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EU Plan To Recognize Two Jerusalems?  
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8021 posts, RR: 26
Posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2321 times:

Things are accelerating amid rumors that there are preparations afoot in several diplomatic arenas for recognition of an official Palestinian state. The Israeli government is, unsurprisingly, not enthused by a draft EU proposal to officially recognize East Jerusalem as a capital for a possible (improbable?) Palestinian state.

EU foreign ministers are expected to issue an official call next week for Jerusalem to be divided, in order to serve as the capitals of both Israel and a Palestinian state.

...

"The process being led by Sweden harms the European Union's ability to take part as a significant mediator in the political process between Israel and the Palestinians," said a statement by Israel's Foreign Ministry.


There's a bit of spite in Israel's statements to Sweden since they've been trading barbs in the media the last few months over various unflattering criticisms from Stockholm regarding Gaza and other things that are, on balance, rather one-sided.

At the same time it's necessary and proper for foreign governments to be questioning Netanyahu's commitment to a two-state solution when the settlement freeze is ongoing at a glacial pace since that disrupts the peace process at least as much as any EU proposal!

Britain and France support the Swedish position, while Germany, Spain and Italy are disinclined to side with Israel on the matter

This is having the knock-on effect of stirring the usual passions in the Knesset, as now Livni and other opposition party members are expressing growing dissatisfaction with the acceleration in loss of foreign support for Israel in recent months. Should get interesting as they try to play the blame game that will run to the next election while stuff is hitting the fan on all fronts.

What's bothersome about this, for all the paces it is putting Israel's foreign ministry through, is that it's a waste of time. This exercise seems purely political as a way for the EU to balance its diplomatic strength with that of the US and UN. There is not an official Palestinian state as of yet, there is hardly any unity to speak of within the PA, and despite the rumors going around, we're still a long way from seeing a real functioning Palestinian government established. Until those things change, it's pointless to go on scoring political points by making these draft resolutions that mean absolutely nothing other than pissing off the Likud.

The Israeli government will look foolish for the tantrums it will throw over this, and the EU already looks foolish for even scheduling meetings and drafting this nonsense in the first place. Really making progress folks.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1131926.html


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7136 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2312 times:

I applaud the EU for (hopefully) stepping up and making a courageous decision, someone has to, it's pretty clear the US hasn't got the balls to do it. Personally I would rather see EU soldiers forcibly removing the Israeli's from Palestinian territory than pissing about in Afghanistan.

User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13517 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2292 times:
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Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 1):
I would rather see EU soldiers forcibly removing the Israeli's from Palestinian territory

I have to ask - how do you suppose you'd see the Israeli Army permit EU soldiers to do this?



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7136 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2281 times:

Israel (I would hope) would not be stupid enough to get in to a shooting war with the EU. Failing that I believe sanctions like those imposed on South Africa should be placed on Israel, it's now time for the rest of the world to stop pissing around with these people and sort this problem out.

User currently offlineSbworcs From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 836 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 23 hours ago) and read 2236 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
"The process being led by Sweden harms the European Union's ability to take part as a significant mediator in the political process between Israel and the Palestinians," said a statement by Israel's Foreign Ministry.

So then Israel being Israel and stating that unless it is our point of view then it is damaging.

Althought he Palestinian side is just a bad!



The best way forwards is upwards!
User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1651 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 22 hours ago) and read 2220 times:

Interesting to see some fresh blood taking in the entire process-Obama's intentions-while in the right place-had little effect. Israel has not stopped a freeze, and ideally, a sovereign Palestinian state would rule the West Bank-unlikely, with all those new homes being built.
Perhaps the EU could use political leverage and somehow achieve what the USA could not do?
Regarding the division of JRS-that can wait. Both parties have a habit of making concessions, then asking for the moon, then going back to square one.


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8021 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 19 hours ago) and read 2190 times:



Quoting Directorguy (Reply 5):
Israel has not stopped a freeze, and ideally, a sovereign Palestinian state would rule the West Bank-unlikely, with all those new homes being built.

Fully agree but the component that remains unlikely is a state in the first place - they are simply not ready to do it politically. And even if a state were created tomorrow, do you really think those rabid settlers are going to leave voluntarily? They are fighting with the IDF as we speak (not that they're trying very hard to enforce the freeze).

Quoting Directorguy (Reply 5):
Perhaps the EU could use political leverage and somehow achieve what the USA could not do?

