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SF-Oakland Bay Bridge Closed Indefinitely  
User currently offlineAirstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2732 posts, RR: 3
Posted (5 years 4 weeks ago) and read 3281 times:

They have closed the Bay Bridge indefinitely while Caltrans "engineers" ponder how that thar shiny piece fell plumb out; fahv minutes b'fore the evening COMM-yoot.

Are you losing faith (if, unlike me, you ever had any) in the safety of the Bay Area's transportation apparatus?

Every day I watch MUNI buses barrel through red lights; making pedestrians scurry (I'm not embellishing here; this actually happens at least three times a day at 1st & Market). MUNI drivers' union hammered out agreements whereby they're allowed to stay on the job after causing five injury accidents.

Now, the Bay Bridge is, apparently, unraveling. Closed due to the failure of something that was itself an "emergency repair" a month ago. (Did someone, a month ago, misread "emergency repair" for "emergency request" on the work order? As in, customer requests an emergency?)

And I don't wanna hear any "let's just be thankful no one was hurt." No kidding we're all thankful for that. It means Caltrans - and the commuters - are lucky. It doesn't mean the former isn't screwing up horrifyingly.


Pancakes are delicious.
95 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLH459 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 886 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 weeks ago) and read 3260 times:



Quoting Airstud (Thread starter):
Every day I watch MUNI buses barrel through red lights; making pedestrians scurry (I'm not embellishing here; this actually happens at least three times a day at 1st & Market).

Happens constantly at 3rd and Market as well. Believe it or not, I swear it was worse when I first arrived here 10 years ago. There was one driver in particular, easily identified because of the hat he wore, who consistently ran the light every time he came by. So, I can't say that I've ever had any faith in Muni. Not since my first day in SF. The road infrastructure, however, is another matter: I'm absolutely appalled by this turn of events! Of course, after years of delays and budget overruns on the whole Bay Bridge project, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.



"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11486 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3226 times:

This is a little hyperbolic, isn't it, saying "no more Bay Bridge?" I mean, the part that broke is still part of the span that is in the process of being replaced by the completely new span, is it not?


Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineLH459 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 886 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3219 times:



Quoting D L X (Reply 2):
the part that broke is still part of the span that is in the process of being replaced by the completely new span, is it not?

Correct.



"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
User currently offlineAirstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2732 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3211 times:

Closed indefinitely, that was my reference.

Also I don't believe the spec for the original eastern span was "to fall apart if repairs are ever attempted."

(This bridge will self destruct in [count] projects.)



Pancakes are delicious.
User currently offlineClemsonaj From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3171 times:

I don't know what the original design life of the Bay Brdige was, but it looks like we're creeping up on that time (the Bay Bridge is 70+ years old). Moisture and saline environments (Bay Area?) speed up the wear and tear on the exposed steel. Add to that damage sustained from earthquakes and constant heavy traffic and you get instances like this. It's probably a good thing that the eastern span is already in the process of being replaced.

User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3115 times:

I pretty much stopped reading when you put mocked the job title of Engineer.

CalTrans hires actual engineers, you know?


User currently offlineAirstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2732 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3107 times:

OK, I guess so.

But then how come the thingy came undone?!?!?!



Pancakes are delicious.
User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3094 times:



Quoting Airstud (Reply 7):
But then how come the thingy came undone?!?!?!

Cuz the other thingy wasn't on tight enough.



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2588 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3084 times:

Well, that's going to make the cross-bay commute a nightmare if it's not open come rush hour

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26709 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3075 times:



Quoting Airstud (Thread starter):
Now, the Bay Bridge is, apparently, unraveling. Closed due to the failure of something that was itself an "emergency repair" a month ago. (Did someone, a month ago, misread "emergency repair" for "emergency request" on the work order? As in, customer requests an emergency?)

Its an old bridge that is in the process of replacement. In fact, they should have done this work years ago, but Pete Wilson decided to pass the buck on a ton of major projects to pretend he had balanced the budget. In reality, all he did was make things more expensive for the future.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 6):

CalTrans hires actual engineers, you know?

Very good ones too. If CalTrans were a private engineering firm, they would probably be the best in the world.

