the EEA countries by the EEA but with the EU by the EU-Switzerland Bilaterals and with Iceland, Norway and Liechtenste
80 RussianJet : With the result that all EEA members have the same rights of free movement in their countries and also in Switzerland, as Switzerland also does in EE
81 ME AVN FAN : No, this simply is wrong. As the EEA members are not linked to Switzerland by the EEA which is a treaty between them and the EU but by EFTA. Switzerl
82 RussianJet : Name me a member of the EEA who doesn't have the right of free movement to and in Switzerland.
83 ME AVN FAN : All the EEA members most of all are members of EFTA. The original idea of the EEA in fact was to give the EFTA members a way to link up with the EU.
84 RussianJet : So - none then. Like I said.
85 ME AVN FAN : Yes, so you may feel to be right, while you simply are miles beside understanding Western Continental Europe.
86 RussianJet : Nope. Not even slightly correct on your part - but then your constant misunderstanding of all that I say is already very familiar.
87 ME AVN FAN : completely to the point on my part. I understand what you say, but you happen simply not to understand realities of A) Switzerland the the EU B) Sche
88 RussianJet : Nope. Absolutely untrue. 'Real practice' as you put it, is what I do for a living every day and have done for ten years now.
89 PanHAM : Interesting discussion here but at the end, the reader is a bit confused. Russianjet, what are you actually complaining about? The fact that, within t
90 RussianJet : I'm complaining about nothing of the sort. The only thing I'm compaining about is constantly having my words misinterpreted and misunderstood. If you
91 ME AVN FAN : And my point is that on arrival at Zurich Airport it does not matter what nationality you are but what country you are arriving from. Those folks arr
92 PanHAM : OK, understood. That's the only way to take it. All things can happen to anyone at border controls, I had a good laugh with an officer at LHR recentl
93 RussianJet : They are still subject to control though with all the associated limitations on length of stay, what they can do etc. I suppose you've never seen one
94 ME AVN FAN : exactly this is not done by people entering via the Schengen gates, as THIS is the point about it, that you can move through WITHOUT checks. In case
95 RussianJet : Exactly! ID cards which prove their nationality and identity!
96 RussianJet : And again, why are you going on about intra-Schengen travel?? I have NOT talked about that at all! How many times do you need telling that?
97 CPDC10-30 : Unfortunatley this kind of racism is not only limited to France. I have a relative who is a a CANADIAN citizen (yes, a Commonwealth country), born in
98 MD11Engineer : Tough sh*t. Then they must have some other proof of funds (e.g. a notarised invitation stating that the inviting person will cover all expenses). Thi
99 CPDC10-30 : Your faith in the system is admirable, but you have no idea what you are talking about. Race matters, no matter how much people delude themselves int
100 MD11Engineer : Same story. he didn´t inform himself before that he required a different type of visa for a business trip, as compared to a touristic trip. Tough sh
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