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Obama Healthcare Speech To Congress  
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5578 times:

Well, what did you think? I think the speech was well-delivered, eloquent, and hit on the very topics that the opposition have been trying to nail Obama on. In particular I like how he addressed the falsehoods such as "death panels" which I took as a direct attack against Palin, who started much of that nonsense.

I did find that the Representative from SC, I believe, who said, "That's a lie" while the President was speaking was disrespectful. Just an honest question though, has anyone done this in recent years while a President was speaking to both the senate and house, or is this a new development? Personally, I hope that our politics don't start to look like Parliament.

UAL

352 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13511 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5571 times:
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Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
I did find that the Representative from SC, I believe, who said, "That's a lie" while the President was speaking was disrespectful.

 checkmark 

I tend to be fairly conservative and don't necessarily feel the President is on the right track here, however I felt this outburst was incredibly disrespectful. You keep your mouth shut while the President of the United States is speaking.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5572 times:



Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
Well, what did you think?

Watching the speech would have interrupted the Yankee game I was watching, and Derek Jeter is on the verge of surpassing Lou Gehrig as the all-time hit leader for the Yankees. Far more exciting and more important.  biggrin   duck 

*I'm sure someone is going to rip on me for this. I can't wait.  Smile


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8021 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5572 times:



Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
Personally, I hope that our politics don't start to look like Parliament.

We could always go the Korean route of parliamentary negotiation:  Silly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJdZ0TocTlo



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineOkie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2986 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5542 times:

Rattled on and on like Castro

Did not change any perceptions that I had nor add any information that is not out there. Obama only insulted the people who pay for their insurance, people who work for insurance companies, pharmaceutical and medical professions or take responsibility for their own well being physically or financially.

Okie


User currently offlineCharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1330 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5533 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 3):

We could always go the Korean route of parliamentary negotiation:

Actually I could picture folks like McCain and Pelosi engaging in such fights, would make watching C-SPAN that much more entertaining!

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
Well, what did you think?

I didn't get a chance to watch it but the early comments that I have read on the net are mostly positive. To be honest I'm simply amazed that such a much needed and comprehensive health care reform has had to wait this long to materialize. Sometimes I wonder if we have our priorities right in this country.

Cheers!


User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9772 posts, RR: 27
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5528 times:
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Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 2):
*I'm sure someone is going to rip on me for this. I can't wait.

Not me (except for the fact that the Yankees suck).

I'm busy watching the US Open.

I honestly can't take more than a minute or two of a politician's speech. Any more than that and it just bores me to tears, pisses me off, or confuses the hell out of me. Frequently all three.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineAustinAirport From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 643 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5525 times:



Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
I did find that the Representative from SC, I believe, who said, "That's a lie" while the President was speaking was disrespectful.

I have that part DVR'd. It was the most intolerant, disrespectful thing I've ever seen.

The speech was amazing. When he speaks is when his intelligence shines the most. He delivers a broad vocabulary.

I feel he really hit the key points of the health-care debate. And despite what the right would try to argue, he DID try to reach out to the Republicans.



Whoever said you can do anything you set your mind to has obviously never tried to slam a revolving door!!!
User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5518 times:



Quoting Charles79 (Reply 5):
Sometimes I wonder if we have our priorities right in this country.

Amen Brother.

It's becoming "every man for himself" because anything other than that is distorted as communism/socialism/fascism/Hitleresque. Though, I seriously cannot find any correlations that even make sense between Obama and Hitler. That analogy doesn't make sense in any way to me, even if I stretch my mind as far as it can go.

BTW Mr. President, please please please call people out! That would be a lot of fun.  Smile

UAL


User currently offlineAustinAirport From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 643 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5514 times:



Quoting Ual747 (Reply 8):
BTW Mr. President, please please please call people out! That would be a lot of fun. Smile

The part where he called out "death panels" I SO wish he had just said the name we were all thinking about at that moment, Sarah Palin.



Whoever said you can do anything you set your mind to has obviously never tried to slam a revolving door!!!
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8787 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5515 times:



Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
did find that the Representative from SC, I believe, who said, "That's a lie" while the President was speaking was disrespectful.

Agreed. That was ugly. I think he said a few whoppers, particularly in the early part. But you don't do that in that setting.

I was happy to see Obama open the door to Tort Reform. I hope he's serious, and is not just dangling a false carrot.

He made the excellent point that the insurance market in certain states is severely restricted to a handful of companies, which stifle competition and increase prices. But I think he took the entirely wrong lesson from that. The solution is not a Public Option, but rather the federal government should invoke one of the enumerated powers given to it in the Constitution - the power to "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes". They can use this power to override the States' insurance licensing process and allow a Colorado insurance Company to offer services in Ohio, for instance. Some bonding issues can be resolved, and for once, FOR ONCE, the federal government would actually be acting in the way the Founders hoped it would, promoting interstate trade and knocking down inter-state barriers.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5512 times:



Quoting AustinAirport (Reply 9):
The part where he called out "death panels" I SO wish he had just said the name we were all thinking about at that moment, Sarah Palin.

LOL, right when that happened my facebook status was changed to, "Barack Obama Bitch Slaps Sarah Palin." I knew exactly who he was talking about.

UAL


User currently offlineYellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5497 times:



Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
I did find that the Representative from SC, I believe, who said, "That's a lie" while the President was speaking was disrespectful.

Ha... there's already a page up on ActBlue collecting donations for Rep. Wilson's Democratic opponent in the next election. And since he only won his seat 54/46 in the last election, it's entirely possible that his stupidity will cost him his seat the next time around. Way to go, Rep. Wilson!



Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2359 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5484 times:

"Under this plan, it will be against the law for insurance companies to deny you coverage because of a pre-existing condition. As soon as I sign this bill, it will be against the law for insurance companies to drop your coverage when you get sick or water it down when you need it most. They will no longer be able to place some arbitrary cap on the amount of coverage you can receive in a given year or a lifetime. We will place a limit on how much you can be charged for out-of-pocket expenses, because in the United States of America, no one should go broke because they get sick. And insurance companies will be required to cover, with no extra charge, routine checkups and preventive care, like mammograms and colonoscopies – because there’s no reason we shouldn’t be catching diseases like breast cancer and colon cancer before they get worse." -From Pres. O's speech tonight

Bravo  checkmark 

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
I did find that the Representative from SC, I believe, who said, "That's a lie" while the President was speaking was disrespectful.

This man is shameful and of no honor to do this in the joint session during a Presidential address.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5483 times:



Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 1):
I tend to be fairly conservative and don't necessarily feel the President is on the right track here, however I felt this outburst was incredibly disrespectful. You keep your mouth shut while the President of the United States is speaking.

Well it's getting to the point we can't listen to the lies anymore. The president had a chance to do the right thing tonight. Instead he has shown us he will go down in flames just to keep Pelosi happy. Sad.

I listened to the speech and it was the same as all his others. He tells us how he inherited a mess. How the GOP is evil and how things need to change. Yet he never tells us how he is going to do it and who is going to pay for it and when someone exposes the truth he calls them names. The DNC needs to change course on this quick because it's leaking major oil and is headed for disaster.

Quoting Ual747 (Reply 11):
LOL, right when that happened my facebook status was changed to, "Barack Obama Bitch Slaps Sarah Palin." I knew exactly who he was talking about.

