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New Jersey And Virginia...  
User currently offlineSCCutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5521 posts, RR: 28
Posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2352 times:

...as I drove into work this morning, the announcer on NPR was observing that these two high-profile gubernatorial races were "very important" to President Obama, and that the President had been making significant efforts to assist the Democrat Party's candidates in each state.

It now looks like both states have switched from D to R, including unseating New Jersey's incumbent, Gov. Corzine.

Discuss...


...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
97 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJCS17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 38
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2343 times:

I'm very heartbroken despite the huge wins (especially in NJ). I simply cannot express my disappointment enough. This should've been an easy 3-0 sweep, an easy empty net goal...

NY-23 is about to be lost, which is simply a killer, and should be blamed on the NYGOP, GOP, Dede, and RNCC.

Simply heartbreaking.



America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29800 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2339 times:

Congratulations to the voters of New Jersey and Virginia in choose the good side of the force rather then continueing this nations slide into the dark side.

As the shine continues to be removed from our president and our frankly evil congress, I can only hope for more republican victories.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39887 posts, RR: 74
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2324 times:



Quoting SCCutler (Thread starter):
...as I drove into work this morning, the announcer on NPR was observing that these two high-profile gubernatorial races were "very important" to President Obama,

Not sure why they would say that.
New Jersey and Virginia off-year gubernatorial races have gone against the party of newly elected Presidents before. Happened in 1993 to Clinton and in 2001 to Bush.
Both Presidents served two-terms.
Not sure why it would be any different for President Obama.
Jon Corzine has been unpopular for several years now.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2317 times:

Greensboro, NC elected a Republican mayor, voting out the incumbent Democrat after only one term. Interesting thing is Greensboro is usually a very heavy liberal/Democratic city.

Hopefully all signs of positive change to come in 2010.  Smile


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8902 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2310 times:



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 1):
NY-23 is about to be lost, which is simply a killer, and should be blamed on the NYGOP, GOP, Dede, and RNCC.

Agree...shame that it looks like NY-23 is going to be going blue. Dede should have never been nominated...

Glad that the governorships of NJ and VA went back to Republican control. Hopefully this is a foreshadowing to 2010 and Republicans can at least wrestle back some seats in the Senate and make it a bit tougher for the Democrats. Would be great if Harry can be one of those seats that goes to the Republicans. A very good day for the Republicans though, and it seems that Saint Barack's luster is waning a bit...


User currently offlineYellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2299 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
Not sure why they would say that.

Nate Silver posted an interesting graph over at 538.com, which plotted each state's Obama vote against its vote for the Democratic gubernatorial candidate last time around. There is essentially no correlation between the two.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/...natorial-races-poor-yardstick.html



Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2296 times:



Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
Congratulations to the voters of New Jersey and Virginia in choose the good side of the force rather then continueing this nations slide into the dark side.



Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
As the shine continues to be removed from our president and our frankly evil congress, I can only hope for more republican victories.

At least you called him "our president", so you're making progress.

Those two states have made their calls. Congrats to all those who voted. Off-year elections usually go to the minority party, and this year is no different. A year from now? Who knows? None of us do.

Sometimes, the best thing for any adminstration is a smack across the nose like this. It's part of the political process. It isn't the death of the Obama Adminsitration, and, sorry Republicans, unless you can find someone useful to run in '12, the President is still odds-on-favorite to win again.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29800 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2272 times:

1. Who uses a Star Trek gif to put down some body making a Star Wars reference? Why would you do that???


2.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
Sometimes, the best thing for any adminstration is a smack across the nose like this.

Unless he does at least a 120 degree turn on most of his issues, this is going to play into 2010. Which is one of the reasons why they are rushing the health care takeover by the federal government, They don't want to do it too close to the mid-terms.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineJpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4389 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2241 times:



Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
Congratulations to the voters of New Jersey and Virginia in choose the good side of the force rather then continueing this nations slide into the dark side.

Are you talking about the 2008 election?  Confused



In all seriousness... what would make you call electing these Republican governors, 'the good side'? The partisanship is just really ridiculous these days. I've voted for plenty Republican and Democrat state officials. That mindset is just astounding really.



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineNkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2665 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2209 times:

Speaking as a NJ resident.... while Obama was here as late as last week campaigning for Corzine, I believe Christie (R) winning has more to do with NJ residents being sick of the highest property taxes in the country, our highest unemployment rate in 33 years, and one of the highest car insurance rates in the country. I don't think Corzine losing is as much of a reflection on Obama as people make it out to be, but more about the local issues in the state.

