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CNN - Gun Toting Mom Found Shot To Death  
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19688 posts, RR: 58
Posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1908 times:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/08/gun.soccer.mom.dead/index.html

Quote:
Soccer mom Melanie Hain, who made national headlines last year by having a loaded, holstered handgun at her 5-year-old daughter's soccer game, has been found shot dead in her home along with her husband, police said Thursday.
...
Police have avoided labeling the incident a murder-suicide. However, they do not believe that another person was involved, Wright said. A full investigation is under way, he added.

I am very pro-2nd Amendment. But I would like to point out those who disbelieve that this is one of many reasons why people who keep firearms in their homes are three times as likely as those who do not to die of a firearm wound. This risk can be minimized by keeping your firearms in a locked cabinet, unloaded, with ammunition in a separate locked box (inside the cabinet is OK). Families who take this precaution have a firearm injury risk far lower than families who do not. By "risk" I am speaking of numerical risk ratios in published studies based on findings, not a theoretical risk.

[Edited 2009-10-08 22:55:41]

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21624 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1897 times:

You have to feel really bad for her kids, who just lost both their parents at far too early an age.  Sad

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1886 times:

I find it interesting that FOX news doesn't bother showing this...gee, wonder why?

Especially when they're happy to keep David Letterman as the biggest front page news...and being the only one's who are doing so. CNN, MSNBC, BBC News...you have tolook hard to find anything about Letterman there.. Could it be because Letterman slamed Palin?

Letterman shouldn't have been big news to begin with.

Anyway...I actually am pro 2nd-Amendment (with the exception of certain weapons, but I won't get into that). It's sad for the kids who have to deal with crap like this.


User currently offlineMax550 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1808 times:

Glad this happened at home rather than the two of them having a shootout on the soccer fields. If she really was carrying the gun in self defense, as it seems she was, I don't think it's appropriate to go to a kids soccer game. I'm not saying she shouldn't have the right to carry it, but it looks like a pretty stupid thing to do.

User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1696 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
But I would like to point out those who disbelieve that this is one of many reasons why people who keep firearms in their homes are three times as likely as those who do not to die of a firearm wound.

Only 3 times? With the large exception of a home invasion and the miniscule exception of a friend or neighbor stopping by while packing, how is someone who doesn't keep a gun in their home at any risk of dying of a firearm wound? I would think that between accidental shootings and murders those that keep guns in their homes are many more times more likely to die of a firearm wound. Can you expound a little?

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
Families who take this precaution have a firearm injury risk far lower than families who do not.

That certainly sounds credible.

Shame if it turned into a murder suicide. Given that, according to the story, she was contemplating a restraining order it appears that it is another sad case of domestic violence taken to the extreme.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19688 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1694 times:



Quoting DXing (Reply 10):

Only 3 times? With the large exception of a home invasion and the miniscule exception of a friend or neighbor stopping by while packing, how is someone who doesn't keep a gun in their home at any risk of dying of a firearm wound?

The claim made by gun advocates is that carrying firearms makes them safer because they can defend themselves. I understand how they could think that, but the numbers don't bear out that claim. And you've just explained why they don't.

It's just like how in car crashes, the most common faulty part that caused the accident is the nut behind the wheel.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21624 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1686 times:



Quoting Max550 (Reply 3):
I don't think it's appropriate to go to a kids soccer game.

Agree (especially unconcealed), but that's water under the bridge at this point. Her prior actions shouldn't have any bearing on this sort of thing.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16865 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1666 times:

Why was she allowed to carry (concealed or otherwise), was she LEO?.. It states her husband was a Probation officer, but they don't carry and even if it did that doesn't apply to spouses.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1660 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 13):

You don't have to be an LEO to carry a firearm visibly in public.


User currently offlineMax550 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1658 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 13):
Why was she allowed to carry (concealed or otherwise), was she LEO?.. It states her husband was a Probation officer, but they don't carry and even if it did that doesn't apply to spouses.

She had a concealed weapon permit which was taken away by a sheriff but reinstated by a county judge. My understanding is that you don't need a permit to openly carry a gun in PA except for Philly, you only need a permit if it's concealed.
Here's a link to the local story, it has a little more background info:
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...gun-toting_soccer_mom_is_shot.html

Edit: incorrectly said the permit was taken by a judge, should have said sheriff

[Edited 2009-10-09 09:57:41]

User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1655 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 11):
The claim made by gun advocates is that carrying firearms makes them safer because they can defend themselves.

Outside of the home. Your reference was to in the home. You don't read about too many Barney Fife incidents in public and the vast majority are police officers accidently discharging their weapons into their legs or feet.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21624 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1592 times:

Quoting DXing (Reply 17):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 11):
The claim made by gun advocates is that carrying firearms makes them safer because they can defend themselves.

