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UK Court Stops Extradition Of Sept 11th Suspect  
User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 15
Posted (12 years 5 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1189 times:

Lofti Raissi, the Algerian pilot suspected of training the September 11th pilots to fly has been acquitted by a UK court. The US was seeking his extradition.

Raissi had always maintained his innocence, and it seems that the court has believed his innocence. I only hope he can put his shattered life back together, as he had become a figure of hate amongst those who presumed his guilt.


I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13210 posts, RR: 77
Reply 1, posted (12 years 5 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1145 times:

It became clear a few months ago that there was no proof of his involvement in terrorist activity, the FBI said they had some but it apparently amounted to nothing.
There's a far bigger fish, with stacks of dossiers on him from various agencies, awaiting extradition from Belmarsh Prision to the US, for a long involvement in Al-Queda activities.


User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (12 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1139 times:
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The FBI needed to show people that they were getting the bad guys, and so they decided to arrest anyone they liked. This guy happens to be algerian, he's a pilot and he lives near an airport, LHR.

Arsenal@LHR



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 33
Reply 3, posted (12 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1124 times:

Even if the UK thought he was guilty they wouldn´t have extradited him. The European Convention on Human Rights of which the UK is a signatar forbids extradition when the death penalty might be used.

Daniel Smile


User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (12 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1120 times:

Trust me - the UK would have extradited him!


I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29800 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (12 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1087 times:

All that EU convention proves is that the EU has no intrest in upholding laws or providing justice.

He still has an arrest warent in this country, I am sure he will eventually slip up and travel to a country that will extradite him to meet his fate.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineOO-AOG From Switzerland, joined Dec 2000, 1426 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (12 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1084 times:

L188

All that EU convention proves is that the EU has no intrest in upholding laws or providing justice.

No proof --- > No extradition. As simple as that.
We call it democracy, and that's also called respect of the law here. You must understand that your rules are not ours, and that justice is something serious on our side of the pond.




Falcon....like a limo but with wings
User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (12 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1082 times:

Geez - whatever happened to 'innocent until proven guilty'? We can't just extradite someone because it seems like a good idea. The fact of the matter is that there was no evidence to support his extradition, so he was not extradited. It's as simple as that. We don't go around crying everytime the US executes a criminal, so don't start whingeing about the fact that we need proof before we destroy someone's life and extradite an innocent man.


What makes you think he is guilty anyway? What proof do you have?



I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29800 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (12 years 5 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1078 times:

Hell we had a fair trial for Ira Einhorn and it took us a couple of decades to get him out of France and into the jail-cell where he belonged.

They where usuing that backwards EU law as an excuse too.

This guy never even got a chance for a trial, they where still in a lousy extradition hearing.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 9, posted (12 years 5 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1069 times:

At the extradition hearing the FBI were asked for prima facie evidence that would facilitate an extradition. They didn't have any. How on earth do you expect an extradition hearing to proceed on that basis?

You're being a bit silly, L-188. If there is no evidence, and none was advanced, a person cannot be extradited. I really don't see how you can claim this to be an injustice.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (12 years 5 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1058 times:

Yup, this guy was more than likely not guilty of anything, as proven by the Courts decision. You cant just go about putting anyone on Death Row if your not guilty. We would happily have iven him to you if there was evidence! There was none so he was rightly freed.
Just my opinion,  Big grin



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1053 times:

Not just your opinion GKirk, it was also the opinion of the court.



VH-ADG


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29800 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (12 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1047 times:

That still means that the court was wrong.

The man should have faced trial for his crimes.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (12 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1042 times:

Sigh.....

What 'crimes'? The court found that he had no crimes to answer for. End of story. Or does everybody facing trial in the US get automatically convicted?



I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 14, posted (12 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1039 times:

Oh, for God's sake!

WHAT crimes? Let me say this slowly and loudly so you can understand:

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE that he committed any crime. Understand? NO evidence.

Do you advocate a system of justice whereby people should be put on trial regardless of the evidence?

How about: I say here and now that you L-188 are a member of the IRA who has committed bombings on mainland Britain. I therefore want you extradited. What do you think the outcome would be? The US court would quite rightly tell me to get lost, because there is no basis for the charge. That is what happened here, because the FBI had no evidence. And when I say no evidence, I don't mean "only a little" evidence, I mean, NONE. They did not present anything to the court.

How the hell does that give the basis for an extradition?



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29800 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (12 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1037 times:

This guy never faced trial!!! That is the bloody point.