I look at it this way, can it really get that much worse!!...

I do think that the Republicans sweeping the 3 offices in Va. are more of a message to DC than NJ.



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11357 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2203 times:

GOP fan-boys should stop drooling over the win in Virginia for one simple reason: people voted here for McDonnell while also expressing their support for Obama. Obama still has a 60+% approval rate in Virginia, according to exit polling. So you can stop thinking that this was a repudiation of Obama right now. That is, if you're going to be intellectually honest. (A huge assumption, I know.)

Virginians are smart people - we vote for the better candidate (usually), regardless of party.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13115 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2203 times:

In New Jersey it was 49% Christie (R), 45% Corzine (D) and Daggert (I) 6%. That is a significant margin by modern standards for the winning canidate in a major election and Daggert probaby took more votes from Christie than from Corzine.
In NJ and elsewhere where we saw Republicans winning even over incumbant Democrats or some Democrats winning with narrower margins, the economy, especially lost jobs and increasing and too high state local taxes (especially property taxes in NJ) were the overwhelming issues. In some cases local factors came into play. In NJ, the arrest of about 40 Democratic politcans (vs. 1 Republican) deeply hurt the Democrats. In the NY State 23rd Congressional district, you had infighting in the Republicans that split the vote and encouraged an established and moderate Democrat to win (special election to replace a Congressman who is now in the President's Cabinet). Virginia's Governship
Another factor on a National basis some commentators have made is that the losers or near-losers generally ran negative ads on the person of the Republican instead of pushing positive issues. Republicans could bash back instead playing up the Democrats as having increased taxes and not cut spending enough.
By the way, as has overwhelmingly happened in the past, Maine voters substantully rejected to legalize same-gender marriage.
I would also would note that the winning Republicans were geneally 'centerists', hard core Conservatives especially social conservatives didn't really gain. Problem is that the Republicans and especially the so-called Conservative wings may overplay the results for Republcans on larger, national issues, such as dealing with health care, tax policies, contiuing polices in Iraq & Afganistan.


User currently offlineElite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2803 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2200 times:

Congratulations to New Jersey and Virginia... the Republicans there both won with wide margins, and hopefully this is a turn of the tide for the Grand Old Party.

User currently offlineNkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2665 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2199 times:



Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
So you can stop thinking that this was a repudiation of Obama right now. That is, if you're going to be intellectually honest. (A huge assumption, I know.)

Not according to FoxNews, and we all know they are as neutral as it comes!!  Big grin

(that was sarcasm!!)



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineElite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2803 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2198 times:



Quoting Nkops (Reply 14):
Not according to FoxNews

They put a question mark on that, and they have a poll going. It's not like they blatantly said it.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/...publican-victory-referendum-obama/


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21637 posts, RR: 55
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2194 times:



Quoting Elite (Reply 15):
They put a question mark on that, and they have a poll going. It's not like they blatantly said it.

It's only 7am on the day after election day. Give them time, and they will.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineElite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2803 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2192 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 16):

It's only 7am on the day after election day. Give them time, and they will.

Perhaps as an op-ed, but they won't report it as actual news.


User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2164 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
Not sure why they would say that.

Perhaps because he made at least 3 trips to NJ in the past two weeks. That's called investing political capital. Tied up EWR royally each and every time too. Shame we can't charge the WH for the gas he made at least one airline waste in fuel holding while he landed and left.

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 5):
Would be great if Harry can be one of those seats that goes to the Republicans.

The way he is polling that is not such a far fetched idea.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
At least you called him "our president", so you're making progress.

A level a lot of democrats never progressed to in the last administration.


NJ was local all the way. As noted high property taxes, car insurance rates, and unemployment had more to do with the democrats loss. The President, and his people, evidently never read the signals that the population was sending. If they had they would have stayed away realizing that Corzine had already cut his own throat politically.

VA same thing. The GOP candidate just had a better message.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 1):
NY-23 is about to be lost, which is simply a killer, and should be blamed on the NYGOP, GOP, Dede, and RNCC.

Absolutely and it ought to be as much of a wake up call to the RNC leadership as the losses of NJ and VA ought to be to the DNC leadership.

