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Pres.Obama's Speach To Students 9-08  
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Posted (5 years 11 hours ago) and read 4580 times:

Don't have a problem with it ,. other Presidents have done it. However some talk is about ,that it will contain agenda bulletins ( Health-care , Energy / Environment , Economic issues). Now here is where I have a problem. President Obama has a enormous opportunity to speak to the kids about positive issues ... tell his story and inspire our kids. However I don't like the idea of him campaigning to our kids in the class room.

Here is the problem with some of his adviser selections .... I have to wonder about his education secretary .. What is in there background ? Take a look at the bulletin sent out from the DOE too the teachers... I wonder if the same was done for other Presidents.. I am sure it was not for President Bush .. if is was the teachers would toss it in the trash.

http://www.ed.gov/teachers/how/lessons/7-12.pdf


I am going into the class room next week to view it with my youngest child and participate in the" BIG Event "as the school put it in the flyer sent home to us parents.

What do you think ? Are you going to see it whith your kids ?


You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
239 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineForce13 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 hours ago) and read 4558 times:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arne_Duncan

Sounds like a well educated gentleman, Magna Cum Laude from Harvard.

[Edited 2009-09-02 11:43:52]


Do not taunt. Do not shake. Do not pander. Add coffee. Subject should be slightly human within an hour.
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6584 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 hours ago) and read 4545 times:
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Quoting Force13 (Reply 1):
Sounds like a well educated gentleman, Magna Cum Laude from Harvard.

An elitist you mean.  stirthepot 

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
Obama has a enormous opportunity to speak to the kids about positive issues ... tell his story and inspire our kids. However I don't like the idea of him campaigning to our kids in the class room.

Or read them "America - a Patriotic Primer"  stirthepot 



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineForce13 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 hours ago) and read 4539 times:



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 2):
An elitist you mean

Uh-oh. Your on to me and my subliminal double-speak.  Wow! I better hit the "Free Thought Alarm" Big grin



Do not taunt. Do not shake. Do not pander. Add coffee. Subject should be slightly human within an hour.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21571 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 hours ago) and read 4523 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
Now here is where I have a problem. President Obama has a enormous opportunity to speak to the kids about positive issues ... tell his story and inspire our kids. However I don't like the idea of him campaigning to our kids in the class room.

I have no problem with him challenging children to find solutions to the major problems that are effecting the country - that's what he should be doing. Obviously, there's a right and a wrong way to do it, so I'll just have to wait until the speech is given before I can say that he was or wasn't campaigning to the kids.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 hours ago) and read 4515 times:



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 2):
An elitist you mean

 checkmark 

This should be good. Warm up the teleprompter and get that stolen speech ready. Let me guess somewhere along the line we will hear about the mess he inherited?


User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6584 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 hours ago) and read 4511 times:
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Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 5):
This should be good. Warm up the teleprompter and get that stolen speech ready. Let me guess somewhere along the line we will hear about the mess he inherited?

A little prejudice aren't we?

Which is fine - it only hurts your credibility. Keep on pre-judging! (Is that the correct word?)



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17450 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 hours ago) and read 4500 times:

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
I have to wonder about his education secretary

From what I've read about him I like him--he seems very pragmatic, non partisan, and wants to do things that get results (revolutionary, I know). He supports school choice, merit pay, and charter schools--all things that are major breaks with his boss' party's positions, and their union masters.

[Edited 2009-09-02 12:48:31]


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 hours ago) and read 4469 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 7):
From what I've read about him I like him--he seems very pragmatic, non partisan, and wants to do things that get results (revolutionary, I know).

The only thing that is going to change results is for parents to be involved in there kids education. It is hard , it is tough and requires allot of dedication form a parent , something lacking in our society everywhere ,thus the rise of socialism its easy street.

All DOE directors want to do things to get results ... the results are what I am worried about. I am not giving his choices of directors any benefit of the doubt now ... sorry I have no reason to believe the guy does not follow the socialist agenda of this administration. I will see for myself on the 8th.



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17450 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 hours ago) and read 4462 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 8):
The only thing that is going to change results is for parents to be involved in there kids education

Yes, the only problem is that it is the only thing the government can't change short of forced sterilization.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 8):
I have no reason to believe the guy does not follow the socialist agenda of this administration

So far, from what I can tell, he refreshingly has...



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8840 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 hours ago) and read 4452 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
I wonder if the same was done for other Presidents.. I am sure it was not for President Bush .. if is was the teachers would toss it in the trash.

I find this creepy. I mean, REALLY creepy. Having students “write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president.” This clumsy bit of cheerleading shows no awareness that ”helping the president” might be construed as an invitation to engage in advocacy rather than instruction or that it might worry those who are not Obama partisans.

This just reeks of fascism. This is the kind of crap that goes on in dictatorships, telling kids that it's their duty to help Comrade Stalin, Der Fuhrer, Dear Leader, and so on. And I'm sure that if this had been tried under Bush, the calls of fascism would be raised by the same people who are pushing this effort.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6584 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 hours ago) and read 4442 times:
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Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
Having students “write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president.”

Where did u get this from? Is that in the linked document? Unless "cntrl-F" is not working today - The word "letter" only appears twice - an only in reference to "letter" grades.

