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9/12 Protests At The Mall  
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8785 posts, RR: 24
Posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4293 times:

White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said yesterday that he was “unaware” of any protests being held on 9/12….hmmmm….hundreds of thousands of people show up just down the street from the WH…and the WH is “unaware”?

Anyone here actually go to Washington?

Here is a time lapse of traffic camera video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sjvc6baor8&feature=player_embedded
















Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
175 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTiger119 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1919 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4286 times:

I wish I was there, i would have been proud.


Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8021 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4273 times:

I still say regardless of the cause, people shouldn't be prostituting their kids for what they believe by having them hold signs they barely understand. Nothing is more stomach turning in American political discourse than the thousands of kids paraded in front of cameras on behalf of their malcontent parental units.


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8785 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4270 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 2):
I still say regardless of the cause, people shouldn't be prostituting their kids for what they believe by having them hold signs they barely understand. Nothing is more stomach turning in American political discourse than the thousands of kids paraded in front of cameras on behalf of their malcontent parental units.

You mean like this?








Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4260 times:

So I'm like 8,000 miles away from all that headache... but... it seems to me, that America is imploding.

Flame away - but at what point do we start asking "what the hell are we even fighting for?" And I am not asking in regards to whether Afghanistan is worth the blood and tears... but whether the US is worth it? Seriously - the US is coming apart at the seems.

[Edited 2009-09-13 06:22:34]

User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8785 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4244 times:



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 4):
So I'm like 8,000 miles away from all that headache... but... it seems to me, that America is imploding.

Flame away - but at what point do we start asking "what the hell are we even fighting for?" And I am not asking in regards to whether Afghanistan is worth the blood and tears... but where the US is worth it? Seriously - the US is coming apart at the seems.

There are plenty of good people here, and a fine foundation in our Constitution and related philosophy - the problem is our politicians (on all sides), and a small number of people who seek to use our system against itself. People are waking up to this, and the millions who stayed at home on voting day are learning what their apathy brings.

You swore an oath to the Constitution, a far greater thing than our transitory politicians. You stay safe, and we thank you for your honorable service.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10875 posts, RR: 37
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4235 times:

Yes this is the first thing I saw this early this morning (my time) on the non MSM news a huge massive demonstration (or is it a tea party) in the streets of Washington DC against the US government.

Seems that people are getting tired of the administration in place. Such a massive demonstration is certainly not a good sign. This is really huge.



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4237 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
There are plenty of good people here, and a fine foundation in our Constitution and related philosophy - the problem is our politicians (on all sides), and a small number of people who seek to use our system against itself. People are waking up to this, and the millions who stayed at home on voting day are learning what their apathy brings.

Politicians have always been viewed, and rightfully so, with a skeptical eye. So I reject the argument that the problem is with only them, and perhaps a few others. The problem is becoming so much larger. The divisions are being drawn on such petty and insignificant lines - and people are completely disinterested in unity, or national consensus.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
You swore an oath to the Constitution, a far greater thing than our transitory politicians.

You need not remind me of my oath, thank you. And yes, I know a thing or two about unity and allegiance to a group greater than one's self... and I'm telling you, it's becoming a rarity back home.


User currently offlineTiger119 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1919 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4228 times:

quote=UH60FtRucker,reply=4]it? Seriously - the US is coming apart at the seems[/quote]

- We are at the Genesis of a slippery slope. Do you think that is might be time for people to start thinking of our future?

David



Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8021 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4224 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
You mean like this?

Same difference. Whether it's Obamaniacs kids', the "God Hates Fags" crowd or these jerks who put signs in their kids' hands today, they're all the same.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 7):
And yes, I know a thing or two about unity and allegiance to a group greater than one's self... and I'm telling you, it's becoming a rarity back home.

Somehow that timely and salient point will be lost in the great effort to prove oneself right about which brand of ideological demagoguery should prevail over the issue at hand, which I'd tend to agree, is a staggering reflection of where we've come in terms of any kind of unity.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4212 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 9):
Somehow that timely and salient point will be lost in the great effort to prove oneself right about which brand of ideological demagoguery should prevail over the issue at hand, which I'd tend to agree, is a staggering reflection of where we've come in terms of any kind of unity.