Laugh all you want but the fact remains we can't pay for this, don't have enough doctors to handle the load and care would have to be rationed. People would be waiting months for surgery just like in Canada. It is these FACTS that the Dems can't even get their own people to vote for this. Which is why they deflect attention away from that by attacking us.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8187 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5457 times:



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 2):
*I'm sure someone is going to rip on me for this. I can't wait.  

Wouldn't think of it. Sadly I feel baseball is too slow and therefore frequently as boring as trying to understand the Republican's health care proposals.

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 5):
Actually I could picture folks like McCain and Pelosi engaging in such fights,

First McCain can't fight as his shoulders were screwed up when he was a POW.

And Pelosi won't do it because she might break a nail.

So, at the most, what you end up with are two pols flipping each other off.

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 5):
Sometimes I wonder if we have our priorities right in this country.

Well, we put profits above people.

And greed over country.

And the last thing we want to do is ask ourselves "what is the character of our country".

Quoting AustinAirport (Reply 9):
I SO wish he had just said the name we were all thinking about at that moment, Sarah Palin.

She wasn't the only one saying it, but she was probably the only one who believed it.

As for the dick head who shouted out during the speech, he's already issued an apology. Must have had a lot of people chewing his ass out for that dumb move.


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8021 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5460 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 14):
People would be waiting months for surgery just like in Canada.

LOL this canard again? I waited 36 hours for an MRI and CT scan in a country with national health and 4x the population of Canada. Get your facts straight, Jack.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 14):
don't have enough doctors to handle the load

That's a legitimate beef that the AMA has raised with the White House on the issue. Until federal limitations on funding for doctors' training are modified, it will continue to be difficult for med school graduates to get the positions and opportunities they need to advance their skills. We're approaching shortages in many specializations too.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
the federal government should invoke one of the enumerated powers given to it in the Constitution - the power to "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes". They can use this power to override the States' insurance licensing process and allow a Colorado insurance Company to offer services in Ohio, for instance.

Hear, hear...an excellent point. There's *some* hope on tort reform as well - the mighty David Axelrod said tonight on CNN that trial lawyers may not like the direction they're going in, but that doesn't stand above the White House's concern for a system that doesn't work well.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineItsjustme From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2768 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5429 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 14):
He tells us how he inherited a mess.

He did. 8 years worth. Yet the right wingers want President Obama to change things over night.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 14):
How the GOP is evil and how things need to change.

I have never heard him say the GOP is evil. Source please.


User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2131 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5426 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 14):
Well it's getting to the point we can't listen to the lies anymore

Could you clarify, in your opinion, whether or not the congressman shouting "You Lie" is acceptable ?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 15):
As for the dick head who shouted out during the speech......

Hear hear!



The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21514 posts, RR: 55
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5419 times:

A good speech, particularly the section at the end about "the character of America".

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
I did find that the Representative from SC, I believe, who said, "That's a lie" while the President was speaking was disrespectful.

Definitely a no-class move. However, he did do the right thing and apologized right away, so I'm not going to hound him over it.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 14):
Yet he never tells us how he is going to do it and who is going to pay for it

He did, actually, in the speech. You may not agree with it (there are some numbers I'm not sure add up), but you can't deny that he did put his plan out there.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
He made the excellent point that the insurance market in certain states is severely restricted to a handful of companies, which stifle competition and increase prices. But I think he took the entirely wrong lesson from that. The solution is not a Public Option, but rather the federal government should invoke one of the enumerated powers given to it in the Constitution - the power to "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes". They can use this power to override the States' insurance licensing process and allow a Colorado insurance Company to offer services in Ohio, for instance.

The problem I have with that is that it would basically be a way for insurance companies to skirt state laws, since they could just relocate to the state with the most favorable laws for insurance companies, and then be free to ignore the laws of other states where they do business. So in essence you'd be federalizing the insurance laws anyway, only that it would be at the lowest common denominator instead of at the levels appropriate for one state vs. another.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8844 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5417 times:

An elequent, inspiring speech, the best I have watched. The screaming joker, just re-enforced the image that I have of the hysterical "Right" stopping any rational discussion on this matter. I had to laugh at the Republican side sitting on their hands and looking like they were sucking on lemons. It reminded me of sulking school children. Sarah deserved what she got in the speech. I thought the President did very well tonight. Although no Kennedy lover, the point about him having two children with cancer and maybe not being able to afford health care was right on the money. Think about it.


It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8187 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5406 times:



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 20):
I had to laugh at the Republican side sitting on their hands and looking like they were sucking on lemons.

It was tough for them, knowing they had to sit there looking a bit out to lunch when Obama hit some very good lines.

But then there was Boner - the top Republican - looking like he still uses his tanning lamp. His "tan" left him a complexion like Obama's.  Smile


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8787 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5400 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 19):
The problem I have with that is that it would basically be a way for insurance companies to skirt state laws, since they could just relocate to the state with the most favorable laws for insurance companies, and then be free to ignore the laws of other states where they do business. So in essence you'd be federalizing the insurance laws anyway, only that it would be at the lowest common denominator instead of at the levels appropriate for one state vs. another.

Not necessarily, You just had the government federalize California's ultra-strict vehicle emission laws in favor of all the others.

I'm in the telecom business, which is similarly regulated by the states and the federal government. The state regulatory requirements are a royal pain in the ass, and have little to do with protecting the consumer, but rather designed to keep competitors away from the local incumbents. We'd be nationwide tomorrow if we could, but as it is we are restricted to only 15 states - that's all the paperwork our infrastructure can deal with without hiring a bunch of new worthless paperpushers.

Believe me, the state laws are not designed to help the consumers. I've dealt with these regulatory buttwipes long enough to know. They even admit it.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5850 posts, RR: 40
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5396 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 16):
I waited 36 hours for an MRI and CT scan in a country with national health and 4x the population of Canada. Get your facts straight, Jack.

I waited about the same time for an MRI & results in a country with the same population as Canada, the following week they had me in for surgery...what the poster is referring to is elective surgery which is not considered urgent, if its a life threatening emergency then I suspect Canada would be the same as Australia, UK and other nations with socialised health care.

if it weren't for Medicare down here, I'd be 6 feet under by now.



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21514 posts, RR: 55
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5388 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
Not necessarily, You just had the government federalize California's ultra-strict vehicle emission laws in favor of all the others.

I have no problem with a federal health insurance standard. What I don't want to see happen is for the barriers to be removed so that one state's standard can be used for another state with more stringent standards.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
Believe me, the state laws are not designed to help the consumers. I've dealt with these regulatory buttwipes long enough to know. They even admit it.

