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Death, Decay, And Detroit  
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19411 posts, RR: 58
Posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9773 times:

I'm in Michigan right now where I was invited to be the keynote speaker at a conference on ADHD (which went very well, BTW). I stayed a few extra days so that I could visit my old hometown. It's turned out to be one of the most depressing trips I've ever taken.

All my mom's friends have gotten so...old! They're wrinkled, they use walkers, they are losing their faculties, it's awful to see. But what's worse to see is the lack of young people. They're leaving as fast as they can. All the houses in our neighborhood are full of old people with their nurses and maids. There are no children to be seen. It's like "Children of Men."

And my friends? They don't do things that people in their 30's should be doing. They're not dating, they're not having kids ("why would you have a kid in a time like this?"), they can't find jobs, they're struggling not to lose their homes, it's awful. It's as if the cycle of life here is grinding to a halt.

Last night I went to my friend Rob's place. Rob had two bright, cute, very active Jack Russels named Spot and Splash when I left here 4 years ago. Once, their reaction to anyone at the door was to slam headlong into the door, then do a lap around the dining room table, then slam headlong into the door and bark their throats out. Now, Spot is gone and Splash doesn't even know that someone's at the door because he's deaf and blind and can hardly walk without falling over. I broke down sobbing when I saw my strong, goofy, crazy little friend as a tired, arthritic, confused old dog who looks just about ready to give up. Rob's not ready to put him down just yet.

The economic crisis is obvious here, but unlike San Francisco, I think this was the final death blow to the area. Shops are boarded up and homes are abandoned, their tenants evicted without any new tenants to replace them. Places I remember from my childhood have recently closed down, due to the recession. Tony's Barber Shop is gone after 40 years. I got my hair cut there from age 5 until I went to Stanford. The people look as if they have simply come to accept the destruction as the new "normal." The name "Detroit" seems to refer to a memory these days. The region is no longer "Metro Detroit," but rather "Southeastern Michigan." The city of Detroit has become irrelevant, a victim of slow abandonment. A modern Mandu.

I came home after all these years and all I found is death, decay, and a wasteland. I used to hate Detroit with a passion because I felt trapped here, but I don't hate it anymore. It just makes me so sad to see my childhood home so devastated. It's been like a surreal movie. I was expecting it to be bad...but as an ex-pat native, I think it looks worse to me than it does to the locals who have watched this happen day-by-day. It's just a horrible shock to see what has happened. I can only hope that something new will take root and grow here. There's tons of space, ample water, and a wealth of abandoned buildings from which to draw raw materials for construction.

I don't know why I posted this. There isn't much to discuss. I'm just blown away by the devastation. And I'm thankful, so very thankful, to have made my home in San Francisco. I go back home this afternoon... F-class on a NW 752.

101 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3810 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9647 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
the lack of young people. They're leaving as fast as they can



Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
until I went to Stanford

Well, there you have the cause of the problem... or shall I say, you are the cause of the problem. "Brain drain" = young, educated people leaving the area, while less educated people stay there. Many places suffer from this, especially rural areas in developing countries, or as in this case, industrial areas that are past their best years.

Soren santahat 



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently onlineMike89406 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1460 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9542 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
I don't know why I posted this. There isn't much to discuss. I'm just blown away by the devastation. And I'm thankful, so very thankful, to have made my home in San Francisco. I go back home this afternoon... F-class on a NW 752.

Don't feel bad it's Michigan  duck  J/K.

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 2):
Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
I came home after all these years and all I found is death, decay, and a wasteland

Depends on where you're looking. Yes we are getting hit hard by this depression. But as has happened before, Michigan and the Detroit area will rebound.

Then again Detroit has suffered from a bad rap before the Economy Downturn.

I will say this although my hometown wasn't as bad when I went back for my recent reunion I always felt a depressing Aura surrounding  Sad the Spokane area anytime I go to visit.

