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Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift  
User currently offlineTsaord From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2583 times:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...9/10/wilsons-opponent-raises-100k/

Quote:
WASHINGTON (CNN) — Joe Wilson's outburst has resulted in a cash windfall for his 2010 Democratic challenger Rob Miller.

According to the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, Miller raised $100,000 overnight from 3,000 individual donors after Wilson shouted "You lie!" at President Obama during his address to Congress on Wednesday night.

If that is indeed true I think it signals that still Americans believe you should respect the office of the President whether you disagree with him or not. Things like that should not be tolerated. But if its enough to cost him his seat remains to be seen.

113 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2584 times:

I think we all agree that behavior was not acceptable but as far as his seat I am not so sure. Not to mention if Obama is found to have been lying (which is probably the case) it will be a boost to him.

User currently offlineMBMBOS From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2598 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2551 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
...mention if Obama is found to have been lying (which is probably the case)...

How is it "probably the case"?

Please show me how.


User currently offlineHomer71 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2245 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2546 times:

Nice going, Joe, way to provide fuel for the Dems...

Idiot.



"On spaceship earth there are no passengers...only crew."
User currently offlineFuturePilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2541 times:



Quoting Tsaord (Thread starter):
If that is indeed true I think it signals that still Americans believe you should respect the office of the President whether you disagree with him or not. Things like that should not be tolerated. But if its enough to cost him his seat remains to be seen.

First, Wilson is an idiot, right off the bat. The republicans all come up with these crazy ideas to which they have no evidence. No where in the bill has it come out that Obama's healthcare supports illegals. Second, I thought it was completely disrespectful and a lack of ethics on his part. How dare him disrespect the leader of this country during such an important speech to the senate and the country. I don't care if it was a camera guy or a janitor who said, but a senator? When Bush proposed (well not proposed but actually LIED) to the senate about Saddam's WMD's, no one interrupted him and called him a LIAR. They all gave him the respect he deserves, whether they like him or not. I thought he was completely ignorant and I hope he resigns. Whether you think Obama is a liar or not, it's total not the right place for you to be shouting that out. Everyone, and I mean everyone including republicans and dem's denounced his action. He is going to regret what he did because he'll never be re-elected to another senate seat. How immature.

And I do hope this gives Obama a lift. It shows how immature these republicans are. All these talks of death panels and what not, it's totally absured.



"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlineForce13 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2535 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
if Obama is found to have been lying (which is probably the case)

Uh, it is in the legislation that Obama was, in fact, correct. We can all read it and even many republicans looked at Mr. Wilson with disdain after he opened his mouth.

Add to the fact that Mr. Wilson is in the National Guard his little outburst coul;d get him court martialed (I think that's unlikely)



Do not taunt. Do not shake. Do not pander. Add coffee. Subject should be slightly human within an hour.
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6860 posts, RR: 34
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2524 times:



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 4):
No where in the bill has it come out that Obama's healthcare supports illegals.

http://help.senate.gov/BAI09A84_xml.pdf

Eligible individuals can certainly be construed to mean illegals. Per the link below, the Congressional Research Service notes that HR 3200 does NOT contain any restrictions on non-citizens, legal or illegal, temp or permanent. Unless it has a specific inhibitor, the assumption is made that illegals ARE included in coverage. Thus far, Obama hasn’t said a peep about it, nor have any of the House or Senate lapdogs when pushed on it.

So in substance, Wilson was correct and while I too denounce his method, on some level, I’m glad someone cut through the charming oratory and nebulosity to call something like it is. Why doesn’t Obama himself clarify then? Ask yourself that. And why was there derisive laughing when Obama himself said there are details to be worked out? It’s laughable, that’s why. The whole damned bill is ridiculous, poorly constructed, even more poorly justified from an economic sense, not paid for, no answers have been giving nor are they forthcoming, and yet the “crisis” peddling continues.

No wonder town hall meetings are angry. No wonder the American people are speaking out!!


http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...imon_apologizes_for_breach_of.html


User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2778 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2500 times:



Quoting Slider (Reply 6):
Per the link below, the Congressional Research Service notes that HR 3200 does NOT contain any restrictions on non-citizens, legal or illegal, temp or permanent.

Except for Sec. 246 which is titled "No Federal Payment for Undocumented Aliens", which specifically prohibits affordability credits for anyone not lawfully present in the United States.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineMBMBOS From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2598 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2500 times:



Quoting Slider (Reply 6):
HR 3200 does NOT contain any restrictions on non-citizens, legal or illegal, temp or permanent.

