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I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"  
User currently offlineKLM672 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 2460 posts, RR: 3
Posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4608 times:

Two weeks ago I got an offer for a new job. Much better than the old one in every way (commute, pay, hours etc). I gave my two-weeks notice and was scheduled to start tomorrow. Friday afternoon (3 days before I was scheduled to start) I got a call with some bad news. The new job was put on "staffing hold" and I was unable to start on Monday. They said they'd call me next week with more details and they are "looking into more/other options" but said they were very very sorry. Ah great! My last day is today and now I'm without a job. What should I do? Just wait it out? I started applying to other places just in case and a few people suggested telling my old job about the news but I feel that's pretty unprofessional "Hey, I can't work Monday after all, can I stick around here until I get the job for real?". I already have a replacement here too. What about unemployment in the meantime? Would I qualify or because I technically quit my old job (with intentions of moving into a new one) I wouldn't?

Suggestions?

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3602 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4560 times:

If at all possible find something else, whatever you do don't accept the new job, even if they come back to you. If they screw you about like this before you start, it can only get worse. Its totally unprofessional to offer someone a job in the full knowledge that they will be resigning from their present one, and then drop them in the crap.

User currently offlineKLM672 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 2460 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4555 times:

Should I even bother telling my old job or leave it as is? I have already been replaced by a rehire so they do not need retraining etc.

User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4552 times:

You might find talking to an employment lawyer useful. Was a possible wait part of your interview negotiations? I presume the new post was confirmed before you resigned your old one.

You are currently losing money and your new company should be paying for that, unless you resigned prematurely.


User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3011 posts, RR: 47
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4550 times:
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Wait, did you already sign a contract with the new employer? If yes, can't you "force" them to hire you, or at least pay you until you find something else?


Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
User currently offlineKLM672 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 2460 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4550 times:

Hi, they asked if I can start Monday 8/21. I said yes and gave my two weeks. A week or so went by and then said "oh wait" on Friday around noon. I have no paper record of them offereing me the job BUT I do have the voicemail saying they are on hold and her said "Sorry you can't start on Monday" (if that wording matters). I may also have the voicemail saying that I have the job but I have to check--it was on my house phone and I was away at school for the week and my mom gave me the message.

User currently offlineKLM672 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 2460 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4547 times:

Oh, is there any bias that the fact that my new job is a Gov't job. Temp at that.. kinda like the people I'd seek out for help would work for the Gov't as well? I know it shouldn't matter but life isnt fair.. thoughts?

User currently onlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2827 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4543 times:

I would start looking straight away for something else. Obviously your almost-to-be employers are not reliable. I don't know what is happening in their company so it's difficult to judge the situation, but it can be 50/50: they can tell you to come in like they can tell you to forget about the job.

Since they are not able to confirm anything at the moment (and God knows when they do it), it would be safer to look for another job.



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3011 posts, RR: 47
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4530 times:
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HEAD MODERATOR

If you don't have anything on paper that they're offering you the job, I don't know if there's anything you can do. In Switzerland a job contract is also valid in the verbal form (eg. if I tell you "You're hired starting September 21st and you'll get $1500/month"), but I don't know about the US. I guess you'll need a lawyer to chime in - or look for something else.


Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8455 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4530 times:
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Quoting KLM672 (Reply 5):
I have no paper record of them offereing me the job

Who in their right mind resigns from their job without a new job offer/contract on paper? Sorry but this is just irresponsible, even in a good job market.



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineCpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 38
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4513 times:



Quoting KLM672 (Reply 5):
I have no paper record of them offereing me the job BUT I do have the voicemail saying they are on hold and her said "Sorry you can't start on Monday" (if that wording matters). I may also have the voicemail saying that I have the job but I have to check--it was on my house phone and I was away at school for the week and my mom gave me the message.

You've learnt a really valuable lesson. Until you get a formal letter of offer, and have formally accepted the position, and they've formally agreed - you don't leave your old job.

I would be finding another job elsewhere, the new employer seems very unreliable if they do that. I also think you'll find it really difficult to make a case against your new employer either.

Quoting KLM672 (Reply 6):
Oh, is there any bias that the fact that my new job is a Gov't job. Temp at that.. kinda like the people I'd seek out for help would work for the Gov't as well? I know it shouldn't matter but life isnt fair.. thoughts?

No, there shouldn't be any bias in an ideal world, but things don't work like that. My guess is they just got a budget cut, and no longer have funds to pay for your position - or something like that.


User currently offlineKLM672 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 2460 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4499 times:

How common is a letter in America? I have held a bunch of jobs and never was given a letter. I just asked my aunt and uncle and they both have never either. Its always been verbal (face to face or phone).

I spoke to HR on the phone and it went like this:
Hey, can you come in on Monday 8/21 at 9am for orentation? Me: "Sure" Her: "Ok great, expect to stay until 5pm, bring a lunch if you'd like. We'll do orentation and then some training. Your normal schedule would then be 6am-2:30pm" "Me: great thanks!" Her: "Congrats! Have a good day see you Monday 8/21."

