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Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley  
User currently offlineQXatFAT From Israel, joined Feb 2006, 2405 posts, RR: 5
Posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2138 times:

In Tuesday's Fresno Bee, a very interesting article was in the paper about a proposed solar "farm" in the Fresno County and San Benito County areas. Solargen has proposed the biggest solar farm in the world (second would be in Spain at 65 megawatts)! The portion in Fresno County would cover 2,600 acres and produce up to 250 megawatts of electricty (or around 125,000 to 200,000 homes) and the portion in San Benito County would cover just around 10,000 acres of land and produce up to 1,000 megawatts or 1.0 gigawatts of power (around 500,000 to 800,000 homes)!

PG&E has already been in talks with Solargen to purchase the "green" elecrity from them and power central and northern California with it. The location in San Benito County is the touchy location because of the wild life there. Read the article and you will see the issues and solutions proposed for this. The location though is a good spot because PG&E already runs lines through the area going to a grid. PG&E would be building a substation out in near the location if these plans go through.

Solargen says it would also be able to provide Fresno with at least 150 jobs before the panels are even in use because they would bring a plant to Fresno to manufacture these panels as it would be cheaper than purchasing all the panels needed.

http://www.fresnobee.com/local/story/1645817.html

Other production of energy in the area to compare to... (Source Fresno Bee & California Energy Commission)

Friant Dam (water): 25 megawatts (12,500 - 20,000 homes)
Pine Flat Dam (water): 165 megawatts (82,500 - 132,000 homes)
Big Creek (water): 1,000 megawatts (500,000 - 800,000 homes)
Morro Bay Power Plant (gas): 650 meggawatts (325,000 - 520,000 homes)
Moss Landing (gas): 2.5 gigawatts (1.25 million - 2.0 million homes)
Diablo Canyon (nuclear): 2.2 gigawatts (1.1 million - 1.76 million homes)


Don't Tread On Me!
69 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40070 posts, RR: 74
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2092 times:

Neat idea but a nuclear power plant would provide MUCH more power, take up far less space and is a green technology.
We should follow the model used in France.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26812 posts, RR: 75
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2091 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
We should follow the model used in France.

When it comes to recycling of waste, definitely. That said, we need to stop relying on mined fuel generally. Parabolic mirrors are one way of doing that.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40070 posts, RR: 74
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2087 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):
Parabolic mirrors are one way of doing that.

Is the technology there to support our existing infrastructure?



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26812 posts, RR: 75
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2085 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):

Is the technology there to support our existing infrastructure?

If you build it, they will come. No matter what kind of power plant you build, you have to hook it up to something.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40070 posts, RR: 74
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2080 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):
No matter what kind of power plant you build, you have to hook it up to something.

True.
My point was is that solar power doesn't provide that much power.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26812 posts, RR: 75
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2075 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):

My point was is that solar power doesn't provide that much power.

It doesn't take up useful space either. The middle of the desert is much less of a burden than next to a body of water for cooling. Also, it does produce plenty of power when you consider integration of other methods.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40070 posts, RR: 74
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2072 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
It doesn't take up useful space either.

Nuclear power plants takes up even less space.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26812 posts, RR: 75
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2068 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):

Nuclear power plants takes up even less space.

Not less useful space. Nuclear power plants need to be near a water source. Parabolic mirrors (and wind turbines for that matter) do not.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40070 posts, RR: 74
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2065 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Nuclear power plants need to be near a water source.

Well unfortunately the GM/Toyota NUMMI plant in Fremont will be closing. Why not put one there?



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26812 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2063 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):

Well unfortunately the GM/Toyota NUMMI plant in Fremont will be closing. Why not put one there?

Because it is in the middle of a major metro area.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40070 posts, RR: 74
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2060 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
Because it is in the middle of a major metro area.

Hasn't developers gone all the way to the boundaries of the San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station?
It's that only thing separating Los Angeles and San Diego metro area.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26812 posts, RR: 75
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2056 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):

Hasn't developers gone all the way to the boundaries of the San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station?
It's that only thing separating Los Angeles and San Diego metro area.

Well, there is Camp Pendleton. Also, The Boobs are surrounded by a state park that provides extra buffer. Alas, no more nude beach there.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40070 posts, RR: 74
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2055 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):
Alas, no more nude beach there.

Damn!
There is one further south near San Diego.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineQXatFAT From Israel, joined Feb 2006, 2405 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2012 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Neat idea but a nuclear power plant would provide MUCH more power

For sure! Look at the numbers I gave compared to other "green" sources of energy. Although it would produce a lot of energy, a county in California would need to really want it for the job because I would think most would not want anything nuclear near their homes. Maybe northern California?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
It doesn't take up useful space either.

That is correct. You can put these in the middle of the desert and no one will be complaining because you took their prime spot to build their dream home.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
Because it is in the middle of a major metro area.