Which is exactly we shouldn't let insurance companies pick the easiest (i.e. most anti-consumer) laws out there to operate under.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
25 AGM100 : Agreed , not the place for it and it appeared very juvenile . Although he was lying ... government can not increase competition and that is not what
26 Dreadnought : A proper federal standard would make state standards redundant. That's the whole point. You wouldn't happen to work for a well-entrenched insurance c
27 DocLightning : I sincerely hope that you never get the hospital bill I just got. And I'm insured. Yes, $400 for a doctor's visit because the insurance company reimb
28 Yellowstone : Please explain yourself here. The public option is just that, an option--another choice for the American consumer. How is that not an increase in com
29 Dreadnought : With the funding the latest bills demand (2% to 8%, depending), there is no way in hell that the Public Option will be able to meet the expenses of t
30 Okie : I sincerely hope that you have returned to good health. However, I do not see anywhere the Obamacare plan is going to yield you any better results on
31 Yellowstone : From Obama's speech: And anyway, what's to keep the public option from charging sufficient premiums to cover its expenses?
32 AGM100 : As a business owner , payroll taxes increase by 8% if I my employees choose the public option . That is less than what I pay for their health insuran
33 Dreadnought : That was an example of a) Obama not having a clue what he's talking about, or b) he's lying through his teeth about the draconian rationing required
34 L-188 : Can't he be both?
35 DXing : To be honest there were several outbursts from both sides of the aisle, his was just the loudest but essentially you are correct. Two things, if he i
36 Yellowstone : I don't see how you can declare that the public option won't be self-supporting when you don't know what it will charge in the way of premiums - that
37 L-188 : I don't think congress ought to know what the premiums are before inflicting them on the public. Seems like a vital need to know piece of information
38 DocLightning : Preventative healthcare saves a lot of money. But if people can't afford their meds, then they get sick, and then they have costly trips to the ER in
39 Post contains links WestWing : Please explain what you think is going to happen on day thousand that will at that time prevent you from keeping the insurance and doctor that you ha
40 Yellowstone : Har har. Anyway, there's no good reason to specify the premiums in the law--insurance companies don't declare their premiums right at their formation
41 Tsaord : I'm watching it now and support the president on this. Where is young people on this issue, his main base? This crap of standing ovations every 5 minu
42 EA CO AS : When WASN'T it that way, though? Being self-made, self-sufficient, standing on ones own two feet - aren't these the ideals this country was founded u
43 Tsaord : OMG Pelosi gave that man when he shouted at Obama the look of DEATH!! That woman has a long memory. Ask any GOP member from the Clinton years lol.....
44 WestWing : I am not a doctor, but I have an opinion. People keep repeating this yarn about how people have to wait for care in "socialized medicine" countries w
45 Baroque : A large part of the world is just simply shaking their collective heads in bemusement. I find myself torn between sympathy for those who suffer from
46 LTBEWR : After seeing this speech 'live', hearing some comments on it last night and this morning and thinking about it, I am disappointed. Yes, it was a well
47 NIKV69 : You live in Canada or ever been there? I know 3 people and two of them have waited 6 weeks and 2 and a half months. I got facts buddy. So do the Dems
48 Carlisle : I agree. Especially when it comes to Obama speaking. Now that is by far more important than Obama speaking. King Obama and Princess Pelosi at their b
49 NIKV69 : I thought it would be but Melanie stunk up the place pretty bad and then pouted about it after every bad shot she hit. Quite a let down. If it wasn't
50 MUWarriors : When the congressman yelled it was when Obama was talking about illegal immigrants, not the public option. You have anecdotal evidence. I have been t
51 NIKV69 : You ask 20 people you will get 20 stories but the facts remain that this system will never work in America. It is why we don't have it, why it didn't
52 MUWarriors : You, and other have said this, but I have yet to see a peer reviewed study that comes to this conclusion. Is it actually a fact, or an opinion on you
53 NIKV69 : Ok then call those 40 center Dems that have told the president they will not vote for it in it's present form which includes the tax hikes and public
54 Mir : I agree. My point was that I don't want to see something like what goes on with driver's licenses - one state has to accept a license from another st
55 Post contains links DXing : That is actually addressing two different points. Where it comes to the uninsured, President Obama was specific in saying that everyone must have ins
56 AGM100 : Thanks , yes he was not lying about that . The Dems want the illegals bad .... they will cover them in the end simply by granting amnesty. I believe
57 Mir : Advocating preventive care is not necessarily the same as advocating testing everyone for the sake of testing everyone. The point is that if your doc
58 Arrow : This is getting really, really tiresome and it is totally warping the debate on health care reform in the US. The level of misinformation and gross e
59 Post contains links Baroque : Fair comment. The discussion I heard had in additon to David Frum Resident Fellow of the American Enterprise Institute; founder of NewMajority.com (h
60 Post contains links Aaron747 : He is no longer of sound right-wing credentials since shouting down the mighty Rush Limbaugh! A man who is aggressive and bombastic, cutting and sarc
61 Arrow : A bit of irony here: David Frum is a Canadian, and son of (the late) Barbara Frum, a much respected CBC talk show hostess. She's probably spinning in
62 Post contains links DXing : From his speech: http://www2.arkansasonline.com/news/...bamas-health-care-speech-congress/ "And insurance companies will be required to cover, with n
63 AGM100 : Agreed , I have read the bill ( as much as I could without shooting myself) . They are counting on amnesty . They are right , they wont cover illegal
64 Dvk : He was referring to groups for whom those procedures are indicated, not any Joe Blow who says he wants some test that's unnecessary. Some insurers st
65 Peterpuck : I would never, ever, ever, ever, trade my health care for American style health care!! Some of the lies I've seen thrown about are simply laughable to
66 Dreadnought : Hold it right there. As you can see above I was one of the first to denounce Wilson's outburst. But you are taking things way too far. Don't equate s
67 Post contains links Sv7887 : I'd strongly suggest you look into the state of Healthcare in Massachusetts, the only state currently with near universal healthcare. That will show
68 Baroque : Ooops. Oh how naughty is that!! Still he can claim to have had a part in starting one war. Double ooops or is it a triple with the closet Commie affi
69 Dvk : This is just not true. It's the unyieldingly ideological Republicans, a very high percentage of whom are unwilling to compromise on anything, who hav
70 Post contains links Sv7887 : According to this article VLP development is much contested: http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/98/7/433 "If you ask patent offices, the
71 Mt99 : This is the stupidest measure. If you have it, I'm sure your happy! Hell i have insurance and i am extremely happy my insurance. You know why? becaus
72 AGM100 : -Medicare -fragile .. with fed tax receipts falling ... excepts a huge deficit and cuts -SCHIP- Required a budget expansion ..again, and is now being
73 Baroque : I did not say it was simple, I just dispute the word ALL. Perhaps I should found the "She'll be right Fly by night Insurance company" I should be abl
74 Post contains images Dreadnought : Wow, you are turning red...
75 AGM100 : We have federal oversight of insurance companies ... and the laws could be revamped and changed as the President alluded too last night. But that is
76 Post contains images AGM100 : Extremist .... ya that's right you hate and want to kill poor people . I am with you on this one ... I like my insurance good enough . I like being a
77 AverageUser : Thanks for putting this in a nutshell! The recent developments have made the Conservatives like the famous "boy in the plastic bubble". They can't li