I promise you that by the completion of this thread, there will be people who will ignore this - and happily launch into venomous political attacks on one another. It's a freakin' game. A battle. And the only objective is to humiliate, and denigrate, the opposing view. It will happen in this thread. Just watch.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10875 posts, RR: 37
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4194 times:

I think those in power should start paying close attention to these people in the town halls and tea parties because they are the ones who are going to vote them out. Taxes, Health care reforms and whatever else. Looks like the people have enough of being played for fools.

These pictures are not photoshopped are they?

http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/...ds/2009/09/dcteaparty0912mkhsm.jpg

http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/...loads/2009/09/dcteaparty091221.jpg

Many of these protesters have lost their jobs and maybe their homes and they feel they don't have much left to lose. Just look at the number of people in the demonstration. This is huge!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VMXz6xGeqc

Is this fake?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhF-T1fFOX0&feature=related

I ownder how many provocateurs there are in the midst of them?

 Yeah sure  Confused



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6568 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4173 times:
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Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 11):
I ownder how many provocateurs there are in the midst of them?

Some say that they are actually insurance companies behind it. But there are no current laws that would allow to find the data to prove it.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13029 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4135 times:

While I am against the policies and attitudes the 9/12 protesters, they peacefully exercised their 1st Amendment rights of free speech. They protested in significant numbers (70,000 +) and apparently there were no arrests or violence.

There is no doubt that a lot of emotions have arisen with the economic crises, the election of the first person of Black African ancestry to be our President, a need to deal with a health care system that is failing too many and a variety of controversial social-political issues. There is no doubt that increasing deficits will mean everybody's taxes will go up, a reality no politician really wants to do. The rich and powerful have too much sway of our government, using campaign contributions to buy politicians of both parties and hurt most Americans.

I also think there is some common ground among all Americans. We want a strong Military, a government that will be able to deal with major crises, we want to end the trade and business policies that kill jobs shipping them out of our country, especially good paying ones. We what a health care system that means no one is denied care as can't afford it or forced to go into bankruptcy to pay for it. Hopefully we will start to use this common ground, end the polarization, and start to move in the best direction in the best spirit of America.


User currently offlineMadameconcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10875 posts, RR: 37
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4101 times:



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 14):
They protested in significant numbers (70,000 +)

There was way more than that marching in Washington DC.
I do not think even 700,000 would make the count.
This was a very massive huge protest. Again not a good sign of what is to come.



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineMax550 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4065 times:

Glad I got out of DC Friday morning. At least this time they can't complain about not getting news coverage.
I'm not really sure what they're protesting though, we just had an election not too long ago, do they want another one?
Also, why is it on 9/12? I remember seeing Glenn Beck talking about the 9/12 project a while ago and I thought it was about security, making sure we continue to torture and stuff like that. These people seemed to have an entirely different agenda though, are the two connected somehow?


User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3990 times:

Nice to see it was a peaceful demonstration and for once actually receieved some press. I think the President dropped the ball on this one. Rather than go to Minnesota and talk yet again about health care he could have put a big PR foot foreward by asking to speak to this crowd and addressing some of their concerns. Yes he would have gotten a lot of boos and catcalls but it would have gone a long long way towards proving he wants to be a uniter instead of the divider he is quickly becoming.

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21504 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3951 times:



Quoting DXing (Reply 16):
I think the President dropped the ball on this one. Rather than go to Minnesota and talk yet again about health care he could have put a big PR foot foreward by asking to speak to this crowd and addressing some of their concerns. Yes he would have gotten a lot of boos and catcalls but it would have gone a long long way towards proving he wants to be a uniter instead of the divider he is quickly becoming.

You can't speak to a group like that - the rational among them who might have been interested in what he had to say would have been overwhelmed by those who didn't care and just wanted to yell at him. It would have been a PR disaster.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3926 times:



Quoting Max550 (Reply 15):
I'm not really sure what they're protesting though, we just had an election not too long ago, do they want another one?

No, we don't want another election, until the next scheduled nation wide election in Nov. 2010. But it will be interesting to watch the Massachusetts election in Jan. 2010 for a replacement US Senator.

They are protesting the $787B stimulus bill that doesn't get spent until next year, the tax and cap bill, and of course the health care bill our grandchildren will have to pay for. They are protesting the massive debt run up in the lats year, by Bush and Obama.