One thing this will do is give the blue dogs pause when it comes to voting for the final health care bill depending on how it looks. Last years idea that the GOP was adrift in the wilderness and wouldn't win anything anytime soon has just been deflated just as the same charge about the democratic party after 2004 was.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21637 posts, RR: 55
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2157 times:

Forgot to bring up this one:

Quoting Nkops (Reply 10):
one of the highest car insurance rates in the country

Maybe some better road signage would help that. I can't count the number of times I've been driving on a New Jersey highway and the lane I'm in abruptly ends without warning, forcing me to merge into the lane adjacent, which is of course occupied by a line of cars whose drivers have no intention of giving me the room to do so.  gnasher  At least other states have discovered those yellow signs with "LANE ENDS IN 2000 FEET" on them. [/rant]

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11659 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2108 times:



Quoting Elite (Reply 13):
the Republicans there both won with wide margins, and hopefully this is a turn of the tide for the Grand Old Party.

I don't understand something. There are 435 members of the House, 100 members of the Senate and 48 other governers. How can THREE races out of a total of 585 mean "the tide is turning for the GOP and against Obama?" How can THREE racess be a "mandate" against what Obama and/or the Democratic party is doing? Remember in W second term, the mid-term elections? When the tide definately turned where the Dems gained a slim majority? THAT was a mandate. Two governerships and one house district is not. Explain to me, again, how the governer if of significance on a national level?



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineYellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2092 times:



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 20):
How can THREE races out of a total of 585 mean "the tide is turning for the GOP and against Obama?"

Because the news media likes to hear itself talk. And if you give them only 3 races to discuss, they'll talk about those three just as loudly as if they were discussing all 435 + 33 seats in a even-year election.



Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
User currently offlineNKOPS From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2665 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2061 times:



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 20):
How can THREE races out of a total of 585 mean "the tide is turning for the GOP and against Obama?"

It doesn't .. I can't speak for Virginia, but as a NJ resident, I voted because of local issues, not because of the way I feel about Obama. If Corzine would have said "I will cut property taxes by 1/3 or 1/2", I would have voted for him. I voted for who I think is going to help me keep food on the table, not because I don't like someone in DC.



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6816 posts, RR: 34
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2050 times:



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 1):
This should've been an easy 3-0 sweep, an easy empty net goal...

Well, considering Hoffman was grossly outspent and didn’t have the ground team, it’s not surprising. But the absent candidate woman got 5% of the vote, and he still made it competitive! What IS encouraging, and I think this is symbolically more important than the NJ and VA gubernatorial victories for the Republicans, is that the message of CONSERVATISM, unabashed and unashamed, was not only viable, but worked.

The RINOs have been exposed and even after the disastrous McCain campaign, the Republican party still hasn’t had its “night of long knives” as it were. There still needs to be a purging. Gingrich supported Scuzzy, which was a ridiculous position to take, even as a compromise. Ideology DOES mean something, and yes, all politics is local—the conservative message IS the big tent everyone talks about, but there’s no standard bearer and the argument has been too slanted for too long.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
Off-year elections usually go to the minority party, and this year is no different. A year from now? Who knows? None of us do.

Good points. Reagan got thumped hard in his midterm elections, before the economic turnaround took root and flowered. It’s not uncommon at all.

What IS different from before, and the challenge is maintaining it, is the outrage, the grass roots restlessness, the clear angst in America that is rejecting an administration that has overreached with a statist agenda and has done so with dominant control over both Houses. We shall see what happens. But I know that conservatives, lovers of liberty and independents everywhere are elated today to have a sign of a burgeoning movement for liberty showing signs of fruition.


User currently offlineJpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4389 posts, RR: 29
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2046 times:



Quoting Slider (Reply 23):
But I know that conservatives, lovers of liberty and independents everywhere are elated today to have a sign of a burgeoning movement for liberty showing signs of fruition.

You're serious?



