Ferengi80 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2007, 667 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1361 times:
This may have been covered before, but there are new bits of information that have come to light as to the horrific nature of the torture inflicted on a 9 year old boy and his 11 year old uncle at the hands of brothers aged 10 and 12. The attack happened in Edlington, in the South Riding of Yorkshire, in April this year. Initially charged with attempted murder, the brothers have pleaded guilty to a lesser charge of GBH with intent. The Crown Prosecution Service have said that they accepted the lesser charges so as to spare the victims having to relive the attack again in court. The lesser charges still carry the same maximum sentence as attempted murder, the maximum being life imprisonment.
It is shockingly scary that children can do this. Reminds me so much of the James Bulger case in Liverpool in 1993.
There was a person on Sky News this morning who said that ultimately the parents are to blame, and that is something I agree with. Not only should the children be on trial here, the parents should be as well. They also said that if the children were exposed to domestic violence in the womb, then they can become totally immune to the concept of appathy and of other people's suffering. Not sure if I buy this though. One this is for sure, these have got to be two very disturbed, very troubled children. I'm not sure prison is going to be the right place for them; they need some serious psychiatric help, so would rather see them be sent to a psychiatric hospital for a considerable length of time.
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RFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6141 posts, RR: 25 Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1309 times:
While terrible in itself, there have always been young children who take their persecution of their 'enemies' to horrific levels.
It is not something new, just better news reporting.
Bullying and physical intimidation even to the levels of physical damage and occasionally death have happened in almost every nation across the world for as long as people have kept records.
Quoting Ferengi80 (Thread starter): they can become totally immune to the concept of appathy and of other people's suffering.
I remember a family of very rough brothers from my youth back over 50 years ago. They were from three to 10 years older than me. At that time they seemed to have no control, no remorse. Of course they were taught by their father and mother to always stand up for themselves and never allow anyone, especially teachers, to make them do something they did not like.
None finished school. Three ended up in prison and I understand one died there. The other two will be there until they die. The fourth ended up in the military, I don't know what happened to him.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11708 posts, RR: 52 Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1283 times:
Quoting Ferengi80 (Thread starter): There was a person on Sky News this morning who said that ultimately the parents are to blame, and that is something I agree with.
I agree, too.
Quoting Ferengi80 (Thread starter): They also said that if the children were exposed to domestic violence in the womb, then they can become totally immune to the concept of appathy and of other people's suffering.
That is BS.
Quoting Ferengi80 (Thread starter): One this is for sure, these have got to be two very disturbed, very troubled children. I'm not sure prison is going to be the right place for them; they need some serious psychiatric help, so would rather see them be sent to a psychiatric hospital for a considerable length of time.
No, these kids have learned their behavior, most likely from their parents. Society has tried psychiatric help time and time again. It has never worked. Although prisons may not be much better, there is not many other options for controlling kids like these.
Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 1): I remember a family of very rough brothers from my youth back over 50 years ago. They were from three to 10 years older than me. At that time they seemed to have no control, no remorse. Of course they were taught by their father and mother to always stand up for themselves and never allow anyone, especially teachers, to make them do something they did not like.
I think we all remember families like that back in the '50s and '60s. One family I remeber has had one son convicted of multi-murders, and he was executed in FL many years ago. His two other brothers are also serving life in prisons in two different states, one was for murder, I am not sure about the other one.
T1210s From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 171 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1282 times:
Quoting Ferengi80 (Thread starter): The lesser charges still carry the same maximum sentence as attempted murder, the maximum being life imprisonment.
unfortunately this will never happen as with the Jamie Bulgar case they will be out in there mid 20's have a new id police protection given a job and a house and live happily ever after. They should be put in broadmoor(even though that's a joke prison at times) and never released, if your capable of crimes that horrific at such a young age what will they be capable of when they are released
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KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11708 posts, RR: 52 Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1228 times:
Quoting T1210s (Reply 3): Quoting Ferengi80 (Thread starter):
The lesser charges still carry the same maximum sentence as attempted murder, the maximum being life imprisonment.
unfortunately this will never happen as with the Jamie Bulgar case they will be out in there mid 20's have a new id police protection given a job and a house and live happily ever after.
Quoting OA260 (Reply 4): This I heard on Sky News and you just sigh in disbelief. What can you say except its disgusting.
Oh my God, that is not only disqusting, but is totally stupid.
Sudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4127 posts, RR: 6 Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1122 times:
If this would for any reason happen to my children, or a child that is close to me, you can bet I would not rest before I made my point!
Just like mother Bulgar did. She tracked down both of them.
Also, both of them live in constant fear as they don't want the public to find out who they really are.
That gives me some kind of comfort as they, for the rest of their lives, need to watch over their shoulder.
One can only hope that these 2 boys will face the same future.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16813 posts, RR: 57 Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 985 times:
Quoting Ferengi80 (Thread starter): . One this is for sure, these have got to be two very disturbed, very troubled children. I'm not sure prison is going to be the right place for them; they need some serious psychiatric help, so would rather see them be sent to a psychiatric hospital for a considerable length of time.
It's a far more ethically difficult situation. These are two boys with defective brains, IMHO. If someone believes that this is acceptable behavior at that age, then he will NEVER be normal or capable of compassion or remorse.
Is the solution to euthanize them to protect society? I oppose the death penalty, per se, but tht is the ultimate reason for the death penalty.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11708 posts, RR: 52 Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 940 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7): Quoting Ferengi80 (Thread starter):
. One this is for sure, these have got to be two very disturbed, very troubled children. I'm not sure prison is going to be the right place for them; they need some serious psychiatric help, so would rather see them be sent to a psychiatric hospital for a considerable length of time.
It's a far more ethically difficult situation. These are two boys with defective brains, IMHO. If someone believes that this is acceptable behavior at that age, then he will NEVER be normal or capable of compassion or remorse.
Is the solution to euthanize them to protect society? I oppose the death penalty, per se, but tht is the ultimate reason for the death penalty.
While I am a death penalty supporter, even I don't believe in the death penalty for those who commit horrible crimes if they are under 16, or so. So, don't execute these two, but put them away for the rest of their lives, in a youth detention facility until they turn 18, then in a maximum security prison.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16813 posts, RR: 57 Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 921 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
While I am a death penalty supporter, even I don't believe in the death penalty for those who commit horrible crimes if they are under 16, or so. So, don't execute these two, but put them away for the rest of their lives, in a youth detention facility until they turn 18, then in a maximum security prison.
Why not? Surely by age 12 we would expect an individual to know that this behavior is beyond heinous, so why not kill them? Because they're kids? Seems like they've done something as horrible as any adult could do.
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