Quoting Max550 (Reply 15):
Also, why is it on 9/12? I remember seeing Glenn Beck talking about the 9/12 project a while ago and I thought it was about security, making sure we continue to torture and stuff like that. These people seemed to have an entirely different agenda though, are the two connected somehow?

No, Beck was trying to get people to go to Washington for the 9/12 protest. He never said he wanted more security and never he wants torture aqnyone. Don't make $hit up.

Quoting DXing (Reply 16):
I think the President dropped the ball on this one. Rather than go to Minnesota and talk yet again about health care he could have put a big PR foot foreward by asking to speak to this crowd and addressing some of their concerns.



Quoting Mir (Reply 17):
It would have been a PR disaster.

No, it would have proven he is willing to listen to the American people, not dictate to them. He has created a PR disaster by going to MN and speaking out against the protest in Washington. Plus, it makes it look like he is running away from opposition.

http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNewsAndPR/idUSN1246707220090912

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aqeAifmKewxc

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090913/...p_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_health_care

Obama is a coward, as well as a lier.


User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6568 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3890 times:
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Yikes!


"In Louisville, Kentucky, two young men in camouflage fatigues roamed the crowd trying to recruit new members for their militia called the Ohio Valley Freedom Fighters. They bear signs reading "AK-47s: today's pitchfork" and "Quit worrying. Start your militia training today."

In Jackson, Michigan, a young man didn't need a sign. He was carrying the real thing: A loaded AK-47 assault rifle and two loaded handguns.

"I don't want a revolution. I don't want a civil war," he said. "But it is a possibility. It's there as an option, as a last resort."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/12/tea.party.express/index.html

I guess its more "American" to walk around with loaded weapons, that to try to go against insurance companies.

[Edited 2009-09-13 13:25:55]


Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11200 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3882 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
hundreds of thousands of people

Uhh... that's quite an exaggeration, bub. Maybe 40,000 people. Hardly close to a major event in DC. (I live here, and my office is in your video. I should know.)

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
You mean like this?

Please point out where Aaron747 condoned using kids to campaign for Obama.

What's that? You don't have any? So, you're calling him a hypocrite with no evidence?

I'm shocked.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 7):
The divisions are being drawn on such petty and insignificant lines - and people are completely disinterested in unity, or national consensus.

Well, upon what other lines of division are people going to divide themselves if not for petty ones? We don't have real honest reasons to divide ourselves, so we have to go petty. I'm being sarcastic of course, but the virulent hatred that SOME Americans are expressing towards each other over political things is disgusting, and is spreading faster than the swine flu. Personally, I blame cable news, who don't have enough to talk about so they sensationalize everything and make literally EVERYTHING into a Dems vs. Republicans thing, and the hundreds of rabble-rousers on talk radio who often times just make stuff up, exploiting their unsuspecting audiences for money.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 10):
I promise you that by the completion of this thread, there will be people who will ignore this - and happily launch into venomous political attacks on one another. It's a freakin' game. A battle. And the only objective is to humiliate, and denigrate, the opposing view. It will happen in this thread. Just watch.

You sir, get it.

Quoting DXing (Reply 16):
Rather than go to Minnesota and talk yet again about health care he could have put a big PR foot foreward by asking to speak to this crowd and addressing some of their concerns. Yes he would have gotten a lot of boos and catcalls but it would have gone a long long way towards proving he wants to be a uniter instead of the divider he is quickly becoming.

WHAT?! Ain't no way you could have reached a crowd like that.

Quoting Mir (Reply 17):
You can't speak to a group like that - the rational among them who might have been interested in what he had to say would have been overwhelmed by those who didn't care and just wanted to yell at him. It would have been a PR disaster.

Could not have said it any better. It is utterly ridiculous to think that this group of people could have been reached. Have you not seen the town hall videos, DXing?

Quoting Madameconcorde (Reply 14):
There was way more than that marching in Washington DC.

No, but sorry, there wasn't.

Think about how ridiculous the idea is that there were 700,000 people there: there are only 600,000 residents in DC. Where would they stay? How would they get around? I DROVE through that area during that time with little delay yesterday. This was not a large demonstration.



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User currently offlineTheredbaron From Mexico, joined Mar 2005, 2189 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3881 times:

What really makes me laugh is that a lot of people that are now really upset about the economy, just rode the Bush Era ilussion of wealth, war and spending like no tomorrow.