Where are you quoting from?



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6584 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 hours ago) and read 4432 times:
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Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
might be construed as an invitation to engage in advocacy rather than instruction or that it might worry those who are not Obama partisans.

This just reeks of psychosis



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8840 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 hours ago) and read 4427 times:



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 11):

http://www.ed.gov/teachers/how/lessons/prek-6.pdf

And would you believe it - they've edited it! The quote I had was copy/pasted from here. Guess people got upset and they got wind of it.

But there is still plenty to object to.

"Students can record important parts of the speech where the President is asking them to do
something. Students might think about: What specific job is he asking me to do? Is he asking
anything of anyone else? Teachers? Principals? Parents? The American people?"

Who is the president to ask me to do anything? He's the public servant - he's supposed to be working for us, not the other way round.

"After the Speech:
• Students could discuss their responses to the following questions:
What do you think the President wants us to do?
Does the speech make you want to do anything?
Are we able to do what President Obama is asking of us?
What would you like to tell the President?"

STOP SPENDING MONEY I HAVEN'T EARNED YET!

"Create posters of their goals. Posters could be formatted in quadrants or puzzle pieces or trails marked with the labels: personal, academic, community, country. Each area could be labeled with three steps for achieving goals in those areas. It might make sense to focus on personal and academic so community and country goals come more readily."

Here, the teacher will reinforce the goals that the president has pushed onto them. Any kid who says 'that's a rotten idea', will be sent to the corner with a Dunce hat, as an antisocial.

"Write letters to themselves about how they can achieve their short‐term and long‐term education
goals. These would be collected and redistributed at an appropriate later date by the teacher to
make students accountable to their goals."

This is the part that had what I quoted about an hour ago.

"Participate in School wide incentive programs or contests for students who achieve their goals."

In other words, let's reward the kids who buy into Comrade Obama's program.

If I had a kid in school, I'd take him fishing that day.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8840 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 hours ago) and read 4426 times:



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 12):
This just reeks of psychosis

Maybe you like fascism more than you think.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6584 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 hours ago) and read 4416 times:
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Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
And would you believe it - they've edited it! The quote I had was copy/pasted from here. Guess people got upset and they got wind of it.



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 12):
psychosis

quick they are on you!! Run!

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
But there is still plenty to object to.

Better object quicky, before the informants get a hold of your brainwaves and change it again.

You have beat them this time!

 Wink



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineForce13 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 hours ago) and read 4416 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Who is the president to ask me to do anything? He's the public servant - he's supposed to be working for us, not the other way round.

You just made thousands of vetrans who gave their lives for this county spin in their grave.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Create posters of their goals. Posters could be formatted in quadrants or puzzle pieces or trails marked with the labels: personal, academic, community, country. Each area could be labeled with three steps for achieving goals in those areas. It might make sense to focus on personal and academic so community and country goals come more readily."

And what's wrong with this? Teachers proactively ensuring the success of their students? Your just upset because you don't like Obama. Fine, we get it.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Participate in School wide incentive programs or contests for students who achieve their goals."

Many schools do this and it has nothing to do with political affiliation or any Presidential speeches or actions. They do it so the kids focus on learning and becoming contributing members to society.



Do not taunt. Do not shake. Do not pander. Add coffee. Subject should be slightly human within an hour.
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 hours ago) and read 4406 times:



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 6):
Which is fine - it only hurts your credibility. Keep on pre-judging! (Is that the correct word?)

What are you going on about? I didn't prejudge, I quoted facts buddy. He depends on the teleprompter, stole a speech and has made reference to the Bush administration in his speeches countless times. If anyone has no credibility it is you my friend and your constant propaganda.


User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 hours ago) and read 4400 times:



Quoting Force13 (Reply 16):
And what's wrong with this? Teachers proactively ensuring the success of their students? Your just upset because you don't like Obama. Fine, we get it.

 redflag  Its one thing for a teacher or a individual school to do what ever they want ... but you don't find it uncomfortable that a letter comes from Washington suggesting it ? doesn't it just seems that they are working so hard to "help" the President.



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6584 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 hours ago) and read 4393 times:
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Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 5):
Let me guess somewhere along the line we will



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 17):
I quoted facts buddy. He depends on the teleprompter, stole a speech and has made reference to the Bush administration in his speeches countless times.

So you used past actions to "guess" the future.. Hmm sounds like.. what's that word .. oh yea "prejudging"

If you don't like it, you may contact Mr Merriam or Mr Webster. They will assist you in changing the definition.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineForce13 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 hours ago) and read 4393 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 18):
Its one thing for a teacher or a individual school to do what ever they want ... but you don't find it uncomfortable that a letter comes from Washington suggesting it ? doesn't it just seems that they are working so hard to "help" the President.

No, I don't find anything wrong with the Department of Education advising teachers and administrators. Like the Department of Education was set up to do. And I don't find it wrong for every American man, woman and child to help their President regardless of liking them or not.

"Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" Have people forgotten that in order to get what we want out, we need to put an equal amount in?



Do not taunt. Do not shake. Do not pander. Add coffee. Subject should be slightly human within an hour.
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8840 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 hours ago) and read 4392 times:



Quoting Force13 (Reply 16):
You just made thousands of vetrans who gave their lives for this county spin in their grave.