78 Post contains links Arrow : I've always said Wikipedia can be a poor source. Try some of these: Mexico's Health Care Lures Americans http://www.news10.net/life/health/story.aspx
79 Post contains images Ken777 : Why didn't you ask that when Bush & Cheney were pushing to go into Iraq? Got us a multi-trillion dollar war and still haven't found the WMDs. But the
80 Ken777 : It's obvious that people lining close enough to either Canada or Mexico have a real economic advantage in slipping across the border for prescription
81 AGM100 : I don't mind paying taxes to get rid of Sadam types .... no problem money well spent. Every business is afraid of increased competition .... no matte
82 WarRI1 : My feelings to a "T" The world laughs at us more and more, we look at the sulking Republicans while a President tries to even thing a little for the
83 Yellowstone : Slight correction - the $200,000 isn't all from people he represents in his district, but from people all over the country. Ain't internet fundraisin
84 Ken777 : Best guess is that long term costs will exceed $3 Trillion (Trillion with a "T"). Obviously a big chunk if that $3 TRILLION is taking care of Vets ov
85 AGM100 : Ya because they don't get what it means to be a American ... Rare are the stories of regular people achieving the life style we can . Our economic op
86 Ken777 : Well the POMs might argue on his intelligence levels. But you're missing a lot when you talk about the US being the only country where people can suc
87 WarRI1 : You fight for "self" I and many others do not, we would like those who are enttitled to share the bounty. I think it is immoral to take and take, oth
88 Aaron747 : Yes, there are a lot of places in America that are fantastic to both live in and raise children - there are also a lot of places I'd never live or ra
89 L-188 : The bank that is financing the machine he is using for that MRI???
90 Post contains links DXing : Sorry, that does not wash. He did not deliniate between those who might be at risk and everyone. Read the statement again. "And insurance companies w
91 Ken777 : Not really. But it's a bit queer to moan about $80 to $90 Billion a year to provide major improvements in health card after sighing a blank check for
92 DXing : Money spent is money spent doesn't make any difference what it is spent on since it is still going out the door. One big difference, spending on the
93 AverageUser : The U.S. insurance companies should actually be inviting people to mammographies, for instance, and giving discounts to people who take these tests.
94 Centrair : Public health....BS....total BS.... Here in Japan...It sucks sooo much. I hate it. My two kids are free for any health issue until they are 15 years o
95 Dvk : You don't know what you're talking about, at all. There are already laws against physicians "referring patients to themselves" to prevent what you're
96 Wukka : I know that this is going to be so long that nobody is going to take the time to read it, but whatever. I certainly hope that they do! I can only hope
97 Baroque : That is certainly what manages to come over outside the magic walls surrounding the Great State. Yes, some of us can, mind you we had to practice for
98 Mt99 : Sure. How long was the war in Iraq supposed to last?
99 AGM100 : Never said it was the only place ...never. But more people do it there way in the US than anywhere else . We are a nation of entrepreneurs and self d
100 Dreadnought : I think everyone had around 8-10 years in their head when the war started for a sizeable military presence, followed by a smaller force on the ground
101 WarRI1 : First of all, I have always given to the Shriners. We all tend to paint with a broad brush. It was not the Democrats sitting there like Wooden Statue
102 Post contains links WarRI1 : http://www.projo.com/opinion/contrib..._09-11-09_DBFLDAU_v15.3f8b47d.html Right from the horses mouth, a Canadian who lives with a public health syste
103 Baroque : No, but I did have a colleague who had a licence to have an 0.5 calibre machine gun on the back of his truck, and he had a licence to fire bursts, fr
104 Ken777 : I consider myself a moderate. Voted for Bush I the first time and then got very pissed at the arrogance of his administration. Voted for Bush II the
105 WarRI1 :
106 Max550 : Where do I get health insurance if I were to quit my job and start a business? Wouldn't universal coverage give people more freedom to start their ow
107 Seb146 : When? According to Rummy, the war in Iraq was only supposed to last six months. How long have US Forces been occupying Iraq? So, it is okay, in your
108 Dreadnought : The war itself, yes, but expeditionary forces would stay for a lot longer. Remember that the US and other allies had full occupation forces in German
109 Ken777 : You'll probably be like me and go with a self-employed or small company group. That means you're giong to be paying a lot more for insurance and it w
110 AverageUser : It does. It's by ordinary people and for ordinary people. Don't be fooled by the moneymen folks.
111 DocLightning : They do. They very strongly encourage preventative care. They are aware that it keeps their costs down. Why? Why is the U.S. magically different from
112 AverageUser : But then I don't understand (yet another instance) why the President made a point of it at all? Do all schemes give the customers such an incentive a
113 Dreadnought : I think it's partially a question of scale. No European country is anywhere near the size and population of the US, and any federally managed program
114 AverageUser : Can you estimate the function for us? Would that detrimental effect be a linear one? Would an organisation of 60 millions (say France) be affected at
115 Dreadnought : I would expect it to be exponential. The solution would be to decentralize - you know, how the US was supposed to be managed.
116 Post contains links DXing : Then neither does the President since that is his suggestion regarding prevenitive medicine. Again, the Presidents own words: "And insurance companie
117 AverageUser : Ok, then the States only need to work together and present a scheme of decentralised healthcare. Apparently the effect of the unknown inefficiency fu
118 Dvk : I did, and you're again comparing apples and oranges. One of your links didn't work, but Wilson's single, insulting yell of "You lie" to the Presiden
119 Arrow : We'll take back the Pacific Northwest; anything to help a friend. The size argument is totally bogus. Countries from 10 million to 100 million succes
120 Seb146 : I will never ever understand how the Iraqi invasion and occupation is neccessary, so stop telling me it is. How many times were insurgents from Iraq
121 Ken777 : When an insurance company refuses to approve payment for a treatment or test and the patient cannot afford to pay out of pocket then the insurance co
122 Post contains links DXing : So insults come in apples and oranges? That is an interesting point of view, some people getting insulted is not as important as another? Tell that t
123 Baroque : Make you wonder if we should not ask the Mods to add to the title, "Including the inadvertent comedy hour". If the US is too big to govern why does i
124 DXing : And perhaps living a country where you are free to make your own choices is a bit of a mental challenge for some.
125 Post contains links Baroque : See there you go again. Hong Kong 90.0 +0.3 2 Singapore 87.1 -0.2 3 Australia 82.6 +0.4 4 Ireland 82.2 -0.3 5 New Zealand 82.0 +1.2 6 United States 8
126 Ken777 : If you don'r have the money to pay out of pocket when your insurance company says "No" then the insurance company IS making the decision on the treat
127 Post contains links DXing : Yep, the devil is in the details. Comparing the two countries the U.S. comes up short in four areas to Australia. Government size. "Total government
128 Yellowstone : You don't actually have to vote in Australia - you just have to show up at a polling place on Election Day, or provide an excuse (illness, travel, et
129 DXing : When does the building begin, before, or after the financing is in place? Does the quality of the building depend on the financing or the constructio
130 DocLightning : No it's not. More people=more tax revenue. The economy of scale does not change when you go from 60 million to 250 million. It is a question of spend
131 Ken777 : But less in others, like needing to stay "in network" when selecting doctors, or not receiving the full benefit you pay cash out for. Actually Austra
132 DXing : As I explained, if you have the means you don't need to stay in network and there are polices available tht allow you to pick your own doctor. It's a
133 Post contains links and images DXing : Sure it does for not all of those people are paying the same rate in tax. Some are paying none and others are paying max. There is only one way to re