Mike


User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7137 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9498 times:

Here is a link to a website with some very sorry looking images of Detroit http://www.seedetroit.com/pictures/urbandecay/ the train station has to be the biggest travesty of the lot, stunning building left to rot.

User currently offlineType-Rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4951 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9479 times:

Time moves on and waits for nobody. It kind of reminds you of the saying "You can never go home again". Home has changed and will never be the same again.
How many years has it been since you were last in Detroit?



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8406 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9456 times:

I went to Detroit this summer. It was a surprisingly good looking city. Yes, it has vast wastelands. But, it also has a lot of good stuff.

I'd love to hear your opinions on ADHD someday. I am pretty skeptical of that whole movement. But, opinions are pretty strong on both sides of it. Another thread probably.


User currently offlineFX772LRF From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 675 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9428 times:

I don't think what Mike was trying to get at was that Michigan is a bad place, but more of what you don't realize as you get older. Things change...drastically. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. I think Mike's position is the latter.

It's sad to see what happens and what you realize when you get older. It's got to be hard, and I'm not looking forward to it at all. Everyday, I have a voice in the back of my head, wondering when our eldest dog is going to pass away and how I'm going to deal with it.

Mike, I hope your trip and keynote presentation went well, and thanks for sharing.

-Noah  wave 



Cleared to IAH via CLL 076 radial/BAZBL/RIICE3, up to 3k, 7k in 10, departure on 134.3, squawk 4676, Colgan 9581.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9393 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
until I went to Stanford.

There is your problem, Doc. You left while your family stayed behind. You could have gone to UM instead and stayed closer to your family. Had you done that, your thinking about Michigan would probably be 180 degrees the other way.

Again, you are the one that left in the first place....



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9327 times:



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 12):
I invite any and all of you to come to my hometown, let ME show you around, and you will see that Detroit with all it warts is still a great town!

I'll take your offer up on that, I'd love to see what Michigan is really like.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineDtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1154 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9311 times:

The news media wouldn't have much to talk about if they posted these pics of Detroit. Yep ,nothing but rot and decay

The Guardian building


The Fisher building


The Fox Theatre


User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5678 posts, RR: 45
Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9250 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I think our young doctor friend has finally seen life without his rose tinted glasses..

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
All the houses in our neighborhood are full of old people with their nurses and maids.

This is a bad thing, there would be many millions of elderly folk in your country (and mine) that would feel quite priveliged to grow old gracefully with the assistance of nurses AND maids.

Really Doc, you do have a distorted view of the world.

Dtw9, those are some glorious buildings.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineFuturePilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9249 times:

A few of my friends went to detroit for the final four last year and they said it looked so awful, it seemed like a third world country. I know there is a thread right now about whether California is the first failed state, I think we could make a great argument that if Detroit continues down this path with no recovery, it could be on its way to being a failed city at this point in time, not the first failed city, but a failure nonetheless. Hopefully they can get something going there in Detroit, ya gotta feel for em. What can they do to bring in some jobs there that can generate enough income? Because the last thing a city needs is for people to move somewhere else because of the scarcity of jobs.

[Edited 2009-10-04 17:00:28]


"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9241 times:

The Detoit Opera House, home of the Michigan Opera Theatre
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/dtwclipper/a-full-house.jpg

Wayne State
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/dtwclipper/waynestate1.jpg

Ford Field, Home of the Detoir Lio.....oh maybe not such a great example
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/dtwclipper/fordfield-detroit-DSC08410-1.jpg

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 18):
Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
All the houses in our neighborhood are full of old people with their nurses and maids.

This is a bad thing, there would be many millions of elderly folk in your country (and mine) that would feel quite priveliged to grow old gracefully with the assistance of nurses AND maids.

This is true in many parts of the country! Older suburbs were the original owners are still there and have aged in their own homes rather than moving. I'm trying to figure out what is wrong with that. I plan on staying in my current home for many, many years. My father's "lady friend" has been in her home in Franklin, Michigan since she got married in 1949 when she moved in with her in-laws who built it in 1927. What is the problem there?