Soldiers are not public servants. They are citizens who have chosen to serve for a pitance of a salary. Politicians seek power. I put them much lower on the chain.

Quoting Force13 (Reply 16):
And what's wrong with this? Teachers proactively ensuring the success of their students? Your just upset because you don't like Obama. Fine, we get it.

Pressuring the students to buy into Comrade Obama's agenda. Every time this sort of thing has been done in the past has been a disaster,

Quoting Force13 (Reply 16):
Many schools do this and it has nothing to do with political affiliation or any Presidential speeches or actions.

This one does.

Look, I'm not saying that this document was written by anyone higher than a mid-level bureaucrat at the Dept of Education (one who certainly voted for Obama). It's the mentality that disturbs me.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 hours ago) and read 4389 times:



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 19):
So you used past actions to "guess" the future.. Hmm sounds like.. what's that word .. oh yea "prejudging"

LOLOLOL, omg this is too funny. You really are livid that this guy is screwing the dog when it comes to running this country aren't you? Fact is I really don't prejudge him but what do you do when all his speeches are exactly the same and don't have any substance? When he just repeats the same ol propaganda he has been using since he won the primary? He can't answer tough questions, has lost all control of economy and middle east and now he is wants us to leverage more money so everyone can have crappy health care. You go dude! Good luck riding that right to a loss in 2012'. Have you been paying any attention to the town meetings? People are mad and have just about lost their patience with his empty suit. Most of them were independants that voted for him that expected more and are just not gettting it.


User currently offlineForce13 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 hours ago) and read 4384 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 21):
Comrade Obama's agenda



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 21):
mid-level bureaucrat at the Dept of Education (one who certainly voted for Obama)

If we had a different president, one that you liked, would you make these same comments? Now be honest.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 21):
Soldiers are not public servants. They are citizens who have chosen to serve for a pitance of a salary.

We did have a draft for WWII and Vietnam. Many selflessly went to serve our country to defend the public's freedoms. I know a few vetrans who would politely disagree with you on that.



Do not taunt. Do not shake. Do not pander. Add coffee. Subject should be slightly human within an hour.
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6584 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 hours ago) and read 4377 times:
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Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 22):
LOLOLOL, omg this is too funny. You really are livid that this guy is screwing the dog when it comes to running this country aren't you? Fact is I really don't prejudge him but what do you do when all his speeches are exactly the same and don't have any substance? When he just repeats the same ol propaganda he has been using since he won the primary? He can't answer tough questions, has lost all control of economy and middle east and now he is wants us to leverage more money so everyone can have crappy health care. You go dude! Good luck riding that right to a loss in 2012'. Have you been paying any attention to the town meetings? People are mad and have just about lost their patience with his empty suit. Most of them were independants that voted for him that expected more and are just not gettting it.

how does this change the fact that you were prejudging?

