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The American Dream  
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8792 posts, RR: 24
Posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2255 times:

We've all heard about it. Maybe not for much longer.

http://www.startribune.com/opinion/commentary/70662162.html?page=1&c=y

Quote:
Do you believe in the American dream -- the idea that in this country, hardworking people of every race, color and creed can get ahead on their own merits? If so, that belief may soon bar you from getting a license to teach in Minnesota public schools -- at least if you plan to get your teaching degree at the University of Minnesota's Twin Cities campus.

In a report compiled last summer, the Race, Culture, Class and Gender Task Group at the U's College of Education and Human Development recommended that aspiring teachers there must repudiate the notion of "the American Dream" in order to obtain the recommendation for licensure required by the Minnesota Board of Teaching. Instead, teacher candidates must embrace -- and be prepared to teach our state's kids -- the task force's own vision of America as an oppressive hellhole: racist, sexist and homophobic.

I will reserve comment for now. What do you guys think?


Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2250 times:

Well, I don't think they should throw out the idea that hard work and good ethics can take you far in society in this country, but:

Children also need to be taught facts. And the facts and data all support that this country is highly sexist, highly racist, and highly homophobic. And, because of this, people can easily fall behind in obtaining the "American Dream." However, I don't think the US is any more oppressive than any other modernized western country.

If we could have just kicked the religion habit 50 years ago, things might be a lot better in the above specified areas. (Just a thought).

UAL


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21415 posts, RR: 54
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2200 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
In a report compiled last summer, the Race, Culture, Class and Gender Task Group at the U's College of Education and Human Development recommended that aspiring teachers there must repudiate the notion of "the American Dream" in order to obtain the recommendation for licensure required by the Minnesota Board of Teaching. Instead, teacher candidates must embrace -- and be prepared to teach our state'

Oh sure, that will be exactly what that recommenadion says...!  crazy 

How about a literal quote from there instead of an obviously wildly hyperbolic, paranoid interpretation?


User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2195 times:



Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
And the facts and data all support that this country is highly sexist, highly racist, and highly homophobic.

Sad but true. And I don't see why there's a need to sugar coat things. You gotta say it how it is. I'm sick of this whole political correctness movement.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
If we could have just kicked the religion habit 50 years ago, things might be a lot better in the above specified areas.

Amen! errr... ya what you said  Wink


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2167 times:



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 3):

My sentiments exactly.



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19416 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2134 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):

I will reserve comment for now. What do you guys think?

I think the American Dream is long dead. And America, or at least the great nation that it once was, will soon be dead.

You get caught smoking a joint at 15. You can *NEVER* get a Federal grant for your education. Good-bye, American dream.

You're gay. You join the military. You work hard, climb the ranks, earn the respect and admiration of your subordinates and superiors. One day, your vengeful ex outs you. You are dishonorably discharged. Good-bye, American dream.

You have a vision of building a business to transport people from LA to Vegas on a high-speed train that will race through the desert, making the journey faster, cleaner, and cheaper. There's more than enough market and your business model is sound. After years and countless dollars of paperwork and environmental impact reports, your project might endanger a small patch of grass along the route. Good-bye, American dream.

You have a job. You pay your rent. You pay your taxes. One day, you get an eviction notice. Your landlord apparently did not pay his taxes or his mortgage. Good-bye, American dream.

You're a poor kid in the ghetto. Your parents can't afford to send you to a good school. You try and try, but your teachers can't even speak standard English because teaching is such an unpleasant job that anyone with a decent education and skills won't touch it. As you grow up, you realize that there's no point in an education because you aren't getting one. You need to feed your family and so you drop out. Good-bye, American dream.

You had a job. You lost it in the crisis. With it went your healthcare. One day, while coming home from another interview, you are struck by an uninsured driver. You have $100,000 in medical bills. Good-bye, American dream.


User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2125 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
I think the American Dream is long dead.

For sure. People nowadays are so short sighted. But as you put in a very eloquent way, it's almost impossible to have a dream anymore.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
And America, or at least the great nation that it once was, will soon be dead.

A bit drastic, but if it were to happen I'd be OK with it. I don't see why the heck we need to be the mightiest, strongest, most powerful SOBs in the world. It brings unneeded attention to us and more reasons for people to hate us (9/11 ring a bell?).

IMO we could still be a superpower but without having to be all arrogant and flaunting it all over the world. If we kept it low key, like say Germany, France, or Switzerland which are, each in in their own unique ways, very powerful countries, we would be much more better off. But that's just me.