Outside of the home. Your reference was to in the home.

It's also been claimed that keeping a gun in your home makes you safer because you can defend against robberies and the like.



-Mir

[Edited 2009-10-09 16:49:54 by srbmod]


7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineFr8Mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5418 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1592 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
But I would like to point out those who disbelieve that this is one of many reasons why people who keep firearms in their homes are three times as likely as those who do not to die of a firearm wound.

Doc, I don't doubt the statistic (at least as much as I don't doubt any other statistic   ), but I believe its use in an argument against keeping a gun in the home is a red herring. I mean, it's like saying someone with a driver's license is more likely to die in a car wreck then someone without it or a someone who rock climbs is more likely to die from a rock climbing accident than someone who doesn't climb.

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
This risk can be minimized by keeping your firearms in a locked cabinet, unloaded, with ammunition in a separate locked box (inside the cabinet is OK).

While it may minimize the risk, it also minimizes the utility of the firearm if its purpose (for that owner), is self defense in the case of home invasion. Agreed, that it does lower the risk of unauthorized use of the firearm, but would it have changed anything here? Who knows?

Glad to see the kids got away clean. From the story it appears they were in the house at the time of the shooting.

[Edited 2009-10-09 16:50:29 by srbmod]


When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineJetsGo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3083 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1536 times:

As sad as this story is, the lady is a moron plain and simple. I have a CCW and always carry. I am also a huge supporter of the second ammendment. However, I would never carry a weapon, concealed or not, to a childrens event such as a soccer game. Despite the fact Nevada law allows me to do so.

Thoughts and prayers with the innocent children. How horrible this must be for them...



Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
User currently offlineMSNDC9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1521 times:

She didn't stand a chance. Had she seen him coming she might have ended him...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/09/...m.dead/index.html?iref=mpstoryview


What a coward...

Just goes to show all you clowns who were quick to point your finger at her.... Or call her a moron...There's usually a reason to carry... Like her husband....

[Edited 2009-10-09 16:07:41]

User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1500 times:



Quoting MSNDC9 (Reply 15):

She's a moron for caring guns around children, that still stands IMO and I'm in favor of gun rights.

If you want to read about a moron, look here:

http://nationalgunrights.org/blog/?p=276



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1479 times:



Quoting Airport (Reply 2):
I find it interesting that FOX news doesn't bother showing this...gee, wonder why?

Gun-Rights Mom Killed in Apparent Murder-Suicide

Autopsy Reveals That Gun-Wielding Soccer Mom Was Shot by Husband During Video Chat

Wasn't that hard to find. Just like you're anti-Fox News BS.  sarcastic  I wonder why you don't research what you say, but thanks for letting us know right up front that you don't!  wave 


User currently offlineJohns624 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 923 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1471 times:



Quoting JetsGo (Reply 13):
However, I would never carry a weapon, concealed or not, to a childrens event such as a soccer game. Despite the fact Nevada law allows me to do so.

Why not? How do you know where you're going to need it?


User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8892 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1468 times:

The fortunate part is the children were spared. This was going to happen with or without her carrying a gun. She was not killed with her own gun which she obviously needed to carry. The unfortunate part was she did not kill the coward, she let here guard down, which happens most of the time. I seems that most underestimate their killer in domestic situations.


It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineFr8Mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5418 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1426 times:



Quoting JetsGo (Reply 13):
As sad as this story is, the lady is a moron plain and simple. I have a CCW and always carry. I am also a huge supporter of the second ammendment. However, I would never carry a weapon, concealed or not, to a childrens event such as a soccer game. Despite the fact Nevada law allows me to do so.

I'd counter that that's the time you should be carrying. If someone wanted to do harm to a bunch of kids, or a mom (or dad, for that matter), what better place than someplace with a bunch of kids? I just don't understand the mentality that says a responsible adult should not have a gun around kids.

I bristle that state law does not allow me to carry to my kids' schools. I obey the law, but will that rare, albeit unlikely person that wants to do harm at a school obey the law?

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 16):
Wasn't that hard to find.

To be fair, I looked for it right after the thread was started and it was nowhere to be found. Searched the victim's name and searched "soccer mom". The only hits were the original story back in November.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 15):
She's a moron for caring guns around children,

According to the links provided in reply 16, she had reason to carry. What a shame that she let her gaurd down, but that's what you do in your home.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1419 times:



Quoting PPVRA (Reply 15):
She's a moron for caring guns around children, that still stands IMO and I'm in favor of gun rights.

Care to explain how?


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