I still say they are just looking to score points and appear more relevant. We'll see if this silly resolution yields any effect other than promoting more infighting in the Knesset.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 1):
Personally I would rather see EU soldiers forcibly removing the Israeli's from Palestinian territory than pissing about in Afghanistan.

Hilariously implausible.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 17 hours ago) and read 2176 times:



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 3):
I believe sanctions like those imposed on South Africa should be placed on Israel, it's now time for the rest of the world to stop pissing around with these people and sort this problem out.

Agree entirely, KiwiRob. Israel (that is, to all intents and purposes, the 'militant wing' of the Jewish religion) has no right whatever to exclusive possession even of most of Palestine, leave alone Jerusalem. In 1947 the United Nations approved only the setting up of federated Arab and Jewish states, with Jerusalem being an open city under international control.

As to any 'religious claim,' the whole nonsense of a 'Jewish state' is in any case based on nothing but a few fragments of anonymous, much-translated, much-'interpreted' (and in any case highly improbable) folklore in the Old Testament.

Hoping against hope that the EU does 'carry through' on this and impose sanctions. And that Obama loses patience too, and stops both the money and the weapons.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2038 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2107 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 6):
Hilariously implausible.

 checkmark 

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 1):

So what about Hamas and the militias that want to destroy Israel? Do you think they're gonna disappear?



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9164 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2093 times:



Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 2):

I have to ask - how do you suppose you'd see the Israeli Army permit EU soldiers to do this?



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 6):
uoting KiwiRob (Reply 1):
Personally I would rather see EU soldiers forcibly removing the Israeli's from Palestinian territory than pissing about in Afghanistan.

Hilariously implausible.

The EU does not have soldiers.

Even if the EU had an armed force, would anybody seriously think that the EU takes military action against a sovereign democratic state?



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2073 times:

Quoting TheCol (Reply 8):
So what about Hamas and the militias that want to destroy Israel? Do you think they're gonna disappear?

One has to have to try to see things from the other guy's point of view, TheCol. The best way of doing that is to put yourself in their place.

Had I been born in Palestine, I would have been eight years old when my family was driven out of our home. We'd probably have lived ever since then as refugees in Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria.

If I'd got married and raised a family, as I did, my kids would have had no chance of securing a proper education or being able to embark on the careers they now have. Nor would I ever have been able to give them the sort of home that I was fortunate enough to be able to provide.

OR we might still be in 'Palestine' - living in a poverty-stricken township in the West Bank, unable even to visit a neighbouring town without going through Israeli Army checkpoints. Or, worse still, living in what amounts to a concentration camp, the Gaza Strip - totally cut off from the outside world, so that even if they'd been bright enough to earn a scholarship to Cambridge or Harvard (as some Gazan kids do), they'd never have been allowed to travel outside Gaza to take it up. And would therefore have to stay there and rot until the NEXT time the Israeli Army and Air Force come visiting with (US-supplied) HE and white phosphorus.

What's more, I'd never have been able to explain to them WHY all those ills had befallen them. WHY one of the first acts of the newly-formed United Nations was to give some hundreds of thousands of European refugees (created by the misdeeds of the Germans, the Italians, the Vichy French, and others) rights of residence in OUR country - an occupation which was then encouraged and expanded by no less than the then President of the United States, purely because he had an election to win. And that as a result, ever since, the family has never been able to return to its homeland - even as tourists........

And, even if I'd come to love and revere the United States, as I do, I'd never have been able to explain to them how one could possibly square what had happened to us (which continues blindly to be supported by the USA) with lofty statements of principle like:-

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Your turn now. If you met a kid from the Gaza Strip or the West Bank - like that girl who was arrested at dead of night in the West Bank a couple of months ago, driven to Gaza in an Army truck, and told that she couldn't ever come back to the West Bank to take her university finals because her identity card said she was from Gaza - how would YOU explain their ever-mounting misfortunes to them?

[Edited 2009-12-03 03:38:49]


"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineGatorfan From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 331 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1989 times:

The plan is surprisingly similar to one laid out by Tom Clancy in one of his novels.

User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1651 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1916 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 6):
Fully agree but the component that remains unlikely is a state in the first place - they are simply not ready to do it politically. And even if a state were created tomorrow, do you really think those rabid settlers are going to leave voluntarily? They are fighting with the IDF as we speak (not that they're trying very hard to enforce the freeze).

