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Breakthrough In HIV Vaccine  
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1664 times:

Combo vaccine reduces risk of HIV infection, researchers say

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/24/hiv.vaccine/index.html


While it looks promising, it still is in the early stages, and of course does not help the millions of HIV+ people nor the 2 million who still die every year from it.

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11658 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1618 times:



Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
While it looks promising, it still is in the early stages, and of course does not help the millions of HIV+ people nor the 2 million who still die every year from it.

Even from that, they could make a vaccine or some kind of medication for people already infected, so this is a huge step. This shows we are getting closer to a cure for this, too.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1604 times:



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 1):
some kind of medication for people already infected,

We have that already, the triple cocktail combinations hold off the replication of the virus and keeps it in a non-detectable level in the blood. However, HIV is a nasty bug and hides in the lymphatic system and other little spots.


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8153 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1604 times:

This is a mixed blessing - HIV is one of the few disease scourges that has been statistically shown to drive down population growth numbers in many developing nations. If the vaccine release, once its mature, can be correlated to government-mandated contraception in many such societies, then it will be a different story entirely.


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3011 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1601 times:
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That's interesting. But something makes me think:

Quote:
Fifty-one people in the vaccine group eventually contracted HIV, compared with 74 in the placebo group.

Does this actually mean that 16000 people took the trial vaccine (or the placebo), but were so poorly informed about HIV that they managed to get infected anyway? 125 people out of a sample of 16000 is a lot!



Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
User currently offlineN104UA From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 914 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1592 times:

I was really happy when I read this this morning, HIV/AIDS is one of those viruses that many people in many countries are not too worried about. I am glad this happened but surprised that it happened in Thailand and not the USA or Europe.

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 4):
Quote:
Fifty-one people in the vaccine group eventually contracted HIV, compared with 74 in the placebo group.

Does this actually mean that 16000 people took the trial vaccine (or the placebo), but were so poorly informed about HIV that they managed to get infected anyway? 125 people out of a sample of 16000 is a lot!

It was 16,000 total in the trial with a little over 8,000 getting the placebo and a little less than 8,000 getting the vaccine

The Huffington Post has a better article on it
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0...-vaccine-helps-preve_n_298250.html



"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19724 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1577 times:



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):

We have that already, the triple cocktail combinations hold off the replication of the virus and keeps it in a non-detectable level in the blood. However, HIV is a nasty bug and hides in the lymphatic system and other little spots.

The problem with this is compliance. If people lose their insurance and can't afford these drugs, then they develop resistance. And a multi-resistant bug is a horrible thing to manage.

This is a major breakthrough, since this is the first HIV vaccine that has shown ANY effectiveness at all. However, it appears to be only a 30% reduction in risk. I'm concerned that, in its current state, such a vaccine could INCREASE infection rates by giving people a false sense of security and discouraging condom use.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1574 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
This is a major breakthrough,

Agreed, but what does this do for those already HIV+?

Is a vaccine the road to "curing" those already infected?


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19724 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1566 times:



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 7):

Agreed, but what does this do for those already HIV+?

Is a vaccine the road to "curing" those already infected?

If it teaches us something about the way the immune system can be trained to handle the virus, then yes. Perhaps it won't directly help, but it can help.

Also, suppose that tomorrow, a 99% effective vaccine became available. It might not help those who are currently living with the disease, but it will prevent anyone new from contracting the illness. In 30 years, HIV could be eradicated from the world. What a wonderful thing that would be.


User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1544 times:



Quoting N104UA (Reply 5):
I am glad this happened but surprised that it happened in Thailand and not the USA or Europe.

Don't be. Thailand has an HIV problem and they are doing what they can to fight on all fronts. In the US and the EU the drug companies make a nice buck from ARVs so the status quo (treatment over prevention) is accepted.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3011 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1519 times:
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Quoting N104UA (Reply 5):
It was 16,000 total in the trial with a little over 8,000 getting the placebo and a little less than 8,000 getting the vaccine

Yes, I've read that. But my question remains: 16,000 took part in the trial, and 125 got infected. That's too many people to get infected, especially because they took part in the trial! They're supposed to be people who know what HIV is about (I think those who administered the vaccine/placebo explained it first!), and still they took such a risky behavior in their lives that 125 of them got the virus.

My complaint isn't about the trial itself, but the fact that too many people still get HIV even though they are informed about the risk factors.



Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19724 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1509 times:



Quoting YOWza (Reply 9):

Don't be. Thailand has an HIV problem and they are doing what they can to fight on all fronts. In the US and the EU the drug companies make a nice buck from ARVs so the status quo (treatment over prevention) is accepted.

It's also a coup for Thailand. The U.S. has touted its superior medical sciences forever. We still spend more public money for R&D grants than any other country in the world, per capita. Thailand is not known for its major contributions to modern medicine, but this is a huge, huge feather in Thailand's cap.