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
25 Seb146 : Look at it this way: Oregon has elections for governer in the mid-term. That is, Bush41 was elected in 1988, Barbara Roberts (D) was elected in 1990
26 Superfly : God himself couldn't save Corzine. He was unpopular years before Obama was elected President. I am sure Obama is still very popular in New Jersey and
27 Slider : Your deliberate attempt at sarcasm aside, quite serious. Ron Paul really fanned some flames and did a great job reviving some of the conservative mov
28 Tommy767 : I honestly don't think that the wins in NJ and VA really tie into how voters feel about the Obama White House. Corzine was seriously a crook and it wa
29 Nkops : Aren't most NJ governors!!
30 Seb146 : My apologies. I usually point out the difference between when I am addressing one person and when I am talking about a group in general. In my post 2
31 Slider : Copy that. no worries!
32 FlyPNS1 : The problem though is that the conservative federalist approach does fail in many areas. When it comes time to building schools, building roads, prov
33 STT757 : The whole no left turn thing confuses many out of state drivers, they cannot contemplate the fact that to turn left in New Jersey you turn right into
34 PSA727 : Well, I did my part here in VA to give the GOP a landslide victory yesterday. The GOP won all 3 of the executive positions (which I believe only happ
35 D L X : Strange, since the Governor of Virginia has little to do with stimulus, health care, and Afghanistan...
36 Tommy767 : Not a crook in the typical sense that "he stole" but more in the sense of ripping taxpayers off. Yes the man is VERY wealthy and a shrewd businessman
37 Falcon84 : A level most Republicans haven't progressed to during the last two Democratic adminstrations. I'm sure L-188 just had a slip of the tongue there. Ser
38 Post contains links Ken777 : Interesting point made in a NY Times article on Gov Elect Christie: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/nyregion/05christie.html?hp Sort of like Obama a
39 WarRI1 : I commend your good sense about our problem with Congress, now if we could only convince more of the people about these crooks and scoundrels. Term L
40 Falcon84 : What is needed is a grass-roots effort to convince voters in every state that term limits, and dumping every incumbent out of there will only improve
41 WarRI1 : I have been doing that along with my immediate family, we do not care about party, we vote against the incumbent. It sure has not worked here. Sad to
42 Ken777 : The problem with limiting time in Congress is that it denies a state or district the right to elect who they want to serve them. And at times there ar
43 DXing : Yet President Obama thought he could, what's that tell you? He would do well to pay attention to the exit polls that put the economy way over health
44 Superfly : More like doing a friend a favor a guess. Not sure what powers Governor Corzine would have over a federal health care system.
45 STT757 : You're back peddling, you called him a "crook" as if he took all that tax money and stuffed it into his own pockets. He took that tax money and spent
46 Seb146 : I like what Thom Hartman said yesterday: it was something along the lines of "we already have term limits: they are called elections" meaning that ev
47 Ken777 : As this election has shown, voters don't want excuses, or even very valid reasons. And, to be honest, the Democratic Senators haven't been giving Oba
48 DXing : One word describes it. Narcissism. Plenty. LIke all the Governors he could refuse to idley accept the federal governments plan to make the States pay
49 Yellowstone : So when President Bush made appearances at campaign events for fellow Republicans, was that also narcissism?
50 Ken777 : It doesn't matter, voters these days want instant gratification and not an excuse or (as I noted) a valid reason for not being satisfied 30 days afte
51 Slider : How is that exactly? Perhaps you can elaborate on what those failings would be.
52 FlyPNS1 : The failing is that a traditional, conservative approach relies on the free market to provide goods. The free market will naturally want to provide a
53 Tommy767 : And you have to ask yourself in the last four years was there even a whole lot of progress made? Corzine's stance on education was no different than
54 WarRI1 : That is what astounds me, this identifcation with our suppressors so to speak, is the Stockholm Syndrome at work here?
55 Texan : The Dems did not have a strong candidate in Virginia and Corzine is a crook. I am not disappointed about the losses. Why would I rather have a bad Dem
56 Seb146 : I don't think that is quite it. People are fed up with Congress all the time, no matter who is in power. But, people always seem to be fed up with th
57 Tommy767 : And I guess he could still be considered a crook since corzine used $54,000 of taxpayer money to cover up the e-mails between himself and Carla Katz.
58 WarRI1 : That tells me that the people are not aware of who is voting for what. It is not easy keeping track here. Big vote results maybe published, not many
59 STT757 : That I agree with, but the problem is that after 3 years and one day teachers in the State of New Jersey have tenure. So unless they hit a kid or try
60 STT757 : I hate Rutgers, I went to a private school (Monmouth University). Unless that money went into his pockets, his families pockets or pockets of his sup