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 8):


Quoting Airstud (Reply 7):
But then how come the thingy came undone?!?!?!

Cuz the other thingy wasn't on tight enough.

 rotfl  rotfl 

Quoting ER757 (Reply 9):
Well, that's going to make the cross-bay commute a nightmare if it's not open come rush hour

I think BART is going to see a few more riders for a while.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLH459 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 886 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3059 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
I think BART is going to see a few more riders for a while.

That is an understatement! My usual train was nearly 10 minutes late, and even more packed than normal. Many of the people on the train were not regular BART riders and had no idea how to behave on public transport (i.e. not blocking doors, moving into the train, etc.)  Angry



"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
User currently offlineChrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2162 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3019 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
In fact, they should have done this work years ago, but Pete Wilson decided to pass the buck on a ton of major projects to pretend he had balanced the budget.

It wasn't just Pete Wilson. It was those clowns in Bay Area politics. Good ole Willy Brown and his bizarre Yerba Buena Island plan delayed it. Jerry Brown, the Oakland Mayor, delayed it as well, when he thought the original plan (the single level, flat) was ugly and wouldn't make Oakland look good (HA HA HA).

Then the vote in 1998 where voters approved that nonbinding ballot measure to add rail lines (!!!) to the bridge. That would have removed something like 3 lanes of traffic on the suspension span.

But remember, there'll be a bike lane for the clowns on bikes who want to impede the traffic. Oh goodie.

I agree with you, this should have been finished +/- 10 years ago. As much as I love the Bay Area, I'm very glad I moved away more than 10 years ago.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26709 posts, RR: 75
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2998 times:



Quoting Chrisair (Reply 12):
Jerry Brown, the Oakland Mayor, delayed it as well, when he thought the original plan (the single level, flat) was ugly and wouldn't make Oakland look good (HA HA HA).

Actually, it was ugly and wouldn't just make Oakland look bad. It would also be a PITA for boat traffic. The planned bridge is fine, they just need to get it finished.

Quoting Chrisair (Reply 12):
Then the vote in 1998 where voters approved that nonbinding ballot measure to add rail lines (!!!) to the bridge. That would have removed something like 3 lanes of traffic on the suspension span.

You know, rail lines used to cross the Bay Bridge. Closed in 1958. It wouldn't be a bad idea, though BART has largely obviated the need for that.

Quoting Chrisair (Reply 12):

But remember, there'll be a bike lane for the clowns on bikes who want to impede the traffic.

They won't impede traffic. Hence the point of a lane. It is actually a good idea.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20204 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2950 times:

This is really bad for me because I live in the City but on Monday I will start a new job an hour across the bridge.

My commute SHOULD be about 45 minutes. Because of this closure, I now have to take the Golden Gate Bridge (meaning I have to meander through the City). So, until this is fixed, my commute will take twice as long. This means that I will spend my first few weeks on the job having to leave my house no later than 7:15 AM and I won't be home until at least 10PM after I'm done with swim practice.

Since the "switch" on the Bay Bridge, this is the third unplanned closure. The first was an extension of the "switch" period when a crack was found in the bridge and had to be fixed. The second was when a Safeway truck took the curve too quickly and blocked all westbound lanes. And this has been in the last two months.

It's my opinion that an unplanned infrastructure emergency like this should be declared a Federal Emergency and that every engineering corps in the country should be put to work on it. That bridge is San Francisco's aorta and without it, we're in major trouble.

But this bridge is starting to look like the 787.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):

You know, rail lines used to cross the Bay Bridge. Closed in 1958. It wouldn't be a bad idea, though BART has largely obviated the need for that.

Suspension bridges generally don't like trains. The trains tend to make the bridge bow downwards, so the train has to go "uphill" for the whole bridge.


User currently offlineAirstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2732 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2946 times:

Subway trains cross the Manhattan Bridge and the Villiamsboyg Bridge in New York, which are suspension bridges.

And PATCO trains cross the Ben Franklin Bridge in Philamadelphia.

(Streetcars crossed the Brooklyn Bridge when it first opened.)

Hey was there ever any streetcar/train traffic on the Triboro or George Washington bridges when they opened?