[Edited 2009-11-24 14:30:30]

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19416 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2095 times:



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 6):

IMO we could still be a superpower but without having to be all arrogant and flaunting it all over the world. If we kept it low key, like say Germany, France, or Switzerland which are, each in in their own unique ways, very powerful countries, we would be much more better off. But that's just me.

I agree. For all the hand-wringing about China being the next superpower, the EU, as I've pointed out in other threads, is the new superpower. By building a vast empire through peaceful, economic means, they have truly managed to do something unique in history.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8792 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2083 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
You get caught smoking a joint at 15. You can *NEVER* get a Federal grant for your education. Good-bye, American dream.

Cause: Stupid federal laws regarding availability of your criminal record for non-felony crimes.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
You're gay. You join the military. You work hard, climb the ranks, earn the respect and admiration of your subordinates and superiors. One day, your vengeful ex outs you. You are dishonorably discharged. Good-bye, American dream.

Well, on this one you're on your own - you knew the rules when you enlisted. But caused by: Federal law (and policy)

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
You have a vision of building a business to transport people from LA to Vegas on a high-speed train that will race through the desert, making the journey faster, cleaner, and cheaper. There's more than enough market and your business model is sound. After years and countless dollars of paperwork and environmental impact reports, your project might endanger a small patch of grass along the route. Good-bye, American dream.

Cause: Stupid federal laws plus stupid state laws.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
You have a job. You pay your rent. You pay your taxes. One day, you get an eviction notice. Your landlord apparently did not pay his taxes or his mortgage. Good-bye, American dream.

I don't get this one - you just move out - you don't lose anything apart from maybe your deposit.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
You're a poor kid in the ghetto. Your parents can't afford to send you to a good school. You try and try, but your teachers can't even speak standard English because teaching is such an unpleasant job that anyone with a decent education and skills won't touch it. As you grow up, you realize that there's no point in an education because you aren't getting one. You need to feed your family and so you drop out. Good-bye, American dream.

Solution: Voucher program. Oh, darn, of all the things Obama promised to do, that's the one program he managed to kill, and he killed it damned fast.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
You had a job. You lost it in the crisis. With it went your healthcare. One day, while coming home from another interview, you are struck by an uninsured driver. You have $100,000 in medical bills. Good-bye, American dream.

Cause: Stupid federal laws stemming from WWII which pushed health care to be furnished by your employer instead of yourself. Wouldn't it be better if your salary was $500 or more higher and you could invest, say, $400 of that money in a health savings account and another $100 would go to a catastrophic coverage plan with a high deductable, priced according to interstate competition. There you go, no bankruptcy.

Looks like the cause for nearly all these problems is too much government, instead of not enough.

And yes, I agree that this country has pretty much smashed 'the American Dream' into the ground. We have no privacy any more - Credit Bureaus, the IRS and a complete override of privacy rights imbedded in the Constitution have seen to that. That right supposedly ensures you can kill your unborn baby, but it doesn't prevent anyone from looking into your financial history for just a $10 fee. How screwed up is that???



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19416 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2044 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 8):

Cause: Stupid federal laws stemming from WWII which pushed health care to be furnished by your employer instead of yourself. Wouldn't it be better if your salary was $500 or more higher and you could invest, say, $400 of that money in a health savings account and another $100 would go to a catastrophic coverage plan with a high deductable, priced according to interstate competition. There you go, no bankruptcy.

Until you suffer long-term unemployment or long-term disability and can no longer afford that healthcare you have to buy.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 8):

Looks like the cause for nearly all these problems is too much government, instead of not enough.

See, this "big" vs "small" government thing is a fallacy. What we're dealing with here is INEFFECTIVE government.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8792 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2026 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
Until you suffer long-term unemployment or long-term disability and can no longer afford that healthcare you have to buy.

That's what insurance is for. A part of your insurance premium - maybe $10 worth, would be for such disability, and with a health savings account in place, you can easily afford the price of catastrophic insurance. It's all in the structure - something the current bill completely ignores.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
See, this "big" vs "small" government thing is a fallacy. What we're dealing with here is INEFFECTIVE government.

OK then, big and ineffective vs. small but effective government.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7943 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2024 times:

Being a former teacher myself, I'd say learning objectives must be measurable. Hence, "American Dream" is as an unseizable objective as "homophobic hellhole" is.

With that being said, only bad teachers tell students the truth. Good teachers help students to find out the truth.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19416 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2007 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):

OK then, big and ineffective vs. small but effective government.

How about just effective. France has a big government, but it's very effective.

