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Kill Obama T-shirts  
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20362 posts, RR: 59
Posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4549 times:



http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/12033

Now, I have some issues with this article. First of all, it doesn't say who came up with these shirts or how widely they have been circulated. Second, it blankets all "Christian Conservatives" as being responsible for this, when this is clearly not a move of a majority of people.

That said, I would be far more impressed with Christian Conservatives if people who normally are loudly against Obama would stand up and say that this is completely unacceptable. Wishing death and destruction not only on him, but on his wife and children is truly ghastly. (If you don't understand why this shirt says that, read the article).

I don't think it constitutes a specific death threat. Nobody specified that they would be doing it or how they would be doing it. But I do think that if you buy or wear this T-shirt, you'd better be prepared to have the Secret Service closely watching you.

How can the United States of America have any future when this kind of behavior is running rampant? When people are more interested in destroying the other side than working together for our future, we have no future.

78 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11581 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4508 times:

Psalm 109:

8 May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.
9 May his children be fatherless
and his wife a widow.
10 May his children be wandering beggars;
may they be driven [d] from their ruined homes.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I want to see Windy, NIKV, and Dreadnought explain why this "pastor" is okay. And I want to hear KC135TopBoom explain why this guy is not acting in an un-Christian way.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8965 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4480 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
That said, I would be far more impressed with Christian Conservatives if people who normally are loudly against Obama would stand up and say that this is completely unacceptable.

I think it was intended as severely tongue-in-cheek, but I agree this is unacceptable, due to the fact that that you do have a few nutcases around who hear voices and think they are destined to do something like that.

Just a note: The website that sells this shirt also sold shirts like the one below. Aparently they'll sell anything for a buck.

This was sold from CafePress.com

Big version: Width: 240 Height: 240 File size: 7kb



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4472 times:

Nuf said:



 Yeah sure


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4469 times:

While conservatives have traditionally been upset when a Democrat is elected President it seems that the level of hate is far higher than ever before. It would be naive to believe that the color of the President's skin isn't a factor in this. It has to be difficult for the hard right to understand that the voters in this country really preferred a black man over the purity of the conservative religion. Didn't matter that voters felt Obama had better potential to help this country. And they don't want to admit that COnservatives hurt this country far more in the 8 Bush/Cheney years than they helped.

So now we have hate as a normal attitude, shirts that are obscene to reasonably minded people and the numbers of threats against Obama over twice the level Bush "enjoyed".

And the really sad part? This situation is not unexpected in this country.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20362 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4444 times:



Quoting D L X (Reply 1):

I want to see Windy, NIKV, and Dreadnought explain why this "pastor" is okay. And I want to hear KC135TopBoom explain why this guy is not acting in an un-Christian way.

 no Sorry, but this doesn't strike me as Dreadnought's style.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
but I agree this is unacceptable,

See? Told you so.

The reason that he's on my RU list is that, although we seldom agree, we do agree that decency, courtesy, and respect should be an essential part of any such healthy disagreement.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):

Just a note: The website that sells this shirt also sold shirts like the one below. Aparently they'll sell anything for a buck.

Thanks for finding that. Also absolutely unacceptable. You don't wish death on people. You don't wish suffering on them. You CERTAINLY don't wish it on their kids.


User currently offlineAirstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2770 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4389 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
How can the United States of America have any future when this kind of behavior is running rampant?

But Doc, is the behavior actually running rampant? It seems to me like these T-shirt people and their customers are firmly out in the fringe.



Pancakes are delicious.
User currently offlineStarbuk7 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 599 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4380 times:



Quoting D L X (Reply 1):
8 May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.

OK, where exactly in verse 8 here does it ask for his death. The shirt is only referring to verse 8 which to me states that they want him to be voted out in 2012, nowhere does it call for his death since they are ONLY REFERENCING VERSE 8.

That being said I personally do not agree with the shirt. I think it is in bad taste.


User currently offlineTransIsland From Bahamas, joined Mar 2004, 2046 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4368 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
Just a note: The website that sells this shirt also sold shirts like the one below. Aparently they'll sell anything for a buck.