Pancakes are delicious.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40014 posts, RR: 74
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2935 times:



Quoting Airstud (Thread starter):
Every day I watch MUNI buses barrel through red lights; making pedestrians scurry (I'm not embellishing here; this actually happens at least three times a day at 1st & Market).

Yes you are embellishing here. As much as I HATE MUNI (it's well documented here), that is something I almost never see. I always get drivers that stop at green lights and never go through intersections when the light has been green for awhile.
Our MUNI drivers are the slowest I've ever seen. I would love to get a driver that is fast. That rarely happens but it seems like Airliners.net members besides me gets those drivers.  confused 

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 6):
I pretty much stopped reading when you put mocked the job title of Engineer.

I was thinking the same.

Quoting Airstud (Reply 7):
But then how come the thingy came undone?!?!?!

$h!t happens.
How come airplanes crash sometime?
How often has cables snapped on the Bay Bridge?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
In fact, they should have done this work years ago, but Pete Wilson decided to pass the buck on a ton of major projects to pretend he had balanced the budget. In reality, all he did was make things more expensive for the future.

That is partially true.

Quoting Chrisair (Reply 12):
It wasn't just Pete Wilson. It was those clowns in Bay Area politics. Good ole Willy Brown and his bizarre Yerba Buena Island plan delayed it. Jerry Brown, the Oakland Mayor, delayed it as well, when he thought the original plan (the single level, flat) was ugly and wouldn't make Oakland look good (HA HA HA).

Then the vote in 1998 where voters approved that nonbinding ballot measure to add rail lines (!!!) to the bridge. That would have removed something like 3 lanes of traffic on the suspension span.

But remember, there'll be a bike lane for the clowns on bikes who want to impede the traffic. Oh goodie.

 checkmark 
Frikkin' environmentalist helped delay the process in fixing the Bay Bridge. These worthless environmentalist has to have a say in everything in local politics and they will block any new projects that exclusively benefits motorist.
On top of that, one of our worthless majors Art Agnos is responsible for the removal of the Embarcadero Freeway. He wanted CalTrans to build a freeway that was 100% seismically safe which is not possible.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
They won't impede traffic. Hence the point of a lane. It is actually a good idea.

As long as their lane isn't at the expense of lanes for cars.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
But this bridge is starting to look like the 787.

Sad but true.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineAirstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2732 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2922 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
Quoting Airstud (Thread starter):
Every day I watch MUNI buses barrel through red lights; making pedestrians scurry (I'm not embellishing here; this actually happens at least three times a day at 1st & Market).

Yes you are embellishing here.

'Scuse me; do you work at 1st & Market?

I cross that intersection several times each workday and I don't recall a day when I didn't see a MUNI bus barrelling through a red (not yellow; but rather, red) light.

Unless you've got a series 8-hour videos of the weekday traffic through that intersection, somehow "disproving" that which I have witnessed in person, you cain't be tellin' me that I'm embellishing anything.

Also: did Mayor Agnos remove the Embarc Freeway? 'Cause I thought the earthquake did that...



Pancakes are delicious.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40014 posts, RR: 74
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2910 times:

Quoting Airstud (Reply 17):
'Scuse me; do you work at 1st & Market?

Used to work 1 block from there and walked through that intersection all the time. Still do actually. It's not even possible for a bus or even a car to build up enough speed to go "barrelling" through that intersection. Those blocks are very short and a driver would have to floor it from the next block over to reach a high speed. Our drivers may be stupid but they aren't that stupid.
Sorry but I don't cut pedestrians in the city any slack. San Francisco has the dumbest pedestrians I have ever seen! People cross intersections without looking both ways first. That is something that is taught to EVERY Kindergartner.

Quoting Airstud (Reply 17):
Also: did Mayor Agnos remove the Embarc Freeway? 'Cause I thought the earthquake did that...

The earthquake damaged the Embarcadero freeway and our stupid mayor at the time ask CalTrans to rebuild a freeway that was 100% seismically safe which is not possible.

[Edited 2009-10-28 17:10:41]


Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineMham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3692 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2898 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
The earthquake damaged the Embarcadero freeway and our stupid mayor at the time ask CalTran to rebuild a freeway that was 100% seismically safe which is not possible.

