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Should Guilty Catholic Priests Get Death Penalty?  
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27122 posts, RR: 60
Posted (4 years 11 months 3 days ago) and read 2450 times:

After todays shameful conclusion of the report into Priests abusing and raping children what should their fate be?

Abuse 'covered up' by Dublin Archdiocese
Thursday, 26 November 2009 16:01
The report of the Commission of Investigation into the Catholic Archdiocese of Dublin has said it has no doubt that clerical child abuse was covered up by the Archdiocese and other church authorities.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1126/abuse.html

------------

'Revulsion and anger' at report findings

Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern has questioned how any member of the Catholic Church would be allowed to put some clergy beyond the reach of the law.

Speaking at the publication of the report of the Commission of Investigation into the Catholic Archdiocese of Dublin, Mr Ahern said the bottom line is a collar will not protect the criminal.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1126/abusereax.html

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCurtisMan From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1002 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 3 days ago) and read 2446 times:

I don't know if you are referring to a group of guilty priests just in 1 country or worldwide - as this problem has happened in a few countries.

My opinion is that they face the penalty just as anyone else would face the penalty. They are not above the law.

Here in Canada we do not have the death penalty so my answer would be no if it happened here in Canada.



Citizen of the World
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6613 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 3 days ago) and read 2429 times:
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Quoting CurtisMan (Reply 1):
few countries.

I am willing to bet that this has happened in way more than a "few" countries.

Unfortunately, in some places like latin america - 99% of time priests would get away with it because the institutions that should deal with these issues are generally weak to begin with and unwilling to take on the powerful Catholic Church.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12521 posts, RR: 35
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2390 times:



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 2):
Unfortunately, in some places like latin america - 99% of time priests would get away with it because the institutions that should deal with these issues are generally weak to begin with and unwilling to take on the powerful Catholic Church.

That's exactly what happened in Ireland. The church had far too much power; one man in particular had a land in that - the late John Charles McQuaid, archbishop of Dublin for c.40 years, but of course, it required the "connivance" and spinelessness at a political level. The Catholic Church had massive power in Ireland and it really makes me angry to think about what they did, for example, to young women who became pregnant out of wedlock and were sent to laundries - basically the equivalent of gulags in Russia: forgotten and without any rights, outside the protection of the law. The curse of the damned, as they say, is not that they did not wrong, but that they did nothing.

Here's another media report today:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/r...y-to-conceal-sex-abuse-435897.html

As to what should happen, well, I certainly think that the individuals should receive the full weight of the law; there's no point talking about the death penalty; such people, in any case, are really just walking dead anyway; living - no, existing - with the knowledge of having done what they have done - is not a life at all. But I think we need to look at the institution of the church and what needs to happen with it, because we know that even despite what has happened here, the church will still try - given half a chance - to throw its weight around when rights are given to people it views as "untermenschen" - be it gays, transsexuals or whoever else. We need to use this as the impetus for a final drive to break the influence of the church in Ireland - take it out of education, keep it to where it should be and make it absolutely clear that if it - or any of its members - so much as sneeze in the wrong direction, the state will come down on it.

Our eyes have been open for some time to how totally ridiculous it is to have a group of men who live an unhealthy, enforced lifestyle (and don't tell me celibrcy doesn't have a part in this - not that it's an excuse for a moment for what they did), with very limited "real world" knowledge/experience - trying to impose their views on society at large and worse still, having virtual impunity in discriminating against other sections of society; how bloody absurd it was!

Just can't wait to see what Pope Benedict says about this - no doubt some crocodile tears and a "heartfelt apology".


User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2371 times:

Correct me if I'm wrong but since when is the death penalty the standard punishment for rape?  Yeah sure

If and when they throw these sick bastards behind bars, they WILL receive the appropriate punishment from their fellow inmates, I guarantee it.  box 


User currently offlinePSA53 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3072 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2367 times:



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 4):
Correct me if I'm wrong but since when is the death penalty the standard punishment for rape?

Agree.To the law.Not an act of vengeance.

 checkmark 

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 4):

If and when they throw these sick bastards behind bars, they WILL receive the appropriate punishment from their fellow inmates, I guarantee it.

Agreed,part 2.But if there's major problem in Catholicism,can it not be said the problem is widespread in many other religious practices?



Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21685 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2342 times:



Quoting PSA53 (Reply 5):
But if there's major problem in Catholicism,can it not be said the problem is widespread in many other religious practices?

I'd tend to say no. Other religions may have their own things that they'd prefer to keep behind closed doors, but the Catholic Church seems to be the only one with a widespread child molestation problem.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7565 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2335 times:



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 4):
they WILL receive the appropriate punishment from their fellow inmates, I guarantee it.