User currently offlineDtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1154 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9212 times:

Look at all the rot and decay in birmingham at the Woodward dream cruise. 16 miles of classic car heaven

http://www.detroitmoxie.com/storage/DSCN5921.JPG?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1250480670752

Clipper you picked the wrong statium

http://i.pbase.com/u26/spepple/upload/31637291.comerica_park2.jpg


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9210 times:



Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 21):
Clipper you picked the wrong statium

Ok, here you go:



Oh, and you can't spell Detroit without


User currently offlineDtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1154 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9203 times:



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 22):
Oh, and you can't spell Detroit without

Yes I can



User currently offlineDtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1154 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9185 times:

And you couldn't be a kid from Detroit if you don't remember this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQqyDj7RX6Y


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9186 times:



Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 24):
And you couldn't be a kid from Detroit if you don't remember this

You'll like this site:

http://www.detroitkidshow.com/detroit_commercials


Remember the DIA "you've gotta have art"!


User currently offlineNW747400 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9241 times:

I'd like to travel to Detroit to see it for myself but like many others here my friends who have been there have not painted a very pretty picture of what it is like. They say that, although there are still some magnificant buildings, much of the city is in decay. They also said that Detroit has consistantly had the highest violent crime rate in America. That being said I hope that someday Detroit can get its act together and once again take a place among the great cities in America.
NW747400


User currently offlineDtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1154 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9237 times:



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 25):
Remember the DIA "you've gotta have art"!

It's already on my computer. Don't know why the DIA doesn't bring that one back


User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1576 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9232 times:

Ewww Vernors! I'm more of a Faygo fan!

Anyways, did anyone see the piece in Time last week? It's part of a year long look at the city by Time. I thought it was pretty good and I'm looking forward to seeing all the pieces.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1925796,00.html

The part I found interesting is the changing of the abandoned parts of the city to greenbelts. I think that would really help the immediate image people get when they drive into the city for their first time.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 13):
I'll take your offer up on that, I'd love to see what Michigan is really like.

It is awesome, I love Michigan, that's very hard to say for someone that grew up in Ohio but I am here to stay. I travel all over this great country for a living and I am always counting down the days until I come back home. Come on out and enjoy the splendor of the Great Lakes state.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9232 times:



Quoting NW747400 (Reply 26):
That being said I hope that someday Detroit can get its act together and once again take a place among the great cities in America.

Not one of us who live in the Metro area (about 5 million) will deny that we have our share of problems, but remember "Detroit" is more than just the city, it is the entire South East Michigan area from Ann Arbor, Birmingham, Royal Oak, the Grosse Pointes, and many other great places!


User currently offlineDtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1154 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9232 times:



Quoting NW747400 (Reply 26):
They also said that Detroit has consistantly had the highest violent crime rate in America.

Isn't it amazing we can have over 1 million people year after year downtown at one of the country's biggest fireworks displays and have very little crime. We have a million and a half at the Woodward dream cruise with no crime. We have a million at the Thanksgiving day parade and you guessed it,very little crime. As with all cities you know where and when to go and not go.


User currently offlineNW747400 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9222 times:

[quote=Dtw9,reply=30]Isn't it amazing we can have over 1 million people year after year downtown at one of the country's biggest fireworks displays and have very little crime. We have a million and a half at the Woodward dream cruise with no crime. We have a million at the Thanksgiving day parade and you guessed it,very little crime. As with all cities you know where and when to go and not go.[/quote

I agree with you that in any major city a little common sense goes a long way, but still the statistics tell the story. Detroit consistently has the highest violent crime rate in the country.


User currently offlineDtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1154 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9209 times:



Quoting NW747400 (Reply 32):
I agree with you that in any major city a little common sense goes a long way, but still the statistics tell the story. Detroit consistently has the highest violent crime rate in the country.

Quite true. But do some research on those stats. You'll find that most violent crime in Detroit is drug related,domestic disputes,friend on friend or family on family.