Let me help you out: suggestion@merriamwebster.com



Step into my office, baby
25 AGM100 : The two Americas has never been as apparent as they are these days ....
26 Post contains links Dreadnought : Students have never been asked to pledge loyalty to a president by name The following video was shown to 850 students at a school assembly of the Eag
27 Seb146 : What a horrible president we have! I mean, instead of telling kids if they don't have enough money and average grades in high school, they can always
28 Dreadnought : Is he talking to kids about a war? What are you missing?
29 NIKV69 : Fine but if you want to really spew your propaganda you can just say "anyone that doesn't agree with Obama is a racist!" I
30 Mt99 : spew? What would you call this: a controlled release?
31 NIKV69 : Looks to me like a fair assesment of our current president and how he has fared in the last 6 months.
32 LTBEWR : I suspect many school districts will not participate in this program due to local political views, that it takes time from the school day and lack of
33 Mir : So if he were to ask America's students to study hard, make the right decisions instead of the easy ones, be leaders in their communities and positiv
34 N867DA : Please note that at the end of the speech, the president will be handing out "Democratic Party pledges" to make sure all the kids vote Democratic from
35 Post contains links and images Dreadnought : I would have no problem with that. But I have 0% confidence that he will restrict himself to such things. He will use the opportunity to tell them ho
36 Yellowstone : The whole "I'll do it because I want to but not because you tell me to" line is generally used by small children. We're (mostly) adults here; we shou
37 AGM100 : Miss the point did we ? Sorry I cant explain it more plainly .... Read slowly... A letter from Washington was sent to teachers to instruct them how t
38 Itsonlyme : Well clearly this is how low things have got. A few people just 'assume' this President wants to indoctrinate little kids, and put someone who was ele
39 Dreadnought : We don't assume anything. We base the belief on past behavior and speeches of Obama and the people he surrounds himself with. I would hardly call 52%
40 Mt99 : It was landslide based on the electoral college process. You know, the same process that gave GWB his victory. Where you quoting actual vote percenta
41 Homer71 : My wife posed the question to me: Would you let our kids listen to a Pres. Obama speech? My answer: If he's going to speak to the kids about the impor
42 KC135TopBoom : My three sons have decided to not send their kids (my grandchildren) to school on Tuesday, the 8th. I support that. Obama does not have a very good tr
43 Force13 : This is where I get upset. How can anyone compare a president to a dictator who killed 6,000,000+ people because of what he called "inferior genes"??
44 Aaron747 : Politics today - both lefties and righties are guilty of this Hitler crap, but you won't find any apologies in this thread for it.
45 Post contains images Dreadnought : Excellent - you've made my point. Hitler's genocide would not have been possible had it not been for the culture of fanatical loyalty to him - a Cult
46 Mt99 : If you want more people to have health care covered, then why do you complain of your taxes may go up to expand health care? Again, all of the sudden
47 Post contains links Fxramper : Someone agrees with you. They are adding it to the health care reform junk file. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...use-withdraws-students-help-o
48 AGM100 : I think that's the wrong move ,,, have them go and participate . Talk to them discuss the issues and let them make up there minds . I have 3 kids , 2
49 Homer71 : My favorite is P. Diddy's: "I pledge to turn off the lights when I leave the room, so should you." Hey, moron, I've been doing that since I was tall
50 Dreadnought : So you buy into the ultra-rationalist idea, eh? I may be capitalist, and like efficiency, but some things are off limits. Since you seem to have no p
51 Seb146 : The previous president and administration made that option very easy. "Sign on to fight in Iraq and we will give you and your parents full citizenshi
52 Mt99 : It better damn should it - Isnt that what you guys have been advocating all this time>? Ahh - but i do have a problem with it - i guess irony does no
53 Post contains links and images Dreadnought : Nope. It's not irony when you have been voicing your ardent support, and now say you have a problem with its fundemental precepts.
54 NIKV69 : Just saw on FOX many are going to pull their kids and I think it is the right decision. I am sick of this guy. All he does is sit in front of a TV sc
55 Homer71 : Maybe they need to act on their own and not wait for someone important to tell them. In other words, quit being sheep...
56 Force13 : Let me get this straight. Parents who don't like the President and what he stands for are going to take a day's worth of education away from their ch
57 AGM100 : Frankly , the tea parties I hang with and a vast majority of them I have been around would never say that . Some idiots do .... but we don't. We call
58 KC135TopBoom : Surprise, surprise............... I do. What benefit will my grandkids get from being a captive audience being forced to listen to BHO's crap. School
59 N867DA : Sorry. Maybe Georgians can handle these things better than other people. After the 1994 Republican Revolution, Newt Gingrich came to my school, shook
60 Homer71 : Uh, these kids are not meeting the president in person, they're going to watch him on tv making a speech. If Obama was coming to my kids school, I wo
61 Force13 : No comment
62 Mt99 : Has Obama delivered the speech yet?
63 N867DA : Yeah, skimming things during study breaks isn't good for comprehension. If its on TV who gives a crap?
64 Homer71 : I had a chance to go the our school district's website and there is information on the his speech. The district (which is about 80% Republican) will a
65 Mir : Perhaps he will. But your comments really did seem like you've heard the speech already. So unless you've invented a time machine, the decent thing t
66 Post contains links Mt99 : I know right. Then they claim that they are impartial and unbiased observers Let the man speak, THEN post all the vitrol you like. If Obama gives a g
67 Starbuk7 : Sorry, with what he has on his little agenda (see link at beginning of thread), no actual school work is going to get done during this school day any
68 Starbuk7 : I have been listening to the man speak for the last several years and he hasn't said anything worth a damn yet, so what makes you think he will start