134 Post contains links Dreadnought : Let's take the state of New York, for example - hardly a state known for efficient government, but it has its own income tax system. 20 million peopl
135 Ken777 : Your number seems to assume that the IRS only works on individual tax returns. How about business taxes? Did your research exclude every business fro
136 Dreadnought : Are you saying that states don't tax businesses? Perhaps you should not have brought up that subject, because the states not only get tax returns fro
137 DocLightning : Then explain to me why we are the ONLY country with such a force. Who were we going to be using it against?
138 Dreadnought : Russia and China are both building new classes of SSBNs. Ours are 20-30 years old and we have no plans to replace them (luckily the Ohio class was ah
139 WarRI1 : It is funny, after reading all this blather, including my own. I just watched the movie the "Rainmaker" from 1997. It covered this argument quite well
140 Ken777 : WIth insurance premiums the way they are a lot of people can only afford what's available in network. Finding out who are the best docs doesn't matte
141 WarRI1 : A few years ago, the wife of a friend of mine had kidney cancer, they went to Yale Medical which was out of the network, our insurance through the co
142 Post contains links DXing : We are not the "only" country with such a force. http://www.navy.mil/navydata/cno/n87/faq.html Many of these submarines are longer than a football fi
143 Seb146 : Here we go again with the right changing history. What really happened is: People origionally wanted reform. But, since the right-wing talking head w
144 Yellowstone : I'm not criticizing the study's methodology, but rather its choice of what to study. The Heritage Foundation picked a limited set of metrics on which
145 Dreadnought : What's your point? I compared NY State tax manpower against the IRS, business and individual all included. You just can't admit you're wrong, can you
146 Ken777 : It's interesting to see how people determine who is a good doctor. Some people like the one that pat them on their back. Fortunately with my wire's e
147 Baroque : You just never know when or how to admit you are wrong DX do you? Zackerly. For those you do not understand it is a compulsion to vote for those who
148 Post contains links DXing : As polled a majority of Americans don't consider that to be a "freedom" under the current proposed legislation. OK, Lets check it: 1. Why woudn't the
149 DocLightning : Because it was set up to fail. Amtrak can't run successfully if it can't invest in its own infrastructure. In every other country that has started go
150 Baroque : Que? I must be from Barthalona. Oh do stop going on about compulsory voting. As explained, it is not compulsory voting. You just think it is. Some of
151 DXing : Aside from the fact that all those countries are smaller, that should be case one for showing how politics, at least in this country, is best left ou
152 Yellowstone : No, it is not. You have to turn up at a polling site, but once you're in the booth you can just submit a blank ballot, or vote for your pet kangaroo,
153 DXing : Same difference. You are saying you have to show up whereas in this country you don't have to go any where near a polling booth your entire life if y
154 Ken777 : Too dumb to know what they are missing? After living for 8 years in Australia I can say with experience that any assumption that we have more "freedo
155 DXing : Well, after that refreshing comment, I'll give that comment the correct amount of bias it deserves. You just want to give a screwed up government bur
156 Seb146 : I notice you avoided how the cost of premiums rose versus income. And, both are out of business, aren't they? "Almost 90%" is nowhere near 89% which
157 DocLightning : They're smaller. Non-sequiturs make me eat lampshades. Oh, you're proud, all right. To the point where you trash other countries. I very much hope yo
158 Ken777 : Don't think there are problems in private care? About 100,000 estimated to die in hospital each year from medical "accidents". My sister had expensiv
159 Baroque : Now read this carefully. There is no law in Australia that states you must vote. End of story.
160 DocLightning : This would be DX, who has NEVER ONCE in the time I've been on A.net admitted he was wrong. Even when presented with clear evidence that he was wrong,
161 DocLightning : That's not always so simple, though. For example, one of my professors in residency was notorious for admitting children to the hospital who did not
162 Ken777 : The benefit of being a physio and working on multiple doctor's patients is that you see their outcomes over time and with a wide range of patients. O
163 Baroque : Thanks for that Doc, but rest assured, many of us know America and Americans far too well to be taken in that that represents the US of A. We know it
164 WarRI1 : I am on SS. and Medicare, Thank God for them. I have a pension and savings, there are millions who do not, thanks to various reasons, not all their o
165 Post contains links DXing : Not at all, if I had wanted to do that I would have just cherry picked quotes and not linked the story as others here do. Or even worse just tossed o
166 Post contains links DXing : And now for some much needed comic relief. Oh those early, hazy, crazy days where you could say anything, call the sitting President a failure yet not
167 AustinAirport : Our last president had the access to speech writers, and teleprompters as well. However, sadly, he couldn't pronounce the word Nuclear, leaving many
168 Baroque : I did tell you to read it carefully. The law in practice states that you must turn up at a polling booth and have your name marked off. What you do a
169 DXing : Well two of your suggestions do constitute a vote, even if it is a wasted one. Again: Is there an updated act in force? Because the act itself says "
170 DocLightning : But that ballot may be submitted blank, as long as you submit it. And anyone may submit it by mail. So really, the law simply mandates that you must
171 Post contains links Baroque : Check the newspapers from 2007, latish, you will find we already did that. Next. You know what they say, two peoples divided by a common language. Yo
172 AverageUser : You should not do that. It has been known for a long time in some circles that the U.S. is simply too large geographically for a national-level healt
173 Post contains links Windy95 : So you are sending in extra checks? All of you progressives, liberals , socialist must be sending in extra money to your government every month. Or a
174 Baroque : Yep, the Battle of Brisbane all over again. As it happens in my case yes. Next question?
175 N867DA : It's more money in your pocket, not freedom. Please don't get the two mixed up-they are quite different.
176 DXing : Even a blank ballot is a form of a vote. It doesn't change anything. And of course you've sent in your extra money since I don't see any sign the tax
177 Baroque : Already answered. In relation to the law, the only problem is that the law does not mean what you seem to think it means. There is a HUGE literature
178 WarRI1 : Dear Leaders lies, am I to presume you are talking about Mao? He is dead. Fox news as a link? now that is trustworthy, not slanted in any way, I am s
179 Seb146 : Who lied about what? Even this FOX link said Obama is willing to look at tort reform and is willing to pass health care reform that benefits ALL Amer
180 DocLightning : The Spokespeople for the Right spoke on Election Day: "We want him to fail." (Limbaugh, Hannity, et al.) Now they will do whatever they can, be it li
181 Ken777 : It's folly to assume that there is no indirect rationing with private insurance. Denying payment boost profits and people getting denied payments or
182 Dreadnought : Actually opinion is split half and half. Some Repubicans, like you say, want to prevent Obama from doing anything. But of course, we have a minority
183 DocLightning : I think that right now, the Democratic Party is showing that it is incapable of doing much and the GOP is showing that it is capable of doing a lot o
184 Dreadnought : Like what? It is too small a minority! Obama keeps blaming Republicans for blocking him, but he does not need a SINGLE Republican vote to do anything
185 Seb146 : And that messege is carried out by their minions; those that hang on their every word. Yet, when anyone who tries to disprove any of the lies of the
186 AGM100 : Drop the government insurance program out of it and loosen up rules of competition in the insurance business and they would be singing Kumbaya with t