[Edited 2009-09-20 07:32:20]

User currently offlineUSFlyer MSP From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4487 times:



Quoting Andz (Reply 9):
Who in their right mind resigns from their job without a new job offer/contract on paper? Sorry but this is just irresponsible, even in a good job market.

Thats not how things work in the US. Very rarely does an employee get anything in writing before the first day of work at the new job.

I would start looking for something elese or go to a temp agency to tide me over until the new job starts.


User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4484 times:



Quoting ManuCH (Reply 8):
If you don't have anything on paper that they're offering you the job, I don't know if there's anything you can do.

Contracts can be verbal or written. It's just easier to prove a written contract existed. In Europe we would never/rarely act on a verbal contract especially if income was a stake.

If they asked you to resign to take up the job then they should be compensating you for the wait.

I was in a position like you once but I admit I was too keen to dump my previous job.


User currently offlineKLM672 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 2460 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4484 times:

Quoting MSP" class=quote target=_blank>USFlyer MSP (Reply 12):
Quoting Andz (Reply 9):
Who in their right mind resigns from their job without a new job offer/contract on paper? Sorry but this is just irresponsible, even in a good job market.

Thats not how things work in the US. Very rarely does an employee get anything in writing before the first day of work at the new job.

I would start looking for something elese or go to a temp agency to tide me over until the new job starts.



Quoting Cpd (Reply 10):
Quoting KLM672 (Reply 5):
I have no paper record of them offereing me the job BUT I do have the voicemail saying they are on hold and her said "Sorry you can't start on Monday" (if that wording matters). I may also have the voicemail saying that I have the job but I have to check--it was on my house phone and I was away at school for the week and my mom gave me the message.

You've learnt a really valuable lesson. Until you get a formal letter of offer, and have formally accepted the position, and they've formally agreed - you don't leave your old job.

I would be finding another job elsewhere, the new employer seems very unreliable if they do that. I also think you'll find it really difficult to make a case against your new employer either.

Thanks, guess things are different here in America. Thanks for clearing that up MSP.



I am thinking about telling my old employer but they already have a replacement so whats the sense. I just don't want to go back and fourth "sure I can work XX day..." Two days later "Wait no I can't I am starting at the new job for real"

[Edited 2009-09-20 07:41:48]

User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4459 times:



Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 12):

Thats not how things work in the US. Very rarely does an employee get anything in writing before the first day of work at the new job.

Not necessarily true. At the previous employer...they offered me the job on the phone, and explicitly said the letter of offer was in the mail. Keep in mind this was a small corporation in terms of what else is out there (several thousand employees). Not sure this helps the OP much, but getting a job offer on paper is fairly common.


User currently offlineKLM672 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 2460 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4450 times:

Being young, maybe its the wrong type of jobs, just causal ones where there are no letters. Gotten a few after interviews with the "sorry not interested" subject. I've worked for two airlines (as a CSA and F/A) and didn't receive any letter of hire.

User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2134 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4405 times:

The OP says his new job is a "Govt." job though he does not mention whether it is at federal, state or local level.

I think it is very odd indeed that a government job did not provide him with an offer of employment on paper.

My advice to the OP is to visit the new office in question in person on Monday and see if you can get answers on whether the staffing hold issue is expected to be resolved within a few days or whether there is no chance of a resolution. While you are there, also make sure you ask them (the HR people of the new job) about your eligibility for state unemployment benefits in your circumstances. Normally, unemployment benefits are provided only in case of involuntary loss of employment.



The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offlineKLM672 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 2460 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4394 times:

Good idea, WestWing. The HR lady said she'd call sometime this week with info but I can just go visit or visit them in person.

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21654 posts, RR: 55
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4394 times:



Quoting WestWing (Reply 17):
Normally, unemployment benefits are provided only in case of involuntary loss of employment.

Which his situation could well qualify as.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8455 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4391 times:
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I appreciate that things are not the same world wide but I would not consider leaving one job without something in writing from another employer. It may not be common but surely the entire job market in the US doesn't hinge on word of mouth.


After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineSunshine79 From UK - England, joined Jan 2006, 1759 posts, RR: 30
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4385 times:



Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 1):
If at all possible find something else, whatever you do don't accept the new job, even if they come back to you. If they screw you about like this before you start, it can only get worse. Its totally unprofessional to offer someone a job in the full knowledge that they will be resigning from their present one, and then drop them in the crap.

The same thing happened to me. In January, I was supposed to go to TFS to work but wanted the stay in the UK (what the hell was I thinking?) So I had an interview for an energy company to work in their call centre. Anyway, I find out on the day I was supposed to go to TFS that I was successful and got the job however, the job was now starting in March and not the following Monday. So on that, I buy myself a little car to run around in, and sort myself out with a flat to rent, furnish it etc. Three days after I sign the flat contract, the agency ring me to advise me that they are holding recruitment and will not be taking anyone else on in the near future. I was not a happy bunny after that. So I had to take any job that came along.