Do you know one reason that the American Dream is going down the tubes? Infrastructure. Rush hour starts earlier and earlier and ends later and later. Americans spend more time sitting in traffic than ever before and nothing is being done to change that. How can Americans take care of their kids and support their families when they are spending four hours commuting every day to and from work because they don't have any alternative than to drive?

Rolling blackouts in California. Brownouts in NYC. Exploding steam pipes. Collapsing bridges. This is America in the 21st Century.

When you can't effectively move people and goods, you can't have an effective economy. When there is no effective economy, there is no dream.

Our government has the power to be effective. They could spend money on infrastructure projects that are necessary to keep us safely and effectively moving. They could exercise eminent domain and tell the NIMBYS that it's not their back yard anymore. Here's your check. Move.

But our government is now controlled by politicians who are more worried about getting re-elected, or getting their party in power than they are interested in fixing America.

That Stimulus Bill should have been 80% infrastructure. THAT would have made jobs.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8792 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1996 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
How about just effective. France has a big government, but it's very effective.

I lived in Paris, and spent 20 years in Geneva, less than a mile from the French border and visited often. Trust me, it's not that effective (witness the chronicly high unemployment, for one thing). The French government is also highly centralized - to duplicate that, you would basically have to eliminate states' rights entirely. French states (or Departments) have very little power.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
Do you know one reason that the American Dream is going down the tubes? Infrastructure. Rush hour starts earlier and earlier and ends later and later. Americans spend more time sitting in traffic than ever before and nothing is being done to change that. How can Americans take care of their kids and support their families when they are spending four hours commuting every day to and from work because they don't have any alternative than to drive?

And who's at fault? Incompetant planners, for one. The willingness of people to live in huge cities. If I got a job offer in Houston or LA, I wouldn't move there for exactly that reason. If you don't like the traffic, either move close to your job or change cities.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
But our government is now controlled by politicians who are more worried about getting re-elected, or getting their party in power than they are interested in fixing America.

Absolutely. So why are you on the side of the party whose philosophy is based on expanding that power? Become a conservative, which is based on a distrust of power and the desire to minimize the abuse by starving the beast.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11533 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1993 times:

Could somebody please quote the original text of the task force's recomendation instead of an op-ed piece that is clearly against it? I think there is much more to this story than just the one side.

See what listening to both left-wing and right-wing talk radio does to a person?



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1977 times:

The American Dream is the drive for oneself to achieve a personal goal(s) that fulfills ones own desires whether it be career or pleasure driven. Historically, "manifest destiny" was an early concept showing how immigrants really took in stride the american dream in the massive rush to become landowners in the western U.S to escape the overcrowded and undesirable living conditions of the eastern U.S.


"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13040 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1964 times:

There has always been challanges to and changes as to what we call the "American Dream". Yes, there are still many issues that limit access what some call the Dream in recent years.

For many the losses of jobs, of health care, racism, sexism, limits of access to quality of eduction and other issues may make the Dream difficut, but we still are many day to day things we have that all still elusive in many countries. Freedom of Faith (or not having one), no formal classism, more protective privacy rights, no 'National ID Card', the right to open a business without as many governemtal restrictions and less labor law restrictions. Yes, as a nation we don't recognize same-gender marriage, but in some countries, being GLBT is asking for a death sentence. In some countries, not of the same general race or faith or tribe or involved in certain trades can mean great social restrictions. Many still try to get into this Country due to the 'Dream' despite how much as it has changed.

The American Dream will have to evolve, change to a more reasoned style. It will have to be in far smaller and more efficient residences, fewer and smaller cars, less 'stuff', maybe a job that isn't exciting but gives you enough to live on far better than in many countries.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21529 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1944 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
The willingness of people to live in huge cities.

Correction: the willingness of people to live OUTSIDE huge cities. The constant suburbanization is a big problem. It's a tremendously inefficient use of land, and it prevents mass transit from being truly effective.

If more people were willing to actually live in Houston or LA instead of in Sugar Land or Irvine, things would be better. Thankfully, we are seeing a swing back to urban redevelopment instead of continuing suburban expansion. But it's coming much later than it should have.

EDIT: It's worth mentioning that Houston and Berlin have about the same metro area population (3.82 million vs. 3.7 million). Houston covers just over 600 square miles, while Berlin covers just under 350. Berlin has 25 train lines (both S-Bahn and U-Bahn) and 22 light rail lines, in addition to an extensive bus network. Houston has a bus network, and 1 light rail line (with plans for five more). That tells you pretty much all you need to know about the urban planning failings of the US.