The real solution would be to go back to the US constitution and get rid of lobyists and crooked politicians..oh wait that would mean to get rid of the whole government....

From the people to the people.... LOL. what a joke.

BTW every government is the same ...



The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3869 times:



Quoting D L X (Reply 20):
WHAT?! Ain't no way you could have reached a crowd like that.

Sometimes it's the effort that counts even though you know that in the short term you are in a position that will not be well received.


User currently offlineCaliatenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1534 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3862 times:

these people scare me man....why couldnt the protests against Bush been this big. Why all the hate??? Obama hasnt even finished one YEAR in his presidency..its barely been 7 months! Some days im glad im overseas...its sad that im saying that, what is happening to my country??? Militas?? guys with real weapons at town hall meetings??

User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8785 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3864 times:



Quoting Max550 (Reply 15):
I remember seeing Glenn Beck talking about the 9/12 project a while ago and I thought it was about security, making sure we continue to torture and stuff like that.

The 9/12 project is based on 9 Principles and 12 Values - those that Glenn Beck claims are things that Americans need to reclaim:

The Nine Principles:
1. America is good.
2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.
3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.
4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.
5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.
6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.
7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.
8. It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.
9. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me.

(I'm not entirely in agreement with item 2, but that's just me)

The Twelve Values:
1-Honesty
2-Reverence
3-Hope
4-Thrift
5-Humility
6-Charity
7-Sincerity
8-Moderation
9-Hard Work
10-Courage
11-Personal Responsibility
12-Gratitude