From factcheck.org:

However, the bill does explicitly say that illegal immigrants can’t get any government money to pay for health care. Page 143 states: "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States." And as we’ve said before, current law prohibits illegal immigrants from participating in government health care programs."

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/twenty-six-lies-about-hr-3200/

Quoting Slider (Reply 6):
No wonder town hall meetings are angry. No wonder the American people are speaking out!!

Oh, Americans are speaking out! Vast droves of Americans are getting angry and are ready to topple our current socialist government!

Baloney! A few right wingers who can't ever stand it when they don't get their way and who attack our government institutions any time they don't get their desired result. The courts are always "activists", Congress is always "corrupt" and the presidency is a "socialist/fascist conspiracy".

A few years ago anybody who had a voice who questioned our reasons for going to war was criticized severely, accused of treason.

The president can't give a speech without somebody throwing a tantrum? That's all it is; somebody who wants to get his own way. This is why so many people who consider themselves conservatives, who are intellectually honest and principled in their beliefs, are leaving the Republican Party.


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11422 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2487 times:



Quoting Slider (Reply 6):
http://help.senate.gov/BAI09A84_xml.pdf

Eligible individuals can certainly be construed to mean illegals.

You just linked to a 615 page file. Why don't you point out the part that you think is offensive to you re: illegals.
(But be warned, I will respond with facts. I'll start with this one: the actual bill: http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf . Now, turn to page 143. What does it say?)

Quoting Slider (Reply 6):
So in substance, Wilson was correct

If by correct, you mean incorrect. It's right there in the bill. Look at page 143.

Quoting Slider (Reply 6):
Why doesn’t Obama himself clarify then?

Uh... what do you think he was doing when Wilson called him a liar?

Quoting Slider (Reply 6):
No wonder town hall meetings are angry.

That's typically what happens when bullheaded people rush in without the facts.



Anyway, back to Col. Joe Wilson (Army Colonel, Reserves). This is interesting, from the Uniform Code of Military Justice:

"Article 88: Contempt Toward Officials: Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the... Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.''

http://www.army.mil/references/ucmj/...8.%20CONTEMPT%20TOWARD%20OFFICIALS


Court martial the dude.



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User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2463 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
if Obama is found to have been lying (which is probably the case)

Because Nick, you know everything and OF CORSE he is lying how stupid of us to even doubt you. Heres a suggestion. Take foot. Place in mouth.  sarcastic 

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 8):
Oh, Americans are speaking out! Vast droves of Americans are getting angry and are ready to topple our current socialist government!

Seriously? Socialist? Get a grip....  sarcastic 



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineMirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7444 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2462 times:
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Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 8):


Quoting Slider (Reply 6):
HR 3200 does NOT contain any restrictions on non-citizens, legal or illegal, temp or permanent.

From factcheck.org:

However, the bill does explicitly say that illegal immigrants can’t get any government money to pay for health care. Page 143 states: "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States." And as we’ve said before, current law prohibits illegal immigrants from participating in government health care programs."

So per factcheck.org, Obama is being truthful.

Obama didn't have much choice. He doesn't exactly have the option to get all ghetto on Wilson.

But if Obama did respond accordingly, I would have thoroughly enjoyed it....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hROW4MXNMmM

[Edited 2009-09-10 09:54:05]


Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6860 posts, RR: 34
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2445 times:



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 7):
Except for Sec. 246 which is titled "No Federal Payment for Undocumented Aliens", which specifically prohibits affordability credits for anyone not lawfully present in the United States.

THAT's working real well...


haha...you people believe this shit? Really?


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11422 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2441 times:



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 11):
He doesn't exactly have the option to get all ghetto on Wilson.

But he can have him court martialed!  Smile



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineOlegShv From Sweden, joined Mar 2006, 683 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2437 times:



Quoting Slider (Reply 12):
haha...you people believe this shit? Really?

haha, what shit do you believe in?


User currently offlineSv7887 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1025 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2423 times:



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 4):
I don't care if it was a camera guy or a janitor who said, but a senator? When Bush proposed (well not proposed but actually LIED) to the senate about Saddam's WMD's, no one interrupted him and called him a LIAR. They all gave him the respect he deserves, whether they like him or not. I thought he was completely ignorant and I hope he resigns. Whether you think Obama is a liar or not, it's total not the right place for you to be shouting that out.