This was sold from CafePress.com

Is it in fact the same folks behind both shirts? Remember, CafePress is just the platform. They'll make me a t-shirt with my face and a halo on it - and believe you me, I don't deserve that!  Wink



I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4355 times:

Ah, the old "secret Christian code". I'm glad the author of the piece was able to decipher it for us.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 5):
While conservatives have traditionally been upset when a Democrat is elected President it seems that the level of hate is far higher than ever before.

Of course liberals and democrats have never been spiteful or hateful when a republican is in the White House have they?

It's a t-shirt. It's in bad taste. Most t-shirts are in bad taste.


User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10349 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4353 times:



Quoting Starbuk7 (Reply 8):
OK, where exactly in verse 8 here does it ask for his death. The shirt is only referring to verse 8 which to me states that they want him to be voted out in 2012, nowhere does it call for his death since they are ONLY REFERENCING VERSE 8.

This:

May his days be few

Can very easily be construed as hoping his life ends soon.

Like telling someone that his/her days are numbered.



How can I be an admiral without my cap??!
User currently offlineFruitbat From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 552 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4336 times:



Quoting Starbuk7 (Reply 8):
The shirt is only referring to verse 8 which to me states that they want him to be voted out in 2012, nowhere does it call for his death since they are ONLY REFERENCING VERSE 8.

Being European and liberal and trying to think best of my fellow man and all that, my initial thought was the same. But then I thought about it a bit more and drew the same conclusion as this....

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 11):
This:

May his days be few

Can very easily be construed as hoping his life ends soon.

Like telling someone that his/her days are numbered.

We may dislike our politicians here in the UK but you won't see commercially available T-shirts or slogan calling directly or indirectly for their death.

Quoting DXing (Reply 10):
It's a t-shirt. It's in bad taste. Most t-shirts are in bad taste.

There's a sweeping statement.....I know some of my older t-shirts are a bit garish but calling them "bad taste" is a bit cheeky......  Smile



Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel.
User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4334 times:



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 11):
May his days be few

Can very easily be construed as hoping his life ends soon.

Can just as easily be construed as hoping his presidency ends soon with the next election cycle. Which is precisely how I see it.

I think calling it a kill Obama shirt is really a huge stretch.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4316 times:



Quoting DXing (Reply 10):
Of course liberals and democrats have never been spiteful or hateful when a republican is in the White House have they?

Of course not.  Smile

And us moderates can be open minded. At times.


User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4308 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
Thanks for finding that. Also absolutely unacceptable. You don't wish death on people. You don't wish suffering on them. You CERTAINLY don't wish it on their kids.

 checkmark . Leave the kids out!

Quoting DXing (Reply 10):
Of course liberals and democrats have never been spiteful or hateful when a republican is in the White House have they?

 checkmark  The rhetoric thrown around by the left about Bush/Cheney is only just now rivaled by the rhetoric about Obama. Liberals are still bashing Bush/Cheney.

Quoting DXing (Reply 10):
It's a t-shirt. It's in bad taste. Most t-shirts are in bad taste.

 checkmark  Let me rephrase. Most political t-shirts are done in bad taste IMHO.



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20362 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4288 times:



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 15):

checkmark The rhetoric thrown around by the left about Bush/Cheney is only just now rivaled by the rhetoric about Obama. Liberals are still bashing Bush/Cheney.

I don't seem to recall any such talk about wishing that Mrs. Bush was a widow and the girls orphans who nobody pities.

I might be left-leaning, but I think that the anti-Obama stuff has been a lot harsher than the anti-Bush stuff ever was. It doesn't excuse the anti-Bush stuff, but this is way beyond it.


User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4270 times:



Quoting D L X (Reply 1):

I want to see Windy, NIKV, and Dreadnought explain why this "pastor" is okay. And I want to hear KC135TopBoom explain why this guy is not acting in an un-Christian way.