It was a lousy extradition hearing.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineBCal DC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 722 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (12 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1032 times:

How can he face a trial when there is no evidence against him?

User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 17, posted (12 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1031 times:

Then let me put it another way: If a person goes to a committal hearing in the US, and is not found to have any case to answer, does that still go to trial? Of course not. Extradition hearings are similar. It is the role of the court to see if there is a case to answer, and there wasn't. Why? Because the FBI didn't put any evidence forward.


She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (12 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1027 times:

Hello? HEEELLLLOOOO TTTTHHHEEEERRREE? AANNNYYBBOODDYY HHHHOOOOMMME?

Yes he did face a trial - an extradition hearing which is determined to establish whether he should face a trial proper. When those wanting him to face a trial (the FBI) were asked to present their evidence, the answer was along the lines of 'We don't have any evidence'.

So you are telling me he should still be extradited on that basis? On the basis of NO EVIDENCE BEING OFFERED AT ALL. I thought the US prides itself on being a bastion of justice. That doesn't sound very just to me.....



I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29800 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (12 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1019 times:

No, what offends me is that he lied on his pilot paperwork and then claimed that it wasn't wrong under the laws of a different country.

That is just bull.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (12 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1011 times:
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NO EVIDENCE = NO CRIME = NO TERRORIST = NO EXTRADITION!!!!!!!!

Arsenal@LHR



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (12 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1003 times:

The Americans lost a heck of a lot of credibility on this one. After first saying that they had "firm, cast-iron evidence" that Raissi was responsible for the training of the terrorists, nothing was ever produced and instead of
simply saying "sorry, we got it wrong" they continued to try to press for his extradition with no evidence of any wrongdoing over anything at all.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/04/25/nlotf25.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/04/25/ixnewstop.html


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29800 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (12 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 997 times:

How can he not be extradited for falsifying his paperwork? The feds have the damm originals.


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (12 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 992 times:

Failing to disclose details of knee surgery (because his original application stated this surgery so why does he need to state it again) hardly makes him a terrorist.....


I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29800 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (12 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 991 times:

That's B******* Eal401. I would put what else I feel about that post but I would probably get banned.

I expect an appology from you for that wiseass comment. It was highly inappropriate

This guy broke US law, The US has his PPL paperwork with the false info he put on it. A UK judge said that UK law says he didn't have to fill it out the same way that US law said it did.

He wasn't facing a UK violation, he was facing a US one but the decision was made by a loophole in UK law.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
25 L-188 : Actually it was the 1993 conviction for theft that he had that caused the stir.
26 Arsenal@LHR : It was a US violation. But he was tried in the UK by a UK judge. UK law didn't find him guilty. End of story. Deal with it dude.
27 Eal401 : OK, L-188 I probably picked on you for convenience there, sorry. But I do wonder how different things would have been if this guy had NOT been Muslim.
28 L-188 : But he wasn't being extradited because he broke UK law, The US was seeking extradition because he broke US law......
29 Post contains images GKirk : This topic is starting to become hilarios and boring at the same time
30 Saintsman : If I got a speeding fine whist on holiday in the States would you expect me to be extradited if I didn't pay it?
31 L-188 : It takes work for that Gkirk.... EAL. Thanks. I will grant you that this guy may have mis-understood the way the forms where figured out, just like we
32 L-188 : Theft would be a phelony(spl?) Just a hunch but I think you are safe Saintsman.
33 Post contains images GKirk : So he's a terrorist cos he stole something and didnt put it down on his PPL? Many people do that I think? So he' just a lying thief
34 Eal401 : What would the US be charging him for, supposing they did get hold of him, the false documents or terrorist links? Because I can understand the former
35 L-188 : Thanks...It is six am here. Just couldn't remember.:D The charge that he was facing was falsifying his pilot license paperwork. Which was widely repor
36 Banco : Blimey, this has moved on! "BTW at least one of those fellow students was one of the hijackers". This is where you need to be careful. You could equal
37 Ryanb741 : Sure, so the FBI will continue its investigations if necessary. If and when they do come up with evidence linking him to the hijackings, they can retr
38 Post contains images Aviatsiya.ru : L-188 This would have to be the first instance of a person being told that the death penalty would be asked for, for simply lying on a medical form Du
39 Banco : Aviatsia.ru - it has nothing to do with the death penalty. It never got that far. I'm sure the defence might have argued that had the court decided th
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