Oh really? Maybe you want to look at how the Dems booed George Bush in 2005 when he rightly pointed out the sad state of Social Security. And given the deficits that the system is currently generating he was right on the money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBxmEGG71PM

So once again, Liberals display hypocrisy. So where is the liberal outrage for booing a US President?

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 11):
So per factcheck.org, Obama is being truthful.

You might want to check with the actual non partisan Congressional Research Service that reports to Congress:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...-illegal-immigrants--55021087.html

""Under H.R. 3200, a 'Health Insurance Exchange' would begin operation in 2013 and would offer private plans alongside a public option…H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in the Exchange."

CRS also notes that the bill has no provision for requiring those seeking coverage or services to provided proof of citizenship. So, absent some major amendments to the legislation and a credible, concrete enforcement effort in action, looks like the myth on this issue is the one being spread by Obama, Reid, Pelosi, et. al. "

Recognize isn't some non profit organization, it is an official body of the United States Congress.

All this nonsense about healthcare makes me laugh a little. People don't seem to want to look at Massachusetts, the basis upon which Obamacare was established. The cost of our program has more than tripled and placed this state in a serious budget deficit exceeding $1 Billion. Not to mention we have the highest healthcare premiums in the entire country.

Yep it won't add a dime to the deficit. More fiction from Obama no wonder his poll numbers are tanking.


User currently offlineMBMBOS From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2598 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2406 times:



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 15):
People don't seem to want to look at Massachusetts, the basis upon which Obamacare was established.

And all this time I thought it was brought on because the state allows homosexuals to marry!

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 15):
The cost of our program has more than tripled...

Please cite your source.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 15):
...and placed this state in a serious budget deficit exceeding $1 Billion.

Because of our new health insurance program? Baloney! This state, like the majority of states, would be running a substantial deficit at a time like this. Cite your source.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 15):
Not to mention we have the highest healthcare premiums in the entire country.

Once again, please cite your source.


I live in Massachusetts. My health insurance rates have not risen. My income tax rates have not risen. Some new taxes have been added to certain types of purchases as is, no doubt, happening all over the country. I am proud of our health care plan in Massachusetts and I am glad to know that everyone - not just folks who work for large, blue chip companies - have access to health care. Even if it costs a bit more it's worth it.


User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2400 times:



Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 16):
I live in Massachusetts. My health insurance rates have not risen. My income tax rates have not risen.

As do I. Afaik our insurance rates haven't gone up (I'm still under my parents until I graduate) But I *did* pay more in taxes last year...



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineYellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2388 times:



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 15):
""Under H.R. 3200, a 'Health Insurance Exchange' would begin operation in 2013 and would offer private plans alongside a public option…H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in the Exchange."

So illegal aliens will be able to buy health insurance - so what? If they're paying for it on their own, who cares? It's only if the government sponsors it that it becomes a problem. Where does the bill do that?



Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
User currently offlineSv7887 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1025 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2386 times:



Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 16):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 15):
The cost of our program has more than tripled...

Please cite your source.



Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 16):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 15):
The cost of our program has more than tripled...

Please cite your source.

We''ll start with the cuts in care:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/01/health/policy/01mass.html

Hikes in ER and treatment costs:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...visits_costs_in_mass_climb/?page=1

And yes, the rise in the cost of the program:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/art...sidized_care_plans_cost_to_double/

They say double, but I read another article that said it was getting worse. I'll try and find it. I read a watchdog report on the system and it cited the cost of subsidizing programs for the poor as the chief culprit.

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 16):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 15):
...and placed this state in a serious budget deficit exceeding $1 Billion.

Because of our new health insurance program? Baloney! This state, like the majority of states, would be running a substantial deficit at a time like this. Cite your source.

Have a look here:
http://www.massbudget.org/documentse...findDocument?doc_id=681&dse_id=922

1.7 Billion dollars on the Heathcare reform project. Not exactly trivial. That constitues 50% of our current deficit.

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 16):
I live in Massachusetts. My health insurance rates have not risen. My income tax rates have not risen. Some new taxes have been added to certain types of purchases as is, no doubt, happening all over the country. I am proud of our health care plan in Massachusetts and I am glad to know that everyone - not just folks who work for large, blue chip companies - have access to health care. Even if it costs a bit more it's worth it.

