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Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage  
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7955 posts, RR: 26
Posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1922 times:

Oh, great. Certainly wouldn't want to be one of their relatives about now. Barring some incredible breakthrough, this isn't likely to turn out well for them.

The three, Shane Bauer, 27, Sarah Shourd, 31, and Josh Fattal, 27, crossed into Iran from Iraq (in July) and their families say they strayed across the border accidentally.

"The three are charged with espionage. Investigations continue into the three detained Americans in Iran," Tehran general prosecutor Abbas Jafari Dolatabadi told IRNA.

...

Under Iran's Islamic sharia law, espionage is punishable by death.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091109/ts_nm/us_iran_usa_charges


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3592 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1914 times:

I hope they manage to get them home safe.

What I do not understand about these stories of "espionage" is that the suspects are always hikers that were caught on the wrong side of the border. if I remember correctly there was a similar case in N.Korea.

It might just be me, but when you decide to hike in such areas, out of all the places around the globe, at least have a portable GPS or something and know exactly where you are. These areas are far from safe anyway.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8711 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1907 times:



Quoting Lewis (Reply 1):
It might just be me, but when you decide to hike in such areas, out of all the places around the globe, at least have a portable GPS or something and know exactly where you are. These areas are far from safe anyway.

Frankly if you are hiking in places like the Iran/Iraq border, or the Korean DMZ, you should have no business reproducing.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1899 times:

I really don't understand why these people were hiking on the Iran/Iraq border other than the thrill of trying to evade capture. It's like the kid who plays with fire, eventually he's going to get burned.

While I think the charges of "Espionage" are trumped up, due to the fact that they are westerners, and will probably be used as a bargaining chip for something, do these people ever realize what sort of compromising situation they put the US in politically on an international scale by doing these things? Not to mention it's our tax dollars that have to send an envoy in a private plane to Iran to try and get these twits out. I say they should have to pay out of pocket for sheer foolishness. Regardless of who you are and where your from, you are subject to the laws of the country you entered, illegally. The fact that US-Iran relations are always escalated doesn't help either. This isn't your typical case of border jumping like we have in the southern US.

UAL


User currently offlineVictrola From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 461 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1894 times:

I am sick and tired of our government having to bail out people who get in these types of situations.

Why the hell do people have to go to the Iraqi border with Iran to go hikijng?????


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7955 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1886 times:



Quoting Victrola (Reply 4):
Why the hell do people have to go to the Iraqi border with Iran to go hikijng?????

A good question. Surely Turkey or even Greece offer similar terrain and climate challenges???



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1880 times:



Quoting Lewis (Reply 1):
at least have a portable GPS

GPS is jammed in some portions of Iraq AFAIK


User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6266 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1867 times:



Quoting Lewis (Reply 1):
the suspects are always hikers that were caught on the wrong side of the border. if I remember correctly there was a similar case in N.Korea.

Not quite. In the North Korean case they were Current TV staff who crossed the border on purpose (as one of them stated to her sister, and the sister stated to the public) and then cried that they were captured illegally. Having seen Vanguard several times (the show they work for), I can see them putting out the show later saying "look, we crossed the border illegally into North Korea!"

Hiking in Iraq is a Darwin Award candidate in itself...hiking on the Iraq/Iran border just screams stupidity.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13815 posts, RR: 63
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1862 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Quoting Lewis (Reply 1):
It might just be me, but when you decide to hike in such areas, out of all the places around the globe, at least have a portable GPS or something and know exactly where you are. These areas are far from safe anyway.

Frankly if you are hiking in places like the Iran/Iraq border, or the Korean DMZ, you should have no business reproducing.

Especially since many of those borders are disputed. Iran may well claim that the hikers were on Iranian terrritory and will be producing maps to show this, while their own map showed that they were well within Iraqi territory.
A similar thing happened to a German sports fisherman in the straits of Hormuz, when he got caught fishing hear an island, which is claimed by both the Iran and some Arab state on the other side of the strait (I forgor which one).