Good. Then this means you also want to see the explanations of from our noted leftists on here with the one Dreadnought posted in Reply 3, and that you will also call them out by name and ask for their response.  yes  Humor me and actually do it.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
I think it was intended as severely tongue-in-cheek, but I agree this is unacceptable, due to the fact that that you do have a few nutcases around who hear voices and think they are destined to do something like that.

 checkmark 
While I often disagree with Obama, I would never wish this, and find this behavior unacceptable. I can wait for my chance to peacefully change leaders in November 2012, using the methods set up by our Constitution. I do respect President Obama in that I believe he is doing what he believes in his mind to be the best route for the country, much in the same way President Bush did. I don't believe the President wakes up every morning and goes "How can I screw over the country today" (I have my doubts about other people in Washington, but Obama is not one of them).

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 13):
I think calling it a kill Obama shirt is really a huge stretch.

If the Psalm wasn't followed by the verses that do follow it, I would agree. But the ones after 109:8 are pretty clear.


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8297 posts, RR: 26
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4235 times:



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 13):

Can just as easily be construed as hoping his presidency ends soon with the next election cycle. Which is precisely how I see it.

I think calling it a kill Obama shirt is really a huge stretch.

I really don't think any kind of veiled apologism or appreciation for this sort of thing is appropriate - the universal recognition in this thread that this is plainly in bad taste has already been confirmed. Not even worth debating the semantics of this particular psalm when its context is already clear.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29840 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4218 times:



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 11):
Can very easily be construed as hoping his life ends soon.

Construe is the key word there. It means you are making an assumption, and as the old saying goes, "you can't spell Assumption without the ASS""  mischievous 

Please don't take that as a shot against you, it wasn't meant that way. What I am just trying to say is that by construing what the t-shirt says you are putting your own interpretation on it, which I don't beleive is correct.

Quoting Starbuk7 (Reply 8):
OK, where exactly in verse 8 here does it ask for his death

I definately didn't see that.

Quoting D L X (Reply 1):
8 May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.

This is the correct quote, the other verses where illrelevent, but IMHO just included to rile up the pro-obama forces on this website. The t-shirt doesn't mention them at all.


And far as this shirt goes, I have seen a hell of a lot worse come from the left wing, socialist, welfare dependent, drugged out, anti-war, hippies, and over-educated east coast idiots, and members of the sceen actors guild.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8297 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4212 times:



Quoting L-188 (Reply 19):
welfare dependent



Quoting L-188 (Reply 19):
and members of the sceen actors guild

Ironic that you lump these two together as some SAG members may soon be applying for welfare benefits. Nicholas Cage and others seem to be in serious financial trouble - loving it!



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4193 times:

It's hard to take anyone of you seriously, especially when you remain so silent when someone like Bill Ayers is planting bombs and doing things that can actually hurt someone when he didn't agree with what the president was doing. Give it a rest.

User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10349 posts, RR: 26
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4182 times:



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 12):
Can just as easily be construed as hoping his presidency ends soon with the next election cycle.

Cool. I didn't say otherwise.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 18):
Construe is the key word there. It means you are making an assumption, and as the old saying goes, "you can't spell Assumption without the ASS"" mischievous

Please don't take that as a shot against you, it wasn't meant that way. What I am just trying to say is that by construing what the t-shirt says you are putting your own interpretation on it, which I don't beleive is correct.

OK. But you realize that every person who reads the shirt is using their own powers of interpretation. Everyone is assuming something.

And frankly, I think the next couple verses are quite appropriate to use as context. The part about leaving his kids fatherless, and his wife a widow.

Otherwise, I'm sure there are other quotes in the Bible (or elsewhere) that could have been used.

Also, I didn't put my interpretation on anything. So I guess you assumed I put my interpretation in my post....?



How can I be an admiral without my cap??!
User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11806 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4171 times:



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 14):
Liberals are still bashing Bush/Cheney.

And Republicans are still bashing Clinton. So......?

Quoting L-188 (Reply 18):
I have seen a hell of a lot worse come from the left wing, socialist, welfare dependent, drugged out, anti-war, hippies, and over-educated east coast idiots, and members of the sceen actors guild.

Yes, we all have. From the same group you list during any administration. What of it?

About the shirt: How can anyone calling themselves a Christian actually support this t-shirt or the people behind it? Wishing death upon fellow Christians? Isn't that just as bad, in the eyes of the Lord?