How can you guarantee that? Are you speaking from personal experience?


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12521 posts, RR: 35
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2307 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 6):
But if there's major problem in Catholicism,can it not be said the problem is widespread in many other religious practices?

I doubt it; I maintain that it's because of the unhealthy nature of the church and its attitudes to celibacy; the combination of that and the "availability" - for want of a far better words - of vulnerable young people outside the protection of the state was little short of a tinder-box. It's a bit like the Reason Model of Organisation failure (the Swiss cheese model); here, the cheeses lined up and the result is, well, what you have now.

Is this really so absurd? If there was a healthy, human, realistic and compassionate approach to human sexuality, recognising that people have a sexual persona, would the current crisis have arisen, or have been as bad as it is? I doubt it very much.

Will it change? No; not really; it's as committed to celibacy as it always was, and as mysogenistic as it always was (witness the plan to attract ultra right wing members of the Church of England into its ranks). Again, ingredients for a very lopsided and unhealthy view of - and relationship to - the real world, the world inhabited by its rapidly diminishing flock.

I always make the parallel between the church and a wing; what happens if the wing doesn't flex; it snaps off or breaks up; the same will ultimately happen to the Church.


User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6613 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2292 times:
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how does the bible suggest we deal with rape?


Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2282 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 6):
Quoting PSA53 (Reply 5):
But if there's major problem in Catholicism,can it not be said the problem is widespread in many other religious practices?


I'd tend to say no. Other religions may have their own things that they'd prefer to keep behind closed doors, but the Catholic Church seems to be the only one with a widespread child molestation problem.

Not according to what I have seen in the news media and reports of lawsuits in the US.

There is not the organized level of moving suspected child abusers to other churches or treatment centers and not reporting suspicions to the police as occured with the Catholic church. However there have been several cases in the Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Church of Christ and most other Protestant religious groups in the US.

And I'm not even counting those 'fundamentalist' and ex-communicated Mormon sects in the news with their spiritual marriages to underage girls.

The lawsuits and criminal cases tend to be smaller headlines for the other churches because proving an official coverup is much more difficult in a church without the well organized structure of the Catholic church.

But there have been plenty of youth ministers and such who have moved from church to church over the years, leaving behind a trail of abused children.

However, there does seem to be more male-male in the Catholic church and male-female in the Protestant churches in my opinion.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27122 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2274 times:



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 4):
Correct me if I'm wrong but since when is the death penalty the standard punishment for rape?  

For rape and murder I support the death penalty.


User currently offlineYellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2258 times:



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 9):
how does the bible suggest we deal with rape?

Deuteronomy 22:

Quote:
28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.




Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6613 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2243 times:
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Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 12):
Quote:
28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

this is female rape. so men are fair play?

what about rape of a non-virgin?



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2228 times:



Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
After todays shameful conclusion of the report into Priests abusing and raping children what should their fate be?

The same as anyone else convicted of rape. So now there is a separate legal standard for priests?

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 4):
Correct me if I'm wrong but since when is the death penalty the standard punishment for rape?

 checkmark 



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineCALTECH From Poland, joined May 2007, 2283 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2204 times:



Quote:
For rape and murder I support the death penalty.



Quote:
The same as anyone else convicted of rape. So now there is a separate legal standard for priests?

Gay catholic priests. Would this be a hate crime, since the gay priest is forcing himself on a boy who may not be gay ? Maybe these gay catholic priests should get the death penalty ?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1126/abusedetail.html

Quote:
"The report states the priest had a total aversion to all women and brought young boys for trips in his car and to nude bathing sessions in a swimming pool in his garden."

Wonder how many of these priests belong to NAMBLA ? Exploiting children, that is sick.



UNITED We Stand
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27122 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2198 times:



Quoting CALTECH (Reply 15):
Gay catholic priests. Would this be a hate crime, since the gay priest is forcing himself on a boy who may not be gay ? Maybe these gay catholic priests should get the death penalty ?

Gay , Straight , Polish whatever , if you do the crime then take the penalty. IMHO


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19953 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2182 times:



Quoting PSA53 (Reply 5):

Agreed,part 2.But if there's major problem in Catholicism,can it not be said the problem is widespread in many other religious practices?

Part of the issue is celibacy, I think. What heterosexual man would decide to forgo sex for life? I've always believed that it had to be a repository for people with sexual desires that were unacceptable. I'm sure that lots were gay men and that there's been plenty of schtupping among priests and monks. But some pedophiles also got in there, and they had access to kids.

By contrast, to be a minister in, say a Baptist Church, you almost have to be married. I don't think I've ever met a protestant minister who wasn't married, or at least engaged. That doesn't mean that pedophiles don't get into those positions, too, but I think it cuts down on it.