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 6):

Quoting Lewis (Reply 1):
at least have a portable GPS

GPS is jammed in some portions of Iraq AFAIK

Then be able to old fashioned land navigation using compass, map and Mark 1 eyeballs.

Jan


User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1841 times:



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 8):
Then be able to old fashioned land navigation using compass, map and Mark 1 eyeballs.

True, but then again lots of people have no sense of direction whatsoever, even with that.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1833 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
Oh, great. Certainly wouldn't want to be one of their relatives about now. Barring some incredible breakthrough, this isn't likely to turn out well for them.

Come on, a deal will be made. This is simply theatre.

Quoting Victrola (Reply 4):
Why the hell do people have to go to the Iraqi border with Iran to go hikijng?????

Very tru, go to Spain, or God knows the million other places.


User currently offlineAirstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2574 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1830 times:



Quoting Victrola (Reply 4):
I am sick and tired of our government having to bail out people who get in these types of situations.

Why the hell do people have to go to the Iraqi border with Iran to go hikijng?????

It may be that these people, though U.S. citizens, are not of pro-American sympathies and believe that they are somehow teaching the U.S. government a lesson.

Here in the Bay Area, a number of people - notably and purposefully all Caucasians - headed over to Iraq just before Dubya's invasion in 2003. Their stated position was that the Administration would be more reluctant to bomb Iraq "if they knew there were white people there."



Pancakes are delicious.
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11574 posts, RR: 61
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1800 times:



Quoting Airstud (Reply 11):
Here in the Bay Area, a number of people - notably and purposefully all Caucasians - headed over to Iraq just before Dubya's invasion in 2003. Their stated position was that the Administration would be more reluctant to bomb Iraq "if they knew there were white people there."

London sent its own contingent as well, by Routemaster bus of course...



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18714 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1744 times:



Quoting Lewis (Reply 1):

It might just be me, but when you decide to hike in such areas, out of all the places around the globe, at least have a portable GPS or something and know exactly where you are. These areas are far from safe anyway.

I was going to suggest that perhaps if you want to go hiking, you can explore the many beautiful and majestic wilderness areas in regions of the globe that aren't in the middle of war, strife, and turmoil. Yosemite is a gorgeous place to hike and you could live a lifetime there without hiking the whole thing.

But then my friend Dreadnought said:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):

Frankly if you are hiking in places like the Iran/Iraq border, or the Korean DMZ, you should have no business reproducing.

And I think he put it far more eloquently than I could.  Smile


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29705 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1682 times:



Quoting Airstud (Reply 11):
Here in the Bay Area, a number of people - notably and purposefully all Caucasians - headed over to Iraq just before Dubya's invasion in 2003. Their stated position was that the Administration would be more reluctant to bomb Iraq "if they knew there were white people there."

Sounds like something that would come out of the bay area. Too bad none of the got popped.

These guys had no buisness there and shouldn't have been there.

But the Iranian court is a dog a pony show under the rules of Sharia law, one of the most barbaric forms of justices to be-fell the land.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1680 times:

More posturing by that government, nothing else. They'll be freed after much political wrangling ,and the Iranian regime whipping up anti-US sentiment.

User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21129 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1664 times:

Well, the US government is now in a bind. On the one hand, Iran is basically holding these people for ransom, and the US shouldn't be playing that game. But on the other hand, letting them take the consequences for choosing to go hiking near the Iraq/Iran border (when Iran has a history of capturing people near their border in disputed territory) would not be very popular at home, and would give Iran quite a bit of anti-US ammunition ("they're too cowardly to stand up for their own people").

Thanks a lot.  Yeah sure

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineRussianJet From Kyrgyzstan, joined Jul 2007, 7638 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1651 times:
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Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Frankly if you are hiking in places like the Iran/Iraq border, or the Korean DMZ, you should have no business reproducing.

I am inclined to agree. Very silly behaviour.