I know its not a major metro area but Diablo Canyon is in Avila Beach near Pismo Beach and San Luis Obispo which are pretty good size areas.

Besides that point, what a beutiful place to work eh? Right on the ocean!



Don't Tread On Me!
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2808 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2009 times:

I'm curious what the water bill will be to keep the mirrors clean. That sounds like a pretty big job cleaning 4.7 million solar panels.


It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20344 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2004 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):

When it comes to recycling of waste, definitely. That said, we need to stop relying on mined fuel generally. Parabolic mirrors are one way of doing that.

Well, the nice thing about nuclear is that you don't need very much fuel to get a bunch of energy out. It's a good stopgap supply of energy while we wait for something truly renewable, like fusion, to come along,.


User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6676 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1995 times:
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People love announcing stuff.

Quoting QXatFAT (Thread starter):
portion in San Benito County would cover just around 10,000 acres of land and produce up to 1,000 megawatts

And with what transmission lines? Please.

All of this announcements are really useless unless right next to it there is an announcement of new High-Voltage transmission lines to deliver the power.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineFlanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1661 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1993 times:

Now we just have to wait for the environmentalist wackos to start screaming that some lizard might be in danger or a cactus might be killed because of 10,000 acres of panels and other things associated with that. How many people want to bet it wont happen because this is "renewable" energy?

God forbid we put nuclear plants in place that provide proper energy.



Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2808 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1985 times:



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 17):
And with what transmission lines? Please.

The ones that are already in place above both sites, according to the article. What extra capacity they have is not mentioned, but transmission lines already exist.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4638 posts, RR: 36
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1983 times:

Is there potential for geothermal power plants there? Have a solar and wind base augmented by geothermal (which is stable and constant). That would be ideal IMO.


Word
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20344 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1978 times:



Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 20):
Is there potential for geothermal power plants there? Have a solar and wind base augmented by geothermal (which is stable and constant). That would be ideal IMO.

I don't think CA is very good for geothermal.

BTW, totally OT: did you know that geothermal power is nuclear power? Those high-and-mighty "nuclear-free" Kiwis down in New Zealand are all using nuclear power! Yup.

See, one of the reasons the Earth's core is still molten and hasn't solidified some 4 billion years after its formation is from the decay of radioactive isotopes. Geothermal power uses this energy.

So all of New Zealand is a mass hypocrisy.  duck   Wink


User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6676 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1967 times:
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Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 19):

The ones that are already in place above both sites, according to the article. What extra capacity they have is not mentioned, but transmission lines already exist.

uh huh.. and they are in talks with PG&E.. the company that contracted "solar energy with panels in space.."

"California's biggest energy utility announced a deal Monday to purchase 200 megawatts of electricity from a startup company that plans to beam the power down to Earth from outer space, beginning in 2016."


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30198977/



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2808 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1939 times:



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 22):
uh huh.. and they are in talks with PG&E.. the company that contracted "solar energy with panels in space.."

They are also the company that provides electricity for millions of homes and businesses in California, including my apartment. They have a very large coverage area in the state as PG&E is the dominant electric utility in central and northern California. If you need someone to buy and move your electricity in this state, PG&E is the first call you make.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6676 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 1937 times:
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Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 23):
If you need someone to buy and move your electricity in this state

Or to move said electricity from other planets...

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 23):
If you need someone to buy and move your electricity in this state, PG&E is the first call you make.