I guess you missed the part about the Sales tax increasing to 6.25%?? The only exemption is Clothes and shoes costing less than $175. That's far more than the "certain types of purchases" you claim. And it's hurting Massachusetts Retailers since tax free New Hampshire is sitting right next to us. Not exactly job friendly.

There have been new taxes on satellite TV and the like as well.

I actually use Commonwealth Choice and my rates have risen every year. In fact since I just turned 27 my premium is set to DOUBLE because the Healthcare reform bill requires I have a much higher level of coverage since I'm past the 18-26 yrs old Young Adult range.

Am I in any worse health? No. The new Blue Choice Bronze plan is marginally better than what I have now (Blue Choice Young Adult) but it costs over $300 compared to the $180 I pay now.


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11422 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2341 times:



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 15):
So where is the liberal outrage for booing a US President?

Same place as the liberal outrage for booing Obama. What's that? You didn't hear anyone complaining about how the Republicans booed Obama last night? Maybe because booing is not that big a deal. Obama got booed, and no one cared. There's a big difference between booing and interrupting and screaming out that someone is a liar.

Quoting Slider (Reply 12):
Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 7):
Except for Sec. 246 which is titled "No Federal Payment for Undocumented Aliens", which specifically prohibits affordability credits for anyone not lawfully present in the United States.

THAT's working real well...

Considering it hasn't been enacted yet... whachutalkinbout, Willis?
Is this just an admission that you were wrong? It's okay to say it.



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User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2335 times:



Quoting D L X (Reply 20):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 15):
So where is the liberal outrage for booing a US President?

Same place as the liberal outrage for booing Obama. What's that? You didn't hear anyone complaining about how the Republicans booed Obama last night? Maybe because booing is not that big a deal. Obama got booed, and no one cared. There's a big difference between booing and interrupting and screaming out that someone is a liar.

Looks like this has been going on for a long time, just no one has called the POTUS a liar before.

http://mediamatters.org/print/research/200502040014


User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5675 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2325 times:

For me, I agree that Rep. Wilson is an:

Quoting Homer71 (Reply 3):
Idiot.

He is an elected official and is paid to discuss things like this in effective ways, not to make a buffoon of himself.

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 2):
How is it "probably the case"?

The key way that the it is "probably the case" is the fact that any validation requirements were removed from the bill earlier. There was an attempt to add a verification process into being able to receive health benefits but it was defeated as being unacceptable to the Latino Caucus. SAVE (the program proposed) is already utilized on approximately 70 other programs.

Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) Program
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/usc...ec0c7c8110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD

Lack of a verification process is effectively a loophole because without verification you can not ensure only those eligible are receiving the benefit and that those that are not eligible for the benefit somehow pay the system back for the services provided.

Quote:
That loophole arises because the bill fails to include eligibility verification screening that would effectively preclude coverage for illegal aliens. As FAIR has consistently pointed out, illegal aliens will be allowed to exploit this loophole in order to obtain taxpayer-funded health insurance benefits. From the American taxpayer's perspective, this is a distinction without a difference.

In essence, the bill creates nothing more than an "honors system" to prevent taxpayer-provided coverage for illegal aliens. The only thing that will prevent an illegal alien from receiving benefits under the House bill is to have the illegal alien decide to forego applying for those benefits. At the Ways & Means Committee markup of the House bill, Rep. Dean Heller (R-NV) tried to include an eligibility verification process, using existing government databases, to screen applicants' eligibility for the public plan and the affordability credit. His amendment was defeated at the committee on a party-line vote.

http://www.fairus.org/site/News2/192...95&security=1601&news_iv_ctrl=1012

Quote:
Asked if CHC leaders will ask Pelosi to specifically spell something out in the bill to address illegal immigrants, the Member said no. Rather, the Member said the CHC simply wants to make sure the bill — as drafted — doesn’t prohibit illegal immigrants from accessing care.

http://www.rollcall.com/news/37180-1.html?type=printer_friendly

I am actually OK with illegal immigrants obtaining healthcare because I understand the need to prevent illness in the greater society and costly emergency room visits, but I think the USA should either charge the people or charge the nation from whence they came (somehow). My big question is: How does Europe and the nations with universal healthcare do it? I would simply suggest we do the same.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11422 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2310 times:



Quoting Tugger (Reply 22):
Lack of a verification process is effectively a loophole because without verification you can not ensure only those eligible are receiving the benefit and that those that are not eligible for the benefit somehow pay the system back for the services provided.