69 Mt99 : Oh come one.. he has said "God Bless America" - is that not worth a damn? Wow.
70 Starbuk7 : Oh, he probably said it, but I would lay odds that he damn sure didn't mean it.
71 NIKV69 : Some may call it raising your kids. It is far from cowardly. What is cowardly is that he would pick this venue for another teleprompter session. I wa
72 Homer71 : I saw it in the Washington Times but some folks here might not consider that (or Fox News) as a credible source...
73 ER757 : Exactly what I was thinking. Heck, I've watched some of Obama's speeches and remember the debates before the election and more than once I screamed "
74 Falstaff : The president will not be on in my classroom. My students know about my rightest ideals and some even take my class just for that reason. The students
75 Superfly : Oh hush up and teach them automotive skills. ....and Lyndon Johnson's landslide over Barry Goldwater was bigger than that Hollywood actor President.
76 DXing : By what measure Larry? Electoral goes to Reagan. States carried goes to Reagan. If you mean that Johnson had a larger percentage of the popular vote
77 NIKV69 : It doesn't except in his argument. The electoral college was born to prevent huge state populations for speaking for the entire country and rightly s
78 Aaron747 : Sounds like all of you are making a sublime effort to provide your students an objective education No it's missing a chance to give your kids a const
79 KC135TopBoom : That was only one school. Obama is going to Wakefield HS in Alanderia, VA to televise his speech to every public school in the nation. Most Catholic
80 Tsaord : Now they say the man is brainwashing. What next?? Education is the key to breaking a lot of barriers in life across all racial lines. Talking to stude
81 Falstaff : No differernt than the leftist teachers. They spout off stuff all the time about Obama, democrats, greens, etc. I am just balancing it out. You lefti
82 Aaron747 : I'm not a "lefty" so I haven't a clue what you're talking about. You sound just as nuts as the teachers you're trying to "balance" with. All of you h
83 Mt99 : You are so gullible. You really believe these little flags? LOL No wonder you buy into all that Fox News says..[Edited 2009-09-03 20:53:44]
84 Superfly : LBJ won 61% Reagan won 59%
85 Mir : That some would consider fostering a "hear no evil, see no evil" attitude to be raising their kids is quite troubling. Rather than step up to the pla
86 Tsaord : It runs deeper than party lines.......Ya'll wanna know what the real fear is? This speech may actual inspire Raheem or Darnell or Miguel. Better known
87 Post contains links Itsonlyme : Im wondering what some people on here thought about President Reagan talking to school kids about low taxes: http://mediamatters.org/blog/200909030020
88 Post contains links DXing : The trigger for the opposition to this address wasn't the speech itself, no one really knew what was going to be in it until the past couple of days.
89 Mt99 : Did you protest it?
90 DXing : No, but if there had been follow up questions and essays like the ones the White House was suggesting then I would have had a problem with it. Again,
91 Casinterest : Exactly what is wrong with these questions in the terms of attending school and working hard? Everyone that is protesting this and threatening to pul
92 Thebatman : Obviously, you haven't paid attention to the train wreck he left at the public school system in Chicago. Illinois' public schools rank somewhere arou
93 Post contains links KC135TopBoom : As opposed to watching CNN, MSNBC, BBC, CBC, CBS, NBC, or ABC? Popular votes mean nothing, only the eletorial votes count. Do you remember LBJ's "Dai
94 Force13 : I said he sounds like a well educated gentleman. Your not really an idiot if you go to a prestigious University like Harvard. I never said he was a g
95 Mt99 : You are a (political) marketer's dream. Now, let me tell you about Herbal Life - for only $19.99.... LOL
96 Mt99 : So.. Chicago = Illinois? Weird.. huh?
97 MSNDC9 : This is where it gets creapy.... "Why is it important that we listen to the president and other elected officials, like the mayor, senators, members
98 Santosdumont : The name of Public Enemy's third album. That combined with the country's changing ethnic demographic.
99 DXing : Ok, let's read a verse from the Bible that encourages hard work and respecting your elders and then ask those same questions but replace "he" "Presid
100 Seb146 : When was Obama head of the Chicago Education Board? When is it horrible and outrageous that the leader of the country address the children? Bush went
101 Santosdumont : Obviously, the best way to use the speech as a teaching tool is to essentially ask students if they agree with the arguments presented therein or not
102 Scorpio : I really don't see what the whole commotion is the Republicans seem to be stirring up here about these suggested questions. I've read them, and all th
103 Post contains links Dreadnought : At ages K-6, kids really can't think for themselves, and their ability to do so between 7-12 is arguable at best. At that age, what teacher and other
104 Santosdumont : K-6 is a pretty broad range. Younger kids can say if they liked the speech or not, and older kids can start tackling the substance of what was said.
105 Mir : Incorrect. When an elected leader says something, regardless of whether you agree with it or not, it's important. Because it affects you. If they wan
106 Avent : It's funny to have one thread where the anti-Obama crowd is complaining he's more of a politician than a leader, and then in this thread, that he need
107 DXing : Most of the schools around here aren't going to show the speech live, not because they don't want to but because the timing interferes with lunch. Te
108 MSNDC9 : Obama is the one doing a disservice by wasting kids time when they could actually be learning something.
109 AGM100 : Ya , a book reading and a Q/A thing .... no problem . The democrats have sold out on the cult of personality ..substance or actions do not matter. Wr
110 Santosdumont : Let me pose the same questions I have posed earlier: Are GOP lawmakers fleeing to Mexico or Canada fearing for their safety? Does Obama incite (and p
111 AGM100 : You have said that before .... but it is not the same. That is 3rd world type of take over ... this is far more sophisticated . It is packaged in div
112 Santosdumont : So GWB has a hand in this socialist plot as well? Damn. So you're ok with the Obama administration agenda, then? Sure, that's what democracy is all a
113 AGM100 : Its not a plot ... its a slow progression. It has just moved into a faster pace now and it is being exposed. Yes ..President Bush's policies had a ro