Yup. There were a few thousand Israeli settlers in the Sinai-mostly in Yamit-and there was strong opposition to making them leave. Can you imagine the gumption, and sheer scale, of dragging out hundreds of thousands of Israelis out of the WB? Even if they all somehow left, it would cost billions to re-accomodate them elsewhere.


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1877 times:



Quoting Directorguy (Reply 12):
Yup. There were a few thousand Israeli settlers in the Sinai-mostly in Yamit-and there was strong opposition to making them leave. Can you imagine the gumption, and sheer scale, of dragging out hundreds of thousands of Israelis out of the WB? Even if they all somehow left, it would cost billions to re-accomodate them elsewhere.

I guess it's also got to do with out of control immigration to Israel. AFAIK most Jews apparently have the right to adopt the Israeli citizenship under the Law of Return. They can even get it when first entering Israel as far as I understood this correctly. This could be one of the factors for this immigration going out of control.


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1863 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 13):
AFAIK most Jews apparently have the right to adopt the Israeli citizenship under the Law of Return.

Yes - immediate entry and citizenship, LTU932. As I understand it, they don't even have to be devout, or even practising; they count as 'Jewish' if they have a Jewish mother or maternal grandmother:-

"The law gives the right of return to those born Jews (having a Jewish mother or maternal grandmother), those with Jewish ancestry (having a Jewish father or grandfather) and converts to Judaism (Orthodox, Reform, or Conservative denominations—not secular—though Reform and Conservative conversions must take place outside the state, similar to civil marriages)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return

It's ironic that Hitler's gang used exactly the same definition to 'populate' the concentration camps.......  

On the other hand, though, a Palestinian who marries an Israeli citizen cannot get entry under any circumstances. The Israeli husband/wife has to give up their Israeli citizenship and move out. I don't know of any other country in the world that has an immigration (or, rather, NON-immigration) policy like that.

There used to be a catch, though. Don't know if it still applies. Some Jewish friends of mine went to Israel in the 60s, but saw it as a 'trial run'; they thought they'd live there for a year or two to see what it was like, and so they kept their house in the UK and just rented it out.

They were back inside 18 months - the Israeli goverrnment told them that they would not be granted entry to "Israel proper' until they sold their house and 'invested' the proceeds in Israeli property. So they spent all their time there behind barbed wire in a guarded 'settlement' in the Gaza Strip, with their kids being 'bussed' to school every day in an Army truck with an armed escort.

That sort of thing is why the 'settlements' issue will likely never be resolved (until Obama or some later president really starts 'leaning on' the Israeli Government, and also gets the moneybags out). From 1948 on, Israel followed a policy of nationalising all 'seized' (i.e. stolen) land. They didn't then 'give' it to Israelis; nor did they sell it freehold. They sold only leasehold interests in existing properties and building leases for development land.

Significantly, the same process occurred when further stolen land in areas like the Shebaa Farms and the Golan Heights was disposed of for development; and of course in Jerusalem.

So I see no practical possibility that the Israeli government will ever willingly give any of the stolen land back. It would face absolutely colossal compensation bills from the half-million or so people living in the 'official' settlements; and, given that giving the land back would amount to an admission that the land was wrongfully taken from its original Palestinian, Lebanese, and Syrian owners in the first place, one doubts that even the Israeli courts could deny compensation claims for 'unlawful dispossession' from them as well.

Talk about a 'comedy of errors;' although 'tragi-comedy' would probably be a better word.

[Edited 2009-12-03 21:43:18]


"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24911 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1819 times:



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 3):
Israel (I would hope) would not be stupid enough to get in to a shooting war with the EU. Failing that I believe sanctions like those imposed on South Africa should be placed on Israel, it's now time for the rest of the world to stop pissing around with these people and sort this problem out.

The only way you'll ever see peace in that area of the world is by doing this:



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6075 posts, RR: 29
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1799 times:
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Quoting Gkirk (Reply 15):
The only way you'll ever see peace in that area of the world is by doing this

I would agree.

If the EU recognizes two Jerusalems you have handed the Jihadists a victory. They will be empowered by this and continue to demand more until Isreal is no more. When Isreal is gone they will take the UK and France, not by fighting but by numbers and with those numbers the votes that come with it. One day the "tollerant" people of the EU will wake up to find they live in an Islamic Republic and all the freedoms and rights they have will be gone.