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 15):

Gay catholic priests. Would this be a hate crime, since the gay priest is forcing himself on a boy who may not be gay ? Maybe these gay catholic priests should get the death penalty ?

Wait. Stop. Whether you molest little boys or little girls, it is not an issue of gay or straight. Pedophiles are attracted to little kids. Gay men are attracted to men. Not little boys.


User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2987 posts, RR: 23
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2173 times:

It is interesting to read the suggestion that these criminals should receive the death penalty, and the response that these people have not committed murder.

No, they haven't taken anyone's life.

They took their victims' souls and their dignity. Their victims have their own life sentences; what punishment could ever be commensurate to such an act, made worse by the fact people have knowingly turned a blind eye for years?

Rgds.



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineSASD209 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Oct 2007, 642 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2140 times:



Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
After todays shameful conclusion of the report into Priests abusing and raping children what should their fate be?

Surely we should not change the laws to "punish" this lot? If so, where does it stop?


User currently offlineNWAdeicer From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 176 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2119 times:

I'll tell ya what. My wife is a Detective, her area of expertise is crimes against children. A couple of days ago she comes home from work in tears, she had to watch a video that a 26yr old man had made of him fucking a 6 yr old girl. And last month she had a case of a 9 yr old girl who's stepfather had been raping her for the last 3 years, and keeping her locked in a large dog crate. If the girl soiled her underwear she was forced to eat it. Oh, I forgot about the case about 6 months ago of the young boy who has to have a colostomy bag for the rest of his life due to not having any control over his sphincter muscle as the result of numerous rapes.

Sorry, don't buy the no death penalty for rapists.



I miss the Red Tail
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2111 times:



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 7):
How can you guarantee that? Are you speaking from personal experience?

Hell no. But it is well known rapists and specially pedophiles are the most hated out of all the inmates at a prison.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8639 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2103 times:

I agree with NWA, we can send them straight to their new home, burning in hell.

User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13140 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2077 times:

Death penalty, no, that isn't going to happen. If the public courts can convict, extremely long jail terms, including life terms as should be available for any other sex offender.

As to the far too many abuses by Roman Catholic Priests, perhaps what really needs to be done is to find some way in law to go after the Bishops and other Roman Catholic Church authorities as well as the organization itself. The nature of the RCC's organiztion, their power structure, conflicting Church Law, all makes it too easy for the Church to cover up the crimes and the Criminals.

Perhaps ending certain tax exemptions and other privileges, not allowed to officiate marriages for the state, not allowed to participate in any social programs or to operate games of chance or get temporary alcoholic beverage licenses for parties on church property and the like that require government agency licenses or approvals would be a way to let the RCC know they were wrong to the greater society.


User currently offlineFuturePilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2069 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 11):

For rape and murder I support the death penalty.

Come on man. You're being way too soft on them. For rape and murder I support pulling fingernails and then death penalty  bigthumbsup 



"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
25 Post contains links Kaitak : But that's the civil law of the state; the problem in Ireland wasn't that there was no law, but that those involved in enforcing the law chose not to
26 KiwiinOz : I'm starting to think, more and more that the old idea of penal colonies could work, particularly for the most serious of criminals I think, set up a
27 TheCol : These guys will get what they deserve in prison. Are you suggesting that church and state be one and the same?
28 BlueShamu330s : Some would say in the past they were, which has brought Ireland to where they are today with this terrible episode.
29 HAWK21M : The penalty should be high considering the position the person holds. regds MEL.
30 NA : This death penalty rubbish makes me sick. Especially when no one involved committed a murder. A long imprisonment (under very harsh conditions of caus
31 OA260 : Some of the stuff I was reading in the newspaper on the flight this morning was just very upsetting. Very true. Its a shame when people are so ignora
32 Mt99 : But that would make you a terrible Catholic..
33 Jalap : One remarkable point: I don't know about other countries but in Belgium this isn't getting major media attention. It sure is mentionned on TV news and
34 EISHN : Personally, I think we are horribly spineless in this country. The reports come out, they stay in the news and media for two weeks, we all go on about
35 Babybus : The death penalty is a bit final, isn't it? How many times have people been accused of these crimes only later to find they were innocent. I don't li
36 OA260 : Well it would have to be beyond reasonable doubt and also there is a period between being sentanced and actually being given the lethal injection. Al
37 Falcon84 : I don't believe in the Death penalty for most cases involving murder. I certainly don't believe in it for cases of rape.
38 Mayor : I can think of a couple of islands in the Aleutian chain off Alaska that would work for the U.S. I was stationed on one of them, Shemya, in the Air F
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