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29840 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4161 times:



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 21):
And frankly, I think the next couple verses are quite appropriate to use as context.

I vehemently disagree.

But It you want to considering the following verses that where not listed on the shirt one other thing to consider is that the quote was written at a time when kings not elected officials ruled.

The rules of succession where a bit different back then and don't translate to modern times.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10349 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4149 times:



Quoting L-188 (Reply 23):
But It you want to considering the following verses that where not listed on the shirt one other thing to consider is that the quote was written at a time when kings not elected officials ruled.

The rules of succession where a bit different back then and don't translate to modern times.

In that case, the quoted verse doesn't translate to modern times either.

Which is fine....It's a stupid T-shirt anyway.



How can I be an admiral without my cap??!
25 L-188 : Well iI wasn't planning to buy it either. But you have to concede that it doesn't out right say "Kill Obama" like the one that was pictured in reply#
26 DocLightning : He's a Muslim born in Africa. Didn't you get the memo? What I wonder is who would subscribe to a religion whose holy books would ever wish such horri
27 D L X : Selective memory NIKV. People on this board (including myself) did condemn Ayers. but don't let facts get in the way of your beliefs. Oh, and I can't
28 TransIsland : I find it strange how willing "Christians" are to use absolutely every bible quote out of context, but scream if MSNBC uses something they feel to be
29 ER757 : Like G.W. Bush from Kennebunkport, ME with a Yale education? Like Ronald Reagan? Some are still whining about the FL vote in 2000. It's over folks, m
30 L-188 : He was a democrat at the time. Actually his presidency of the SAG was one of the reasons he converted to the side of good...the republicans. Besides,
31 TheCol : That behavior is restricted to the usual anarchists and extremist groups who spend the majority of their lives protesting at political venues. Essent
32 Tommy767 : I'm not too savvy on bible verses and passages so to me this just looks, if anything like a pro-obama shirt such as to literally 'pray for obama.' Ap
33 LTBEWR : There is a very fine line between Constitutionally protected free speech and hate speech. To me, this shirt is using a very subtile form of hate speec
34 Vikkyvik : I don't have to concede anything, since I never said that in the first place. I do have to ask something, though, upon further reflection: If the sur
35 Seb146 : Add to that the moderates and independants that were sick of the GOP who would have (and probably did) vote for anyone who was not a Republican. But,
36 Tommy767 : Yeah take my mom for instance who voted for GWB twice and then voted for Obama
37 Fruitbat : No it's not, it's somewhere between a harmless joke or incitement to violence (depending where you sit on the political spectrum). This is politics (
38 Dreadnought : I prefer this definition: The word "politics" is derived from the word "poly", meaning 'many', and the word 'ticks', meaning 'blood sucking parasites
39 Post contains images Aaron747 : Hmmm...certainly food for thought: Yep, that's definitely what they look like. Good call Sir Charles...I'm going to use that from now on.
40 DocLightning : No. He's had twice as many death threats as any president in history. It's not just me. I *NEVER* heard anyone wish ill on his kids or wife. *NEVER*
41 TheCol : Source? I suppose it's possible, knowing that there are still a few white supremacist groups still active in the states. But beyond that, I doubt the
42 FlyDeltaJets87 : I would have gotten it. So did everyone miss the last election and how much Palin and her family were railed on by the media?
43 Aaron747 : Did you somehow miss the obvious hypocrisy between Palin's campaign trail stumping for unrealistic, government-hands-in-your-home family values and w
44 IAirAllie : This shirt isn't doing that to Obama either it says verse 8 it means verse 8. If it meant the other verses it would have said so. It doesn't cost any
45 DocLightning : No. The Bush girls got left alone, for the most part. When they got caught using fake ID, I think most of the criticisms were directed at her father
46 Falcon84 : Palin brought it on her family. She campaigned as a "family values" politician, then carted her family out like trophies at almost every stop. She tr
47 NIKV69 : Funny I don't remember a topic being made about it. You may have agreed to co This is just CNN spin. Bringing your family out is normal campaign proce