-Mir

[Edited 2009-11-24 20:40:18]


7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8792 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1938 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 17):
Correction: the willingness of people to live OUTSIDE huge cities. The constant suburbanization is a big problem. It's a tremendously inefficient use of land, and it prevents mass transit from being truly effective.

I stand corrected.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineJcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1917 times:

Haha... Obama's vision of America has been expressed in numerous posts above this one. How priceless.


America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8191 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1889 times:

While there are problem areas in our country there are also exceptional things that continue to happen.

Look at last November. The voters of this country elected a black man for president. As someone who remembers segregation when I was young this was an exceptional moment in our history.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 8):
Cause: Stupid federal laws stemming from WWII which pushed health care to be furnished by your employer instead of yourself. Wouldn't it be better if your salary was $500 or more higher and you could invest, say, $400 of that money in a health savings account and another $100 would go to a catastrophic coverage plan with a high deductable, priced according to interstate competition. There you go, no bankruptcy.

That assumes that we boost the minimum wage to where low income earners are able to set aside $500 a month. You would still have bankruptcies, especially if you allow collusion between health insurance companies because of anti-trust immunity.

Or maybe we can do it cheaper - add disability insurance to FICA taxes. Oooops - we've done that. And Medicare follows in two years.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
What we're dealing with here is INEFFECTIVE government.

Large organizations, be they corporate or government, will have significant degrees of ineffective operations, policies, decisions, etc. Anyone who served in the military can vouch for that.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
That's what insurance is for. A part of your insurance premium - maybe $10 worth, would be for such disability, and with a health savings account in place,

It's called FICA.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
How can Americans take care of their kids and support their families when they are spending four hours commuting every day to and from work because they don't have any alternative than to drive?

I agree that is a challenge for many. And it is one of the reasons why we stayed in TUL after living in PER for 8 years. PER had a 30 minute commute if I left early in the morning. TUL had a 5 to 10 minute commute.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
That Stimulus Bill should have been 80% infrastructure. THAT would have made jobs.

I'll agree that it should have had major infrastructure spending - and that maybe all petrol taxes should go to only transit infrastructure spending. I know in TUL a lot of road work is going on because of the stimulus as well as other financing in place before then.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
to duplicate that, you would basically have to eliminate states' rights entirely

Or maybe France is small enough that it is equal to some of our states - meaning it's equal to the effectiveness of some of our individual states.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
If I got a job offer in Houston

Depends on where in Houston the job was, and your home would be. Get into the Houston Medical Center (or Rice University) and live where I lived in the 50s and you could ride a bike to work in 15 minutes. Or catch the tram to downtown.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Become a conservative, which is based on a distrust of power and the desire to minimize the abuse by starving the beast.

Problem is that Doc has seem the impact of conservatives in his field - ask him about health care reform and public options. And he knows about the government investments in medicine, from Medicare/Medicaid to NIH research funding, to Pell Grants for kids wanting to work in the medical field.

Question. If conservatives distrust power so much why do they work so hard to get it?  Smile


User currently offlineSan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4941 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1868 times:



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 20):

Question. If conservatives distrust power so much why do they work so hard to get it? Smile

They distrust any besides them having power.  Smile Overall, I agree with the main idea of the threat, especially DocLightning's reply. The American Dream just is not as feasible as it once was, for a lot of reasons.



Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3946 posts, RR: 28
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1855 times:

I always find it interesting when (upper) middle class people that grew up in the U.S. and benefited from all the opportunities it provides to live a comfortable life complain about the inexistence of an American Dream. When I ask my Chinese, or Peruvian, or Vietnamese friends whose parents came to the U.S. when they were young with almost no cash and speaking barely a word of english and that in less than a generation managed to get a college education, find a good job and become fully integrated members of the society they never complain about how a cold, racist and heartless place the U.S. is. I wonder why...

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
Until you suffer long-term unemployment or long-term disability and can no longer afford that healthcare you have to buy.

Not sure about the unemployment (I believe COBRA is still quite expensive) but for long-term disability that is what Medicaid is for, no?



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19416 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1838 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):

Absolutely. So why are you on the side of the party whose philosophy is based on expanding that power? Become a conservative, which is based on a distrust of power and the desire to minimize the abuse by starving the beast.

Because "Conservativism" in this country is about wrapping yourself in a flag and waving a cross around, while being a completely irresponsible ass, trashing the environment, invading sovereign countries on a whim, amassing as much wealth as possible and not caring about those who didn't get any.