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
25 D L X : So, what do the 9 principles and 12 values have to do with health care? I swear, conservative protests are just as ridiculous as liberal ones.
26 Post contains images PSA53 : Come on! Are you trying to tell me that there aren't any trouble makers in those leftist protest marches.How do you think they get on the front page?
27 D L X : All protests have troublemakers these days, but No. You will not see people carrying guns in the left's protests.
28 PSA53 : Coming from you're corner,and I respect that,"not proved" to my knowledge, that weapons were present.But I'm suspect,just the same of a media who wou
29 Dreadnought : Anyone have any news about how many of these protesters got rowdy and got arrested? Any cars burned, lootings, vandalism?
30 D L X : This is whining about the refs. This is the standard response of conservatives when they don't have bad information about liberal groups: the media i
31 Yellowstone : Going by the figures provided by the Washington DC Fire Department - 70,000 protestors - some of the anti-Bush protests were bigger.
32 Mt99 : Im sorry, but as laudable as these "principles" and "values" - the fact that they are offered as some sort "new commandments" that must be followed i
33 PSA53 : I never directly accused,in my statements,of the left having weapons.You did.I merely pointed out there were touble makers on both sides who started
34 Mir : Probably wouldn't, because of: To be fair, with #2 aside, I have no problem with any of the values or principles there, but I do fail to see how supp
35 D L X : Easy. All it takes is for Glenn Beck to say "this is what we believe. This is not what Obama believes. Therefore, we must remove him."
36 D L X : No way, and you know it. You would never have suggested that Bush address Cindy Sheehan or a liberal protest group. And for the exact same reason. Ne
37 DocLightning : Yup. Like that. As soon as it behaves that way, I'll agree. And he has NOTHING to do with America. I don't understand why people don't understand tha
38 DocLightning : Sure you will. I know tons of people who belong to both the ACLU and the NRA.
39 EMBQA : Because so many in the left are trying to take away our rights granted by the Consititution. While those on the right choose to use those rights...[E
40 Ipodguy7 : GOD BLESS AMERICA! and these great Americans that are using their right of free speech even in the face of an overzealous, socialist leader! Wow, I wi
41 UH60FtRucker : 40+ replies, and it has already happened. Don't you guys hear yourselves? There is more to life - more to be being an American - than all this petty
42 Longhornmaniac : How'd you know, UH60? I agree. Speaking as someone who has a pretty sound party affiliation, I think it would do both sides good to just shut up for a
43 N867DA : Frankly I think it's a great time to stop being so political. I wouldn't want to associate with any of these "protesters"--on the left or right.
44 Jpetekyxmd80 : Enacted on January 20th, I suppose.
45 DXing : Actually I thought he should have gone out to the front gate and confronted her. I'd be willing to bet a dime to a dollar she would have melted down.
46 D L X : You can't say you know what would have happened. No president wants to be in a situation that has the possibility of playing out so poorly. There are
47 TUNisia : Where were these people when Bush was spending billions in Iraq?
48 Post contains links and images DXing : That is why I said "I would bet" which intones that although I can't be certain I think the odds are in my favor. You mean like a town hall where no
49 Yellowstone : He addressed a group that he agreed with, and whose members largely supported him. Hardly the case we have with the 9/12 protest.
50 Post contains links BA : "Is This Russia?" one sign said. "Traitors Terrorists Run Our Government," read another. "Don't blame me. I voted for The 'American,' " a third stated
51 DXing : Very true, but that was then and this is now. Supposedly we are operating under a new order that does not follow the "tired old politics" of the past
52 L-188 : Man, that would be a great bumper sticker!!! On Friday I was at my brothers fire house and the chief mentioned that the community hall had been rente
53 Aaron747 : You've got people in the service decrying this kind of garbage in this very thread yet there you go...can you honestly say you're in the right here?
54 Mir : Or, for that matter, the VA. -Mir
55 Post contains links CPH-R : http://imgur.com/Qdg6w.png The image itself is not too bad, the link it provides however...
56 D L X : Bad argument. 1) Rights are not limited to those in the constitution. 2) Rights are not exclusively enumerated in the constitution. 3) Congress can g
57 Clemsonaj : You act like the right doesn't try to take away the rights of those on the left...
58 D L X : Obama has been asked tough questions at the town halls at times. But because they were asked respectfully, without shouting and such, they didn't att
59 Post contains links JakeOrion : You should speak: http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html And to counter the welfare argument: http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#W
60 DXing : That is not "health care". NIH and CDC are research and development agencies. They don't run hospitals like the VA does. If nothing else they are mor
61 Yellowstone : I'm sure DLX understands the difference between "welfare" as used in the Constitution versus the social program called welfare. However, as universal
62 D L X : It is if Congress makes it so, which they may do. I have no idea what your point was in posting that excerpt of the Constitution. Umm, wrong. Health