114 Santosdumont : But why is the debate on a seemingly sterile policy matter like healthcare bringing out people with sidearms and signs talking about irrigating the t
115 Maverick623 : " target=_blank>http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...bama/ What I find disturbing is that the DOE would have us believe that they didn't know the l
116 Avent : Caring for your fellow man... Is that really such a horrible thing? Don't our military care about their fellow americans - if they didn't, why would
117 Mir : Never said it wasn't. But I'm also entitled to mine, which is that there are far more constructive approaches than simply keeping your kids home. -Mi
118 Continental : Right, so let's cancel all of the distractions like pep rallies, study halls, fine arts performances, etc. The fact of that matter is that there are
119 Afterburner : I just read that Bush Sr. made a similar nationally broadcast speech from a Washington high school in 1991, urging students to study hard, avoid drugs
120 MSNDC9 : Sorry, that chance came and went with trillions in new debt and this sick facination of forcing government run healthcare on us.
121 Continental : Huh? What are you talking about? Recall that this thread is about Obama's speech to students. Perhaps your post might be better suited for a thread c
122 Afterburner : I have this feeling that some people have indoctrinated themselves and (unfortunately) their children to the idea that whatever things Obama has done,
123 Thebatman : Read the post carefully before you go making comments. I was referring to Arne Duncan, the former CEO of the Chicago Public Schools. No - a radical,
124 Flighty : This is so stupid. The President is the President of all the adults and all the children in the country. If he wants to talk to some children, he is t
125 NWADC9 : What the President and other elected officials fail to realize is that we the people are their boss. We don't serve our President - the President serv
126 DXing : I really hope you are joking with this post. Just in case you aren't, He has no more "right" to talk to my child than anyone else in the country witho
127 Klima : 1) How many kids actually know who the president is? 2) How many kids will actually care what he's saying? I'm sure most of the kids will view the spe
128 Continental : Don't bother, you won't convince some people here. They are arguing a point, and will adamantly adhere to that just to piss you off. You could say it
129 Seb146 : To me, it sounded like you were referring to Obama. Okay, let's go with that, then: Chicago's numbers are different than Illinois' numbers. I can ass
130 Maverick623 : Exactly. President. Not some god-like dictator. No one, whether their 8 or 80, should be forced by the state to listen to anyone talk. That goes agai
131 PWM2TXLHopper : If I had kids I wouldn't send them to school to listen to this crap either, because you know the guy will try to promote his health care reform or som
132 Mt99 : How do you know? How? Time Machine? Factually, you don't know that.
133 Continental : Watching Gov. Pawlenty on CNN today almost made me vomit. He said he's discouraging schools from showing Obama's speech because it would be "disruptiv
134 Okie : I thought this speech was going to be an apology to the younger generation, at the present rate of spending the Obama administration is going to pile
135 Flighty : Pawlenty is a very intelligent guy. He understands that Palin is an empty power suit. But he has to pay homage to her if his career is going to go fo
136 Jetmatt777 : Oh no. That is Bush's fault Remember, nothing is Obama's fault, rest assured, Bush is, and will be, responsible for every bad thing, and Obama will t
137 Cgnnrw : Are you sooooooooo insecure about the way your raising your child will be totally wiped out by a 20-30 minute speech? I bet by the end of week 99% of
138 Mir : I've got no problem with parents going into school to hear the speech with their kids - it's part of the whole "parental involvement" idea. It's pare
139 Seb146 : So, all these years that we were forced to watch the "State of the Union" addresses were un-Constitutional and we can sue? Terrific! I want those hou
140 Post contains links Itsonlyme : Well the speech is out: http://www.whitehouse.gov/MediaResources/PreparedSchoolRemarks/ Boy that sure is some socialist propaganda right there.
141 Post contains links DXing : Exactly who "forced" you to watch the State of the Union address? It has almost always been done at night since the advent of television which occure
142 Max550 : I can't speak for Seb, but I remember watching the SOTU several times in school, not live of course, but the next day. I agree that would be inapprop
143 Dreadnought : I'm certain that the speech was heavily changed after all the uproar over the past couple of weeks, in which case our system worked. I have no proble
144 Yellowstone : To be fair, certain social groups in our society are unfairly disadvantaged - the death trap is not in realizing that, but in letting yourself become
145 Dreadnought : I'll agree with that.
146 Scorpio : I don't see the problem: those questions are nothing more or nothing less than simple comprehension questions and questions to invite debate. You fin
147 Mir : Solid speech. No mention of health care (save for that one bit about preventing spreading of the flu, which doesn't really tie into the health care d
148 Itsonlyme : I love the reaction. The headline from drudge is as follows: Obama Lecture to Students: Wash Your Hands Only other quotes on drudge: 'I hope you'll al
149 Tommy767 : I read the speech and despite what people might think, its not socialist propaganda but its very academia. Its all about respecting and listening your
150 DXing : You were still not "forced" to watch it. Could have taken a sick day or just blown off the class. Your reading of the speech now. No way to know what
151 Mt99 : BS. Of course you are going to say: "They changed it last night". The funny things is that you all created all this situation in your mind, so of cou
152 Aaron747 : So apparently this was all a lot of hullabaloo over nothing. Can we get back to criticizing Obama for bankrupting the government? That's the only dog
153 Mt99 : Dont worry - they will find something else to call him a "Communist". He is breathing! Proof he is communist! Its cool though - the stupider the crit
154 LTBEWR : As to the decision of some school systems to allow for parential op-outs of their children for the speech by President Obama and followup, probably mo