48 Falcon84 : Uh, whatever. I don't watch CNN; FOX, or anyone else right now. I don't watch much TV at all, unless it's sports or one or two programs I record. So
49 FlyDeltaJets87 : And Lord knows living in Cleveland, you can't even call the teams that you're watching "sports".
50 Falcon84 : Not two of the three, that's for sure. Thank God for the Cavaliers.
51 GQfluffy : This year. Next year OTOH...
52 DocLightning : Bull. Crap. We saw the Obama kids maybe 5 times during the campaign. Their parents kept them at home. We saw the Palin kids all over the place. For a
53 CaliAtenza : definetly right on this point. How many scandals do we see coming out the Right these days.
54 Seb146 : Obama carted his family out like trophies at some stops, too. So did Bush II. So did Clinton. So did Nixon. It is a political ploy used by every poli
55 DocLightning : The bit that alarms me is that you would even try to defend it with such a lame excuse. You know damned well what the context of that verse is. Disgu
56 L-188 : Damm, next time I will go with my first instinct. I think it is disgusting that you are trying to write more into it then is actually quoted. He only
57 D L X : Not just her. Two others on this thread made this argument as well, including... It's damned obvious what the intent is, even if you're going to leav
58 DocLightning : No. Dreadnought immediately condemned it because it's wrong. He has a perfectly functional ethical system, even if he and I disagree on politics. Whe
59 Tommy767 : My comment about politics was not in response to the obama shirt. My comment was showing how in today's American politics when one party is in power
60 ER757 : This isn't really new for some on extremists. I seem to recall Pat Roberson praying on his TV show for left-leaning Supreme Court justices to die befo
61 DocLightning : Mr. Robinson makes me wish that there really was a Heaven, Hell, and St. Peter because I would love to see the look on his face when he finds out whe
62 TheCol : Ever heard of "Robot Chicken"? Seth Green worked them into a few episodes. Royal Canadian Air Farce made fun of them quite a few times. The Bush twin
63 Flynlr : some folks seem to forget the one most important fact about obama. he was not arrested and convicted into the office of POTUS , he sought and actively
64 Post contains links EIJFK : Totally off-topic, but... I have a run in with that one, she was busted in New Haven at Toad's place. I ran into her at a bar called Rudy's, she was
65 DocLightning : Yeah. Usually because of stuff THEY did. Nobody ever wished orphanage on them.
66 EA772LR : Yet... He did speak on multiple occasions of having a civilian national military force, much like what Hitler put together after his 1933 election...
67 Fruitbat : That's fair enough, thanks for the clarification. Seconded. I just hope that in these days of sensationalist personality-based politics (on both side
68 Post contains images Dreadnought : Actually I found a better t-sirt, if you really want to quote the bible against Obama. What do you think?
69 DocLightning : Still tacky, but at least not as bad. Of course, if you read the whole passage, it sounds more like a description of 9/11 and Bush's reaction.
70 Seb146 : While I still disagree with the anti-Obama crowd, this particular t-shirt is much less menacing than the original one posted.
71 IAirAllie : We don't have sermons in the sense that you are thinking of. We have a lay clergy and rotating members of the congregation deliver "talks" at our wor
72 Seb146 : And how it relates to us today. It is very difficult to pick just one verse without explaining why it was included by reading previous and following
73 Slider : I know! That pesky First Amendment is such a buzzkill…. Did you ever think that maybe the “let his days be numbered” reference is pointing to t
74 DocLightning : No, the bit about his wife and kids. The wife and kids. And no, it's not out of context. It's part of the psalm. It amazes me that anyone could subsc
75 D L X : But this isn't a quote! It's a citation to a passage in the Bible, and it is clear what the passage is about. Your argument is like saying it's not s
76 IAirAllie : The biblical context is relevant when you are in church and you are studying the bible and it's application to your life. Not relevant here. When you
77 D L X : Again, this isn't a quote. If it were a quote, and the shirt simply said "Pray for Obama: 'may his days be few'" I'd disagree with the shirt, but I'd
78 IAirAllie : If I'd said dang "Shakespear's Macbeth Act 5, scene 1, verse x" it would have be the same thing it would still be removed from the original context.
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