63 Post contains links JakeOrion : BUT not to the well being of the United States. This plan could easily bankrupt the country within several years time. Many of you complain about the
64 D L X : Check out question 2. Do you believe that the well being of the United States is promoted or demoted by providing health care for X million legal res
65 DocLightning : To everyone who says that, I wish that you never get sick.
66 Avent : Even Hitler could talk about peace... And I have to wonder about the chronic emotional and intellectual insecurity of those who would buy into Beck's
67 Max550 : Not making shit up, I haven't watched the guy for at least a year and from what I can remember he wanted to go back to a 9/12 mindset because otherwi
68 Post contains links Clemsonaj : http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_t6rV3U9ZEH...CXINy7LCyvw/s1600-h/outrageous.jpg This sums it up pretty well I think. People are upset only because Faux news
69 Dreadnought : Just keep telling youself that.
70 Post contains links Clemsonaj : The 9/12 rally was organized and promoted by folks at fox news. See: http://www.the912project.com/ The tea parties were spearheaded/supported/promote
71 Dreadnought : They gave some publicity, but Fox News and Glenn Beck did not bus people in. They did not organize or pay for where the people would stay, for toilet
72 Avent : Those naughty leftists. Tsk. Tsk. What will they do next? Will they accuse Beck of calling the President a racist? How unfair would that be!
73 Max550 : That's where the problem lies. A news organization does not exist to advertise for different causes, they are supposed to report the news.
74 Slider : I disagree. I think it’s a GREAT sign of much better things to come! Perhaps not easier times ahead, but it’s exciting to see citizens getting in
75 Dtwclipper : Carter was a lot of things, he even lusted after women in his heart, but he was not a liar. Sure if you are a straight Evangelical christian with hea
76 Mir : Can we not bring Hitler into this? It's bad enough that some on the right feel the need to associate Obama with Hitler - there's no need for the left
77 Dreadnought : I'll remind you the next time Obama gets an hour or two of free, unchallenged airtime on ABC or some other network. Who are you to tell them what to
78 Avent : . A colleague of mine - semi-retired - was a kid in Austria during WWII and witnessed fascism first hand. He does not hesitate to characterize GWB and
79 Dreadnought : Call him up and ask him to list the similarities. I'd be interested. BTW, you say semi-retired - which would suggest an age of around 60 or so. Given
80 PSA727 : I went to this event. And I would say that the crowd was closer to 100,000 in attendance. But what people aren't realizing is that this a culmination
81 Avent : No need - I already gave a list a similarities that we discussed. He's in his early 70s I believe and barely avoided being drafted.
82 Dreadnought : Check your math. If he barely avoided being drafted, I would guess he would have been 14 or 15 in 1945. All older boys went to the Volksturm. That wo
83 Avent : If it does not compute for you, perhaps you might need to consider more deeply the implications of someone who was immersed in the Nazi culture asser
84 AGM100 : Sorry UH , but tripling the national debt in a few months is not petty. Trying to institute government single payer health-care is not petty , cap an
85 Dreadnought : If you can point to me some examples of Bush trying to supress anyone's constitutionally protected freedoms, Songs in praise of the president, using
86 Yellowstone : Easy. The Bush administration claimed that foreign combatants were not subject to habeas corpus. Under such logic, the administration could have arre
87 Post contains links and images D L X : Easier: warrantless wiretaps. The fourth amendment didn't mean bupkis to Bush. BTW, where were the people to tell these people that they were out of
88 Post contains images Dreadnought : As well he shouldn't. Did we give Nazi POWs that right? No. Not if I were an American, or arrested in the US. Constitutional protections apply in tho
89 Post contains links PPVRA : The thing with preambles is that they aren't really supposed to be legally valid. They are just an introduction. Wiki has a little about it: http://e
90 D L X : I agree. I was there, and there were not a whole mess of these things (unlike the last time!). But what seriously bothers me is that if there were a
91 Dreadnought : Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly have spoken against it, as being counterproductive and damages the movement's credibility.
92 Yellowstone : How exactly are you supposed to prove you are an American if you are denied habeas corpus rights? In order to prove you can access the courts, you'd
93 Dreadnought : There have been numerous US citizens captured fighting for the bad guys in the past 8 years. None of them had any trouble, and were quickly transfere
94 Maverick623 : I suggest you read up on the story of John Walker Lindh.
95 UH60FtRucker : You are completely missing the mark, here. I am not saying that issues are unimportant, or frivolous... I am saying that it is the BEHAVIOR, which is
96 Post contains links Aaron747 : I suspect answers will be more of the same rather than poignant forthcomings, but I hope I'm very mistaken. There's plenty of time to talk about how
97 AGM100 : UH , I don't think we are talking about hatred ...anger , yes ..but I not sure hatred like Taliban style is in play . Now Van Jones ,Rev Wright , Pro
98 Dreadnought : The first case, not well executed but which helped establish later policy concerning captured Americans. He was still placed in civilian justice cust
99 DocLightning : Sorry, dude. I had too many Bibles thrown at me to believe that crap. The true, vitriolic hatred that scares me doesn't come from anyone on the polit