You don't get peace by giving the enemy land. Remember WWII? Give Hitler land to preserve the peace..... Didn't work then and it won't work now.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 9):
would anybody seriously think that the EU takes military action against a sovereign democratic state?

One day that may happen, if radical Islam is allowed to grow unchecked in the EU.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1781 times:



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 16):
Quoting Gkirk (Reply 15):
The only way you'll ever see peace in that area of the world is by doing this

I would agree.

Are you guys actually proposing a nuclear war in the Middle East?  Smile

Falstaff - in particular, can you name any major wars that Muslims have started over the last couple of hundred years? Ready to be contradicted, but my own impression is that virtually all wars during the period (and certainly all the biggest and bloodiest ones) have been started by Christians?



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7136 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1778 times:



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 16):
If the EU recognizes two Jerusalems you have handed the Jihadists a victory. They will be empowered by this and continue to demand more until Isreal is no more. When Isreal is gone they will take the UK and France, not by fighting but by numbers and with those numbers the votes that come with it.

Pull the other one it's got bells on it.

Isn't the Israeli Palestinian population increasing at a faster rate than the Jewish population? If that is true then won't the Palestinian citizens eventually be able to take over the country i n a legal election, although I would guess that if it ever got to that point I'm sure the Jews would find a way to disenfranchise the Palestinians.


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2038 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1760 times:



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):

None of that was answer to my question.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
Had I been born in Palestine,

How much time have you actually spent in the occupied territories?

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
how would YOU explain their ever-mounting misfortunes to them?

I have, and will continue to explain to them that the only thing standing in their way of full autonomy is Hamas and Co. Some agree, some don't.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6075 posts, RR: 29
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1753 times:
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Quoting NAV20 (Reply 17):
have been started by Christians?

WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Korea, Rhodesia, The Spanish Civil War, the Chinese Civil War, Russo-Japanese war, Russian Revolution, and a bunch more wars in the 20th Century had little or nothing to do with religion. They may have been started by Christians, but that didn't mean they were about religion. Violence from Islamic radicals is based on religion.

Radical Islam can not start a traditional war, the followers don't usually represent a country or its interests. They represent ideas and a way of life.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 17):
Are you guys actually proposing a nuclear war in the Middle East

No, but the only way to have peace in the middle east would be if it was empty. I never will expect peace in the middle east or in Africa in my lifetime.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1728 times:



Quoting TheCol (Reply 19):
I have, and will continue to explain to them that the only thing standing in their way of full autonomy is Hamas and Co.

So they just get rid of Hamas and Hey Presto! - the Israelis rebuild all the Palestinian homes they bulldozed in 1948 - all those millions of refugees are allowed to come home from Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria - the Palestinians get an independent state wiith free access to the outside world, including their own airports and seaports.........

What are you smoking, mate?  Smile



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineLY772 From Israel, joined Aug 2001, 1340 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1702 times:

I don't like the name of this topic. Can't you change it to "Hitler Loving Anti-Semetic Nazis Talk About What They Would Like Instead of Israel"?

User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1691 times:

LY772, whatever problems you might have look like getting a great deal worse until you remove your spectacles. Israel has tended to do well through realpolitik. WADR not much real or politic in yr post.

[Edited 2009-12-05 06:05:10]

User currently offlineLY772 From Israel, joined Aug 2001, 1340 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1691 times:

I never realized how many HItler followers existed in Australia and NZ...shame.