I think that's a reasonable argument with reasonable responses. How is an undocumented worker going to get benefits without an SSN?



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User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6860 posts, RR: 34
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2310 times:



Quoting OlegShv (Reply 14):

haha, what shit do you believe in?

I believe that health care is not a right. I think that for the estimated 30M people without it, that that’s not on the surface a problem since you’ve got people who voluntarily don’t have it or don’t want it. I think that for less than 10% of the US population it’s not worth scrapping the entire existing system. I think that there are tangible real steps to improve the costs involved in health care, reforming some insurance regulations, major tort reform and so forth.

But the shit I believe in is rooted in less regulation, more liberty, and less invasive omnipotent all-invasive government. Their “solutions” are nothing but a gateway to bigger problems, as history has shown.


25 D L X : Utterly barbaric. There is almost nothing you can say about government that you can't also say about insurance companies. Sounds like you need a bett
26 AGM100 : So will you say the same for.... Ted Kennedy , Al Gore , Hillary Clinton , Harry Reid , Jack Murtha , John Kerry , Barney Frank , C Dodd , Feinstien
27 D L X : None of whom interrupted a presidential address to do it. BIG difference, AGM. Of course you do.
28 Dtwclipper : So, I guess you feel the same way about the shoe tosser now as well?
29 AGM100 : There is a differnce I grant you that ... but democrats crying about it is pretty weak. Did you here Biden ?... OMG I thought he was going to lose hi
30 Tugger : If you do not verify the validity of the SSN then it will be no better than current employer check systems. A simple system needs to be put in place
31 Ken777 : Wilson backed down after being booed on national TV during the speech, after hearing respected members of Congress saying he was grossly improper and
32 AGM100 : Pelosi made a phone call to Soros ?? Man thats rich ... we will see who is standing in 2010. Should not have taken long to hear that .... what with a
33 Yellowstone : No, it was raised through ActBlue, from 5600 individual donors - that's an average of $35 per donation.
34 Ken777 : Wilson's opponent has puled in $400,000+ now - after starting with $16,000 in the bank before the speech. Wilson would help the party more if he resig
35 Post contains links AGM100 : He is going to need it . Act Blue ,,,, what is it a Porn sight ... Kidding . Here ya go Dem's send you money in ... http://www.actblue.com/ Just send
36 Dtwclipper : I just love the hypocrisy of the GOP. Hanity had Wilson on and showed the 2005 State of the Union, but somehow forgot to mention how the GOP had booe
37 Dvk : But only because of intense pressure from the Republican leadership, as Wilson himself stated in the interview I saw this evening. His word choice, t
38 Post contains links N104UA : GO ROB MILLER!!!!!! He has raised over $640,000 in just 24 Hours it looks like Joe Wilson will not be a Congressman as of 03 Jan 2011 http://bit.ly/SB
39 Jcs17 : Back to the topic... Okay, what he did wasn't right. Not at all. He should have sat quietly like every GOP member while Obama was giving his speech. H
40 Yellowstone : He only won 54/46 last time - it could be close!
41 Centrair : Down with the Democratic system! Down with listening. Down with education. Down with the teachings of the founding fathers. Down with well researched
42 L-188 : Getting back to the original topic Wilson was just saying what anybody who isn't an Obama cool-aid drinker was thinking. At some point you get fed suc
43 StasisLAX : But what, exactly, was Representative Wilson thinking? The Republicans were doing so well with the townhall meetings and derailing the healthcare deb
44 L-188 : So you know what Joe Wilson was thinking??? Or are you just playing 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon?
45 D L X : So you're admitting that your point was empty, right? Dude, both sides are saying that Wilson was of the reservation. Wholly inappropriate unless you
46 Pellegrine : Thursday evening total at more than $500,000 with 14,000 individual donations. From Thursday morning to Thursday evening donations went from $200k to
47 AGM100 : I denounced it as the action.... but when I heard all the indignation from the leadership it just ammunsed me thats all. Harry Reid .... sounded like
48 Seb146 : How long did Republicans have to change any and all of the immigration rules and they are now (thanks to Wilson) so upset about it? How many times hav
49 Slider : In your opinion. I happen to follow the Constitution. Health care is not in the bill of rights. Self-sufficiency sure is though. I don’t deny that.