Since March, I am just about to start my 4th job, all temporary with agencies and the assignments have suddenly finished so I'm then straight back onto signing onto Employment Benefit the next day. If I knew this was going to happen (or if the agency hadn't landed me in it in February) I would be still be in a job I love, not in the UK, and enjoying Greek life (I will be next year though)

My advise is do not go to the company who dropped you in it, go to another company. If they are messing you around like this now, what will they be like once you start.



Formerly alcregular, Why drive when you can fly?
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19786 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4370 times:



Quoting Cpd (Reply 10):

You've learnt a really valuable lesson. Until you get a formal letter of offer, and have formally accepted the position, and they've formally agreed - you don't leave your old job.

 thumbsup 

You don't need a signed contract, but a letter of offer is sufficient. You need something in writing or it's... nothing.

I just switched jobs, myself and I handed my resignation in the day I signed and returned the letter of offer.

Of course, I've had to put the new job on hold thanks to my recent injury, but they have been very understanding about it, which is encouraging, since I would expect any job to be accommodating of "I broke myself and need surgery and to stay in bed for 6 weeks."


User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2134 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4337 times:

Given that the new employer is a government entity, I would hope that would be much easier for the OP to get documentary proof in writing that an offer was made by the new entity and then he was informed just one business day before he was supposed to join them that hiring was frozen.

I agree with Mir that the OP's situation does indeed appear to be involuntary loss of employment. But the HR people at the new job ought to know the intricacies of this better than we do.

Several posters above have suggested that the OP should now not join the new entity under any circumstances because (to paraphrase them) the new entity "jerked him around" and therefore, they (the new entity) are untrustworthy.

To the OP, I think you need to find out exactly what happened before making a decision in this regard. What you have experienced, though undoubtedly anxiety and anger promoting, is not that unusual in the USA. Fecal matter happens (albeit ungrammatically).

One small suggestion. When you visit the HR dept of the new entity, make sure you dress for success. A jacket and tie if you have them. Look as professional as you can when you walk into their office.



The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1292 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4301 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):
You don't need a signed contract, but a letter of offer is sufficient. You need something in writing or it's... nothing.

No, no, no. I don't know of many states that have a Statute of Frauds for employment contracts, at least not short ones, and the OP mentioned this was a temp one. The issue here is probably not a legal one, but rather an evidentiary one.

Quoting Andz (Reply 20):
I appreciate that things are not the same world wide but I would not consider leaving one job without something in writing from another employer. It may not be common but surely the entire job market in the US doesn't hinge on word of mouth.

It doesn't. Generally, the higher-paying, more "professional"-sounding a job is, the more likely it will have a written contract. Larger companies are also more likely to have written contracts, as they'll generally have counsel that advises them to do so. Part of the reason for this is to avoid the exact situation we have here.

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 8):
I guess you'll need a lawyer to chime in - or look for something else.

It's not a bad idea to consult a lawyer here, but not a great one either. Really, this all depends on Vermont law (assuming the accuracy of the OP's profile). I don't know jack about Vermont employment or contract law, but under basic contract law, once you can prove offer and acceptance, you're usually pretty good. I'm not going to teach an Evidence course about why that's very hard here. On top of that, the prospective damages here probably aren't worth what a lawyer on an hourly fee basis would charge, nor is one likely to take it on contingency. This is just one of the failings of the American legal system.

Edited to fix small but important typo.

[Edited 2009-09-20 12:56:59]

25 Babybus : All companies want you to sign a contract. They will want you to know what your responsibilities will be in post.
26 IADCA : I'm talking in the US, where my legal education and most of my work experience is. I haven't the slightest clue about over here, as I just don't have
27 Lincoln : Of the three jobs I've had I got a written offer only for my most recent one -- and only because I asked for one so I could have something to read on
28 IADCA : Right, so be very careful with statements like: This is especially true in this situation, where you'd essentially need the same piece of evidence to
29 FlyDeltaJets87 : HAH. You might as well be waiting for hell to freeze over if you're waiting on a government employee to call you back. If you're dealing with the gov
30 Sv7887 : Every job I've had here has been accompanied by a letter stating the terms. In some cases, an employment contract was required too. Even a letter doe
31 Phatfarmlines : The thread starter is in a very sticky situation here. I'm hoping those bridges weren't torched down.......... College-level salaried positions in the
32 KLM672 : Hey, Thanks for all the replies. I did not hear from this place in over a week and I called the lady. She was surprised to hear from me and said that
33 GrahamHill : Very good! I hope you'll get the job!
34 GQfluffy : In that case I would've told her (since it was supposedly a government job) that you were in contact with OPM and you want further explanation on why
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