Random crime is not the main source of the stats.Clipper this one will make you feel old

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8Wt_DHw684&feature=related


25 Post contains links Dtw9 : Here's a 2007 report from Wayne State http://www.tedconline.com/uploads/2007_Final_Crime_Report%5B1%5D.pdf
26 LTBEWR : Many other mainly old industrial cities in the 'rustbelt' region of the USA are also suffering from the movement of industry away to other parts of th
27 JetsGo : I have been visiting Detroit twice a year for the past 15 years and absolutely love it. I look forward to it every single time. NAIAS in January and f
28 AverageUser : I can see even across from here that those property values have been inflated from the outset. There'll always be a buyer when the price is right, th
29 BMI727 : Detroit has been hit hard, and for that matter wasn't the greatest place (at least by reputation) before. But come on, it isn't like Mogadishu or some
30 PROSA : Houses in parts of Detroit can be purchased for less than the price of a typical new car. It could well be that investing in these neighborhoods, whil
31 Toulouse : Dear all, I have just ripped this thread apart and deleted some 40 posts. Perhaps I should have just locked it, but I, and the other moderators, felt
32 Post contains links and images Superfly : ....and DocLightning drives a Japanese made Toyota Prius!       My hometown of Gary, Indiana has suffered the same challenges as Detroit, Michigan
33 DocLightning : Which proves that there's nothing inherently wrong with the place. Truly GREAT THINGS have come from Detroit. My grandfather is from a tiny town up n
34 Superfly : Nope, that is assembled in a sweatshop in Japan by outsourced immigrants from Burma, Vietnam by laborers who are stripped of their passports an force
35 NorCal : Wait this can't be true, Japan allows this to happen? I agree that the Prius is a poor excuse for a truly green car (turbo diesel is a much better ch
36 Post contains links DocLightning : check your facts: http://russelldad.blogspot.com/2007/...t-checking-on-hummer-vs-prius.html This is becoming one of those urban myths, like the one t
37 Post contains links Superfly : Not sure. I've started a thread about it here. Slavery-like Conditions At Toyota Factory In Japan (by Superfly Oct 5 2009 in Non Aviation)
38 DocLightning : That's exactly what I feel. Whichever mod pointed it out, thank you. That's a great choice of words. BTW, those fireworks and that parade? Up until a
39 GQfluffy : Not to have this blow up in everyone's faces again... Why would your sister do that? It's her job, is it not? People would kill to have even work for
40 DocLightning : Of COURSE she was rooting for the Wings, silly. It was a joke. You know, ha-ha? Funny?
41 Post contains links and images Falstaff : St. John's Episcopal Church, in Detroit. Opened in 1861 (chapel opened in 1859). One of the last Episcopal churches still using only the 1928 prayer
42 FlyDeltaJets87 : I went to Detroit for the first time this summer (other than having connected in DTW a few times). If the rest of the city was as nice as the airport,
43 DocLightning : Oh yes they can. But first you have to convince investors that it will happen this lifetime. And Pfizer closed their labs in Ann Arbor a few years ag
44 QXatFAT : Yuck! I will stick to my Canada Dry. When I was in Michigan, I would buy Canada Dry and people would ask why I wasnt buying Verners. Once I brought o
45 DocLightning : Gentiles...er...non-Michiganders don't like Vernors because of what happens when you get it too near your nose and inhale. You can't inhale while dri
46 QXatFAT : I wish someone would have told that to this Gentile. I will admit though, Vernors did make a better Boston Cooler than Canada Dry.
47 AverageUser : We don't have the rule here. Everyone with the asking money is allowed to buy no matter what the colour of the collar. In my street here I have medic
48 DocLightning : You misunderstand. This is the neighborhood where the former CEOs of Ford and GM live. My parents live there because they got the house 40 years ago.
49 AverageUser : I see, selling to a developer is no option then? Or splitting up the properties so that more people, even collarless, would be able to build their ho