61 Tommy767 : What I've noticed is after I graduated, many of the older teachers retired and newer ones came onboard. Strange how that happens. However there were
62 DXing : Can you name a single candidate that President Bush invested as much political capital in as President Obama did with Governor Corzine. It does matte
63 Baroque : Now there IS a question I CAN answer, none, because Bush never had near enough political capital to challenge Obama in the Wasted PC stakes. Well you
64 Post contains links Texan : By the way, here is an interesting editorial on Tuesday's elections by The Times' Gail Collins: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/opinion/05collins.ht
65 Ken777 : A lot of these schools have athletic programs that pull in big dollars for the school. There is also a high demand from "out of state" students, whic
66 DXing : Because he campaigned from September on to November as having a plan to turn things around and then when assuming office presented his plan and claim
67 Post contains links DXing : Not that he didn't have the capital to get people elected in an off year, he did. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLNKO-Imvu8 http://bioguide.congress
68 Ken777 : Even McCain's camp knew the Great Recession was heading our way - remember McCain flying to DC to "help turn things around", only to be left at the e
69 Baroque : Dear oh me, you miss that you had lead yourself into a trap. If they were elected the PC was not wasted. If Bush only backed successful candidates it
70 DXing : The failed and continuing failed effort. And when they fail someone else will take their place. Unfortunately, from business, to global warming liber
71 Ken777 : Wars end, but their costs continue. We're pretty well finished paying for WW I, but still send out VA checks (and retirement checks) for WW II. Then
72 D L X : Very true. The US Court of Appeals is still hearing veterans claims stemming out of WWII.
73 Tommy767 : Probably has something to do with a little dollars and cents. Corzine is a multi millionare and god knows how much money he donated to the Obama camp
74 D L X : I can't let this comment stand without a response. It takes two to tango, and Republicans have been very insistent on rejecting any sort of overture
75 STT757 : You are limited to a $2,400.00 donation per person. Chump change.
76 Seb146 : But, at least he was willing to try something different besides war and low taxes. We had that for six years and look where it got us. But, no proble
77 JFKMan : These are two states that voted strongly for Obama. Obama better take these results seriously or else 2010 may be a bad year for him.
78 WarRI1 : Well said, and I do agree, people are different, some on here do not want to accept that.
79 Superfly : New Jersey yes, Virginia no. The spread was only 53% - 47% for Obama in Virgina. Jon Corzine was unpopular in New Jersey before Obama was elected. Ag
80 DXing : Someone who served from 1977 to 1997 could have completely avoided any combat and still draw a 20 year retirement check. Your argument is completely
81 Superfly : Certainly not a landslide but do keep in mind, Virginia's demographics are changing in the Democrats / moderates favor. The Republican who won on Tue
82 Seb146 : Isn't it convenient to forget it started under Bush. But, blame for Obama because we would not want to upset dear leader, would we? Rather than guilt
83 DXing : Where it started is of no concern. Just like a fight, people remember who ended it and so far, this President and Congress aren't getting the job don
84 Superfly : So explain why the evangelicals legislate morality?
85 Yellowstone : In fact, Deeds' defeat can be attributed in part to the fact that he was a Democrat from the rural areas of Virginia. He didn't click with the NoVa s
86 Seb146 : Yes, it is. Especially when the current president is blamed for starting what the previous administration started. When Clinton did anything, there w
87 AvObserver : You can say THAT again. Sorry to say I voted for that embarassment back in '05 since I'm not a party loyalist and he said all the right things. Probl
88 Tommy767 : Could be a senate loyalty thing or you know, under the table 'chump change' that went down unreported. Probably would have to look up specific senate
89 DXing : You mean like hate crimes laws? Or religious intolerance? Nobody said it started under him, but his plan for ending it, as he defined it in his stimu
90 Seb146 : Please show where I singled you out by that one statement. Since the deficit actually slowed and the economy was growing under Clinton, I don't see h
91 Superfly : Alcohol sales restrictions, sodomy laws, abortion laws just to name a few.
92 Tommy767 : Thats why i find it so weird that even in a liberal state like NJ or MA the state refuses to sell liquor at grocery stores.
93 Superfly : Wow, that really sucks.
94 Post contains links PPVRA : If You Sell Wine, Then Let Me Sell Cheese There's your answer!
95 LTBEWR : In NJ, stores that sell alcoholic beverages for off-premise consumption must sell all alcohol beverages, they just can't sell beer and/or wine. With
96 Tommy767 : However most of the country sells beer and liquor in grocery stores. There are stipulations such as in Florida and Tennassee I think you cannot sell
97 DXing : Automotive emmissons, seatbelt laws, various taxes and fees?
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