25 Aaron747 : Pay no attention to the rabid Zionist peanut gallery seeing through "all criticism of Israel = Holocaust celebrating anti-Semetic Nazi circle-jerk" t
26 KC135TopBoom : Typical European solution these days, strattle the fence, putting one foot on both sides. This will do nothing but embolden the Palistinian stated go
27 Baroque : True, to which can be added "intemperate". But even that would still be a low key response. Wonder what a response would look like at the same level.
28 Post contains images NAV20 : I don't pay undue attention to it, Aaron747 - but it does tend to give me the odd 'senior moment' lately.   LY772, just about my earliest memory is
29 Post contains images Falstaff : What I think is you have a lot of people who hate organized Christianity and since Jews and and Christians believe many of the same things they just
30 Aaron747 : All true - but what exactly does it have to do with this thread? Yes PC sucks, but pragmatically it's hard to equivocate when talking about a billion
31 N867DA : So your solution is to write a lengthy post that pretty much expresses mild hatred toward Islam? All religions, when followed verbatim, are disgustin
32 Falstaff : I couldn't agree more. I also get mad at fellow Christians that forget the Church is a place for sinners not a hotel for saints and hate the sin love
33 Aaron747 : For the record, Israel is only a semi-religious state. The court system is comprised of both secular and religious branches and the operating guideli
34 Falstaff : Don't forget Chechnya
35 Post contains links Baroque : You will provide some references I suppose. If referring to Aceh, it is a province not an island. And the process is far from being undisputed. http:
36 Afterburner : Either you or the National Geographic who has made a mistake. This law is only applied to only one province, out of 33. And I believe vast majority o
37 KC135TopBoom : How in the world do you get hatred out of stated facts? Do you include Islam, too, or is it just Christianity and Jeudism? what about the Hindus and
38 N867DA : I believe the word 'all' has a very precise definition in the English language. Look it up. Again, simple fact. No one really follows any religion to
39 KC135TopBoom : Yes, "ALL" does have a precise definition. But you did not use the word "ALL" in your post in reply #13, which is what I quoted you from. Congradualt
40 N867DA : I'm pretty sure I said all in reply 31. Oh, absolutely. Believe it or not, I believe in a God--it's just the religion part that I dislike. If people
41 Baroque : Can I referee just for the record since experience shows that even the bleeding obvious will never be admitted!! Hope a Biddist does not get me on my
42 Post contains images NAV20 : KC135, religions have been causing wars for thousands of years - and there's scarcely a war in history in which it has not played a significant part.
43 KC135TopBoom : Yes, that is true, and it includes the current GWOT, which was started by extremists Muslums. Christians did not start this war.
44 NAV20 : KC135, taking 'GWOT' to mean 'Great War On Terror,' in my opinion that is not a war at all. Back in the '50s and '60s the British had to get involved
45 Baroque : And just because they are paranoid, it does not mean we are not out to get them!
46 Yellowstone : Sorry to dredge up an old post, but did you bother to count the number of people in that photo? The posters they're holding obscure the view a bit, b
47 TheCol : If the Palestinians want to re-build, they will have to do it themselves. It's the only way they'll learn how to function as a nation. All anybody el
48 Post contains links L410Turbolet : Apparently this silly idea is a "no go" after all... However an earlier proposal by the Swedish EU presidency, to explicitly support the idea of east
49 Lxa333 : Thats the natural thing to say, for example thats like someone of African-american heritage in the US using slavery as a reason of why they deserve m
50 NAV20 : I would have preferred it if the illegal state of Israel had never been set up, TheCol. I view the place as just another discriminatory religious sta
51 LTU932 : On paper, yes. However, the common misconception is that if you're against Israel, you're an anti-semite. And I do know someone at work who, despite
52 Aaron747 : ...is indeed a religion of peace. Music to my ears. Glad they came to their senses and dropped the political lowballing act for once. Obviously the g
53 FRAspotter : Cough cough BERLIN cough cough...
54 ME AVN FAN : European countries (not just EU) and most other countries in the world have NEVER accepted the annexation of East Jerusalem by Israel, and generally
55 KC135TopBoom : No, it means "Global War On Terrorism". It began with a military style attack that killed some 3,000 people from soe 60 nations of the world, not jus
56 Falstaff : It doesn't matter. Lets say there was just 30, how many people would support them? How many would be there if they didn't have to be at work? How man
57 Post contains links and images NAV20 : It has everything to do with it, KC135, because all the conflicts I referred to involved terrorist attacks on civilian populations, just as 9/11 did.
58 Yellowstone : Hundreds of thousands of people showed up to protest the Iraq and Vietnam Wars, with essentially no effect on government policy. And I'm supposed to
59 NAV20 : They could always revert to the arrangements laid down in UN Resolution 181 in 1948. That (UN administration) still looks like the only practical way
60 Baroque : The correct answer Yellowstone is TWO. I know this for a fact as I have seen the uncropped photograph. The pic can be viewed at climatechangeME.org a
61 Post contains links NAV20 : Some depressing conclusions to be drawn from this article by John Lyons of "The Australian":- 1. Religion seems to be the driving force for many, if n
62 Baroque : Hope not because when you quote: that reads like something out of a Jihadi phrase book. Is there no way to get the I (Z) extremists and cram them in
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