Absolutely incredible. Has to be the only city in the country that can't build a through highway. HWY 101 on surface streets??? Amazing. The city that can't. I avoid the place like the plague.


User currently offlineChrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2162 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2893 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
Actually, it was ugly and wouldn't just make Oakland look bad. It would also be a PITA for boat traffic. The planned bridge is fine, they just need to get it finished.

It was hideous, yes. But to be quite honest, the 5-6 year delay in deciding what to do to make it "look good" was ridiculous. It also caused the price tag to skyrocket. You folks who wanted it to "look pretty" are now responsible for the $4 tolls (soon to be $5). As someone who uses it routinely when in town for work, I say thanks. I'm glad I don't live there.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
You know, rail lines used to cross the Bay Bridge. Closed in 1958. It wouldn't be a bad idea, though BART has largely obviated the need for that.

Yes. That was when trucks had the bottom lanes, plus a rail line. Two lanes each way on the upper deck. But what's the point? These folks wanted to run CalTrain over the bridge. No need. BART does the job good enough. Although being in the tube in an earthquake is one of my biggest fears. Add the cantilever section of the Bay Bridge to that list now, too.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
On top of that, one of our worthless majors Art Agnos is responsible for the removal of the Embarcadero Freeway.



Quoting Airstud (Reply 17):
Also: did Mayor Agnos remove the Embarc Freeway? 'Cause I thought the earthquake did that...

It actually started in the mid-80s with Mayor Feinstein. She wanted it gone with a couple board of supervisors members. The ballot measures were defeated. After the 89 earthquake, Agnos just helped move it along and I remember him grandstanding for the TV cameras with a hammer and pounding away on the deck. The freeway was damaged, but I don't think it was heavily damaged like the Cypress Freeway. It was closed after the earthquake, I know that.

The problem with the Embarcadero Freeway was that it didn't do anything. It just sorta ended halfway down the Embarcadero. I believe the original plan was to extend it to the Golden Gate Bridge, but that never materialized. I vaguely remember the freeway coming to an abrupt, and unfinished end at the North Beach off ramp. As anyone who has sat on 19th (like I did last week) at 5p on a Friday, it's a nightmare. They desperately need a freeway to connect the GGB and the Bay Bridge/80/101. If only 19th was a freeway....

FWIW, I think getting rid of the Embarcadero Freeway was the best thing SF did. I really do. I remember going downtown in the late 80s/early 90s before it came down and you never could get to the Piers easily. It was dingy and dirty around there.

Go over there now and you'll hardly recognize the place. It's beautiful. Parking is outrageous, but you can at least be surrounded by beauty when you're paying $6.00 to park for 90 minutes at Noon on a Friday. (F You Newsom for your 'congestion parking fees').

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
They won't impede traffic. Hence the point of a lane. It is actually a good idea.

Where will they go once they get to Treasure Island?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
But this bridge is starting to look like the 787.

This bridge will be finished before the 787.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40014 posts, RR: 74
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2872 times:

Quoting Chrisair (Reply 20):
Yes. That was when trucks had the bottom lanes, plus a rail line. Two lanes each way on the upper deck. But what's the point?

Also there weren't as many drivers and the Bay Area wasn't as populated back then either.

Quoting Chrisair (Reply 20):
These folks wanted to run CalTrain over the bridge.

Our local politicians rather consult with environmentalist and angry bicyclist instead of engineers when it comes to building a bridge.

Quoting Chrisair (Reply 20):
It actually started in the mid-80s with Mayor Feinstein. She wanted it gone with a couple board of supervisors members. The ballot measures were defeated.

I heard she was a crappy mayor but she did turn out to be a decent US Senator.

Quoting Chrisair (Reply 20):
Agnos just helped move it along and I remember him grandstanding for the TV cameras with a hammer and pounding away on the deck.

What a total jerk!