50 JetsGo : I'm sorry but I have to disagree. My grandfather worked on the line for GM (textbook blue collar) for the last 35 years of his career, retired in 200
51 DocLightning : Then why aren't they buying any places in this neighborhood? Believe me, my mom would be more than happy to sell to a line worker. She'd be happy to
52 JetsGo : Wouldn't you start low and raise upon interest? BTW, could you send me or post some links to those cheap cheap properties? I haven't been able to fin
53 AirframeAS : Doc, consider this as a solution to your problem: Why not pack up and leave California and move back to your home town. Contribute to the solutions of
54 JetsGo : I think we can rule that out. Doc drives a Prius. It would never survive a winter in Michigan.
55 Tb727 : Nope, not at all, people wanted to stay here, over 1000 families were affected in the area. Quite a few have stayed behind to try and begin their own
56 RussianJet : Totally disagree. It stimulates debate, may cause him to reassess some of his thoughts, allows others to consider a different point of view and see h
57 DocLightning : Because only a fool boards a sinking ship? I don't believe that Detroit has hit rock bottom yet. I believe it's going to get a *lot* worse before it
58 Post contains links Dtw9 : Try here. Go to the top of the page a drop down the home finder and put in your ranges. I punched in a max of 10 grand and came up with homes in Dbn
59 Falstaff : Check out Remerica or Keck the are well known realtor's in this part of town. Most of the cheap properties are in Wayne County, especially the inner
60 Mirrodie : You know, I was going to say, reading your post reminded me of some PTA movie....Punch Drunk Love. Well that is the interesting thing about perspecti
61 TLG : Now we can add the Tigers to Detroit's stats of decay & death. -TLG
62 Continental : Ha, I was just going to add that.
63 Dtw9 : That's just the point. The media and Doc want you to believe that the entire area of Detroit and Southeast Michigan is a vast wasteland. No balance i
64 Post contains links and images DocLightning : OK, let's look at some other photos of Detroit: The photos you were shown of glittering buildings and well-kept museums are all taken from a small ar
65 Luckyone : This summer I worked with a woman who worked at Pfizer's former Upjohn facility. She claims they closed in the name of downsizing and consolidation.
66 DocLightning : That's good. Michigan has lots of open space in which you can build these labs. I hope they mine these industries to diversify.
67 LTBEWR : For now, southeastern Michigan is in deep trouble, but who knows about the future? If one can buy a house for a fraction of prices in other parts of t
68 Flighty : Doc, those are beautiful! We went to Detroit (and some other places) just to take photos like that. Ahh, the poignant decay... it's irresistible to so
69 DocLightning : Urban decay is an important part of a city because it allows that city to be rebuilt and it allows for new projects and new construction that continu
70 Superfly : That two-tone Mercury Cougar XR-7 has lots of potential.
71 DocLightning : The one with the blown tire that looks like it hasn't been driven anywhere in several months? I think Detroit must be having a problem keeping up wit
72 Mirrodie : I must say Im glad you both posted photos. They are certainly at opposite ends of the spectrum. I also feel that you've both, like photographers, vie
73 DocLightning : It is a city of extremes. That is true. The problem is that the extreme I depict is more prevalent. No. Wish I had. SF has a few of those, too. But j
74 Superfly : Yes, that one. Hell no!
75 757MDE : I can relate to this.
76 Post contains links PPVRA : "Thousands mob Detroit center in hopes of free cash" http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...-Peoqc-Aa8Tr2VSC2VIH3qY6gD9B6HC880 That kind of mindset is
77 DocLightning : They're already past that point. The crime rate has dropped, in part, because nobody has anything, so why bother?
78 Jetstar : In all the threads about the decay and its causes in Detroit, one thing I have not seen mentioned, that was the riots in the late 1960’s. I assume a