187 Windy95 : My subdivision has a central area up on the hill. Guess who owns all of the mutli- miliion dollar homes with million dollar 1/4 acre lots? Not the in
188 Ken777 : When heath insurance CEOs pulled in a median compensation package of $10.3 Million last year it's pretty clear that these dudes could pay cash for th
189 AGM100 : Its not propaganda ...unless you call the actual bill propaganda . I realize now there are many different variants of the bill.... but lets face it i
190 Dreadnought : And how many Insurance CEOs are there in the country? Compared to the number of doctors? I'm not advocating that we do this, but just that just sayin
191 Ken777 : I'm now at the point where I believe that any bill that does not address the need of those without big incomes or those with medical issues in their
192 AGM100 : Maybe ... but profits create jobs ,profits pay for the programs you want. Remember ... Government generates no revenue ... it only takes out of the p
193 Yellowstone : Perhaps not, but the existence of the poor helps you get more with the money your job provides. Goods would be a lot more expensive if everyone recei
194 Dreadnought : Ever hear of outsourcing? Be careful what you wish for.
195 Yellowstone : True, but I was more trying to make the point that, as we give credit to the rich for generating the jobs that keep us solvent, we should also give c
196 WarRI1 : Once again, the desire to maintain the Staus Quo. We hear over and over and over on here, let them be, they create the jobs, let us bow down and let
197 Arrow : To be fair, Tommy Douglas introduced universal health care in Saskatchewan (and endured doctors strikes and all the same crap I'm hearing from the US
198 WarRI1 : The key part is that it did become a national system and it works. Once on a trip to Quebec City, a family trip, when one of my nephews became ill. W
199 Ken777 : No matter how people want to maintain the Status Quo things are changing a lot outside of health reform. A recent news article has talked about this
200 Propilot83 : I enjoyed the speech by President Obama. I believe that now the American people can understand how serious this situation is and that if we do nothing
201 Post contains links and images Dreadnought : Just don't want to listen do you? We want reform. The number of people who don't want reform is something like 6%. But we don't want this all-or-noth
202 Seb146 : Why, then, have we the people been complaining about health care being out of control and the Republicans did nothing *NOTHING* about it when they ha
203 AGM100 : No to the status quo .... get the government restrictions and game playing out of the system and we will be fine. Like the lady said ... there are 15
204 Ken777 : Multiple laws. States want their own little world - something called state rights. If there is a better deal than you have in another state then why
205 AGM100 : Why ? If you didn't make money during that time, then sorry , you may never be able to make money. Our economy goes up and down ... that is how it wo
206 Post contains links StasisLAX : Thank God that justice has been done with Representative Wilson. It is an important accomplishment that the United States Congress has reprimanded Joe
207 Ken777 : I never said I didn't make any money during the early years. Buy, as I noted above, I don;t believe in the me-me-me approach as it will come back and
208 AGM100 : So they needed that before they could pass health-care reform ? They have the super majority... what is taking so long? I mean ... what more do they
209 WarRI1 : It reminds me of what the contract with America of Newt Gingrich did, nothing, absolutely nothing to help the common man. That contract did plenty fo
210 DocLightning : We've demonstrated that the "Free Market" in healthcare is not a free market, because we've already decided that you have a right to medical treatmen
211 Seb146 : What more do they need? To know the right supports reform. If the leaders on the right would have told the racists to just shut up, Dems would not be
212 Averageuser : Of course they don't and won't understand. It's been totally futile of the President to wait anything to happen on that front. Those folks are either
213 Post contains links Aaron747 : Here are the numbers from the NEJM poll: A total of 62.9 per cent of physicians who participated in the survey by the prestigious New England Journal
214 Mt99 : So who are the hold ups? The Insurance Companies... hmmm i wonder why..
215 Ken777 : I'm not surprised. I have both Medicare and VA Health and the previous expensive health insurance I had before cannot compare. Forget the premium cos
216 Post contains links DXing : Doesn't matter what I "think" it means but rather what it says and that is pretty clear. I guess you're still looking for the link that shows the ele
217 Seb146 : Which did not happen until when? That's right: AFTER the Afgan invasion! And, it was only a few al-Qaida members. Never mind the madrasas in Saudi Ar
218 Yellowstone : No, I'm afraid that's you. You seem to think that the government is going to dictate a maximum number of tooth extractions for sh**s and giggles. Tha
219 DocLightning : " target=_blank>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJxmp...MGhU0 you have a right to debate and disagree. You do NOT have a right to become so obstructio
220 Post contains links DXing : Wrong again. Page 257 of the 9/11 commission report describes how Iranian officials allowed a number of AQ members to transit the country before the
221 Post contains links Seb146 : http://www.gnn.tv/articles/article.php?id=761 Lies surrounding invading Iraq is what I was talking about. You changed the argument to Iran, China, Ru
222 Max550 : First off, we're not talking about government run health care, rather an insurance option that would be run by the government. Secondly, if private i
223 Ken777 : I actually don't have a problem with these plump compensation packages. My position is fairly simple - when insurance companies can afford this level
224 AverageUser : Only in reality a public healthcare system that I know will not work that way. There's nothing in the way of a number of allowable procedures per yea
225 Aaron747 : That's not what the rabble-rousers on the right wing TV and talk show circuit have been saying - rather than opposition to the plan itself or who is
226 Post contains links DXing : OK, let me amend my statement since obviously it wasn't clear enough for you. I will bet you my paycheck against yours that if we were to go into the
227 AverageUser : As has been discussed, there are many ways to organize a public health care system. I'm priviliged to live in a highly taxed small country with an ef
228 Ken777 : Wal-Mart seems to prove otherwise - high volumes and low margins. I have no real pity for insurance companies facing competition from a public option
229 Baroque : Oh well, nice to know you believe everything you read. That is what it says, but not what it means. I imagine that other Aus a.net members have given
230 Seb146 : So, first, I am accused of making stuff up. Then, when I provide a link straight from the horse's mouth, no less, the person that heard and published
231 Baroque : As the proud mother said, "our Johnny is the only one in step". Even actuality does not beat selective reading Seb!!!
232 LTBEWR : I think that the health care reforms, but for a few tweaks on regulating private plans, are dead. People all across the spectrum have their reasons Al
233 Baroque : Wow. One way or another that has to be a whopper (or a whopper or a whopper).
234 Averageuser : It might be it hurts a bit but just think of all that punchy military hardware that your money buys globally. All those unfriendly nations out there,
235 Post contains links Dreadnought : Why are you blaming us for the holdup? You don't need a single Republican vote in the House or Senate, and you have a friendly president. Go ahead an
236 Aaron747 : Obama did intend to do that - but everyone and their mother knows Rahm Emanuel has been pounding every meeting table with his version of things, and
237 AverageUser : I'm starting to blame everyone for the holdup -- "America has got the best politicians money can buy" someone has said. Do I need to say more?
238 DXing : And the ones doing the organizing have so far, presented plans that, when scored by their own auditing arm, will be inefficient and cost more. As dis
239 Post contains links Seb146 : You forgot friend of the Bush family, but don't let that get in the way. You are always screaming about links and wanting sources, when you, yourself
240 Ken777 : Unless, of course you are in an accident at work and then you're in the hands of a workers comp doc - really impressive. Or you're in a car accident