BTW, the drug companies don't make nearly the money from ARV's that they do from, say, VIAGRA or from even cholesterol or BP drugs. They actually do the ARV's because they're drug companies and, although they like to make money, they are also interested in helping patients in the process. The actual number of HIV people in the U.S. is quite low, by the standards of an infectious disease. Even in a place like San Francisco, the prevalence is shockingly low. It's not like poor places in Africa.

If someone, including a drug company, comes up with a vaccine, it will be available to the entire population and it will be wildly, WILDLY successful, paid for by the government and governments all over the world. I believe that the profit from an effective vaccine would completely overwhelm any paltry earnings that even new drugs like FUZEON or ISENTRESS are making. And, most likely, the vaccination would eventually become like the HBV vaccine: a recommended/mandatory childhood vaccine.

So I think there is an enormous financial incentive for a US company to come up with an effective HIV vaccine.

However, I predict that any such effective vaccine will require multiple doses and perhaps boosters. Or that it might become like the flu shot and, in order to keep up with mutations, be required every year.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1495 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 11):
It's also a coup for Thailand. The U.S. has touted its superior medical sciences forever.

It is really a joint effort.

"The study was funded by the National Institutes of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and the U.S. Army Medical Research and Materiel Command.

According to Kim, the U.S. military was involved in the study because U.S. service members are at risk and "there's a national security threat from HIV."


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27003 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1495 times:

I dont think there will be a vaccine in my lifetime that will halt HIV. Basically it is and still will be a death sentance.

User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1491 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 13):
Basically it is and still will be a death sentance.

Hardly. With med compliance the mortality rate is now on par with the general population.


User currently onlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3822 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1486 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 13):
Basically it is and still will be a death sentance.

Well, life itself is a death sentence. No one's getting out of here alive. I guess if you can just slow things down beyond your natural death, then it is as good as cured, right?

Soren  santahat 



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19724 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1486 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 13):


I dont think there will be a vaccine in my lifetime that will halt HIV. Basically it is and still will be a death sentance.

In the sense that diabetes is a death sentence. HIV and diabetes carry similar mortality and morbidity at this point. The difference is that you don't catch diabetes from anyone (that we know of, although infectious triggers keep getting proposed by various investigators).


User currently offlineN104UA From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 914 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1479 times:



Quoting ManuCH (Reply 10):
Yes, I've read that. But my question remains: 16,000 took part in the trial, and 125 got infected. That's too many people to get infected, especially because they took part in the trial! They're supposed to be people who know what HIV is about (I think those who administered the vaccine/placebo explained it first!), and still they took such a risky behavior in their lives that 125 of them got the virus.

Well they did not infect them with the virus they gave them the vaccine or placebo and watched them for 3 years so these people who got the disease did not change anything about their lives so they would have gotten it anyways

Quoting OA260 (Reply 13):
I dont think there will be a vaccine in my lifetime that will halt HIV. Basically it is and still will be a death sentance.

It is not really a death sentence now as it was in the early 1990s they can control HIV with meds and remember the HIV is not AIDS, but HIV can lead to AIDS. And remember in the 1940s we thought polio was a death sentence and same thing with small pox and they are really non-existent any more. Science is growing exponentially every day, I believe that we will see it gone by 2030.



"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3011 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1474 times:
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Quoting N104UA (Reply 17):
Well they did not infect them with the virus they gave them the vaccine or placebo and watched them for 3 years so these people who got the disease did not change anything about their lives so they would have gotten it anyways

I guess I'm having trouble expressing myself today  Smile

I know that they didn't infect them with the virus. I expect people informed about HIV to conduct such a lifestyle that minimizes infection risk. And I expect people being given a trial vaccine to be informed about HIV just enough to know what not to do in order to avoid getting it. 125 people out of 16,000 is 0.78%. That's a lot, and it sounds like these people were *not* informed about the risks of HIV - or they were ignoring the information.

Or did they actually administer the trial vaccine (or placebo) without explaining anything, as in "here's a shot for you, I won't tell you what it's good for"? I can't believe it...



Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27003 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1474 times:



Quoting N104UA (Reply 17):
It is not really a death sentence

I had a friend in London who told me that 9 years ago.

Quoting N104UA (Reply 17):
but HIV can lead to AIDS.

Thats what happened to him and he is dead now


 tombstone 


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1470 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 19):
Quoting N104UA (Reply 17):
It is not really a death sentence

I had a friend in London who told me that 9 years ago.

Quoting N104UA (Reply 17):
but HIV can lead to AIDS.

Thats what happened to him and he is dead now

I'm sorry to hear that. Was he/she med compliant?

I know people who have been HIV+ since the 80's and are still going strong and are very healthy.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19724 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1467 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 3):


This is a mixed blessing - HIV is one of the few disease scourges that has been statistically shown to drive down population growth numbers in many developing nations. If the vaccine release, once its mature, can be correlated to government-mandated contraception in many such societies, then it will be a different story entirely.

I agree that saving lives always raises the issue of what to do with those lives. However, if we can discover a cure or a vaccine then we are ethically obligated to do it.