That's not what I stand for, either. At least the Democrats seem to be trying to work for the greater good. But, as I said, they aren't much better. I'm tempted to just not vote for anyone.


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8029 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1801 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 23):
That's not what I stand for, either. At least the Democrats seem to be trying to work for the greater good. But, as I said, they aren't much better. I'm tempted to just not vote for anyone.

What's wrong with Libertarians? They just want the government to leave everyone the hell alone and let us all determine the course of our lives as we see fit. Oh yeah, they have zero power in Washington. Oops.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 22):
I always find it interesting when (upper) middle class people that grew up in the U.S. and benefited from all the opportunities it provides to live a comfortable life complain about the inexistence of an American Dream.

As the product of an upper middle class area and upbringing, I concede that you have a point. I know a fair number of people of my generation who resent that their shot at having the life their parents provided them is chancy at best. I tend not to have sympathy for them as I made the choice to go it on my own and deny financial assistance from family, but I also understand that for people who grew up with a lot and are now living with less, it is a difficult change given a certain frame of mind. It's not that there's an inexistence of the dream, just that the dream itself has been modified and pared down to an undesirable level.

On the other hand, there are people like my maternal uncle, who watched my grandfather work two jobs, never have money for vacations, and go years without a new suit or shoes. He decided he didn't want that, got himself into Berkeley, struggled for a few years in several architectural firms, before going on to start his own and really hit it big in the SF area the last 15 years. The fact that he ticks 'Hispanic' in the box hasn't worked against him nearly as much as some would like to think it does.

Quoting Mir (Reply 17):
EDIT: It's worth mentioning that Houston and Berlin have about the same metro area population (3.82 million vs. 3.7 million). Houston covers just over 600 square miles, while Berlin covers just under 350. Berlin has 25 train lines (both S-Bahn and U-Bahn) and 22 light rail lines, in addition to an extensive bus network. Houston has a bus network, and 1 light rail line (with plans for five more).

Not remotely suggesting that Americans are prepared to live this way, but Osaka has 2.7 million in just 86 square miles. What does that end up looking like? Big grin

http://candymkl.tripod.com/info/Osakarailmap.jpg

[Edited 2009-11-25 04:20:17]


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
25 DocLightning : Ok. That makes much more sense now. In Europe, where more people live closer together, there is less traffic because people don't need to travel so f
26 GrahamHill : For some Parisians living in the suburbs and working in the center of Paris, it can take up to 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the evening when
27 DocLightning : Well, given that Paris, London, New York, and Tokyo are the four major world cities, I'm not shocked that they have traffic issues. But San Francisco
28 Ual777 : Can we find anymore obscure examples? The American Dream is alive and well, but people do not realize it. The American Dream is not all 300 million p
29 BMI727 : No, we can't do that. Some rabbit might lose its home.
30 Mir : An "image hosted by Tripod" tag? Maybe you could repost it - as a casual fan of urban planning and design, I'm quite interested to see what it looks
31 Post contains links and images Aaron747 : Sorry about that - Osaka rail:
32 Flighty : Thank you. Nobody said it was easy. In our baby-boomer centric society it seems like the "decline" attitude recently merely reflects that baby boomer
33 DocLightning : They can't get elected. That's what's wrong with them. Puts me in a spot. It's a worthless vote. "obscure" incidents affecting 1/6 of the population
34 Post contains images Vikkyvik : My American Dream is certainly alive and well. Despite numerous setbacks, mostly of my own creation, I've managed to get through engineering school a
35 Post contains images Aaron747 : I have to disagree slightly with that characterization - Los Angeles is one of the most densely populated metropolitan areas in North America. Signif
36 BMI727 : So the real gripe isn't that the American Dream is gone, but rather that the American Dream is difficult to achieve. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn
37 Seb146 : My parents, however, were born and raised in this country, got educations and got reasonably good jobs in the health care industry. However, those jo
38 Vikkyvik : True, I won't disagree with that assessment. Nevertheless, much of LA is suburban development - stand-alone houses. Yep. Wish that whole light rail s
39 ER757 : I think it depends on just what your dream is. As for myself, I am content with my life. I'm not rich by American standards, but a large percentage o
40 Seb146 : And that is great for those who can achieve it. But, there are still those of us who just keep up every day and those of us who have given up long ag
41 FlyMIA : Both my parents and grandparents came here with no money from two different countries. They are now very sucessful people and can help pay for my educ
42 Deltamd90 : The problem here is people expect the American Dream to be easy... it's not! It is widely available to most people (granted there are some very unfort
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