50 Tugger : We are talking about people in the US illegally. What do you mean "so are illegal aliens"? One of the biggest impacts illegal aliens have is on the U
51 NIKV69 : You all forget the bill as it written now is useless. It has no chance of passing. You know it and we all know it. Obama has said many things in Nove
52 D L X : Mine and the rest of civilized society. Care to join us? Clearly you don't follow the constitution that closely as it is not an exhaustive list of ri
53 AGM100 : Well said ... and it had allot to do of them being tossed out in the last election. If this is what it takes to bring attention to it then so be it.
54 PSA53 : Well said..part 2.I've said it before.The democrats got caught with they're pants down.The handouts for votes has finally come to the attention of th
55 Post contains links CALTECH : http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/eyeon201...ampaign-money-continues-to-po.html "Miller, a Democrat working on a rematch, has raised more than $750,000 sinc
56 Yellowstone : His margin of victory dropped from an unopposed victory in 2002, to 32 points in 2004, to 25 points in 2006, to 8 points in 2008. The trend is not in
57 Post contains links CALTECH : This falls on many deaf ears after the no-class antics shown by many democrats towards the last President. And oh no, Rep. Joe Wilson has now outrais
58 DocLightning : I hope you remember that the next time you need it. Or one of your kids. Especially if you wind up not getting it. No, it's in the preamble. Under th
59 Post contains links Kalakaua : Haha. Miler got pwned! But to be fair, Rep. Wilson pales in comparison to other foreign counterparts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-Ps7fJm7rk
60 DocLightning : " target=_blank>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-Ps7...Jm7rk Yes, but the British get to do that because they have that adorable accent. We don't.
61 Dreadnought : That's an excuse. "Promoting the general welfare" was defined in the articles which followed, and none of them included health care. If we cared abou
62 Avent : I don't recall conservatives objecting to GWB's 1000 or more Signing Statements in which he made exceptions for himself to laws passed by congress. P
63 CALTECH : And for the record, liberals are now silent, that must be different because a "liberal" is in the White House. Hypocrisy of the highest degree.
64 Post contains links N318EA : http://republicans.energycommerce.ho...ov/news/PRArticle.aspx?NewsID=7325 This link shows the Republican proposed amendments that were voted down. Nat
65 Dreadnought : GWB was a Progressive. What do you think the meaning of neo-conservative/compassionate conservatism was? Not as progressive as Obama, perhaps, but ce
66 Avent : I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. Can you be more specific please?
67 Avent : Well this is too clever by half. Since the Republican party has been represented by GWB and it has been pandering to its extremists, you now want us
68 Dreadnought : A conservative would not have signed TARP, or the massive expansion of medicare, and would have done more to reign in the out-of-control housing prog
69 Avent : Yeah, I get it. When GWB wrecks the economy by waging wars and not raising the taxes to pay for them that makes him progressive; and when he issues m
70 N318EA : If it walks like a duck, and quacks...it is! Obama had the most liberal record in the Senate. You can further define Obama by several of his 30+ Czar
71 Johnboy : It's stories like this that warm the cockles of my heart and open up my wallet. Well that and all the squirming by the usual suspects here.
72 Post contains links Dreadnought : I did not say that. And by the way, did FDR fund WWII by raising taxes? Ever hear about War Bonds? Sorry to burst your bubble about your sainted Obam
73 Windy95 : Yes he was. Neo-Con or Progressive but not a conservative. Exactly
74 D L X : Commerce Clause.
75 Avent : Exactly. Waging discretionary wars and avoiding taxes are hardly traits associated with progressives. No, but the US was configured as a war economy
76 Dreadnought : Which whould apply to deregulating state restrictions on inter-state insurance sales, but not to the actual provision of services or government offer
77 DocLightning : How does one call GWB's view of the government "Limited" when what he wanted to do was eliminate the 4th amendment?
78 Avent : Well, you certainly have a knack for being totally blind to flaws on the Right and dressing it up as analysis. In the context of your claiming progre
79 Seb146 : Silent about what? The the money wasted on a war built on lies or the lies about everyone on the left being socialist or the lies that Obama's health
80 D L X : Hah! No. It applies to almost anything that has an effect on interstate commerce. For instance, Civil Rights was a commerce clause thing. Hey, as lon
81 Dreadnought : He certainly bent the 4th amendment hard, and conservatives gave him a lot of grief for it. Isn't expanding the powers of government the progressive