100 Max550 : I don't really care which side it is, they should be reporting rather than pushing an agenda. That being said, I don't think that showing the Preside
101 Dreadnought : As I've said before, I'm hardly a religious person. Haven't stepped in a church in a few years now. But I think you should have a look at something t
102 Dreadnought : I heard a pretty liberal law professor talk the other day about airing presidential speeches before congress. Apparently, in the old days, members of
103 AGM100 : Doc , the 912 protesters from what I saw were not bible thumpers ... they were Fiscons not Socons . The conservatives are going to have bend on some
104 Avent : Which of course assumes one can correctly discern its intent (if there is one) - I bet the Muslim interpretation and yours are quite different for ex
105 Post contains links Max550 : I know there was one of the mall showing how many people were there, not sure it's the same one, but at least one of the ones out there is fake. http
106 Dreadnought : I had not seen that photo. Apparently it was used on a few blogs. All it takes is one asshole to plant it and others will unkowingly run with it. But
107 DocLightning : "We hold these truths to be self-evident..." The problem is that the higher authority is man-made. And that higher authority keeps having man-made fl
108 Max550 : I have no doubt there were a lot of people there, I have friends down there who told me as much. The pictures showing the whole mall being filled is
109 D l x : Do you have a link to a source? It's good if Beck and OReilly denounce that but I also want to see it from fellow protester if I'm going to believe t
110 Dreadnought : Try watching their show
111 TheCol : I don't cry a hell of a lot. In fact, I can count on my fingers the amount of times I remember being brought to tears in my entire life. However, not
112 Max550 : I kind of doubt that, since the second of the 9 principles they are pushing for is:
113 Dreadnought : You don't have to buy into all of them. The 9/12 project is not some cult or something where you have to believe the whole thing or you aren't welcom
114 AGM100 : Yes some care ... but I know how you feel everything we do seems so slackass in comparison. And I am as guilty as anyone of muddeling in the BS all t
115 D L X : Right. Finding the one nugget of legit in their mound of horseshit is not worth my time. If you can narrow it a little, that would be appreciated.
116 DocLightning : If it only it was the straighforward protection from evil that it was in WWII. Unfortunately, now it seems more like "deadly errands." They lost me a
117 Dreadnought : It's not supposed to. Think about it. We aren't talking about theocracy here.
118 TheCol : Dropping the partisan bullshit is a start. You missed my point entirely.
119 Max550 : I thought about this overnight and while I'm not totally opposed to it I think it sounds too much like the fairness doctrine to me. If you're going t
120 AGM100 : How ? When we disagree with basic policy how is that done. Like with the war , I didn't see any democrats dropping the partisan BS. Even when the opp
121 DocLightning : Then get the religious hoo-ha out of the 12 points. Completely. Without a trace. Your religion and sexual orientation stays in your church and bedroo
122 DXing : Then the democratic party has some answering to do since the booed President Bush on more than one occasion during State of the Union speeches. Misse
123 Dtwclipper : ....and the GOP booed Clinton. Where does it end?
124 DocLightning : Simple: THEY ARE TELLING ME WHAT I CAN AND CANNOT DO. I am NOT telling them what they can and cannot do, except that they cannot tell me what I can a
125 Seb146 : I just thought of something reading this: Supposedly, Clinton was impeached in retaliation for Nixon being impeached. Could it be that all the partis
126 Avent : I think the bickering and partisanship has many causes: 1. Issues are overheated because of partisan broadcasting by talking heads 2. TV stations hav
127 AGM100 : Doc , Negative sorry but you know that is not the way we do it . He did not run on Universal Health Care ... single payer health care ... it was not
128 DXing : Why does it have to end? I'd much rather they show their displeasure by booing or yelling out than they did in the old days when they would duel or b
129 Post contains links Max550 : May I ask what the major issues were? Here's an article from 2007 shortly after he announced he was running where he specifically states that by the
130 AGM100 : Ah yes , I was aware of the agenda and that is why I did not vote for him. Something that was not considered by those who voted for him was the oppos
131 DocLightning : Nope, they didn't. They were already beat down and so they had nothing to lose from it. This is different. I was "endowed by my creator with certain
132 Dreadnought : And if you read their private writings, it's pretty clear their idea was a monotheistic sort of God. They were being politically correct by not being
133 DocLightning : It is very clear from the Founders and what they wrote that this is what they intended. We can have a quoting war all you want, but I assure you, I h
134 Dreadnought : Maybe you need to re-read some stuff. Deists (as the name would give you a big hint at) is monotheistic. Deists believe in a God that created the uni
135 DocLightning : It is a negative belief. There is no satisfactory evidence for a god. Thus, I have no reason to believe that one exists. Agnosticism is "there might
136 DXing : When you post with that kind of summary, your argument, and ones thereafter go out the window where credibility is concerned. As stated, they certain