Quoting SW733 (Reply 7):
Not quite. In the North Korean case they were Current TV staff who crossed the border on purpose

That is but one case. There have been others.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31580 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1637 times:

Arn't there better places to hike at.
regds
MEL.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineVictrola From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 461 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1566 times:

As I mentioned before, I think these hikers were idiots. However, we need to start making Iran pay a price for their little games. Perhaps we could arrest some Iranian journalist on some technical charge. We could find something wrong with the visas of Iranian UN officials, we could detain Iranian ships on the high seas for some reason or another. Every time they take a provocative action, we need to do something to humiliate them.

User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1553 times:



Quoting Victrola (Reply 19):
As I mentioned before, I think these hikers were idiots. However, we need to start making Iran pay a price for their little games

Wrong president to do that, which is why they behaving in the manner they are behaving. They are going to push us until he shows some backbone. Or until Netanyahu blows them off the map.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1528 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 20):
Wrong president to do that, which is why they behaving in the manner they are behaving.

BS, pure and simple. They've been playing these games with us for years, no matter if it has been a Democratic or Republican president.

And, NIK, I'm sure you think this is worth firing some missiles at them, or sending attack planes into that country to kill some people, but most Americans, I believe, don't see it that way. It's a game with them, and it's like playing with a toddler who doesn't know better.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18714 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1491 times:



Quoting Victrola (Reply 19):
Every time they take a provocative action, we need to do something to humiliate them.

The action to humiliate them would be to send in some Special Ops and liberate the prisoners, break their prison and release some of Iran's Most Wanted, and then parade our people around on TV safe back in the U.S.


User currently offlineFCA767 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 1724 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1479 times:



Quoting UAL747 (Reply 3):
Not to mention it's our tax dollars that have to send an envoy in a private plane to Iran to try and get these twits out. I say they should have to pay out of pocket for sheer foolishness

But Say if I went around the world...I wouldn't expect Tax Payers to pay me out of the country...If I got caught illegally then that's between me and that country, that's what I think anyway, so not asking for anything from anyone  Smile


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1436 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 21):
BS, pure and simple. They've been playing these games with us for years, no matter if it has been a Democratic or Republican president

Unfortunately it is true, his passive behavior and reluctance to let them know their behavior won't stand has only bred this situation. It's known fact you will follow Obama right into the garbage can right up till the end but it's time to start seeing the truth.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 21):
I'm sure you think this is worth firing some missiles at them, or sending attack planes into that country to kill some people, but most Americans, I believe, don't see it that way. It's a game with them, and it's like playing with a toddler who doesn't know better

You make a real poor analogy for a situation that includes a terrorist regime who is not only developing weapons to inflict major damage but is willing to use them but when the time comes Israel will do what needs to be done since Obama won't but this is far worse than being a game. Why don't you go live in Israel for awhile and see how it is.

Quoting Victrola (Reply 19):
Perhaps we could arrest some Iranian journalist on some technical charge. We could find something wrong with the visas of Iranian UN officials, we could detain Iranian ships on the high seas for some reason or another. Every time they take a provocative action, we need to do something to humiliate them.

Oh yea give them an excuse, great idea.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):
The action to humiliate them would be to send in some Special Ops and liberate the prisoners, break their prison and release some of Iran's Most Wanted, and then parade our people around on TV safe back in the U.S.

Your not serious are you?


25 DocLightning : Israel is causing their own problems by using a stick when a carrot is a better approach. We would be best to do the same. Violence begets violence.
26 SW733 : Yes, that is but one case...the one he was talking about...thus my talking about it.
27 Aero145 : Well good that Iran charged them with espionage, noone in his right mind goes hiking in Iraq and accidentally wanders so far over the border that he
28 Post contains images NIKV69 : This has to be the funniest post ever on anet. You don't think we can get info from other methods such as satellite, spies or otherwise? We don't nee
29 Aero145 : And I thought somebody would think I had been serious. Oh well, maybe better luck next time. On another note, why hike there? Of all places? Just real
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