241 Post contains links DXing : If I make a claim as fact, I back it up with source material. Get the picture? Neither did I. Until you actually provided a link how could I question
242 Ken777 : Since my experience is in retailing (all phases, including financial management, systems and consultant) I'm pretty aware of where margins can be and
243 Seb146 : And how many of those were promoted when the teabaggers got involved? All we heard from the teabaggers is how the Obama plan is evil and the Obama pl
244 DXing : And I'll repeat you're wrong. You've made the claim, you can back it up with facts or drop it. If you were losing money that might be true, but since
245 Ken777 : SInce I spent years in retailing and you spend your time dispatching airplanes I'm assuming that you know a little bit less than I do on business pro
246 DocLightning : Don't argue with him. He has never once admitted to being wrong.
247 Seb146 : AFTER the attacks started from the right. AFTER the right started hurling insults and claiming death panels and illegals are covered and all the rest
248 Post contains links DXing : I've actually done more than just dispatch airplanes. I never said you need 10% just that is the goal that most would shoot for as a base. I linked a
249 Ken777 : Slightly? Like 54.5% above the average of 2.2% Well, on your numbers below UnitedHealth increased sales 7%, profits went up 9% and Cash Flow was $1.6
250 DXing : And 761% below the top earner. Want to play dumb number games some more? Apples and oranges. Does not answer the question that I posed. How well will
251 Seb146 : You should have kept quoting to the next line which says that the president has to form a coalition of other countries to invade, prove that Iraq is
252 DXing : Here is the rest of the section, that you could have just as easily cut and pasted i might add. If you would care to point out where it says the the
253 AverageUser : Gosh, it's nobody but you who's paying for your own checkup. Insurance companies make their profits by collecting their clients' money and not return
254 DocLightning : And let's not forget that a HUGE amount goes to pay incredibly bloated, multimillion dollar salaries to CEO's. For-profit insurance needs to go. That
255 DXing : Of course my preimiums, when I'm not sick, go to support other individuals that are. As when I get sick, hopefully not anytime soon, the reverse will
256 DocLightning : Sure. Make medical education completely free like they do in Finland and I'll jump right on board. I need a large salary to pay off my education, all
257 Dreadnought : It reminds of of why Soviet doctors were crap - they paid doctors the same as mechanics. But you can't deny that doctors, once you take into account
258 Post contains links DXing : Agreed and reflected in a poll I linked to. And since it is Friday, here is that second opinion from doctors for health care reform. http://www.ibded
259 DocLightning : Well, yeah. Do *YOU* want a minimum-wage pilot OR doctor? Sorry, but when life or limb are at stake, the people should be compensated well. Well, duh
260 Post contains links AverageUser : It's instructive that you added "hopefully not anytime soon". I'm unsure of the semantics of "the difference" but should you fall ill chronically tom
261 Dreadnought : So doctors should be well compensated but the business who absorbs the financial risks associated with your illness should not? Why keep her that lon
262 Mt99 : Who makes the decision now? The insurance call center attendant in India?
263 DXing : As you are ignoring the fact that, as in my tooth implant which cost me $3000, I, and anyone else with the means, such as you, can go out and buy the
264 Mt99 : So is their "corporate umbrella" getting the quoted 3.4% profit? or just the "health insurance" division?
265 AGM100 : I was done with is thread ... but I had to gloat a bit. The President laid out his plan to eliminate covering non citizens today in the health-care bi
266 DocLightning : Nobody is going to do that. Nobody has even remotely proposed that. Where are you getting this nonsense? How's 6 years of experience as a physician (
267 Arrow : You are being hoisted on your own petard over this, trying desperately to ignore that fact that your insurance premiums, and the coverage they provid
268 AverageUser : And one of these sources is a basement room where the company print their own money? No, the money they receive from their investments is a product o
269 Dreadnought : He would not have the authority. The insurance company might say that they might not pay for a certain procedure, but they wont and can't say that th
270 Post contains links AverageUser : Nonsense. http://www.emaxhealth.com/1/38/31546...rs-follow-similar-career-path.html Who on earth is feeding this to you?
271 Seb146 : For some reason, the first few times I read that last night, that was what I thought it was about gathering a coalition of the willing. Because of my
272 DocLightning : I agree with you, but the defense wasn't of his ideas; my read was that it was of his behavior. And I think you and I agree that was very inappropria
273 Arrow : I won't believe that until you post a credible source for it. Emphasis on the word "credible" -- Glenn Beck doesn't fit that category. There is a wid
274 Ken777 : Sure do. 3.4% is 6.6% below this magic number you seem to dream about. A 761% below your 10% number would be a very negative percentage - like the co
275 Post contains links Dreadnought : " target=_blank>http://www.emaxhealth.com/1/38/31546....html I looked it up. The street is Harley Street, and those doctors who work there do so at t
276 Post contains links DXing : Amusing how you keep flip flopping from not caring what happens to insurance companies because of your veterans benefits and medicare to being concer
277 Arrow : You put this forward as a fact. It's someone's proposal, and a hotly contested one at that.
278 Dreadnought : The time to kill it is when it is still a proposal, and NOT to wait for it to become fact.
279 StasisLAX : Congressman Billy Tauzin, Louisiana Republican, who steered the Part D bill through the US House of Representatives, retired after the bill passed on
280 Ken777 : Let me go through it slow and you might understand. 1. I have VA medical care and use that all the time. 2. I also have Medicare and pay for gap insu
281 DXing : Should we take a look at fmr. Sen. Daschelle to start our look at demcratic party members that have gone to work for private industry. Both sides do
282 Post contains links AverageUser : Yes, there's even a phrase "Harley Street doctor" in British English, but that is not the only place where non-NHS doctors are "allowed" to practice
283 Ken777 : First you need to understand that not everyone is part of the me-me-me generation and can actually try to think about the country, and not just their
284 Seb146 : When anyone from the GOP does it, c'est la vie. Yet, when anyone from the Democratic party does it, we should stop what we are doing, become outraged
285 Post contains links DXing : The corporation reports their quarterly earnings. Yeah, saw that myself and was just as amazed. It'll be interesting to see if the uninsured number m
286 Post contains links Ken777 : Because people want something doesn't mean they will get it. Just look at all the good folks denied health insurance coverage because of a medical co
287 Seb146 : So, tell me again how Saddam had ANY hand in the Sept 11 attacks? What was that? How did that go? So, nation building is fine. But, submitting propos
288 Arrow : Here's the full story about why our health care costs only half the US version, hot off the press: Canada has so many unfair health-care advantages, i
289 DocLightning : And I have assured you over and over and over that that will NEVER happen. They CANNOT ban fee-for-service. That would put every plastic surgeon, LAS
290 Arrow : Ask yourself the same question. Why do millions of Americans trek to other countries -- Mexico for example -- to get health care services at about ha
291 Post contains images L-188 : Yeah but your dental bills are through the roof because of it.
292 DocLightning : Because we happen to have the Mayo Clinic, Sloan-Kettering Memorial, Cedar-Sinai, UCSF, etc. Those are the result of having a lot of people and resou
293 Ken777 : And the odd thing today is that Americans are starting to travel overseas for surgeries because they can save a fortune. Private insurance companies
294 DocLightning : All stop. I'm talking about banning even allowing you to pay for your own procedures if you want. You can go to Canada and arrange to pay for a proce
295 Seb146 : Like Medicare? Where does it say that? In the real world (the one that I live in, not the one you live in), what happenes when you don't like the ins