Quoting Chrisair (Reply 20):
The problem with the Embarcadero Freeway was that it didn't do anything. It just sorta ended halfway down the Embarcadero. I believe the original plan was to extend it to the Golden Gate Bridge, but that never materialized. I vaguely remember the freeway coming to an abrupt, and unfinished end at the North Beach off ramp. As anyone who has sat on 19th (like I did last week) at 5p on a Friday, it's a nightmare. They desperately need a freeway to connect the GGB and the Bay Bridge/80/101. If only 19th was a freeway....

FWIW, I think getting rid of the Embarcadero Freeway was the best thing SF did. I really do.

I know I am in the minority on this but I think it looked better with the Embarcadero Freeway. When looking at the skyline from Treasure Island, the double-decker freeway looks like a bow wrapped around the skyscrapers.
Also it was very convenient for those in going to & from North Beach on to the Bay Bridge and Peninsula. Now you have to sit in traffic, sit through tons of red lights, get held up by angry protesters, flicked off by angry cyclist and occasional wad of spit by panhandlers.
The new 'beautiful' water front and remodeled Ferry Building is full of shops that hardly anyone can afford to shop at. Most expensive boutiques, expensive parking and slower traffic is just what this city needs.  

Quoting Chrisair (Reply 20):
Where will they go once they get to Treasure Island?

Are you using your brain again?  
I guarantee you, if these smelly, speed-addicted bicyclist get their way, they will complain and protest until they take away a few more lanes on the western span of the Bay Bridge.




View Large View Medium
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Photo © The Douglas Aircraft Company (Jammy Lee)



[Edited 2009-10-28 17:37:56]


Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9262 posts, RR: 21
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2867 times:



Quoting Airstud (Reply 15):
And PATCO trains cross the Ben Franklin Bridge in Philamadelphia.

Yep. I've been on that bridge. I've driven across it and I've taken the PATCO line. I think multimodal bridges (Ben Franklin, Manhattan, Williamsburg) are neat considering they provide travel for at least 2 modes of transportation.

Regarding the environmentalists. They are everywhere, but I would have to say that CA has far more per capita than just about anywhere else. Perhaps they overdid the whole hippy garbage...?

 Wink  duck 



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40014 posts, RR: 74
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2847 times:



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 22):
Regarding the environmentalists. They are everywhere, but I would have to say that CA has far more per capita than just about anywhere else.

There aren't enough sane, level-headed people to put them in check. Sadly, too many people have bought in to the is 'green' movement. Lot's of regular people have been suckered and suffer from eco-guilt.
I know Pen & Teller did a special on this. Read up more on this. I don't want the thread to drift any further.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineAirstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2732 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2841 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
Our drivers may be stupid but they aren't that stupid.

Actually, they are. As I've multi-said, I've seen it.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
Sorry but I don't cut pedestrians in the city any slack. San Francisco has the dumbest pedestrians I have ever seen! People cross intersections without looking both ways first. That is something that is taught to EVERY Kindergartner.

And I'm talking about people who have done precisely that, and are in the crosswalk, WITH PERMISSION FROM THE SIGNAL. If that's your idea of "the dumbest pedestrians" then I don't know what to tell you...

Quoting Chrisair (Reply 20):
Where will they go once they get to Treasure Island?

Wherever on Treasure and Yerba Buena islands they want to!!!