Yes and No.... ill leave it at that.. Smile



Step into my office, baby
25 Alias1024 : You're just jealous that I'm going to be getting fancy, extra special space electricity and you're not. Actually, I think the solar energy satellite
26 NoUFO : Hence help companies providing electric power to form syndicates, which of course is not good. Since when? Hopefully, you don't think it's emission-f
27 Superfly : It's a hell of a lot cleaner than coal burning plants. We have tons of coal burning plants here in the US. As far as nuclear waste, we'll do what the
28 NoUFO : Huh? The French have no clue what to do with their nuclear waste. To my knowledge they simply stock it (accessible - good for plenty of dirty bombs) i
29 QXatFAT : If you read the article Mt99, then you would not have wrote your comment. PG&E is ready to do all that is necessary to make the transition even smoot
30 Superfly : Then I guess sticking to coal is the answer then.
31 Post contains links Mt99 : I dont want to get into a whole thing here with you but: I am coming from my experience in the power markets. I deal with PGE - and with 15 or 20 oth
32 QXatFAT : He is a very smart man. As I am sure you are as well, but you seem so confident that this can not happen. Things do not already have to be in place f
33 N1120A : It is sort of like San Onofre. They might be on beach front real estate, but they have decent sized buffers. Still, I wouldn't want to be in SLO if t
34 DocLightning : You can have a nuclear plant that takes up five acres and makes 2 gigawatts. Or you can have a 3,000 acre sun field that does 200 megawatts. That's n
35 N1120A : This field will be more like 11,000 acres and do 1.2 gigawatts. If you read the story, the panels would go up over about 1000 acres of the entire 260
36 NoUFO : Even if they managed to double the outcome: A couple of percent times two = A couple of percent more. La Hague is not Sellafield, the French dump les
37 Mt99 : a 70 kV would not have the capacity to move such power. No its not. Federal Regulations mandate that all generation project in PG&E territory (in thi
38 Alias1024 : That's why I specifically said PG&E is dominant in Northern and Central California in the sentence before the one you quoted. That list is almost thr
39 Mt99 : Nope. CAISO only accept new generation application a certain number of times a year. The current window ended on June 30th. A new window will open so
40 AustrianZRH : It all depends on the developments of the prices for fossile fuels. Right now, thin film modules using CdTe or Cu(In,Ga)Se2 absorbers have production
41 N1120A : Saying "this state" as opposed to "this part of the state" changed the meaning. It isn't green. It is greener. Mostly a bridge to better options.
42 QXatFAT : Well not the power from the PV that would be built by Solargen. Of course not! That 70kV line in your chart was to something else that PG&E already h
43 QXatFAT : How many pounds of waste is produced on average do you think from this type of energy? I agree that it is greener energy then burning coal but I wond
44 N1120A : Well, that is what this whole Yucca Mountain thing is about, right? Too bad we don't have Superman to send it up to the sun.
45 Canoecarrier : No but they take up vast amounts of space. Solar panel construction is not very green, and they are also not that easy to dispose of when their usefu
46 N1120A : But the point is, it doesn't matter. This isn't space we use.
47 Vapar8 : I think N1120A needs to do some research and get back to us on the location of the LARGEST nuclear power plant in the US.
48 Alias1024 : All you had to do was read the sentence before to understand the meaning.
49 Canoecarrier : May not be space we use, but that's not what drives the reviews of these facilities. One endangered species that uses that habitat and the project ma
50 Flanker : Maybe so but you are relying on wind which is not reliable. How do you feed a city that needs power when there is no wind or not enough. Solar and ge
51 QXatFAT : But yet sun and wind are things that are endless supplies. I know that the wind comes and goes but there will always be some wind and there will alwa
52 NoUFO : Good idea as the leukemia rate is usually higher in a 5-miles-zone around a nuclear power plant. But if the *h*t really hits the fan, the proposed Be
53 Flanker : I visit there often, but i have not lived in Bulgaria for some time now. If they do build NEW facilities that are up to date that take into considera
54 Canoecarrier : Not sure what your point is, there are many places where wind is much more reliable than solar. And, visa versa. The largest wind turbine produces 5
55 Flanker : i was speaking in general about wind energy. i wasn't comparing it to solar.
56 Canoecarrier : Wind is actually quite efficient, but off shore wind farms, like those in Europe are many years away in the US. Near shore wind farms could easily pr
57 Mt99 : It is. Non dispatchable energy can be efficiently integrated to about 20% of load before things start to get tricky. But then it also depends on how
58 NoUFO : You may not see any problem with it. The former head of Bulgaria's first nuclear power plant, who later became President of the Bulgarian Nuclear Reg
59 Post contains links Canoecarrier : Compared to the 10-20% you'd get with solar, yes. Wind farms tend to be pretty robust against a portion of the plant being down because the turbines
60 DocLightning : Wind and solar have the disadvantage of inefficiency. Wind and sun may be free, but the energy production per square meter is very poor, and the amou
61 NoUFO : Only now. Give the development of future generations of solar and wind farms a change by spending money on today's technology, and you'll see what's
62 Superfly : That's fine. Until then, lets ge nuclear until wind & solar technology improves.
63 NoUFO : "That's fine. Until then, let's use lighter than air vehicles until fixed wing technology improves." How is a technology going to evolve if no one is
64 Superfly : I am all in favor of testing wind & solar power. However we should use nuclear in the meantime and test wind & solar power in smaller communities.
65 PPVRA : If these technologies have potential, labs will keep working on it until the technology is mature enough. You don't need huge farms to develop a tech
66 QXatFAT : Does anyone know the cost effeciancy on 1 meggawatt of electricty from solar from 1 meggawatt from nuclear plants?
67 Flanker : I cant stand it when they make deals with the Ruskis. And compared to nuclear? ....
68 Canoecarrier : Well sure, I already said nuclear has a CFE nearly 3 times that of wind and almost 5 times more than solar. But, you don't get credit for the renewab
69 AustrianZRH : That cannot be said as you need to calculate the cost of energy rather than the cost of power. As I have shown in reply 40, the price per kWh in acce
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