296 Post contains links DXing : Me-me-me is wanting someone else to pay for your ride, certainly not being responsible and taking care of your own if you are an able bodied adult ci
297 Mt99 : So it is possible that the "insurance arm" can make 50% profit. But since the umbrella corporation reports, it could mean that the rest of the busine
298 DXing : Yes but highly unlikely. Absolutely.
299 Mt99 : Why unlikely? Until you are the CEO or CFO of an corporation who has a insurance, i will believe you
300 DocLightning : Prove it.
301 Post contains links Seb146 : Ah, yes. So, when I said "those children can still have their parents insure them through their health care plan instead" I was wrong? Even though th
302 Ken777 : Actually I'm now on disability after two cancers. Was on Medicare 2 years before turning 65 and worked during my able "bodied years". My "ride" was j
303 Post contains links DXing : Because in order to drive down the entire corporations profit percentage to 3.4% how much money would the rest of the corporations umbrella companies
304 Ken777 : Now look at the increases in the price of health insurance and compare that to the increases in wages & salaries. Oooops! Of course, since you believ
305 Mt99 : Depends on what % the insurance arm represents. Im sure each company would be different So you do not stand by your arguments. Great.
306 DocLightning : Well, guess what? There are very few fee-for-service guys out in the boonies with the current, private system for the exact same reason. So it doesn'
307 AverageUser : Your "end-of-the-financial-year rationing" is a completely bogus made-up straw man argument from the DX news agency. With the constructing of bogus p
308 Seb146 : And, as many of us have pointed out many times, they did not "speak" through polls until the lies came out. They did not "speak" out on any of the al
309 Post contains links DXing : Yep, ooops, as George Will had in his column several months ago: http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/will062909.php3 Most Americans do want different h
310 DocLightning : I say again, that is your own conclusion. That does not reflect the current reality of any government healthcare system currently in use anywhere in
311 DXing : Yep, just ignore the links I posted that show just that taking place up in Vancouver. No need to acknowledge them. Yep, ignore the Coast Guard and Ai
312 AverageUser : Sure, an everyday occurrence in that DX-country with a population of 1.
313 Mt99 : No, no.. I asked a question.. see: No claim there. Just posing a question. To which you responded (ie made the claim) see: You are the one with the c
314 Ken777 : But you only believe they are "right" when they agree with you. They do a very good job on Medicare, except for that Advantage program were private c
315 Seb146 : The, Bush and Brownie got the federal troops involved. How hard would it have been to stage trucks of supplies and empty buses outside the "disaster
316 Post contains links and images DXing : My "claim" was twofold. You wondered how the individual companies did right? By questioning the numbers you make the claim that somehow the other umb
317 Seb146 : It's funny how GOP cheerleaders find fault with the way the Democratic governer and Democratic mayor handled the run-up to Katrina. How hard would it
318 DXing : Funny how Mayor Nagin ordered a mandatory evacuation on the 28th and yet did not offer any way for those with no transportation to evacuate. I guess
319 Ken777 : Not really, it's pretty obvious to almost everyone. If you need an elective (or non-emergency) procedure then you really don't want to be taken to th
320 DXing : Not unless an emergency or extra appropriation is made. Why do you think there is such consternation in Congress every spring when it becomes apparen
321 DocLightning : Ever hear of the phrase "The Buck Stops Here"? Responsibility doesn't start at the top, it ENDS there.
322 DXing : And if the responsible people at the local and State level had been doing their jobs then the problem wouldn't have been nearly as out of control as
323 Post contains images AverageUser : NOT My Job
324 Seb146 : No. What I am saying, if you bothered to read my post, is that Bush should have put country before party, left the fund raiser and did some leading.
325 Post contains links DXing : And exactly what was he going to do in both those instances? You delegate authority to others so you don't have to be everywhere at once. The evacuat
326 Seb146 : Be a leader? Show the American people that he was a leader? Stand up and do some leading? He found out the planes hit the Towers while he was sitting
327 Post contains links DXing : And as I've asked repeatedly how? Exactly what would you have had him do? Come hold your hand so until the big bad boogey man has gone away? Give som
328 Dreadnought : Can you be specific? You say "Lead", but that's such a vague term. Lead the kids to the bathroom? For the past 8 years, people made fun of him for no
329 Ken777 : And the Federal Government is impotent to do anything? Like start lining up needed supplies (like food & water) and chopper it in if necessary? Or di
330 Post contains links AverageUser : I'm interested if you've read this bit: http://www.historycommons.org/timeli...ush&timeline=complete_911_timeline . It does put W in a very strange l
331 Post contains links DXing : Not impotent but not required or at that point even requested. Again, a total lack of any kind of willingness to recognize that evacuation plans and
332 Ken777 : If you remember correctly, the billions being spent started under Bush/Cheney - when the economy and job took a nose dive. AA is getting out of the n
333 AverageUser : The "tough luck, dude" state is both easy to socially engineer and will match the typical Conservative mindset flexibility of a steel I-bar just grea
334 Seb146 : He should have excused himself the second he heard something had happened instead of sitting there with that silly smirk on his face and "being polit
335 DXing : And as I have stated more than once here that was a mistake and I didn't agree with the President on that spending. Not unless they file bankruptcy a
336 Ken777 : Maybe Bush understood the financial crisis we would have been in if he had not taken that action. Maybe he understood the political problems for the
337 Seb146 : You really are a piece of work, you know that? McClellan decided to make a change. Why? Because a few chapters had been delivered by the end of July
338 DXing : Nope, but you also added in your post "with others sure to follow". Other than the union work force who would that be? As I expect it to be. I expect
339 Ken777 : Non-union workers who are still employed? Some people seem to think that employer funded health insurance is a God given right. Since medical insuran
340 DXing : Not God given but negotiated as part of a pay an benefits package. This has already been debunked. The numbers you were putting up earlier were compl
341 Cws818 : You don't think Hurricane Katrina was a disaster on a MUCH larger scale?
342 Ken777 : And it is getting reviewed more intensively every year. That's is the central fact I have been trying to get through to you. I believe it is folly to
343 DXing : Good, I would hope any responsible company reviews and renegotiates every year and if the company they are dealing with is not putting out a good pro
344 DocLightning : It amazes me. After Obama won, a bunch of people talked about how they wanted to move to another country. Which one, folks? We live in the most conse
345 Ken777 : Well, Medicare Advantage - the private insurance approach established to show how to efficiently run the program is giong to cost (at the current rat
346 DocLightning : Nope. He's quite happy to pay taxes to pay for two things: 1) Military 2) Roads
347 Ken777 : And maybe air traffic control.
348 Post contains links DXing : I find it interesting that you don't cite any sources for your numbers. Yet when a company like Humana tries to get information out the government st
349 Ken777 : Note the quote starts with, "The ADDITIONAL cost . . ." Doesn't that pretty clearly indicate that it costs more to taxpayers than basic Medicare? Doe
350 DXing : Just ignore the "additional benefits" line which is why, according to the CBO most seniors sign up for the plan. The government sets the benchmarks a
351 Ken777 : And increase the costs for all taxpayers? Sure, why not? It looks like you're supporting increased spending for seniors (thank you very much!) and I
352 Post contains links LipeGIG : This thread become too big and now it's closed. Please continue on Part II Obama Healthcare Speech To Congress - Part II (by LipeGIG Sep 26 2009 in No
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