Pancakes are delicious.
25 GQfluffy : If you trust your life to a series of lights on a street signal without looking...well...you get whatever is coming to you. The idea of the new bridg
26 Lincoln : I would beleive that "whatever is coming to you" would be a rather large settlement check from someone's insurance company. Generally hitting pedestr
27 Superfly : Amen to that! Your quote should go up on billboards all over this town! A check to your relatives because you won't be alive to collect anything. Eve
28 WarRI1 : These are the times, that I am glad that I live in little old Rhode Island. Probably more people cross that body of water in a day than we have in the
29 Chrisair : ~250,000 people cross the Bay Bridge daily. Often times at about 5pm it feels like there's about 250,000 people crossing at once. In your direction.
30 WarRI1 : Well, certainly in one week, they exceed our entire population,
31 MarSciGuy : LMAO...such things happen...having worked aboard a survey vessel, it seemed like things went awry immediately after we seemed to be getting on a roll
32 WarRI1 : It do make a difference. In this case as in sex, size does matter.
33 Superfly : I don't like the idea of dropping traffic jams down to street level. It has made the city more of a pristine dollhouse which I am not a fan of. The E
34 Johnboy : I think bicycle lanes on the western span of the Bay Bridge makes perfect sense.
35 DocLightning : Which, I'm sure makes you feel all lovely, warm, and fuzzy inside when you're paralyzed from the neck down and can't even scratch your own itching no
36 Myt332 : I've got some questions about the BART. First of all why does is smell like a rancid charter plane from the 1990's? Is it because of the cloth seats?
37 LTBEWR : This bridge system is unlike any other in the world in it's design and faces issues that really challenge it including earthquakes. It is probably wel
38 STT757 : The George Washington Bridge when originally opened in 1931 had one level for cars, it was designed to accommodate a lower level for a subway from NY
39 PHLBOS : Actually, for roughly during a 6-month period in 1986 when the Mount Hope Bridge (linking Bristol to Portsmouth, RI) was closed for a major overhaul;
40 Superfly : Only if a 3rd. deck was added underneath the lower deck specifically for pedestrians. Stinky, smelly homeless bums. Bingo! There was supposed to be a
41 N1120A : It won't be. Actually, I believe the new bridge is supposed to be wider. That eyesore should have never been there in the first place. Trains ran on
42 StuckInCA : Sigh. Somebody steal your bike from you when you were a kid? It's funny how people complain when cyclists try to get bike lanes included in planning,
43 Superfly : I am a cyclist myself but I don't agree with the bicycle activist. It's not a viable transportation alternative. I'll ride short trips to the store a
44 DocLightning : Yeah. The lack of any way of quickly getting from 101 to 101 is really frustrating. Something needs to be built to remove the need to spend up to an
45 Superfly : City Hall's solution would be to ride MUNI, bicycles and give up our cars. Our local elected officials have abandoned motorist. The original intersta
46 Post contains links and images Aaron747 : That's positively nuts. Completely different waterfront and traffic patterns. You can't just take a slice out of one of the busiest sections of I-95.
47 Superfly : I meant the plan from the 1950s. One thing that should have went through was the Southern Crossing bridge.
48 N1120A : Public transportation is a good thing, not a bad thing. Not the least of which because it makes driving better for all of us. Luckily, Beverly Hills
49 PHLBOS : I completely agree with you 100% and thankfully, when Center City District Paul Levy suggest similar about 10 years ago; PennDOT shot him down (and r
50 Chrisair : I thought they had it approved all the way to the GGB, but once they started building it, people started complaining. They should have stuck it under
51 N1120A : I believe the whole bridge is being redone, not just the Oakland side.
52 Airstud : That's news to me ... what are the plans for the western span?
53 N1120A : Ah, NM. Only the Eastern Span, but bikes will only be allowed on the Eastern Span.
54 GQfluffy : With all the work they did on the west side the last few years, I don't think they're replacing it. EDIT- err...what you said.[Edited 2009-10-29 19:1
55 ExFATboy : Wow, that's gotta be a traffic nightmare. I lived in San Francisco at the time of the World Series Earthquake, and remember what it was like, between
56 Airstud : Quoth Tina Fey: It will completely revolutionize the way people get hit by cars.
57 N1120A : I don't know of many (any?) other states that actually charge regular sales tax on gas.
58 MarSciGuy : lol...yeah....leaving that one alone...
59 DocLightning : Only the Eastern span is being replaced. The iconic Western span has been retrofitted.
60 Superfly : No argument from me on that one. Keep in mind, those same NIMBY's fought BART coming in to their neighborhoods also. That is totally insane! ...and t