79 Falstaff : Three of the four pictures of houses are in the same neighborhood (Brush Park). Two of the houses no longer exist, including the one with the Mercury
80 Hjulicher : I'm a young professional graduated from UofMichigan and from Oakland County. If you want my perspectives of what's happening to METRO DETROIT and not
81 DocLightning : To some degree yes and to some degree no. I agree that Los Angeles has suffered a similar sprawl situation as Detroit, but Los Angeles has some force
82 Stretch 8 : Doc: I hear you. I grew up in Birmingham, still visit with my brother and his family in Bloomfield Hills in the summer time. It has never been this ba
83 Johns624 : I used to work in the building in the second picture in Post 64. In fact, I'm the one who called 911 when the fire started. It was originally the main
84 VonRichtofen : I've actually thought about that myself. I mean you wouldn't be on the hook for much. Mortgage payments would be like $250/month tops if you had to m
85 AverageUser : So we perhaps have the our first sworn anarchist on the forum?
86 GQfluffy : Well...if the Red Wings fans would burn an empty building every time their effing team implodes like it did in the 3rd tonight...it may solve some pro
87 PPVRA : I just don't see political reform of any meaningful form happening. I'm not calling for chaos, just doesn't seem likely that it can be avoided. Thoug
88 Post contains links AverageUser : I don't know whether you're aware of this yourself, but you appear to have the greatest affinity to this particular type of anarchism: http://en.wiki
89 PPVRA : Libertarians seek for more inclusion under laws, not to abolish all laws like anarchists. The only laws libertarians are against are those that requi
90 Post contains images GQfluffy : I think Chris Chelios says it best to you people who left Detroit then just come back and slam it. You left. You're out. Deal with it. The people stil
91 DocLightning : Fluffy, I'm over slamming Detroit. I left it because I didn't like it. Now that I'm gone and have no risk of having to go back there to live, I no lo
92 AverageUser : Major nonsence: all law finally ends in "an initiation of force". If you do not comply with the law there will a court order and a forceful enforceme
93 PPVRA : Absolutely wrong. You can use force against an aggressor. Laws in relation to this are not an initiation of force, they are a response to it. I want
94 AverageUser : How come wrong? You commit a crime under the law in force, are convicted in a court of law to be taken to jail. Rest assured there will be a special
95 PPVRA : A criminal is by definition an aggressor. The person enforcing the law is using force against an aggressor. The only proper use of force is against f
96 AverageUser : Whose definition? Not all criminals are aggressors. A professor who channels research money to his personal account abroad. He's an aggressor? Probab
97 Post contains links PPVRA : You can add fraud to the list. If it is not aggression, next time some company uses "aggressive marketing campaigns" don't come whining about being d
98 Johns624 : I think you two need to start your own thread.
99 Post contains links AverageUser : Your wish is granted. Here you are, everybody: The Official Anarchism Thread! (by Averageuser Oct 20 2009 in Non Aviation)
100 Post contains links Slider : http://spectator.org/archives/2009/1.../19/no-shortage-of-contempt-in-det “No Shortage of Contempt in Detroit”….how timely. Thought you could us
101 Post contains links Slider : http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...5641226.html#articleTabs%3Darticle Another excellent commentary on the state of the economy in Michigan in gene
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The Sudden And Tragic Death Of Mariana Levy posted Sat Apr 30 2005 04:13:45 by CORULEZ05
Definitions Of Brain Death And PVS posted Thu Mar 24 2005 23:52:58 by Redngold
Fascinating Picture Of The USA: Death And Taxes posted Mon Feb 7 2005 03:01:48 by MD-90
Detroit And The Summer Olympics posted Wed Aug 25 2004 15:54:39 by Dtwclipper
Death And Your Modes Of Transportation posted Tue Jun 12 2007 07:14:23 by Planespotting
The Life And Death Of Belfast's 'Doris Day'. posted Wed Oct 12 2005 21:53:51 by GDB
The Sudden And Tragic Death Of Mariana Levy posted Sat Apr 30 2005 04:13:45 by CORULEZ05