Mandatory contraception is a rather draconian rule that will be difficult to use in countries where there is a strong ethos of childbearing. For example, in Mexico (which I choose simply because I know so many Mexicans from rural, farming communities not unlike those in Africa), it isn't so much Catholic fervor that encourages huge families, but social pressures in general. For a rural Mexican farm boy of 16 who has just been married, one way he has to prove his manhood is by ensuring that his wife is pregnant early and often. He might not give a crap about what the Priest says, but he sure cares about what the other men in his community say, because he's a young man and young men feel a lot of pressure to show their manliness.

Similarly, a girl of 16 feels a lot of pressure from the older women in her community to tow the line and make tons of babies. Especially because she really doesn't get offered much of a choice.

Yes, having a lot of kids gives you a lot of hands for the farm and ensures that you will be taken care of in your old age. But young men respond very strongly to any challenge to their masculinity. Young women respond very strongly to admonitions about motherhood and matriarchy. We can use that to our advantage in the education system.

You can't change such a culture with mandatory contraception, but with education and healthcare, you can do exactly that. Alter perceptions to young men that a man's job is to not be a father until he has an education and can support his family. Alter perceptions to women that there are other options than being a teenage mother and a stay-at-home mother of 8 children.

Technology alone can solve a lot of problems, but without responsible sociology to go with it, it causes a lot of them, too.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27003 posts, RR: 57
Reply 22, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1451 times:



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 20):
I'm sorry to hear that. Was he/she med compliant?

To be honest I dont know. We were friends for years and then drifted apart. I think he had some issues and cut people off and became a bit of a loner so it was not my decision and I can understand his reasons but only found out recently. I do kind of count my blessings that I didnt have to see him towards the end and I know that sounds bad but I dont think I would cope well at all. He was a great character though and Im glad I can remember him the way I want to.

God forbid I ever got HIV and got full blown AIDs and got really sick I would go to Switzerland and commit suicide. Thats just me personally. Same way if I ever got any other terminal illness. I know its not for everyone but i wouldnt want to be looked after by anyone.

And to think there are people that deliberately go out and get infected.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19724 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1443 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 19):

I had a friend in London who told me that 9 years ago.

And you don't know about his case or how well he took care of himself. It's not a death sentence, but like diabetes, if it's not cared for, it's deadly.

It's hard to be a motivated patient when taking your medicine doesn't necessarily treat a symptom that you have. People stop, forget, go into denial and decide that they're cured...


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27003 posts, RR: 57
Reply 24, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1421 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 23):
how well he took care of himself.

All I know is the years I knew him he was gym fit and big into nutrition and never ate bad food or junk food. Whether that changed in the last days who knows. As I said Im not sure what meds he was on but he was attending the hospital for check ups. He was doing that when we were still socialising. I remember the day he told me he was HIV+ . Was like a car dropping on me from above. Remember feeling guilty because I was close to tears and upset when it was him that had to deal with it. I had been totally sheltered from this issue until then. It never changed my views or opinions about him though and he was always ''Keith'' my friend.


25 Ual747 : I'm very happy to see that HIV hasn't become so taboo to discuss openly without the usual drivel on would expect just a few years ago. My great uncle
26 OA260 : Yes the first time I had one I wasnt even in the Doctors for that and she asked if I had one. She knew I was Gay and therefore suggested it. So it wa
27 DocLightning : Actually, I learned a few months ago during an expert by one of our HIV specialists that typically, they do. Approximately 80% of patients newly infe
28 N104UA : but if you figure that Thailand has 1.05% of the adult population with HIV, and that 51 out of 8,197 people given the vaccine got HIV that is 0.62% a
29 N1120A : Can be. That said, if we can combine a vaccine with the drug therapies already out there, hopefully we can eventually wipe out the disease while allo
30 OA412 : Indeed there are. I've read that there have been studies regarding this that have shown that some people have a genetic predisposition which makes it
31 Dtwclipper : You know, I don't know why I'm still here, and yes it amazes me everyday!
32 Zone1 : If I remember correctly the last big vaccine trial was done in Thailand. It was run by a South San Francisco company called Vaxgen. The trial failed
33 Mike89406 : They could possible move towards a therapeutic vaccine for people with HIV. What it could do is reduce the pill burden on those already taking meds a
34 Euclid : Manu, if I'm understanding what you are saying correctly, I think I can clear up the misconception here. The 16,000 people that were part of the tria
35 Ual747 : Yeah, I guess I should have made myself more clear. Some people do exhibit varying symptoms to varying degrees, however, most doctors would not diagn
36 Babybus : I was having a chat with a doctor recently and he said that no one dies of AIDS/HIV now. I didn't believe him ,but then thinking about it ,I don't kn
37 Post contains links OA260 : So that I could do one last LX TR !! In all seriousness though :: This was a BBC documentary and one of the best every made with Julie Watters http:/
38 DocLightning : Well, you don't generally die "of" it, you die "from," it. To illustrate: if you didn't have AIDS, you wouldn't have gotten the cryptococcal meningit
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