61 DocLightning : I hear rumors that they'd like to have it open by tomorrow morning, but probably too late for the commute.
62 Aaron747 : They started building it from the out in - the Transbay terminal ramps off the bridge and 480 ramps to the Embarcadero viaduct started going up the s
63 DocLightning : I agree. But public transportation in the Bay Area either can't get me where I want to go or takes so long to do so (3-4 times as long as driving and
64 N1120A : Actually, that wasn't the delay. You can blame Arnie and the anti-progress GOP for this, along with much of the rest of the State's budget issues. Th
65 Mham001 : Spoken like a typical SF-centric. Vast majority of the region does not live within San Francisco borders. For a traveler to pass north-south and be f
66 DocLightning : Hah. I'd love to see anyone build anything of substance in this country anymore. Between the 15 environmental studies and the NIMBYs, it amazes me th
67 GQfluffy : The US is losing the capability, and it's not because of the lack of know-how, the lack of engineering, or the lack of will-power. Why is it happening
68 Superfly : Neither does N1120A. I wholeheartedly agree! That is something I think about all the time. I was talking about this with one of your friends at last
69 Airstud : HEY! StuckinCA taught me a lesson after I put the word engineers in quotation marks in my OP. (So, kinda couldn't use the same marks presently...) Is
70 GQfluffy : I would assume so, because the western span is perfectly fine.
71 PHLBOS : Bold emphasis added: Are you German?
72 Airstud : Western span open only so Treasure Island dudes can access their homes. CHP is requiring "proof of residency." I guess this means folk can't just bop
73 Superfly : Huh? What are your trying to say exactly here. Not sure why you're bringing race in to this discussion. The engineering department at my school is ov
74 Chrisair : Great history lesson. Thanks. Is this strip that park between San Vicente and the west end Santa Monica Blvd where it turns into Beverly Blvd? If so,
75 DocLightning : The Safeway truck. It was a closure related to the redesign of the bridge. Truck too the turn too fast and flipped. It was, in part, a consequence of
76 Airstud : Obviously, the company that owned the truck is not appropriately named.
77 N1120A : I don't see how you are more afraid of the safe one than the poorly engineered, unsafe option. I'm not saying it is ideal now, I am saying it is the
78 DocLightning : So now they're saying that they'd like to get it done this weekend, but that it might be closed into Monday. This means that my normally 45-minute com
79 Chrisair : A fear of being in a tube, under water. Simple as that. My friend grew up in Fairfield. Up off Rockville Road in Green Valley. It's pretty out there.
80 DocLightning : I'm beginning to fear it could be a matter of more than a week.
81 Airstud : I LOVE the ho-hum tone of the final sentence in this report: A carjacking suspect was arrested Friday night after he led police on a high-speed chase
82 DocLightning : Well, they say the repairs are complete and they're currently testing the repairs. I'm praying that it opens today, or I have a 1.5 hour commute to wo
83 Airstud : And now Channel 5 officially reports the bridge will not be open for tomorrow's am commute. Which means my BART train will be crowded-like, yet again,
84 DocLightning : I don't see why they don't understand that now I will have to take the 280 to 19th and go up to the Golden Gate, and across. God, this is going to su
85 Airstud : My original title for this thread, "No more Bay Bridge," is starting to seem much less hyperbolic...
86 Superfly : Avoid 19th. avenue if you can. It's a parking lot, especially near Stonestown Mall. Try to take Sunset bl. or the Great Highway. Much, much faster. A
87 GQfluffy : Your sense of entitlement was amusing at first. Frankly, now, it's annoying. The fact that the eastern span is still closed, and that Caltrans is fai
88 Airstud : Caltrans just officially said the bridge "passed all tests with flying colors" and will be open by 9am PST.[Edited 2009-11-02 08:50:12]
89 Post contains links GQfluffy : http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...i?f=/c/a/2009/11/02/BAV81ADVCG.DTL "After fixing the tie-rods and bracket assembly last week, work crews perfor
90 PHLBOS : I believe that would be 9am PST. Most of us turned our clocks back an hour this past weekend.
91 WestWing : Bridge is now open, carrying traffic. We can delete "indefinitely" from this thread's topic title.
92 DocLightning : It was amazing. Within an hour, the entire region's traffic map turned green (admittedly, the fact that it got to be 10AM probably helped that happen
93 Airstud : Sooorrrrrrrr-yyyyyy. State officials have admitted they didn't do it right. Additional closures for repairs not out of the question.
94 PHLBOS : WAY TMI !
95 GQfluffy : Like I said a few posts back...it's going to fail again...and soon. There isn't a repair known to man that will hold more than a few months with as m
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