155 Ken777 : This one is funny. 150+ posts because the President of the US is going to address kids in our schools. Now, who started this high risk act of exposing
156 Afterburner : He was also a republican.
157 DXing : Nope, I said they changed it last week when this all flared up. Nope, I say my guess is just as good as his and I'm willing to back mine with cash. I
158 Scorpio : LOL! Come on man, because they use the guy's name it becomes 'self-agrandizing'? You're just grasping now... Asking the kids if they think they'll be
159 Mir : You weren't just restricting your comment to yourself: I'm aware that none of the quotes were yours, but it's obvious that not everyone was fine with
160 Mt99 : Last week, last night - same difference for the point being made Pretty gutsy to back up something with cash - something that cant be proved either w
161 Post contains links DXing : Yes, a lot of people over here actually do see that as self agrandizing. Up till now, as far as I can remember, it has always been about the office,
162 Mt99 : Yes, but once the hand is finished- its proven. People bet knowing that in a few minutes, a resolution will be found. How are you going to prove that
163 Aaron747 : An opposition solely devoted to the massive risks President Obama is taking with the fiscal health of the United States government would be a good st
164 Seb146 : So, now the right wing bobble heads are changing their story because, as was announced over and over and over and over, the president was not "endoctr
165 Scorpio : And I'm willing to bet the large majority of those are republicans. Who wouldn't have any problem with it had the guy's name been 'Bush' or 'McCain'.
166 Mir : If you interpreted it that way, then I apologize. My intent was to argue that while you yourself may not have had any problem with the speech, your c
167 DXing : I don't bet on a hand knowing that I'll know the answer in a few moments, I bet bases on what I think the odds are the house will lose. Learning is a
168 Charles79 : Well I just watched his motorcade on the way back to the WH from my building so I guess the speech is over. I read the text this morning and I thought
169 CasInterest : Yeah Please point those lines out to me? The truth is, that a lot of Conservatives took a shot at the Obama administration, and further destroyed the
170 MaverickM11 : Of all the things to criticize about this administration--and there is more than enough material to work with--this was one of the lamest, least rele
171 AGM100 : Not so sure .. the best thing they have going for them is for this administration to keep plowing ahead. The Dems will lucky if they retain 50% of th
172 Scorpio : And which questions would those be? Surely not the ones we've seen in this thread so far. So unless you have some other ones lying around there... My
173 Post contains links DXing : We can't since we never got to see the original draft of the speech. However, http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...use-withdraws-students-help-obam
174 Seb146 : No. All it suggests is they had to go back and change the questions. Where is the proof anyone had to change the speech? Also, two thoughts come to m
175 CasInterest : We elected him to lead and provide guidance for the government. You may remember from civics classes that the president is the Chief Executive Office
176 Dreadnought : The fact that the early draft of the notes mentioned the need to "help the president". Considering that the speech as it was finally given did not as
177 CasInterest : As opposed to what, a Church that will provide for you if you worship the great rainmaker in the sky?
178 Yellowstone : Since funding for school vouchers would come out of education budgets, giving out vouchers would result in even worse conditions for those students w
179 Dreadnought : I've grown used to a serious deficiency in logical thinking from liberals, but this one really bends the laws of space-time
180 Yellowstone : Unless you propose that offering vouchers will magically, instantaneously increase the number of spots available in private schools, you quite simply
181 Windy95 : But it would be money budgeted for that child. So if he goes somewhere else the money would go with him. The school he is not going to would not miss
182 Seb146 : But the texts of those early drafts? Does it at any time mention "help Obama" or does it metion "help the president?" Even school children in Chicago
183 Yellowstone : That logic is only valid if all education costs are variable rather than fixed, which is not the case.
184 Dreadnought : I have to go to a dinner and I don't have time right now to explain how markets work in 5 minutes. However Windy has got at least some of it right. I
185 Yellowstone : I understand how markets work, and I agree that, were you to institute a permanent voucher program, the number of spots in private schools would grow
186 MaverickM11 : No but we can guarantee they'll have a crap education for all of their school career if we keep doing what we've been doing
187 Seb146 : So, just sit and wait and hope things work themselves out "in a few years?" What a way to give kids a quality education! That is a perfect way to kee
188 Tugger : The only way vouchers will be effective is with requirements stating that if a school accepts them, they must accept any student that shows up with o
189 MaverickM11 : They're not getting one now. The debate is very similar to the healtcare debate, seeing as the US spends more per student than most and they perform
190 Post contains links Aaron747 : You seem to be at odds with the ex-First Lady: Referencing the uproar over Obama's address to schoolchildren, which will be aired nationwide Tuesday,
191 MaverickM11 : It has to be one of the silliest uproars of recent memory.
192 DXing : Huge difference between "not listening too" and "disrespect". Burning an effigy of President Obama (which the left did several time to President Bush
193 Windy95 : As opposed to getting a crappy one for the whole time now. Yes there is. It is a common free market practice. Especially in the smaller one classroom
194 Tugger : The key thing that you miss is that education, up to a certain point, is available to all. Healthcare, preemptive healthcare, is not. If you can guar
195 Aaron747 : Depends where one grows up - which is generally the problem with the system. My K-12 education was all public and top-notch, but only because the are
196 Yellowstone : The only way a good can be perfectly elastic is if the marginal cost of production does not increase. If we consider the factors needed to produce an
197 DXing : No, as Yellowstone describe the problem with school vouchers, the same exact argument could be made about a government run single payer health care s