137 Post contains links PPVRA : Here's why that argument doesn't work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_proof
138 Avent : Nonsense. If this was true, then not believing in fairies is a religion. It always amazes me how religious people crave bringing atheism under their
139 Dreadnought : I'm not a religious person (lapsed, in any case)
140 Seb146 : The church I was raised in taught that even if you miss regular services, but still follow the teachings of Jesus, that is what is important. A big,
141 DocLightning : Right, because 1) that's smart for the Church because it makes them more money and keeps the congregation larger. 2) People of good breeding generall
142 Avent : I agree, when they're that needy, their behaviour takes on religious overtones.
143 Seb146 : I don't believe Jefferson wanted religion to guide rights and laws, either. More like "here is a very good blueprint we can build a base for, but kee
144 DocLightning : There is no book that explains my reasoning. It's constantly changing as I digest new information. That is how an active mind works. Religion express
145 DXing : At least I'm not advocating beating or shooting anyone. You have yet to show whom they were talking about if not the Judeo-Christian God. Good luck.[
146 DocLightning : Apparently, you've never been gay, or a Jew. We're quite used to being on one end of that treatment. I'm not about to let it happen to me.
147 PHLBOS : Although I was tempted to jump in the conversation earlier but held back; the above-quote IMHO can not go without a rebuttal... especially since one
148 Seb146 : I can speak only for the Senate race in Oregon. Jeff Merkley (D) versus incumbant Gordon Smith (R). Smith lost. He had been a legislator for a long t
149 DXing : Nope, never have but I was in the military in the middle to late 70's and took a bunch of grief in airports and such for that. Still, anytime you adv
150 KC135TopBoom : It is not just the Mormons. You can add Catholics, Baptists, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, etc too. But didn't your own Hippocratic Oath pray to Apollo,
151 Post contains links Seb146 : Was 1994 the year of the "Contract with America?" How'd that work out? According to Edward Crane of the Cato Institute "the combined budgets of the 9
152 DXing : Doesn't make any differnce. The upheaval was driven much more by the abuses that Congress had perpetraed that had come to light over the past years a
153 Mir : Being politically correct, or being politically savvy by recognizing that putting their own personal religious beliefs into the documents used to fou
154 Seb146 : But, it does. Gingrich played on the sympathies of those "on the fence" and made sure he let them know the Republicans were thinking about going back
155 DocLightning : The original one did, which is very curious, because many historians feel that it seems not to be the work of Hippocrates at all. After all, Hippocra
156 Dreadnought : They did not want to be specific, but they did feel that religion was vital to the survival of the country. As George Washington said in his farewell
157 Post contains links KC135TopBoom : I believe you are talking about the defeated California Amendment to make gay marrage legal there. There were a lot of different religious people, fr
158 Mir : I don't think they were wrong in that - people do function better when they have a set of beliefs and values that they can hold to. But to make the c
159 DocLightning : That is debatable. What is VERY clear, however, is that they felt that religion had no place in any governmental apparatus or deciding governmental p
160 Dreadnought : It is NOT debatable. Read it again: In other words, in George Washington's opinion, religion is an indispensable component to morality, without which
161 DocLightning : I'm terribly sorry, but let's analyze these for a moment. First of all, George Washington was a devout Christian. He believed that religion, although
162 Avent : By this reasoning we can now say the Soviet and Chinese communist empires enjoy(ed) divine support. Or we could invest a little more intellectual ene
163 Post contains links AGM100 : http://islamoncapitolhill.com/Home_Page.html This should be interesting. I must admit it is hard for me ... It is very hard for me to put away my bias
164 D L X : Wait, so Dreadnought and KC135TopBoom are trying to tell us that a bunch of Masons wanted a Christian nation? interesting...
165 Post contains images Dreadnought : They made it absolutely clear. They also refused to mandate it - hoping that the American people would want it on their own. They did not want to rep
166 DocLightning : I wonder how many 9/12 protesters would advocate doing that. Civil rights is the most important thing our country has. If we do not respect all of ou
167 Confuscius : Wow! a different version of A Million Man March.
168 D L X : Yup. One with considerably fewer than a million men.
169 AGM100 : I have read some of it , I own a copy of it. Like the bible I read it out of interest , not so much for life guidance. The Q'ran contains beautiful w
170 DocLightning : When I had my Bar Mitzvah, my Torah portion was Leviticus 22:3-13, called "Bechucotai." It started "If you follow my laws and faithfully observe my c
171 AGM100 : The Bible and Q'ran are simply a embodiment of human kind and our complex emotions . The same man who can hug his child in love can also strike a ene
172 DocLightning : I agree. And so did the Founders, which is precisely why they were very careful to keep religion out of the government. We are not a secular nation,
173 Confuscius : A Million Men March Light...literally and figuratively.
174 Dreadnought : As was the original.
175 Avent : There were only about 70,000 at the FOX News/Beck 9/12 event.
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