82 D L X : So you say, but a read of the Supreme Court cases on related issues would show you exactly why Commerce is the best place.
83 DocLightning : Really? Yeah, I heard Rice and Ashcroft and Cheney braying really loudly about it. It just 4, BTW. It was also 1, 5, 6, and 8. I think the Liberals w
84 OlegShv : Sounds good to me. Just make sure you are consistent in what you ask for and believe in. If you want less government, then get rid of police (people
85 Dreadnought : Don't be stupid. There is a difference between wanting limited government and anarchy.
86 D L X : In other words, you like to pick and choose which social programs you will support. Doesn't that make you a hypocrite? If anything, what makes your c
87 Post contains links CALTECH : A bald faced Lie. And Barack Hussein Obama, is continuing on quite splendidly with the war in Afghanistan and Iraq. How many of B.Hussein Obama's nom
88 Dreadnought : Are you saying that the only choice is all or nothing? Communism or Anarchy? I repeat: Don't be stupid.
89 OlegShv : I'm not being stupid. There are private firms that can perform the functions of police. Why not let them do the job - less government involvement and
90 Yellowstone : Bingo. Too many conservatives fail to realize that preventing anarchy is just as much a government service as food stamps or welfare. It just happens
91 D L X : Kind of like how I didn't say any of that? Be careful who you quote... No, of course not. I'm just opening your eyes to the possibility that smaller
92 Pellegrine : Now this silly man says he is done apologizing, fine, I am done listening to this scoundrel. Why is he still talking if he is done apologizing? This i
93 Avent : You are confusing the belief that Saddam had WMDs which justified keeping him in a corner through embargos and UN inspections, with the bootstrapping
94 Dreadnought : And using as illustration some of the very last services that we would want government to stop providing. The job of government is to provide essenti
95 Dtwclipper : Can you point out were in the constitution these items are listed?
96 Windy95 : Just like Obama is doing with healtcare? But he is the chosen one so it is okay.
97 Dreadnought : Roads are specifically mentioned in the Constitution - hence the Interstate highway system and all of its predecessors. Police and fire department ar
98 D L X : But you simply cannot deny that these are social programs and therefore some social programs are okay in your book, and others are not. Regardless, i
99 Dreadnought : No. A social program is, according to a UCLA definition, "an organized set of intervention strategies designed to bring about some prescribed changes
100 D L X : So, not only do you pick and choose what social programs you like, you pick and choose what definitions you like as well? Come on now... If it fits i
101 Avent : Well, he did get elected, so he is the Chosen One by definition. But you seem to equatingGWBs irrational panicked response to 9-11 wrapped in jingois
102 Post contains links StasisLAX : "House Democrats dealt South Carolina Rep. Joe Wilson a formal rebuke Wednesday, taking the rare step of passing a resolution of disapproval for his f
103 Dtwclipper : No, the GOP will look for revenge in any shape it can find. It will never end, just go on and on and on.
104 D L X : Not surprisingly, the GOP leadership does not believe in decorum or civil discussion.
105 DocLightning : That may be the case, but I am very concerned as to how Democrats have behaved in similar situations. The left was very happy when Bush got a shoe th
106 Yellowstone : I think many on the left would argue that, because the shoe thrower personally suffered at the hands of Bush's foreign policy, his behavior is partia
107 D L X : Not everyone. I'm pretty sure most liberals thought that an attack on the president was unacceptable no matter who it was.
108 Seb146 : Yet, when Clinton tried to make strikes against Afganistan, the Republicans decided he had to stand impeachment for lying about Monica. "We have a ma
109 AGM100 : Ya ..he was living like a golden pig while his people starved and lived like rats. Only a lefty could defend Saddam's position under the embargo. Doe
110 Seb146 : Ummmm.... no. Like the bible thumpers on the right guiding the principles of the Republican party, there are a few on the left that want open boarder
111 Post contains links Slider : Just to revisit this issue and confirm my previously held claim that illegals WILL be covered under the Obamacare plan… http://thehill.com/blogs/blo
112 AGM100 : Do I need to go back and list the dems who stood up and spoke of the dangerous Saddam .... Dems who spoke of WMD dangers .... only to cry foul when n
113 Avent : Lefty's like Bush senior, I suppose. And as for Iraq coming into every discussion, it's too bad major wars we started are awkward to talk about and s
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