198 Seb146 : Unless the teacher has political leanings that differ from your own. Left-leaning teachers have come under fire many many times even though, you say,
199 Windy95 : Look at DC and NYC and see the frop out rates. So the system now is if you live in a med to well income area you will get a decent education. The res
200 San747 : That's right. We need classes, know your role. Can you imagine the disaster that would occur if everyone in this country (many of whom don't even hav
201 Itsonlyme : Indeed some of the actions against President Bush were disrespectful. I hope that you (along with hopefully other conservatives here) will agree that
202 DXing : The parent, like me, delegates authority to the teacher. That means you can revoke that authority as well which is as it should be if you don't agree
203 AGM100 : The speech was fine , I don't believe that it was geared to much to elementary children but it was right on message. The things that President Obama s
204 Itsonlyme : Sure i can describe some. How about the actions of Mr Beck? Calling Obama a racist on television - no accountability. What about the numerous members
205 Post contains links Dreadnought : He is accountable, and the fact that advertisers pulled their ads showed that. Backed up by the facts (specifically a mechanism in the bill to establ
206 Post contains links Seb146 : So, I can revoke that authority when the schools teach abstinance-only sex ed? I can revoke that authority when the schools make a huge disclaimer ab
207 CasInterest : Which programs , Health Care, Education , Jobs? How much do they cost compared to the money spent on military and terrorist spending championed by th
208 DXing : It's not right and he is accountable as his high dollar advetisers dropped his sponsorship. Now, when the Speaker of the House says that opponents to
209 Dreadnought : Do you really, really want me to drag up all the pictures of Bush being called a nazi, hanged in effigy, burned, etc.? I don't want to do that. All y
210 Avent : Social Security, Medicare, Public Schools, Government supported infrastructures. Seems like we are already on this path. And now the possibility that
211 Dreadnought : In short, you are saying that because the intentions are good we should ignore the results - intentional or otherwise. Sorry, I am not that small-min
212 MaverickM11 : Ted Kennedy would be proud
213 Avent : No, I listed some possible outcomes (results) that I thought were attractive. Why would I advocate ignoring these results? You're not making sense. W
214 Aaron747 : 1984, while great, was written by an established democratic socialist who supported federal European styles of government. You're really mixed up abo
215 Dreadnought : If you only list the possible good outcomes and ignore everything else, you are blowing smoke up our ass. Only because you have not been listening. T
216 Seb146 : He asked for pictures of Democratic leaders. Not Bush. Yes. So was Pelosi. So was Hillary. So was Obama. Really? A gay Jewish Nazi? A half-black Nazi
217 DXing : Show me the linked source. Your word is worthless without it People do it all the time whether you want to admit or not. Remember "white flight"? I t
218 Seb146 : I know. It is hard to go to google.com and type in "nazi pelosi" or "nazi barney frank" or anything similar. Barney Frank being called a Nazi is actu
219 Seb146 : When did I ever say that? One time? What I do say is how the right-wing talking heads use fear to motivate their base. For a long time, it was terror
220 Avent : I honestly have no idea what you are going on about. How should one make a case for UHC if not by emphasizing the positive outcomes, especially in a
221 Post contains links Dreadnought : Wanna talk about the Politics of Fear? How about Pelosi talking about the Swastikas among the protesters? Al Gore saying that we are all going to die
222 Avent : This is too funny. Should I assume by 1, that you're a muslim and by 2, that you'd have been a royalist at the time of the constitution's creation an
223 Dreadnought : Are you drinking?
224 YOWza : 223 replies and nobody has picked up on "speach" in the OP? Looks like US education is just fine. YOWza
225 SXDFC : After reading all 224 posts, and watching the various debates,etc on the television and on the news I have come to realize that in a heated discussion
226 CasInterest : Exactly where are liberty and freedom mutually exclusinve with Equality? Good thing the founding fathers didn't see to much in this one This would no
227 Seb146 : So, we should just all shut up and support a war that we don't believe is just? We should all just shut up and go to Iraq because that is what is "ri
228 Dreadnought : John Calhoun (7th President of the US) put it pretty well. In other words, if everyone is perfectly free, the gifted will rise to the top and the les
229 Avent : So, even if it was possible, you'd strongly object to an anti-war movement forming in Germany during WWII since it would interfere with the military'
230 Mt99 : By golly you have cracked it! Maybe that explains why the French are so screwed up. They are running in circles trying to live up to their motto "Lib
231 Dreadnought : I would approve of any antiwar movement among my enemies. I would guess that the French slogan refers to equality under the law, which is something c
232 Avent : So the ends justify the means - a traditional characteristic of extermist ideologies. Even more interesting.
233 Dreadnought : No, just that a divided foe is easy to defeat.
234 Post contains links Yellowstone : First, your definition of liberalism... 1. I would clarify that man-made laws are not the basis of rights, but that man-made laws are needed to defend
235 Avent : No, for you, the ends justify the means. You are indifferent to the morality of the cause; once the decision is made to launch the war or the holocos
236 Dreadnought : I would hardly hold up Sunstein as any kind of authority. The man is a complete loon. He does not see the difference between rights like private prop
237 Post contains links DXing : Evidently it is too difficult for you to do as you expect me to once again do the heavy lifting for you. But this time you're on your own, post or re
238 Aaron747 : Tort Reform potentially has the greatest impact on current escalation of medical costs. Why would anyone quote John Calhoun?? (who was incidentally t
239 Yellowstone : Sunstein's point, which I think is correct, is that both types of rights are equally dependent on government intervention in society. As he puts it i
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